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PC Prices Reach $300 Milestone
Carl Bialik from the WSJ writes "Prices for fully loaded, name-brand PCs have slipped below $300 in the last few weeks, a major milestone. 'Ten or so years ago, when PCs cost five or even 10 times what they do now, it was common for analysts to say that they would never become a staple in homes until they were priced the way consumer electronics were, usually defined as costing less than $300,' Lee Gomes writes in the Wall Street Journal. 'In the days when PCs were $2,000 and even more, that target seemed to be something of a fantasy. Now, PCs cost less than some telephones--and less than a lot of TV sets--and can be found in roughly three-quarters of U.S. homes. But while they are priced like consumer electronics, the machines still aren't even remotely as easy to use, and the trend lines there aren't particularly encouraging.'"
I now expect I'll be modded up as insightful. :-)
But in truth... Running IE and Outlook Express out of the box when pre-configured by Dell and hooked up by your local cable/DSL installer, vs. running Firefox and Thunderbird when configured and hooked up by your friend who knows their way around Linux... about the same learning curve. The trick is that if your friend who knows Linux set you up right, you won't be infected with three viruses and 18 types of spyware six months later.
Windows vs. Linux in usage... about the same. Maintenance... Linux wins.
- Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
Of course they're harder to use! I'd like to see any other consumer electronic do half of what is possible on a computer. That's why they aren't incredibly easy to use, easy enough for any idiot: they are very powerful and the possibilities are many. Maybe somebody should make an OS that even completely idiotic people can use.
I don't know about you, but computers are fairly simple to use out of the box nowadays. Plug it in, turn it on, point and click. Unless companies are still shipping DOS boxes to the massess.... I see more and more adults, kids and teenagers using computers than I ever have. So, it appears that computers are easy to use as long as the user has some sort of intelligence.
These cheap pc's are nothing but junk. Spend the extra money on a good machine
Prices for fully loaded, name-brand PCs have slipped below $300 in the last few weeks, a major milestone.
The PCs that are below $300 may be 'brand name' but they are hardly what I'd call 'fully loaded.' Usually 128MB memory and a Celeron or Sempron. Definitely not the Rolls-Royce of computing.
Yup. And then pay for techs to handle the "omg wtf, why won't this page load. U are the sux0r!".
I switched my folks over to Firefox, and this is what I got. Ended up putting the IE icon back on their desktop. Told them I will not clean spyware any more.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Remember back in the 1980's when Commodore, Tandy, Atari, and Texas Instruments lead the pack in home computers? These machines were priced right around the magical $300 mark back then. So how did we go from such great, cheap machines to the expensive PC-compatibles just a few years later?
I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
...is a laptop below $100.
While lower prices for desktop machines is great, we need to find a way to get laptops down to a price point where they can be used to replace textbooks for highschool students.
This textbook replacement laptop doesn't necessarily have to have every possible feature, but I think it does need networking, USB, a harddrive, and a display that is fast enough for word processing and simple animations. The ability to play music might insure that the kids don't lose it. The kids can play FPS games at home on their $300 PCs; this machine is meant for study.
Obviously, Linux will be part of that solution, since Windows simply costs too much money.
The educational software for such machines should all be Open Source. This will make it easier for governments and school systems to adapt the software to their particular needs. Each school district can employ a couple of Open Source programmers. Think of what the combined capabilities of so many programmers will be when it comes to developing educational software.
It's sad that we don't hear about wonderful educational software. The people who work on such software aren't held in the same regard as those who work on business enterprise applications or on games, yet educational software could potentially have much farther reaching impacts.
-All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
www.ra
The average consumer also tends to believe that their computer is broken when in fact it is still functioning perfectly, or at least as "perfectly" as a windows box could run.
Ten or so years ago, when PCs cost five or even 10 times what they do now, it was common for analysts to say that they would never become a staple in homes until they were priced the way consumer electronics were, usually defined as costing less than $300. In the days when PCs were $2,000 and even more, that target seemed to be something of a fantasy.
I dunno about this, it seems to me that PCs have been a household staple for a while now. Even when they still cost $1000, they were common enough that it would be a surprise for a household not to have a PC in it. If you also consider the number of homes which have an obsolete PC (older than 5 years old or so) which are pretty much given away at rummage sales and such, the PC is just about ubiquitous.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
I have to disagree. There's nothing piteous about people expecting the same functionality out of their computer that they get out of the TV and DVD player. If that's what they want, that's what they'll buy. It just won't be the computer you'd choose to buy. Selling a computer most /.'ers wouldn't buy is hardly a bad decision from the start, since those who expect a toaster's functionality out of a PC tend to outnumber those who don't.
That said, anything requiring constant upkeep should be built/designed to do its own. The car analogy usually brought out around now doesn't fly because of an average computer's miniscule # of moving parts. The maintanence you're referring to isn't about changing ball bearings and gaskets. It's about patches and updates.
You don't clean your refrigerator and your microwave? That's disgusting.
Computers don't break themselves. Users break computers.
Well, that's quickly changing: these days, computers can break themselves, be it via automatic upgrades, spyware, or worms that come in through vendor-supplied security holes.
I would love nothing more then to have every brand new computer running linux on them. The fact of the matter is that installing an application for linux and its removable is more complex for the basic user. Until theres a universal package and delivery system for linux that the average joe can point-and-click to install, linux is not going to take off the ground. And yes I know of apt-get and emerge and their GUI frontends, but really they arent simply enough. Remember we are working for more of a duh-duh idiot then you or me.
Bullshit. eMachines didn't launch until 1998 and they didn't have $300 PCs at that point. They were cheaper than the alternatives but they were not $300. Up until last year you used to be able to get nice laptops from them as well. But then gateway bought them out last year and they don't sell laptops anymore. And their prices went up for their regular systems too. Their cheapest one is $369 now *without* the monitor and after the $50 MIR. Gateway bought them just to kill them off basically. Hell, you can buy a dell for $299 now and get the monitor and a piece of shit printer.
I recently bought a new PC. I paid the same as I did for my first Intel PC 15 years ago. Yes, cheap PC's has gotten cheaper, but the price for a top notch PC with all the bells and whistles has been more or less stable for quite some time.
Underholdning.info
Idiocy. Some things are complex and require more knowledge to use effectively than others not because they are poorly designed but because they are much more powerful and versatile. How many functions a typical representative of "consumer electronic" serves? Even a TV needs just on/off, channel up, channel down, volume up & down to operate (the rest is hardly used). Is anything more complex in the consumer electronic field?
What we have to do to shove this plain old truth down the underdeveloped journalistic cerebrums?
I worked at Office Depot during that time frame, where we sold eMachines as soon as they came out. And, while they were much cheaper than the mainstream brands, they were not in the $300 ballpark (at least not on the sticker).
We sold primarily HP and Compaq machines to most consumers. For a given configuration, the HP or Compaq machine would range from ~$1300 to ~$1700.
Comparably, the eMachines model with approximately the same configuration would be ~$700 on the sticker. However, if you signed for eighteen billion years of AOL and some other promotions, you could get rebates that would knock it down to about $300. But, there wa absolutely no way is $300 flat on the sticker.
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Last line of the summary: "But while they are priced like consumer electronics, the machines still aren't even remotely as easy to use, and the trend lines there aren't particularly encouraging."
That's what you're buying with the $200 difference. A Mac's still expensive for an entry-level PC, but it's not 2-3 times as expensive any more.
No, they shouldn't be. We don't expect our cars, sophisticated pieces of engineering that they are, to just sit and work like TVs and VCRs do. We all internally know that every once in a while we've gotta get the oil changed and check the fluid levels.
Even if we don't do it ourselves (ie, we take it to a shop), we know that it needs to be serviced and we have the appropriate work done.
PCs are the same thing. They require periodic maintenance to get rid of viruses and spyware and the like, as well as uninstalling grandma beatrices crapware program that she insisted on installing because Yahoo! told her it was a good idea.
The bottom line is that PCs are not toasters or TVs or even DVD players. They are sophisticated pieces of machinery and if the owner is too dumb to realize that and take care of it, then they shouldn't own one.
thought... we require drivers licenses to operate cars the benefit of traffic safety. maybe we should require PC licenses for internet safety.
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That's funny, because in my experience, computers do last, unattended and with no maintenance, for years and years on end.
In my 20+ years using computers, I only dusted out the inside of a computer once. I did that replacing the harddrive during the only serious hardware failure I have experienced in that 20+ years of computing. My MTBF is 10 years without dusting. Why would I dust?
Software upgrades are necessary? On what planet? Oh, I guess you must be from planet internet - the source of most modern computer problems. Why does everybody today presume that a computer is just a net-access device? You can do a lot more things with a computer than surf pr0n, you know. I still have a PC running Windows 95, with no firewall or anything else on it. It makes a great machine for those older games which require emulation to run on XP. It's also great for anything I don't want broken into by some nefarious hacker. My requirements for the machine haven't changed - why should my software?
It seems that the problem with most need for software upgrades come from changes in the internet environment. That is a completely separate issue from regular computer maintenance. I agree with you that computers don't break themselves - users break them. I think you'll find the same to be true for tables, chairs, and other very reliable items around the home.
once people give it a chance and get to know how it works, they start to get on just fine with it. i've had a similar, if slightly less hysterical, reaction at work, where all but one of my staff are very happy with it. big sell here? the forecast fox extension, god they love it.
I switched my folks over to Firefox, and this is what I got.
As did I... And when they made that same complaint (somewhat more eloquently phrased), I explained that pages not loading (or even crashing their browser) meant, in no uncertain terms, that the owner of that site didn't want their business.
Problem solved.
As an aside - I've noticed that quite a few "major" sites DELIBERATELY crash Firefox... Weather.com, as the example I notice most often (since I actually visit it regularly)... I use the User Agent Switcher extension, and if I set it to MSIE (or even to no user agent at all), such sites work just fine. If I set it to FF or Moz - Bam!, dead browser.
I mean, not taking the effort to make a site compatible, I can understand - But to actually exert effort to deliberately break some browsers? You'd almost think such actions must violate some law...
"We're half a decade into the 21st century. Computers should be like a dishwasher or a microwave. They should not require me to do any regular cleaning, any regular patching. It should just work."
Do you add and remove features from either device on a regular basis? Do other dishwashers try to exploit your dishwasher?
If people wanted dishwasher/microwave features ONLY, the internet appliance would have taken off.
Well, yeah, but 6 months after you buy it, you can't repurpose your TIVO to balance your checkbook inbetween recording your movies.
To achieve the end you're suggesting, you'd have to lock the pc down and not allow software installation.
IMO, software installation (and de-installation) is the primary cause of serious computer breakage. (Yes, spyware, etc fall into this category).
The Dell computer that was mentioned included a celeron processor and 256 MG RAM and a 40 GB Hard drive, when Frye's is selling 1GB sticks for around $99.00 and 100GB hard drives also inder $100.00
A buyer would be better off getting a 2-year old Pentium or AMD system for a similar price. The box would say fewer MHZ, probably, but a higher quality, most likely.
Would you prefer a bran new Dodge Neon, or a 5-year old Mercedes?
I'm quite sure that Microsoft wouldn't love anything more than being able to enforce such things but I doubt that this is the main issue why oems don't do it.
The main issue is cost. Most (read all) businesses aren't about ideology. Why would they go through the trouble to disable some of windows and install Openoffice and firefox? If for example real was paying them to isntall their play, then I could understand but going through the trouble to install 3rd party software is not on the oem's agenda.
You would only be exchanging virus and spyware support calls for 'why can't I open this website' 'Why doesn't this activeX work on my 'internet'', 'why doesn't that doc sent to me by a friend look the same on my computer' kind of calls.
Seeing how they treat most of the virus/spyware problems (reinstall). I say they would prefer them to the alternative.
Oh man, you've been in that coma for a while.
Yeah, right.
The reason is: with PCs, I have a consistant interface. Even if I use different OSes, the idea is the same, just follow the menus.
."
Maybe it's just me, but I still haven't mastered my stereo, or my TV/DVD/VCR/Remotes. My PC, by contrast, is a cinche.
With my entertainment system, it's always: " . . . no wait, if I'm going to tape the show, *first* I have to VCR power, *then* power-TV, then switch to the other remote, then push that little button on the top - no wait - that was with old remote - with *this* remote, I have to use the VCR remote to turn on the TV, I only use the TV remote to change to channel 3, and to adjust the volume. Damnit, that didn't work . .
And every settup is completely different. I don't have that sort of problem with a PC, with a PC I just follow the menus.
"I'm finding it hard to think of a circumstance that a user would benefit from buying a new machine."
Here's the exact way to tell. When a user is faced with paying market rate for any sort of labor to fix the problem. That's when. With billed labor costs in the US typically running from $50-100/hr, it doesn't take much to reach 75%-100% of a new PC's cost in labor.
People often go on and on about the cost of Windows contributing to the PC (and it's a valid point as prices dip into this range). However, when compared to the cost of labor the gap gets even wider.
[warning: car analogy ahead] Imagine if repairs or maintenance for your car was similarly priced to PC services at the current pricepoints. "Setup" from GeekSquad is somewhere around $150. That's 50% for *setup*. However, for an on-site call, compared to other labor-based services, that's not an unreasonable rate.
It's not just computers though. Paying directly for labor is much more expensive than spreading that across thousands of customers like a product does.
You can always offset these costs if you are able to do the labor yourself. Brake pads aren't expensive, but paying someone to bleed the lines is. Electrical outlets and wire aren't expensive, but paying someone to install a new GFI outlet in your bathroom is.
The more expensive the product, the more reasonable paying for services is. I'm OK paying $200 for some work on my car (which costs $15,000 when new), but not $200 for work on a PC that I can replace for $300. PC's used to be in the $2000 range, but just aren't anymore.
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
On the other hand the "Entry level PC" of ten years ago is the handheld mobile phone of today.
Darn inflation and devaulation. They probably hit the "real" value of 1995 $300 at about $400 today.
No! It's a *SIG*. Keep the Special Interest Groups away! (Con joke!)
This is called Using the Wrong Tool for the Job. If you want to send more than one file at a time, you really need an FTP client, not a web browser. HTTP was never designed for multiple file up/downloads in this way. Ever heard of the Law of Unintended Consequences?
.tar.gz with several pics in it. But I wouldn't expect everyone to get it .....
Being a fully-paid-up Penguin Shagger myself, if I was writing a Web-based photo-sharing application I would just allow you to HTTP-upload a
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
No, the PC will never catch up with the mobile phone.
You do know they're made in the same factory in China, don't you? With Microtel, you pay for the components (and someone to put them together, but child labor in China is cheap). With Dell, you pay for the same components and child labor, plus 4 or 5 full page ads in glossy magazines, a handful of TV spots and that billboard down the road. If you're lucky, you might get to sponsor a cinema ad in full widescreen Dolby surround as well.
I prefer to look at it as what percentage of the hardware price I have to spend on software. For Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office, that percentage has been increasing steadily and dramatically over the past ten years.