China Forces Websites To Register

Rodrigo Strauss writes "The Inquirer has the story that individual owners of websites and blogs must register with the government or face a shut-down. Apparently they will begin monitoring of all sites, both commercial and personal, beginning this month. Site owners have until the end of the month to register. The BBC has the story as well." From the BBC article: "'The internet has profited many people but it also has brought many problems, such as sex, violence and feudal superstitions and other harmful information that has seriously poisoned people's spirits,' said a statement on the MII website, explaining why the new rules were necessary."

Comments

From inside the great firewall

[SeanTobin]

everyone knows that this is really for the good of the PeopLE. the internet hAs poiSonEd our country as a wHolE and we must not alLow it to subvert our years of history, and tradition or Pollute our culture. i aM glad that our nation is taking a stand to assurE we stay united through this and any other time or crisis.

Re:From inside the great firewall

[databyss]

what is really Striking here is hOw foRward thinking and pRogressive the government is there. whY, don't other countRies follow sUit behiNd the great and powerFul cOuntRy of chIna?
i am always amazed aT that.

Re:From inside the great firewall

[B2K3]

when I think about the sheer nuMber of Those web sites that will be RAndomly shut down by the chinese government, i'm aPPalled. i mEan, Don't the chINese hAve their First amendment rights like everyOne in ameRica? TrUe, chiNa is not in amEriCa, but i wOuld think all cOuntries Keep IndepenEnt thought as right of all citizens. the FAr east, western europe, the all Can learn from american ways of Thinking, OpeRating, and partYing.

The Chinese Internet

[14erCleaner]

I wonder how long it will be until China just disconnects itself from the global Internet?

Re:The Chinese Internet

[Threni]

Don't laugh - you'll be getting this in the US soon enough...

Re:The Chinese Internet

[brickballs]

yup.

I forget where I heard this argument, but its actualy rather interesting:

By some people (legaly) carying concealed firearms they are actualy helping others who choose not to cary weapons. This is because a criminal is now less likely to atack because there is a chance that their chosen target is armed, even if the target is in fact unarmed.

When it is illegal to own a gun, the chance of the target being armed greatly drops and the atacker becomes more bold.

Re:The Chinese Internet

[amliebsch]

I dont myself own a guy (yet) but I'm damn glad its an option.

Sorry, you might be disappointed.

13th. Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Re:The Chinese Internet

[tilleyrw]

Excuse me, but where did you place your brain?

Go retrieve it, because it's lonely.

Google the search phrase "crime rate gun law". The top two countries are England (U.K.) and Australia.

Smacking idiots with the clue stick...

Re:The Chinese Internet

[mrmojo]

I can't believe this made it to +4 interesting. Do you have any evidence for your preposterous claim? Everything I have heard has indicated that violent crime is at an all time low in Australia.

It's only semi automatic / automatic guns that are illegal, so you're wrong (or at least misleading) on two counts.

If only I had mod points right now I could label this the flamebait/troll it deserves.

What's even worse is that the one guy who called you on this lie has been relegated to -1 troll!

Proving the Red Block still exists

[izznop]

Remember everyone, despite seeming very capitalist lately, China is communist. This wouldn't be even an article if it happened in Cuba.

Re:Proving the Red Block still exists

[Jack Taylor]

I think you'll find that true communism in the spirit of Marx doesn't have anything to do with censorship.

Re:Proving the Red Block still exists

[tverbeek]

Yet another example of someone not understanding the difference between communism (an economic system) and totalitarianism (a political system). They may sometimes go hand in hand, but you can easily have totalitarianism (of which this is an example) without communism. Why, I've even seen it growing in market-based economies.

Re:Proving the Red Block still exists

[GreyPoopon]

I think you'll find that true communism in the spirit of Marx doesn't have anything to do with censorship.

You are correct. The censorship is an afterthought that was developed to keep "communism" going when it was discovered that almost nobody would willingly stay committed to it. It goes hand-in-hand with the small elite class continuing to run the government (which is also not part of true communism).

Re:Proving the Red Block still exists

[rossifer]

Well, Marx actually railed against Mercantilism or Syndicalism (where the merchants are/own the government and use that power to maintain their position/income/power). He thought that "true capitalism" was a pipe dream and pure propaganda to keep people from complaining about the influence of business in government (he remains completely correct to this day). As an aside, Marx would have been appalled by all of the varieties of Communism and Socialism that have appeared and claimed foundations in his writing.

China has a largely capitalist economy with significant private ownership of capital but has an authoritarian system of government. The censorship, repression, imprisonment, and torture of citizens for expressing sentiments contrary to the official position has very little to do with the private or public ownership of capital and everything to do with the authoritarian aspects of their government.

I'll refrain from pointing out trends in the US government towards a more authoritarian model. The reality of that transistion is that the US merchants who exert so much control over our government would only allow such a thing to happen if 1) they believed it would improve their profits and 2) they could retain control of the new system.

Regards,
Ross

Re:Proving the Red Block still exists

[GOD_ALMIGHTY]

I think you'll find that true communism in the spirit of Marx doesn't have anything to do with censorship.

Marx's Communism has everything to do with imposing it's moral view on people. It naively believes in some ultimately authoritative truth that would be revealed to people if the circumstances were correct. That's why all Communist States have legal systems that are structured around the State as a parent, a teacher of morals. It's to fashion the perfect people in order to bring about the "True Communist Revolution", and if it doesn't work out, then the people weren't real Communists. Fascism does the same thing using economics, remember Hitler cursed the Germans, saying they weren't worthy of survival if those mongrel Russians beat them.

Censorship is just a tool of this parenting force, be it through legal or economic means. Marx would have used it in order to bring about the Communist Revolution. It's just that he was in a position of power where censorship was more harmful than good, in other words, he wasn't the censor.

Re:Proving the Red Block still exists

[RexRhino]

You can have Totalitarianism without Communism, that is true. But you cannot have Communism without totalitarianism. Communism is a subset of the larger group of totalitarian ideologies. Communism is, by its own definitition, a "Dictatorship of the Proletariat".

We have market economies becoming more and more totalitarian, that is true. But in all those cases, as they become more and more totalitarian, the government has greater control over the economy, and they become less and less free market. For example, George W. Bush, who brought us the Patriot Act, the War of Terror and such, also is responsible for the largest single increase in social spending in the Western world, has pledged more aid for HIV in Africa than all other nations combined, has signed broad new laws regulating the stock market and banking (which in terms of sheer volume, go far beyond anything in the Western world right now), he put tarrifs on European Steel and Chinese Textiles despite claiming to be for free trade. By any concrete form of measure (i.e. comparing changing social spending as a percentage of GDP, comparing the number of words in a law governing an industry, as opposed to arguing "Socialism is togetherness of mankind" or other subjective nonsense), George W. Bush is the most extreme Socialist in power in the Western world. He may claim to be "free-market", but in terms of actually implementing government policy, he is less free-market than many Euro-crats who outright claim to be Socialists.

So using someone like G. W. Bush as a model of a free-market dictator is incorrect. G.W.Bush is about as free-market as Fidel Castro. You could argue that Fidel Castro is actually more free market, as Castro has been liberalizing parts of his economy, where G.W.Bush has consistantly done the opposite.

Sex?

[Anonymous Coward]

And since when this is a problem? How did they reach 1.3 billion?

Does this include China-based spammer sites?

[Animats]

Will this include major China-based spammer services like Black Box Hosting? "Our offshore bullet proof web hosting plans allow bulk email hosting, spam friendly web hosting and bulletproof host."

China has tightened up in the past few weeks

[winkydink]

My colleagues and I have found it much more difficult to download email from the US while in the PRC in the past month.

superstitious

[null etc.]

The internet has profited many people but it also has brought many problems, such as sex, violence and feudal superstitions

I like how feudal superstitions rank amongst the top threats to a Communist government.

"In order for our government to work, you're not allowed to think like that, nor be presented with such ideas."

Such a government seems like it would have to rely upon barriers that prevent intercommunication of popular ideas amongst its citizens, especially with such a large population. Wouldn't it be interesting if 1984 became true in China?

I chide the story submitter for not ending his submission with a question. Allow me to suggest on:

"Could the Internet be the end of China as we know it?"

Re:superstitious

[mikers]

China _is_ 1984.

1984 was Orwell's take on what Stalinism would look like in, well, the west.

Last I checked, China is run by a Communist party (who has outlawed any opposition parties) and behaves much like (not exactly like) ex-Soviet communist states: secret police, limiting movement of citizens, tight control of media, deliberate misinformation to control citizens, imprisonment of large numbers of political prisoners, carefully limiting foreign visitors and tracking their movements in the country.

Freedom is somewhat opposed to the aforementioned list. See any of those things going on in the US? Not sure what freedom is?

If you need proof of tight control of media, look at your own quote.

Patriot Act?

[WindBourne]

I wonder how soon before congress will require US citizens to do the same via the use of patriot act or some other bill wrapped in the flag?

20 years later ...

[Anonymous Coward]

USA will be doing the same thing and we will have people give long lectures on how this is justified.

"Show me your papers, Yuri!"

Not unlike the rest of the world..?

[xiando]

Most of the worlds people who want to run a website are required to host it somewhere, and the hosting provider usually requires a billing address.. So the rest of the world are also not free to publish what they want anonymously, at least not truly anonymously, unless they are using Freenet or some other clever way to hide their identity. Registering with a provider is obviously better than registering with a government, but it is still registering... This being said, I do not quite understand what the China government thinks they are accomplishing here. It is the Internet, what prevents a citizen of China to host a anti-China website anywhere else in the world? I am sure at least some of the non-China hosting providers in the world are unwilling to provide any foreign government with customer information when asked...

Re:chinese government is fascist

[WindBourne]

And yes, when the USA government does something similar (and it will be coming soon), it is patriotic.

Re:And I think you'll find...

[Lehk228]

yes it does, in small voluntary communes, that is the only way it will work is in a setting small enough that eery contribution is felt by all.

Not that big of a deal

[nurb432]

You cant practically run a 'normal' site anonymously anyway:

- You register and get a Domain name..

- You use your ISP's service..

- "free hosting", still can track your IP..

Guess its time for them to start using FreeNet. This is exactally the type of reason it was created.

Re:chinese government is fascist

[0kComputer]

What will be coming soon? Do you have any supporting information, or is this just your paranoid opinion?

Middle east

[3770]

Why don't we hear more about these things happening in the middle east?

Some of the goverments there have even more to lose by their citizens seeing information from the outside world.

Maybe it is because the general public in those countries not normally having Internet yet?

Re:Middle east

[greenrd]

They aren't really censoring the Internet out there, they're letting it go.

Bullshit.

Tell that to the Iranian bloggers who have been arrested merely for publishing their political views.

That's the textbook definition of censorship.

And Iran actually purports to be a democracy. Countries like Saudi Arabia don't even pretend to have democratic scruples.

Very true.

[jd]

I think you'll also find that censorship occurs in all countries, and that much of it is ludicrous. (Look at the list of books banned in various parts of the US - "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe"???)

In general, philosophies are rarely corrupt - if there is corruption, it is usually with an interpretation, an individual or (most often of all) both. The underlying ideas are usually not that bad, though there are always exceptions.

Americans, especially, are bad about seeing the defects in others and ignoring their own. Remove the log from your own eye, before removing the speck from your brother's eye. It really does help.

Re:Very true.

[That's Unpossible!]

I think you'll also find that censorship occurs in all countries, and that much of it is ludicrous. (Look at the list of books banned in various parts of the US - "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe"???)

Do you really fail to see the difference in a school or city banning a book, and a state or federal government banning a book.

How many books has the federal government of the US banned?

Zero.

Americans, especially, are bad about seeing the defects in others and ignoring their own.

"Especially"? No, not especially. Everyone on earth, in general, is bad about seeing their own defects. Or did you think that Bible quote you mentioned was aimed at Americans? No, not "especially."

Re:Very true.

[stonecypher]

I think you'll also find that censorship occurs in all countries, and that much of it is ludicrous. (Look at the list of books banned in various parts of the US - "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe"???)

Er. What are you talking about? The US has very strong anti-censorship laws. The only grounds under US law under which you may be censored are the dissemination of technology which poses a serious hazard to national security (nuclear weapon designs are the canonical example.)

Maybe you're confusing school system censorship lists with real censorship. Frankly, I think the notion that school system "censorship" is abberrant are silly; I just don't think that a high school should teach Lady Chatterly, not because it offends me, but because it's against many parents' models for raising their children. Either way, that has nothing to do with real censorship; there is no state, county, city or municipality which can censor fiction in this country, anywhere, by federal law.

In general, philosophies are rarely corrupt

By definition, a philosophy is not something subject to corruption. Rather than using nebulous words like philosophy, which here do not apply anyway, you might consider giving concrete examples.

Americans, especially, are bad about seeing the defects in others and ignoring their own.

Spoken like a true bigot. But, since you're seeing the defects in us and ignoring that in yourself, you're probably just anther filthy American.

Remove the log from your own eye, before removing the speck from your brother's eye. It really does help.

Tu quoque.

Re:Economic issues...

[pthor1231]

Can't the Chinese surf to external sites, where such problems are rampant???

No, they can't. They have to sign an agreement saying they promise not to view websites that have such material on them currently.

The companies that make it possible

[binarstu]

This article from news.com.com details an Amnesty International report about the Western corporations who have been happy to help China set up its massive surveillance system. Those of us responsible for buying networking hardware for our companies may want to consider where we want our money to go. I would suggest supporting businesses who don't so blatantly assist in massively squashing basic human rights.

Keep this in mind

[Zak3056]

Whenever I see a "I'd take the ruler of North Korea over George W. Bush" or even a simple "US is teh sux0r!" post, it always burns me up that those same people are remarkably silent when we see something like this.

Yep, our nation has some serious problems right now, but we haven't (yet?) even come close to this kind of garbage. So for the next guy who says, "I can't wait for China to replace the US as the global superpower" all I can say is "be careful what you wish for.

Re:Crime has nothing to do with guns.

[Leebert]

It's simple, if you want people to stop being violent, create a pill which lowers aggression and which prevents people from getting angry.

Dude, pass the soma.

How to Help?

[jekk]

I really feel for the plight of the Chinese people, and I believe that the ability to speak anonymously and read freely would go a long way toward enabling them to improve their government. But is there anything that I, as an internet-savy geek, can do to help?

For example, I would gladly cooperate in a massive DOS attack on the great firewall servers... but it wouldn't work (firstly because they'd just block it, and secondly because taking them down would only isolate China, it wouldn't let info in and out).

I would run a freenet server, except that (please correct me if I'm wrong here) my understanding is that with today's design the authorities can tell that freenet is being used... which is enough to silence people even if the authorities can't tell WHAT it was used for. My understanding is that freenet is being altered to meet this challenge, but that it's not there yet.

So is there anyone out there in China.... no, make that anyone with a FRIEND in China who has suggestions of how I can help?

Re:How to Help?

[DigiShaman]

I know someone living in Shanghai. When we talk over AIM or MSN, she explicitly states she does not want to talk about anything political. I asked her why. She said "Because it's best if I don't" or "Please don't ask me ok?, I shouldn't talk about such things". Needless to say, she is scared shitless about the government and the fact she might have her connection monitored via sniffing of packets.

I'm not sure if the government can or would do this to such a degree, but the idea of talking about chinese politics has her spooked. And the fact she is spooked gets me worried too about the entire chinese population being oppressed.

But...then came Skype and the tune changes. Because our VOIP connection is encrypted in real-time, she sings like a bird about her opinions of the chinese government. When she talks to me over Skype, she can't stop ranting and raving about how fucked up it is.

China hasn't been communist for decades

[Colin Smith]

It's been called communist, but it's really just a totalitarian dictatorship.

No individual knows reality.

[elucido]

You have your American view of reality, you only know your reality, not the reality.

If anyone has the manpower..

[Wescotte]

to monitor all these websites/blogs it's China. Just think of all the jobs it's going to create!

Re:chinese government is fascist

[That's Unpossible!]

Patriot act I and II that allows them to act hidden from its' citizens.

For a short period of time only, not indefinitely.

Runs a prison for "enemy combatants" (not civilians, but not military either) that has been accused by just about every neutral observer of being a gulag.

Uh huh... yeah, show me these neutral observers. Amnesty International? Democrats R Us? People related to former inmates? There are no neutral observers on this planet.

Invaded a country on made-up false pretenses.

Finding out something was false doesn't equal making it up.

Allows a traitor to stay in the white house.

Ha ok now we're on to the absurd. I don't really have a problem with Clinton, but I bet you weren't saying anything about this traitor when he was in office, were you? You know, the guy that went to Canada to avoid serving in the military?

Re:chinese government is fascist

[kz45]

Runs a prison for "enemy combatants" (not civilians, but not military either) that has been accused by just about every neutral observer of being a gulag.

compared to other countries in the world, our prisons are like a hotel. Go look at a prison in China sometime, and tell me the U.S. prison is like a gulag. BTW. Sadaam is still alive. This would not have been the case in almost any other country in the world.

In light of Nixon, Reagan, and GWB, Somethings remain the same.

I think you can add clinton to that list as well. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

The source of China's inspiration

[leereyno]

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political,
economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State
to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by
extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."

- Joseph Goebbels

Re:Ok, how many patents do YOU own?

[Steepe]

OK, just for the sake of this is fun now, I'll bite again.

First off, its not my damn fault your broke, and feel slighted in some way because no one will give you anything. Its not my responsibility to give you anything, ever.

I started out I am sure exacly like you are now. my parents never had any money, I lived in a little shotgun house for quite a while, then a house that was right on the river that flooded about every 3rd year the rest of my childhood. But did i slop around in the same squallar I had grown up in, to work a deadend meaningless job until I died, raising my own kids in the same squallar? Nope. I joined the army, put every dime possible into my GI bill (5-1 match at the time) and when I did my time I went to college. I got myself an edumacation, and then started working my ass off to get ahead. (no one ever gets ahead sitting on their behind) I still work for "the man" in a good paying job, and have a side business of my own. (no patents through that business) I make a lot more from my own business, and am probably going to be quitting this job soon. This year I will earn around 250,000. I earn more in a month that my father did at retirement. My kids go to good schools, they have college funds, and I don't feel the slightest bit bad about having "made it". I worked for and earned EVERYTHING I have. NOTHING was given to me ever. Its been a fight, I had to shed a wife who was holding me back with the "we can't do it" attitude, (I was making 60k at that time, had the ideas that are now making me a quarter of a mil a year and could not get her to buy into it)
I do hold one patent, that I am still not doing anything with. (I think it cost me total of like $300 including the patent search) I have several copyrighted things (I mentioned copyright because YOU did.)

My advice to you, quit with the "everyone hates me I have no rights and the world is out to get me" crap and fucking do something. If not, then don't fucking cry about how its unfair I have something and you don't. I busted my fucking ass and missed out on a lot of drugs I'm sure your taking to get where I am. so fuck you for thinking it was given to me.

Re:Ok, how many patents do YOU own?

[pipingguy]

This year I will earn around 250,000. [...] (I was making 60k at that time, had the ideas that are now making me a quarter of a mil a year and could not get her to buy into it)

Do you find that 250K/year is now enough income?

Since you mention that you grew financially out of a poverty situation, have you determined that you are now OK, money-wise?

Just asking, since the pursuit of money can be an end in itself so they say.

Having earned it is much better than having been given it.