Slashdot Mirror


Your Digital Photos Are Too Professional

ScentCone writes "AP's technology writer Brian Bergstein reports that your 8 megapixel camera, and lukewarm+ lens/Photoshop skills may keep you from getting over the counter image printing services. Professional photographers have successfully sued processors (like Wal-Mart) for reproducing their digital works without permission. Clerks are now being told to deny print orders for some work that looks too good. Talented amateurs are having to jump through hoops, present documents, and otherwise cajole teenage cashiers into taking their orders. No doubt one successful suit costs more than a thousand denied amateurs' orders, but sheesh. On the other hand, pro wedding photographers depend mightily on the income derived from reproducing their work, and it will take time for things to evolve to the point where clients are willing to pay a lot more up front in exchange for wider image rights after the fact. There's no well-supported digital equivalent to a negative (as reasonable proof of ownership), so retailers are defensively resorting to near paranoia to stay out of court."

39 of 739 comments (clear)

  1. what's all the fuss? by yagu · · Score: 5, Funny

    I don't know what all of the fuss is about.... I've been having my pictures printed at WalMart for years, and never had any problems....

    That leads to some awkward moments at photo desks when customers' images get barred for essentially looking too good.

    ..., ahem, ...., uh, ...., never mind.

    1. Re:what's all the fuss? by noidentity · · Score: 5, Funny

      Luck you! I had them rejecting freakin' accidental shots of the wall, claiming I must be trying to reproduce some expensive abstract modern art.

    2. Re:what's all the fuss? by WickedClean · · Score: 3, Funny

      A friend of mine had some trouble with Walmart censoring his personal photos. He and some friend took some funny pics with a hot dog and it looked like...well...a 'real' weiner. They refused to give my friend his pics, so he stood by the desk and harassed the customers for a half hour before they finally agreed to give him the pics if he'd just go away.

      --
      ...All I can say is that my life is pretty strange...
    3. Re:what's all the fuss? by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 3, Interesting

      All you open source people out there should be refusing to buy non-"open source" photography. Seriously why would you buy a photograph if the photographer will not sell you the right to reprint it. I don't mean art for your wall, but the fact is as far as I'm concerned if I pay someone to create a 'portrait' of my or take pictures at my wedding that is precisely a 'work for hire' and ___I___ should have the copy write to that work. When I had my wedding done I insisted on it. btw my wife is a professional photographer. You can certainly structure your prices in such a way as to make money from the 1st purchase of photos so you don't NEED to retain the copy write to them. Besides that have you ever tried to get a reprint done of someone's wedding photo on their 20th or 50th wedding anniversary good luck finding the photographer. just my 2 cents.

      --
      âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
  2. Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by Skyshadow · · Score: 5, Informative
    On the other hand, pro wedding photographers depend mightily on the income derived from reproducing their work

    I always cringe when I read something like this. To anyone who is planning a wedding out there: Don't be fooled into this!

    It's a little off-topic, but I want to point out that this practice - once "just the way it was" when it came to wedding photography - is becoming less and less common. When we got married (a year ago next Sunday), the #1 thing we looked for was a photographer who wouldn't insist on maintaining the copyrights to the photos.

    This turned out not to be a problem; the few photographers we looked at who still wanted to maintain copyrights were all old-school (in a negative sense) in other ways, too. One guy even wanted to tell us that our relatives wouldn't be allowed to take pictures at our own fucking wedding! I can't imagine how someone would hire this guy; what kind of asshole is actually going to tell their guests they can't take pictures?

    Anyhow, the photographer we ended up with used film rather than digital. I actually looked for this; it added a little bit of work on our part on the back end of the wedding, but as a hobbyist myself I feel there's a real advantage to film specifically in terms of the quality of black and white photos. She did a great job, too.

    Once the pictures were developed, we got all the negatives. We scanned the pictures using a kick-ass negative scanner from Nikon that we bought refurbed (and then sold on eBay for a profit) and stuck the pictures out on Ofoto so our friends and relatives could order right from there. Compare this to my Best Man's wedding a year earlier where he went with a "traditional" photog who kept the copyrights from the photos and wanted to charge us $20 per shot... Well, let's just say I don't have any of the pro shots from that wedding.

    Now, back on topic: If your photos look too good, why hassle with the local Walmart just to get yourself what's going to be, at best, an 'okay' print? Unless you need the prints Right Now, go online! When I'm trying to get my own "good" photos printed, I've had great luck with Adorama's printing service. Plus, they're used to seeing shots that are far better than what I can produce. Ofoto (or whatever they're calling themselves these days) generally kicks out satisfactory results as well.

    --
    Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
    1. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by lupine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I went digital for my wedding, but the agreement with the photographer stipulated that I was the copyright holder and that the digital copies would be turned over to me. He was allowed to keep & make copies to promote his business, but he was not allowed to sell them.

      I agree absolutely there is no reason to give up control of copyright to the pictures of your own wedding. We were able to turn around and make good quality prints for friends and relatives for pennies. Our total printing costs came to just over a hunderd dollars and we were able to send out prints along with every thank-you card.

      Photographers deserve to be paid as a professional at a fair wage for their time and effort, but they dont deserve to 0wnZ3r your wedding.

    2. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 5, Interesting
      My sister ran into a similar problem getting reproductions of old photos of us as kids.

      You go to a professional photographer, and the studio claims to own the copyright, cause you just paid them to shoot the photos (a service) -- prints are extra and they still own the image.

      Now, if you're a photographer working at the studio, you shoot the photos, but the studio owns the copyright, cause it's "work-for-hire".

      Seems to me a contradiction, unless you realize that the actual rule is "It's always owned by the Man." Then it all makes sense.

      To add insult to injury, some of the studios that shot the old photos don't even exist anymore to provide prints or permission.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    3. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by csimpkin · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I had the same experience. I started by going to the "best" wedding photographer in town. He maintained full ownership of the photos and no one else could take pictures. I told my wife, "I don't think so."

      I found another photographer that only charged 50 dollars extra for me to keep complete rights to the photos if I didn't buy one of his wedding packages and anybody could take pictures. If I bought one of his wedding packages then the rights were included.

      One of the best things that we did is put little disposable cameras on the tables at the reception. We collected them at the end of the night and had them developed. There were some great shots (and a few disturbing ones) on the disposables that the pro missed.

      One thing that I worry about with a pro that keeps the rights is they may only give you the photos that they liked. If any were really bad you will never see them. We had a few photos that were not very good, but captured a particularly important event.

    4. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by blurfus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That may be so (the way I explained it in my brief post)

      However, the principle is there. Photographers are no more the 'creators' of the products than NBC airing a game on their network. NBC *purchases* the rights to broadcast the game (and make money by selling ads). NBC owns the rights to their broadcast (because they paid for it) but does not own the game itself (the product). The league owns the products.

      I figured is about the same here. I own everything I create (including my wedding, which I pay for and participate it, and create). The photographer does not 'own' the broadcast of this product (because he has not paid for its rights). I am paying him to document it, but it's not his creation.

      A developer gets hired to do a piece of code. Most of the companies have a 'contract' indicating everything I create while under their salary belongs to them. I sign the contract, I get paid, they get to 'own' everything they contracted me to create for them. This is not to say I cannot use my professional experience while with them and use it to my advantage to find another contract, but I cannot take the product itself. That belongs to the client who paid for it.

      Maybe you can clarify where my logic fails (and maybe I will understand the laws better)

      Regards,

      --
      will work for Karma
    5. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by anaesthetica · · Score: 5, Interesting
      One guy even wanted to tell us that our relatives wouldn't be allowed to take pictures at our own fucking wedding! I can't imagine how someone would hire this guy; what kind of asshole is actually going to tell their guests they can't take pictures?

      Well, I'm not a professional photographer, but I have been the official wedding photographer twice now for family friends. My experience with "rival" photographers is uniformly negative. Since I myself am an amateur photographer, I don't really have any problem with random people taking their own pictures. But certain family members can really make your job impossible.

      For instance, the first wedding I shot, the groom's step-mother came with a camera of her own, and acted as if she were the wedding photographer. Nevermind that the family had paid for me to shoot all the official photos of the wedding and celebration. She was constantly getting in my shots, getting in between me and bride during procession, etc. Infuriating. When taking group photos, I would give directions (stand closer, turn this way, etc), and she would start giving her own directions. Unbelievable.

      If I were a professional photographer, I would certainly have a clause in my contract saying something very similar. If you hire me to be the photographer for the wedding, make sure that I am the photographer for the wedding. Having to deal with obnoxious relatives on a regular basis would be impossible.

    6. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by LetterJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem people buying wedding photography don't usually get is that, for most photographers, there's only 1-2 weddings per week they can shoot. That's because almost everyone gets married on Saturday afternoon. That'd be OK, except that a wedding's worth of photos need to be gone through, touched up, organized, proofs or other comparison method made up, sent out, process the incoming order and otherwise take up much more time afterward, all tied to the wedding on Saturday. Not to mention spending time at bridal shows, meeting with potential customers that don't sign, working on marketing and the rest of the non-billable portions of running a business. Combine that with couples that want the photographer to shoot the rehersal dinner and rehersal itself the night before and want that included in the package and you're left having to charge an entire week's worth of labor and materials to a single customer.

      Then, as a self-employed person, they need to effectively double the money they want to pay themselves to cover their own payroll taxes, unemployment insurance (mandatory in my state), etc. you have to charge the equivalent of $40/hour, just to make $40,000. But, almost no one gets married in Nov-March, so you have to compress it further if you want to make your living doing just weddings. Throw in another couple of weeks here and there where the couple breaks up and cancels and you don't get another booking and you're left only able to get billable clients for about 26 weeks per year.

      The end result is that you'd have to charge $3200 a wedding just to break even on the LABOR and still only make $40,000/yr, working weekends in addition to weekdays, dealing with people on one of the most stressful days possible, working without a safety net (just waiting to get sued because you "ruined" their once-in-a-lifetime-day and caused them major emotional distress).

      I started down this road a couple of years ago and, after running the numbers and doing about 4 weddings, I decided that to be worth the hassle, the expense in redundant equipment (the bride doesn't want to hear that your *only* 135mm portrait lens cracked on HER SPECIAL DAY) and extra crap like multiple tuxedos in your closet because couples insist that the photographer wear one too, I'd have to charge well over $5000 a wedding to do it. And, since "anyone can take pictures" and "you're only working 3 hours a week", no one except the really high end clients wants to pay $5000-$7500 for a basic wedding photo package. If it were in that price range, work for hire would be fine.

      However, quote $5000-$7500 for a wedding on a work-for hire basis, and you'll hear the whole working for 2-6 hours thing and they'll quickly do their own math and say, "No one's worth $2500/hr".

      So, photographers have relied on print purchases to spread that cost around a big. After all, if the album's "worth" $1400, if the proofs are $400, if the digital photos on DVD are $250 etc. then the remaining money doesn't seem as bad.

    7. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by RFINN · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I work in the photography field, so I might be able to offer a different perspective.

      Did you know that photographers who work for National Geogrpahic own their images, even if they appear in the magazine? They fought for that right in court and the Supreme Court sided with the little guy on this one - that being the photographer.

      Your contract as a programmer states explicitly that what you create on the job is owned by the company. But if you did not agree to that upfront, then anything you invented/created on the job would actually belong to you.

      You see - the NFL owns the game, but NBC owns the broadcast. You own the content of your wedding, but the photographer owns the images they created. Now, the NFL and NBC have certainly negociated something that is beneficial to both, otherwise the NFL takes its games to another network (which happens all the time). And likewise, you have the ability to negociate with your photographer over rights and find another one if the terms are not to your liking.

      What I do is offer prints as part of the package, and additional prints online at a reasonable charge, and at the same time the couple may purchase the "negatives" (a CD of the RAW images and full resolution processed JPEGs) along with the rights to do whatever. My charge for taking the photos + handing over the rights is still under the market price, however.

      Copyright law goes back decades protects the photographer to same way it protects freelance programmers and journalists. Organizations like AMPS and PPA have spent a lot of time, money, and effort defending the rights of photographers and other creators/inventors againsts the interests of large corporations. And if the average person could stick it to the photographer, then the large corporation can too as well as the creative programer.

      --
      -- Richard Finn http://www.random-seed.com/
    8. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by Jason1729 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      if you feel that $20 a print (or whatever is being charged) is to steep, have your friend take the photos at your wedding. but remember that these are the pictures that will be on your wall in 50 years, when you celebrate your anniversary. Exactly...but the point of this article is that if those pictures your friend takes actually look decent, you won't be able to get the printed to hang on your wall at all because "surely, some pro photographer took them since they look good, so if you print them, you're ripping him off.

    9. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by Surt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All of this seems to describe why you shouldn't build a business purely out of taking wedding pictures, rather than any sort of motivation actually to pay people foolish enough to try such large sums of money.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    10. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by iGN97 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      the flaw in your logic is easy to spot: obviously you create your own wedding, but you don't create the pictures.

      if your idea of good wedding pictures is something to "document" that something happened, might as well get anyone with a recent cellphone to do the job. "look, ma', i got married. here's me, here's the church."

      a good photographer doesn't just take photos, he makes photos.

      you'll see this the clearest during the formals. he'll take the happy couple to a place with a pleasant background. he'll make sure the sun isn't in their face, because he knows that sunlight isn't high quality light. he'll use a flash to lift facial shadows, often with a light modifier. he'll bring reflectors if needed to make sure there is enough light, possibly portable power with monoblocks, big ol' honkin' softboxes.

      and you probably won't end up with pictures where the happy couple is squinting, the sweat on there face pouring with overwhelming distracting backgrounds.

      a good photographer will do a lot to candids; chances are he knows how to spot them in a way people that don't care as much for photography as he does. maybe you won't be irritated that someone's arm is partially blocking a face. small stuff, but enough to make yourself go "that's a good picture".

      so first of all, your logic is flawed in that the photographs aren't the photographers creation.

      your developer analogy is valid. a developer goes into contract, just like you say. and so will most photographers, as this thread indicates. you can find photographers that will give you the copyright of the images. it all boils down to revenue model. everything has its price, and photography, like every other profession, has representatives that are overpriced.

      but you do not want a document on your mantlepiece, like the NBC-broadcast of that fourth touchdown. you want a piece of art. a creation, not a mere documentation.

    11. Re:Don't let your wedding photographer bully you! by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Funny

      We had a few photos that were not very good, but captured a particularly important event.

      Your wife getting boned by the best man?

  3. Example of a Rejected Photo by TPIRman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Adding insult to injury, the photofinishers refuse to give explicit guidelines as to what qualifies as "professional-looking" (in all likelihood there are no guidelines, of course). But an article in the San Diego Union-Tribune on this topic shows one customer's example of a photo rejected by Wal-Mart, alongside an equally good-looking photo that Wal-Mart, in its infinite wisdom, deemed amateurish enough to print.

  4. I wrote about this yesterday by cens0r · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the wedding photographer is giving out the 8 megapixel versions of the images on CD, then they're just stupid. If a person has a CD that has 8 megapixel pictures on it, chances are good that they took them themselves.

    --
    Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
  5. I Know by sammykrupa · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Your Digital Photos Are Too Professional"

    Yes, I know. Thank you.

  6. Paiin by COMON$ · · Score: 3, Interesting
    My dad takes photos for Seniors in High school who cannot afford a professional photographer. He started getting better than the Professionals and when he went to get his photos developed he had to jump through a lot of hoops convincing the store clerks that he was legit.

    So are we trying to squash small business here or what? if you are a professional and dont digitally sign your photos then that is your fault.

    --
    CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
  7. Hrmm by axonal · · Score: 5, Funny

    All the Walmarts I've been to denied the pictures from my honeymoon. I guess they must be some really good professional pictures.

    1. Re:Hrmm by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think it had more to do with the midgets, the trapeze and the leather restraining harness.
      Not all employees want to see your "personal preferences".

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
  8. safety. by ShaniaTwain · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ..and yet you can still buy knives, hammers, pillows and other dangerous object that could be used to KILL someone. I guess full and complete protection of 'intellectual property' is more important than full and complete protection of human life.

    Or maybe, just maybe we dont need everything to be protected?

  9. Why is it the printer's responsibility? by bwalling · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I sign something claiming ownership of the image, why are they liable? They have no way of actually knowing, and couldn't reasonbly be expected to do so. To expect the printer to be the enforcer is only creating a point of friction between the printer and their customers. This just seems so black and white obvious to me.

    1. Re:Why is it the printer's responsibility? by donutello · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because the current US tort system allows you to sue the person with the biggest pockets regardless of who holds the biggest responsibility for damages. Homeowner shoots burglar? Sue the gun company.

      --
      Mmmm.. Donuts
    2. Re:Why is it the printer's responsibility? by spiritraveller · · Score: 4, Informative

      If I sign something claiming ownership of the image, why are they liable?

      Because that's what the copyright code says.

      It's strict liability. As long as you are copying copyrighted material, Congress doesn't care whether you knew it was copyrighted or not.

      Maybe this will spur Congress to reform the copyright code... NOT!

  10. Let's all time travel back... by neonfrog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... to the invention of the photocopier.

    Remember when you went to a Staples or Kinkos and they wouldn't let you photocopy lots of things because they *might* be copyrighted works? Remember when you had to jump through hoops to prove that you were photocopying a book segment for a school book report?

    Fast forward to today. No problem anymore. They just refer you to the Self Serve copiers with the "Don't Copy Illegally" signs and look the other way while you make your own Oxford Englsh Dictionary at 5 cents a page.

    This will be a ridiculously short-lived phenomenon for two single word reasons:

    * Kiosks

    * O-foto (that's not really a word...)

    --

    I'm thinking about it, therefore I might be.

  11. Proof of Ownership by dos4who · · Score: 3, Informative

    RE:"There's no well-supported digital equivalent to a negative"

    While it's not absolute proof of ownership, most digital formats these days include a specification called EXIF. (Google for "EXIF" or see http://www.exif.org/ for more info).
    The extraneous information in a digital photo containg EXIF data includes such information as Make & model of camera, etc. While such information is not absolute, it can, in a pinch, providde reasonable proof of ownership, as long as you can show you own the equipment specified, and that all the images point to your equipment.

    --
    "Yes, I have a Disaster Recovery Plan. It's called my Resume"
  12. DRM by RickPartin · · Score: 3, Funny

    I can't wait till they start DRM'ing film. You have developed this film more than one time. Please call this activation hotline you god damn pirate. Thank you

  13. On the other foot by Boing · · Score: 3, Funny
    I'm afraid I can no longer purchase movies or cds from Wal-mart, because for all I know they're just well done bootlegs. I've got to "err on the side of protecting copyrights", after all.

    Same thing with other Wal-mart products, I'm afraid... I can't be sure that they're not violating the trademark protections of Coca-cola by packaging a knockoff as The Real Thing (tm).

  14. Dear Wal*Mart by IvyMike · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You're a behemoth corporation with more money than I can imagine. Why don't you throw some of that weight and money around and take a stand against these bullshit laws? Fight the lawsuits in court to establsh a set of sane legal precidents, and promote a new "common-carrier printer status" law.

    Not only because it's the right thing to do, but because by being sissies, you're undercutting your future sales.

    Signed,
    Everybody

  15. Re:Piracy by OhPlz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I had something like that happen at a Quebec to Vermont border crossing. I was in my early 20's driving a brand new (gasp) SUV. The US BP agent was certain I couldn't own such a vehicle. She even hesitated to accept the temporary registration and title application as proof (I hadn't registered it yet).

    There's too many busy-bodies and not enough MYOB sense.

    Why would Martmart even be the victim of a lawsuit? They acted on a request of a customer, if the customer ordered a reprint of a copywritten work THEY should be the guilty party. Without an absolute way of verifying copyright status it's absurd to hold Martmart responsible.

  16. Re:Stipulations? by VidEdit · · Score: 5, Informative

    A stipulation where? Not in copyright law. Copyright does not allow you rights to reproduce "orphan" works such as wedding photographers--at least in the US. This problem is much bigger than Walmart. Ironically copyright law *presumes* that the person who commissioned the work owns the copyright, therefore if you or your relatives are in the photos it is reasonable to assume that the copyright belongs to you regardless of who took the pictures. Professional photographers try to turn copyright law on its head and make clients sign contracts saying that the work for hire is not work for hire and that the photographer owns all rights to your photographs. The first thing is to never agree to give up copyright to a photographer. Remember, if there is no written contract to the contrary, any photography you commission is copyright by *you*, regardless of whether the photographer tries to write "proof" or copyright by so and so. If this wasn't' the case, those pictures you ask strangers to take of you on vacation wouldn't belong to you either. At least one European country has a law saying that you have a right to reproduce pictures of yourself or of dead relatives. We need such a law to make sure that our heritage isn't locked up by silly copyrights.

    --
  17. Solution to this very problem by Giant+Killer · · Score: 3, Informative

    My brother-in-law had this very problem recently at Costco. After arguing with the person, he eventually had to fill out all sorts of silly paperwork to get them to let him print his own damn work. Just because he's got a good eye and a decent camera (Digital Rebel rocks with the kit lens, folks) they told him the images must have been done by a professional. A compliment of sorts, but quite an annoying one.

    Like others have said, PRINT ONLINE. There are some great services out there, and if you know exactly what you're looking for you can get a good deal. My favorite for amateur photos is currently Mpix.com. They have a great turnaround time, but more importantly, they have metallic paper. If any of you have noticed those crazy cool silver gelatin prints in museums, this gives that same sort of effect. Looks great for black and whites, but especially amazing with reds, blues, and yellows. They also have this cool continuous tone black and white paper (regular digital prints won't give this). Their prices are good, too.

    If you're looking to do real work somewhere in the semi-pro realm, there's really only one choice: White House Custom Color. This place is for real. You don't just open up an account and upload photos. This place has you fill out a client questionnaire and then they send you samples of their stuff. The coolest thing they have, which I've not seen anywhere else, is linen textured paper (you'll have to read through one of the PDF's).

    If you need something local and same day, Walgreens is great. They almost always have some sort of a special each week, and I ended up paying $.19 for each 4x6 the last time I was there. The color might not be spot on, but it is same day service. Shipping and tax end up balancing out in the end. Not bad at all.

  18. Re:You've got to be kidding! by dangerweasel · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In reference to your printer comment, wasn;t there an article just the other day about rising ink prices? I don't think they will ever pay for themselves...

    I work in a professional photo lab and we saw this print your own trend in our professional clients. They would go out and buy some fancy-ass Epson printer and try to print their own work, only to discover what a righteous pain in the ass it can be. From color issues to problems with the original image (going to a "professional" photographer does NOT guarantee a "professional" image) there is a minefield of places that things can go wrong.

    PS. Pro's are also getting there work printed at the discount places right along side you, and still trying to charge $10 or even $20 dollars for a 4x6 print they paid $0.29 for. They are well deserved to be in the list of over paid profession. Plus they have to be about the whiniest people I have ever had the misfortune of dealing with.

    I never said this. I was not here.

  19. I work in a Wal-Mart photo lab. by apathyruiner · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We have plenty of pro photographers use our services for both proofs and a few for their final products. Others just get us to make a CD from their film. We also have a number of amateurs that use us. (and for those of you snickering at the idea of pros using Wally World, we have Fuji Frontiers, look them up, and I at least know how to use it)
    All I have to do to determine the authenticity is have a look at their source. After a little practice you can determine most scanned images from an original digital file. There's also EXIF in the originals. Most pros and amateurs just bring in their CF card and most of the happy snappy crowd doesn't know how to use a card reader. And if you are a pro and give your customers non-watermarked hi-res CDs I take that to mean you give them full release. Many photographers do just that.

    Sorry for the rather disjointed comment, I'm home on lunch and time is limited! ;)

    If you're in Taylors SC and need inexpensive quality prints, just come see William. :)

    --
    -= I can't think of anything witty, creative, or insightful for my sig, so deal with this. =-
  20. Skip WalMart, use Costco by neile · · Score: 3, Informative

    Costco is more than happy to take your semi-pro or pro shots and print them. In fact, they specifically do things to cater to pro-sumers and independent professional photographers: each and every one of Costco's digital printers are profiled every six months. The profiles are made available on the web at Dry Creek Photo so you can have a completely colour-managed workflow.

    The best part is the price :) Costco's largest size, 12"x18", is only $2.99 a copy, and they look stunning. I have six hanging in my office right now and people are shocked when I tell them where they were printed.

    Neil

  21. Re:Stipulations? by Jherek+Carnelian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How can you possibly think that the photographer does not own the copyright to work HE/SHE created?

    How can you possibly think that the buyer does not own the copyright to work HE/SHE paid for?

    You really need to learn what "work for hire" means.

  22. Re:Sillyness by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Then think up a new term than "intellectual property," but the concept is solid.

    No it's not. It's just a way of forcing people to pay more for a service/product than they are willing to pay in a free market.

    Anything that requires substantial investment to develop and has value to people should have a system whereby that investment can be recouped.

    A lot of the crap being passed as "intellectual property" nowadays didn't require much of an investment - however, even if something DOES require a substantial investment to develop, the value of that "thing" is NOT set by the seller - it is set by what people are willing to pay to get it in a free market. If you can't get people to pay a certain amount to get something in a free market, then it isn't worth that amount.

    And I don't think it's a coincidence that the countries that allow invention to be rewarded in this manner are the ones that tend to do better.

    Really? You got some studies to back this up? All of the historical studies that I've read indicate that the U.S. became as economically successful as it is today by riding roughshod over European "intellectual property" concerns. China is getting rich & still growing during tough times by pretty much ignoring "intellectual property" laws (except for some lip service).

    It seems more like developed countries try to encumber competitor countries by getting to them to go along with "intellectual property" laws (either by bribing or threatening them). Developing countries which ignore those intellectual property laws often end up with economies which go like gangbusters (except for economy-destroying scenarios like massive corruption).

    So give me a few examples of countries that have benefited by passing laws which restrict the ability of their citizens to innovate (which is exactly what "intellectual property" laws do).