$70 Cordless Notebook Mouse with No Scroll Wheel

superfloungmous writes "CoolTechZone.com has reviewed Logitech's latest V500 Cordless Notebook Mouse that uses 2.4GHz wireless technology to transmit signal and has a scroll panel instead of a scroll wheel. The concept behind a scroll wheel is you simply move your finger in up, down, left and right directions to use the function. The mouse has a whopping $70.00 price tag as well. Could this be the end of scroll wheels? Here's a quote from the review, "One of the unique things about the V500 is its scroll panel, and this is the very first mouse to actually use this concept. Throughout our testing, we are nothing but impressed with Logitech's new idea. It worked perfectly, and it's actually better than a scroll wheel in many instances. It looks like the era of scroll wheels is short-lived if Logitech applies the same design to its desktop equivalent products."

Comments

2.4 GHz

[bigtallmofo]

"Hmm.. That's weird. Every time I move my mouse, I get disconnected from my 802.11g network."

Re:2.4 GHz

[cybersaga]

"Hmm.. That's weird. Every time I move my mouse while talking on the phone, the person on the other end sounds like Satan."

Re:2.4 GHz

[magefile]

That happens to me a lot, and I'm not even using a wireless mouse! ...

Oh. SHIT.

Re:2.4 GHz

[Jeff DeMaagd]

The thing that bugs me is that it isn't Bluetooth. Bluetooth is 2.4GHz too, but it seems to coexist fine with WiFi, and will work with many more recievers than just the one in the package. I keep a Bluetooth mouse with my laptop, in part because my laptop has an integrated bluetooth reciever.

A proprietary USB dongle just means something more to break off, more potential wear on the USB ports and such.

Re:2.4 GHz

[sammy baby]

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I just snagged a new laptop with built-in Bluetooth, and it's shocking exactly how few bluetooth travel mice there are out there.

If you're going to include a dongle in the packaging anyway, why not make it a bluetooth one? The mouse I eventually bought came bundled with one, and I just tossed it. (Okay, actually, I just put it aside.)

I could see the need for a 2.4Ghz transmitter if this were a presentation remote or something similar, but come on, people. Most of us don't sit fifty feet from our laptops.

Re:2.4 GHz

[pixelpusher220]

Something sorta up this alley...

Back in the day when I was working on a DOS based, flat file database app; one of the new guys discovered that if you moved the mouse, searchs, updates, maintenance processing, ran faster.

The logical reason was that the interupt checking to see if the user had hit the space bar to cancel, was firing and not waiting that extra milisecond because the mouse was saying 'nope nothing happening here' quicker than just timing out the interupt. So you just balance the mouse on the SHIFT key and boom, faster processing of long reports!

The Customer Support people in house were like "We are NOT telling that to customers!"

Re:2.4 GHz

[Mr Bill]

Although I know you were going for humour here, I just want to dispell any concerns people might have that take your comments seriously.

I have this mouse, and my Wireless-G router is about a foot and a half away from my mouse, and I have not had any conflicts. It would be silly if Logitech didn't take that into consideration.

As for the quality of this mouse, I have had it for about 5 months now, and it is amazing. I've only replaced the batteries once, and I use it for at least 8 hours a day, and I rarely turn it off. They got the size right as well for a laptop mouse. Not too big, and not impossible to use like those micro mice.

This one is definately worth the high price tag...

Re:2.4 GHz

[ArsonSmith]

Are you on the phone with Microsoft support?

small nit to pick

[justforaday]

One of the unique things about the V500 is its scroll panel, and this is the very first mouse to actually use this concept.

Kensington's been making a mouse with a touch panel in place of a scroll wheel for well over 2 years now. Admittedly it only does the up/down thing (no side to side action). Either way, 70 bucks is still way too much for a mouse of any kind as far as I'm concerned...

Re:small nit to pick

[dustbin]

In addition to Kensington's product that came out in '02, there was at least a prototype displayed at CES a few years before that by Fujitsu. Never saw it for sale in the states, but it looked like production plastics, so it was probably available in Japan.

The interesting point about the Logitech design is their best ergonomic feature isn't being noticed - it isn't even called out by Logitech. The very small sensor they're using lets them push the sensor way up to the front of the mouse. It's long been known that the mice "feel" more responsive the closer you get the sensor to a point midway between the fingertips that are guiding the mouse. Most sensors have been too big to fit up there, so they're positioned farther back, where they don't move as far as the fingertips do.

Real ergonomics is too subtle for marketing, I guess. Maybe it's because the "ball forward" concept was originally used to promote the Microsoft Dove Bar mouse http://www.ideo.com/portfolio/re.asp?x=12328 and the standard Apple ergonomic mouse of the ~90s.

Re:small nit to pick

[bhtooefr]

How funny ;-)

First, there's the mouse.
Then, there's the trackball, which is put into laptops.
Then, somebody at IBM realizes that the trackball is too big, and puts in the TrackPoint (pointing stick).
Next, somebody else also figures out that the trackball is too big. They use a touchpad.
Microsoft (this is debatable, though) puts a sort of one-axis trackball in their mice for scrolling.
IBM sees it, and puts a TrackPoint in the top of their mice for two-axis scrolling.
Then, Kensington and Logitech decide to put a sort of touchpad in the tops of their mice for one or two-axis scrolling ;-)

So, every major pointing device after the mouse (except for the touchscreen) has been strapped onto the top of a mouse for scroll functionality ;-)

Re:small nit to pick

[justforaday]

Great, just what we need -- more mice...

Re:Pictures?

[closer_neg9]

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details /US/EN,CRID=3,CONTENTID=9508

sounds like the iPod interface

[binarstu]

This sounds remarkably like the interface that Apple has devised to allow scrolling through menus, volume control, etc. on their iPod line of products. This isn't surprising, because the interface works extremely well and is very intuitive.

Re:sounds like the iPod interface

[DarkSarin]

People like to complain about the price, but remember, kids, that the $70 is from logitech. Newegg has it for $49 (out of stock) and other places have it for as little as $29 (after rebate).

Shop around--you'll get it at a reasonable price. NEVER buy directly from the manufacturer--you pay more, and they make a higher percentage profit off your purchase!

Re:sounds like the iPod interface

[ArsonSmith]

They are both objects. Smaller than a bread box. Not related to a giraffe.

Actually they are almost exactly the same.

Laptop touchpads have this as well

[shailesh17]

A similar scroll pad exists on the synaptics touchpad that comes on compaq's presario R3000 laptops - but just does the up/down movements. It works nice but I still prefer the wheel on standard mice cause it provides better control over speed.

Re:Laptop touchpads have this as well

[antifoidulus]

The latest revision of powerbooks have a scrolling function built into the touch pad as well(and you can go left and right), you just use 2 fingers instead of one when you want to scroll. I use it and it's quite useful IMO.

First??? Im not sure about that.

[falcon5768]

ummm unless I am mistaken there is already a mouse with a scroll pad.

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail~dpno~46 3024.asp

been out for at least a year now too.

Kinda like this kensington one then?

[Anonymous Coward]

But with a 2D touchpad?
http://www.kensington.com/html/4769.html

Miserable editing

[nganju]

The concept behind a scroll wheel is you simply move your finger in up, down, left and right directions to use the function.

I think you mean scroll panel, not scroll wheel. Does anyone even read these before posting them?

Tactile feedback

[guyfromindia]

One think I like about scroll wheels is the tactile feedback.. (bumps when you roll the wheel)
It gives me a perspective on how much I am scrolling.
without it, I am not sure it will be a good experience..

Re:Tactile feedback

[md81544]

I bought a microsoft cordless mouse last year - and the scroll wheel has no "bumps"! I agree with you - it's an odd sensation not having them there. But you do get used to it. It's annoying though when you're playing Counterstrike and you use the scrollwheel to select weapons - you have to be careful not to overshoot the one you wanted.

What the!!!!

[kaje103]

I was on google searching for dicks and assholes and I get linked to this stupid /. site!

No middle click!

[thule]

Since there is no way to press down on that panel, that means there is no middle click for us X users out there. That middle click turns into the command for left scroll.

Other than that, the mouse is pretty nice. No moving parts except for the right/left buttons. When the mouse is in off mode, the right/left buttons dis-engage.

I have one

[radish]

The "wheel" works pretty well, it's certainly nice to scroll up and down with, no complaints there. I also like the other design aspects of the mouse - like the tiny transmitter which fits inside the mouse for safe keeping. What I really don't like (being a Firefox user) is the lack of a middle button (which of course a wheel usually doubles as). It's very irritating to lose my middle-click open new tab function. If I had realised you couldn't use the touch pad as a button, I wouldn't have bought it.

Re:I have one

[hikerhat]

Some people don't have their other hand free when using firefox.

I already have a mouse

[StarCharter]

What I need is a $70 cordless notebook.

Whatever happened to BlueTooth?

[Minstrel Boy]

I don't understand why the majority of wireless mice/keyboards out there use RF rather than BlueTooth. It's a reasonable standard, it's been out there for awhile, lots of notebooks come with built-in BlueTooth - I expected to see all the newer wireless mice start to use it over the past couple of years. Is it licensing fees? Power consumption? Implementation problems?

KeS

First were keys.

[SharpFang]

First of all were keys. Separate. One press, one effect.
Then keys on top of keys. Shift plus a key... And keys on top of keys of keys. Double bucky :)
Then, paddles. One manipulator - one rotary wheel, plus a key. Two of them, separate. Plus one key on each.
Then came standard joystick, essentially four keys connected into one. Plus one separate (fire).
Then came mouse. Two paddles connected into one. Plus two keys on top.
About the same time came analog joystick. Two paddles connected into one, but with ability to return to original position by itself. Sometimes better than mouse, sometimes not. Of course, keys on top.
Then some aberrations like trackball (mouse on its back) or driving wheel with pedals (2 paddles mounted in specific positions), mousepad without mouse (touch tablet), mousepad without mouse on top of keys (touch pad) micro-joystick on top of keys (trackpoint), etc - marginal use. And all with lots of keys on them.
Then they added another paddle on top of the mouse. Wheel mouse.
Analog joystick evolved. Two more joysticks were added in paralell (PS gamepad).
Sometime along yet another paddle was added to top of mouse. (a4tech etc 2-wheel mice).
Some more aberrations. Paddle on top of keys (keyboards with scrollwheels), Joystick on top of joystick (multiple levels of freedom), triple paddles (steering wheels with throttle), touch tablets on top of screens (touch screens), etc.
Now we learn Logitech put a joystick on top of a mouse.

Still waiting for mouse on top of a mouse (trackball instead of wheel), mouse on top of a joystick (trackball again, seemed like xbox2 would have it but not), and whatever comes next, following the pattern.

Remember: keys and paddles.

And of course screens on top of screens (windows).

Iffy ergonomics....

[Half-pint HAL]

As someone with a personal and professional interest in ergonomics, I'm not too happy about this.

First up, scroll wheels are a Bad Thing to start off with as they encourage unnatural movements of the middle finger while holding the rest of the fingers static.

Secondly, things like zero-travel buttons and trackpads all too often prove far too sensitive -- any small twitch is interpreted as a meaningful movement. The result is that the user tenses up to avoid making any inadvertant movements.

As all computer-people should know: tension is the root cause of many an RSI.

HAL

Powerbook trackpad / Firefox?

[slthytove]

I assume your browser history problems occur when you are using Firefox, as I had the same problem when I got my new Powerbook. Thinking something was fishy, I investigated a little bit, and it turns out that the behavior is due to (IMHO) a poor choice for default horizontal scrolling behavior in Firefox.

If you want to change Firefox to actually scroll side-to-side, open up Firefox and enter the URL "about:config"

Enter a filter of "mousewheel" so you're only seeing settings relating to the mousewheel.

Set mousewheel.horizscroll.withnokey.action to 0 (the default value is 2, I believe). You may also want to try adjusting the values of mousewheel.horizscroll.withnokey.numlines and mousewheel.withnokey.numlines to get a more comfortable feel for how screens scroll in Firefox (and make sure to set the .sysnumlines values for each of those to "false," otherwise your changes won't have any effect).

After I got those settings fixed, I found scrolling with the Trackpad in Firefox to be quite handy, though for some reason it still seems touchier than Safari. Oh well - I guess not enough of Firefox's developers are Powerbook users, and I lack the initiative to make a positive change.

Re:Powerbook trackpad / Firefox?

[FuzzyBad-Mofo]

Here's what worked for me with Powerbook trackpad + Firefox:

1. go to about:config
2. set mousewheel.horizscroll.withnokey.action = 0
3. set mousewheel.withnokey.sysnumlines = false
4. set mousewheel.horizscroll.withnokey.numlines = 1