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New MS Shell Will Not Be In Longhorn
sootman writes "Remember that new Windows shell? Looks like it'll be yet another technology that won't make it into Longhorn. 'It will take three to five years to fully develop and deliver,' said Microsoft Senior Vice President Bob Muglia this week at Tech Ed 2005. However, it's not dead yet--despite not shipping in Longhorn in 2006 or Longhorn Server in 2007, the article says 'Exchange 12 administration functions will be built atop Monad, which would enable users to do everything from the command line that can be done from the graphical interface.'"
So the question on everyone's minds at this point is: What *will* Longhorn actually have in it? Avalon, Indigo, and WinFX are all being backported to XP/2003, WinFS has been dropped for the release, and now Monad (I love that name) is being cut. I'm not quite sure how Microsoft plans to sell the OS on such exciting features as "Better DRM!" and "We've got the security thing right this time. Promise!"
;-)
"It will take three to five years to fully develop and deliver," said Microsoft Senior Vice President Bob Muglia this week at Tech Ed 2005.
*Jaw hits the floor*
Five years? Whoa. Five years ago, Windows 2000 was brand new. Five years ago, Mac users were still stuck with OS 9. Five years ago, the tech boom was still on. Five years ago, Bill Clinton was still President. Even worse is that Win32 is only ten years old!
If it takes Microsoft five years to get something out the door, I think they will soon find themselves becoming irrelevant in the desktop market. Confidence can be a good thing, but over-confidence can mean disaster. The bright side to this is that users will win when Microsoft is forced to go back to being an applications vendor instead of an OS vendor. Maybe they'll even get around to making another BASIC that doesn't suck.
On a slightly different topic, I really think that Microsoft is really on the wrong track with their combined Desktop/Server codebase bent. As technology marches on, Microsoft will quickly find that their competitors are taking advantage of technological solutions that only make sense on one side of the fence. I have to wonder if some of the delay that we're seeing isn't caused by Microsoft attempting to make all of their technology work in both arenas.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Maybe MS could just make it easier by letting us know what actually *will* make it into Longhorn...
Almost redundant. You can already write scripts with WMI that will let you do MOST of the things in Exchange that you would want to do from the command line, and once it's in the script, it's at least semi-permanent.
Even in UNIX, I tend to write scripts when there's more than 5 commands (even if the commands are all piped together into a single command) - I may know it well enough not to see it later, but my assistant tends to find the scripts very useful for his learning and library.
Video Phone Blogs send video messages straight to the web.
Redmond, WA
Microsoft (TM) announced to day that it's new graphical user interface, code-named Avalon (TM) will not ship with Longhorn (TM), it's next operating system. However, Avalon with be an integral part of Windows 2010.
I read Slashdot for the articles
Microsoft just doesn't have the Monads...
^_^
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
welcome our new longhorn overl - what? Oh nevermind, they're not here yet.
Monad, which would enable users to do everything from the command line that can be done from the graphical interface
Yet another innovation from microsoft? first borrow the windows paradigm and now the cli paradigm.
Maybe MS could just make it easier by letting us know what actually *will* make it into Longhorn...
The usual... trojans, worms, clippy...
2nd: The more time goes on, the more Windows takes on the features of unix.
3rd: Most every OS is some form of unix at this point except for Windows.
4th: Even Windows has a POSIX layer and unix-style command utilities for free as an add-on.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
...That Longhorn updates won't come out nearly as regularly after Longhorn's release as they do now.
With all the features being removed, and the release date getting pushed farther and farther back, Longhorn will end up as nothing more than an expansion pack for Duke Nukem Forever!
- shadowmatter
The RSOD ;-)
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you listen to yourself when you talk or do you just drift in and out? Exactly what "bug" are you talking about. My LINUX box would like to know since it must be out of the loop because it's been running without reboot for over 4 months. I've heard of this bug existing in WinNT but not in LINUX.
What the hell is still in Longhorn?
It seems like every feature that was supposed to be cool except for the 3d-accelerated desktop is going to be either taken out of Longhorn or is going to be backported to XP to promote developers' use of it (like Avalon). Does anyone else see how this could end up with Microsoft effectively having no good reason for the average person to leave XP unless they buy a new PC? Why would a business want to move to Longhorn if it is a warmed over rehash of Windows XP?
So many people went to Windows XP because even those who used Windows 2000 saw a lot of good benefits in it. Despite what some people may say, Windows XP can be a lot faster than Windows 2000 on things like disk I/O. I remember ripping a DVD under Win2k and then doing it again under WinXP when I got XP and seeing significant performance gains to the tune of going from about 4000kb/sec to about 7500-8000kb/sec under XP. Then there were other enhancements, but we all truthfully know that XP was a big jump for the average user of Windows.
But why should people who like XP leave it for Longhorn? Unless Microsoft follows Be's upgrade path for BeOS and charges only $25-$50 for XP upgrade CDs, why should people switch? What does it do for them that can't be done just as easily with XP and which isn't negated by more hardware needs?
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
I hate to say that your mistaken. Microsoft is dropping the "My" from "My computer". This is a revolution of operation system technology.
The next thing that Microsoft will announce is that Longhorn won't run on the new Mac-Intel machines.
Don't give up hope just yet. It may still be ready for the Longhorn release!
"which would enable users to do everything from the command line that can be done from the graphical interface"
I'll belive it when I see it
Sure, see it here, now
Robert Bindler
A Computer Science student's views on technology.
Soon to be announced: the Kernel will not make it on the first incarnation of Longhorn, and will be released in a subsequent version..
SeqBox
OK...here's a quote from the BetaNews article referenced in the summary:
You know, if you would just RTFA, things would be a lot clearer...
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~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Okay, so it's called Monad -- I've only heard this name in one other context, and that's Haskell (http://www.haskell.org./ The interesting thing is that Simon Peyton Jones went to MSR a few years ago.
So, it seems that, either the name is unrealated, and that would suck. Or, that somehow, this is related. *IF* it is realated, I'm not sure how adoption will go. Functional Programming can be a little odd.
Anyone know?
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake -- but you could be if you got off your ass.
Yup, five years. So what I'm lead to wonder is which we'll see first:
1) A good command line for Windows
2) A good GUI for Linux
I also have to wonder if Microsoft would be putting an ounce of effort into developing a command line if that wasn't something beneficial in Linux.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Why does it take so long to compile Cygwin and Bash for Windows?
Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.
Dude. It was funny the first time. Made me smile the second.
It's long since stopped being funny, and just makes stories on Slashdot annoying as hell to read as we scroll past your 8 pages of the same joke.
Remember, breveity is the essence of wit.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Look at the Longhorn driver development page for insight as to what's going on:m spx
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/driver/WDK/default.
People, let's try making a list of that which we do know that (for now at least) will be in Longhorn. Each person who replies just has to copy paste the previous list and add his content :P
Let me start with:
* RSOD (red screens of death)
* Dropping the prefix "My" from "My computer", "My network places", etc
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
Here's where else you might've heard "monad" before.
See Gottfried Leibniz's "Monadology" - here, and with
background info here.
Then check out Gilles Delezue's The Fold -- here. Deleuze is a total nutjob, like so many other French "theorists" or "literary theorists" (whatever that means), but he writes almost cogently about Leibniz.
I assure you that Haskell is not the "one other context" for the concept of a "monad."
"Interesting side note: as a head without a body, I envy the dead."
- Become the only operating system for desktops and servers.
- Become the only or most major game console and games provider.
- Become the most major search engine provider
- Become the only or most major embedded OS provider.
- Become the only offices productivity tools provider.
- Become the only or prevalent music download provider.
- Become the most major e-books provider.
- Become a major hardware provider for peripherals - keyboards and pointers.
- Become the most major progran development tool provider.
- Become the most major publishing tool provider.
- Become the most major browser provider.
- Become the most major media player provider.
- Become the most major media editor provider.
And this is just the list my poor tired old brain can come up with on short notice. I'm sure there's more. And all of it must be tied into the OS so he can claim "it's embedded and I can't get it removed with damaging my product".Gates is spreading his resources out to the breaking point to cover every blasted computing use on the planet and to smother all his competition. Just like a rubber band that's streached too far, it will snap and get ugly quickly when the end comes.
Too lazy to create a sig...
Ho hum...
In direct contrast to Apple (who had the sense to realise a good thing when they saw it by using *BSD as the basis of OSX) Microsofts new mission statement seems to be to prove the adage:
"Those who don't understand UNIX are doomed to reinvent it, poorly."
--Henry Spencer
(apologies if the quote is attributed to the wrong person but I'm drunk and simply Googled for the first result...)
And I'm not saying humanity can't do better than *nix but, currently, it's still a hell of a good start (mind you I've worked on ICLs, now Fujitsus, VME which is simply a pure pleasure... a pure pleasure... File generations... Mmmm... recover that file from 10 edits ago before you made a complete balls up of everything...)
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
It is not necessarily a bad thing that you can't configure everything from the command-line.
Yes, it is. *nix users have understood that for decades. And that's why the "Windows" response to a problem is to reinstall the OS.
Longhorn is going to be packed with golden goodies which are so wonderful that nobody will be able to see them. It will take the few years following for their opacity to set in.
1. Microsoft is looking at implementing a subscription model instead of standard box sales in the near future.
2. Microsoft takes, on average, 5 years plus between major revisions of their operating system.
3. Microsoft's next operating system will not have the cool whiz-bang features they promised us, in spite of its six year lead time.
4. Microsoft's Windows operating system does not come bundled with any useful applications. Their video editing application has a featureset close to zero, and MSPaint is simply unchanged since 1990, having not so much as a smudge tool. WordPad is a completely inferior word processor compared to ANY other currently available.
5. Microsoft's operating systems cost a minimum of 99 US dollars, double that for anything useful in a business or network.
In conclusion, Microsoft's "option" will cost you a yearly cost for a product that is improved minimally every five years, with a smaller feature set than you were promised, and you have to buy any applications separately if you'd like to do anything WITH your computer.
Oh, Microsoft stock? SIGN ME UP!
Why didn't they just look at what was available elsewhere, and copy the VMS shell (which Digital released for the VAX machines in 1978)? Clean, simple, and with command and option names that are actually possible to remember.
One of the most advertised aspects when Windows NT came out was that it was "designed by the people who wrote VMS". If this was true, does anyone know why they forgot to include the only part of VMS that's actually visible to normal users?
Sorry for ranting. I really loved the VMS command line. :-)
Christian Engström, Former Member of the European Parliament 2009-2014 for The Pirate Party, Sweden
How about a shorter list... features that aren't going to end up in XP anyway, and features that actually have value.
.NET, and vector graphics.
.NET framework 2.0 (the foundation for Longhorn)
Avalon: a new user interface subsystem and API based on XML,
Which will also be available for XP. Scratch one.
WinFX: a new API replacing the current Win32 API (there's of course still Win32 + Win64)
That's two (or is it three) new APIs. New APIs by themselves have negative value. What can you do with them... that's the important bit.
Lower user privileges (IE 7 will run in these on Longhorn)
Fixing the wrong problem. The only reason to run IE in some kind of sandbox is because of its broken active content model. Instead they should fix IE by backing that out and split off a local HTML scripting environment (like Dashboard, but without the stupid UI), and making IE into a normal browser... a purely web aplication that has no ability to download applets and automatically* run them with full local rights.
Included compiler (msbuild)
Ah, finally catching on to what every UNIX vendor figured out by the early '90s. Even SCO ecentually "got" that. Of course you can download SFU and get an included compiler AND a decent shell, RIGHT NOW... so this is also available for XP and Windows 2000.
New document format competitive to PDF
Something else with negative value.
An application deployment engine ("ClickOnce")
Sounds Linspired. I hope they've actually thought about security this time.
New desktop search capabillities
Already available for XP, not a Longhorn feature.
Improved security through lower privileged accounts and services
You're repeating yourself.
* popping up a routine dialog box that people are used to clicking OK on is hardly better than running it with no warning.