After College, What Type of Jobs Should One Seek?

Sushant Bhatia asks: "I'm coming to the end of my Masters degree, and I'm on the prowl for jobs. However, there are so many types out there it's just overwhelming for someone who's never had to go through the job-hunting process before. So, what should I do? Should I go for a full-time, contract, half-time, or something else? Also, what kind of position should a person with a Master's in Computer Science be looking for (other than dish washer)? I've been looking at senior software developer positions, but is that too high up the ladder for someone 'fresh' to cope with? My current manager (research lab) says that 'You should always find a job that is above your skill level so that you can learn and be challenged.' I think he's right, but is that something Slashdot readers agree with? What was your job coming out of university?"

Comments

Master's in Computer Science, eh?

[Average_Joe_Sixpack]

I hear Wal-Mart is always looking for shelf stockers

Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh?

[zapp]

Not to nitpick, but BS is Batchelor of Science

You mean a BA (Batchelor of Arts)..

unless of course, you mean bullshit degree ;)

Re:Master's in Computer Science, eh?

[the MaD HuNGaRIaN]

"Actually Wal-Mart has a very advanced inventory management system. Headquarters knows within minutes when you buy a candy bar even."

So I've read....

But, let me fill you in on the reality.

Christmas eve a few years back. I needed a Jeep Wrangler Power Wheels last minute. I'd heard of the legendary Wal-Mart inventory management system, so I figure a phone call and all would be well.

So, I called the closest store, and they said they didn't have any left (big surprise on Christmas eve). But never fear, the next closest store has 3 in stock.

So, I truck on over there only to find that not only do they have none, but they haven't seen any for a week--or so said the manager of the department. In disbelief, I combed the aisles looking for the three they supposedly in stock. I gave up after 20 minutes of wandering the garden section (Which is where they keep the excess stock of that stuff).

On my way home, I drove passed the Wal-Mart that I had originally called and figured I'd stop in to look at their power wheels selection to see what they had left in Silverados and what not, as being the newest Super Wal-Mart in my area, they had the biggest selection. When I walked in, there it was sitting in the middle of the aisle, a Jeep Wrangler Power Wheels.

An employee asked me if I was finding everything ok, so I asked them why I was told that they had none in stock when this was sitting right here in plain view.

He looked at the box, and looked at me and said, "well, this here was supposed to have been delivered to another store. But I guess the driver forgot to drop it there, so it ended up here, 'cuz he didn't want to return to the dock with it in his truck still. We're the last store on his route so that happens all the time."

So, there you have it. The system might be designed to work a certain way, but it's only as strong as the people involved.

Sit over here, sonny.

[Anonymous Coward]

Straight goods:

There's always a need for network people and sysadmins. With the shift from Windows/Proprietary Unix to Linux/*BSD you should concentrate on jobs in those areas, they're booming (I get at least 2 offers a month). If you stick to the Windows side of things you're going to be in a rut of helping users reboot and install patches. If you stick to proprietary Unix you can still do well in some high end research or data center work but cheap clusters are eating the bottom end out of some of that market.

Don't expect a senior position. Frankly too many hot-shot grads think they're The Goods; NONE are. If you can't translate your book smarts to real world work then you're destined to a life at a help desk.

That's how it is around here (I'm based in SoCal with work in 8 data centers around the country and 4 internationally) and I've been in the field since 1988.

Re:Sit over here, sonny.

[Hadley]

You really don't *want* a senior position. Even if you can negotiate the higher salary, make sure you get a job title without "Senior" in it. That way, if you're any good at your job, you can get an easy promotion and raise soon after you join.

Also, you need to work a permanent job for a couple of years before you've got enough experience to do contracting.

If your goal is to do contract work, the ideal job might be with a services company that takes you on as a permanent member of staff, and then contracts you out to their clients.

Re:Sit over here, sonny.

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Don't expect a senior position. Frankly too many hot-shot grads think they're The Goods; NONE are.

That's not entirely fair (though it mostly is). I've met people who've had enough experience by the time they graduated to understand the real world, and whose talent/enthusiasm/hard work would make them the equals of an average programmer several years into their career (though probably still not an average person getting a senior developer position). This is particularly true of those who've taken placements lasting a few months during their academic careers, or a year out before university, and thus worked in a professional environment for a worthwhile period.

However, your actual ability doesn't really matter much, because image is everything when applying for a job, and you'll be very lucky to find a company that's employing new grads and willing to take a chance that someone who looks that good really is, because as you say, most won't be. It's far more likely that they'd make a relatively good offer for a starting post, and then say nice things and promote rapidly (in salary, if not in job title) over the first couple of years as the greater ability shows through.

Applying for a senior developer position, which usually requires around 5 years of experience, without any prior experience at all will be a direct route to the bin in almost any company I can think of. Larger companies could easily filter you in the HR database before a human even saw your resume. Even at the smaller ones who review CVs by human eye, you'll need an exceptional application to attract enough attention that they'll consider you as a new starter instead, and the ego demonstrated by being a grad applying for a senior position right off would be a major black mark for anyone reviewing CVs I've ever met.

Something's Wrong Here

[Anonymous Coward]

You just got a Master's degree, and you come to slashdot for career advice?

Most people here are kids working at McDonald's or aging, overweight geeks living in their parents basement.

My advice, listen to all the +5 comments, and do the exact opposite.

Re:Something's Wrong Here

[grub]

My advice, listen to all the +5 comments, and do the exact opposite.

I really hope your comment gets to +5. The connundrum of doing the opposite of the opposite will make his head explode.

Re:Something's Wrong Here

[mspohr]

"There's a fourth story about me that I decided to omit from this talk. It has to do with the many people in my life whom I've cheated, abused and otherwise screwed on my rise to fame and riches. You may be wondering, How can a guy who comes across as so thoughtful and caring in a speech like this be such a jerk in person? ... Well, there's a very simple reason: I've always put money and power ahead of people."

"So when a worshipping blogger posts a product rumor I don't like, I sue him. When a book gets written I don't appreciate, I have it banned from stores. And why do I do this? Because a fawning media and corrupt power structure let me get away with it. Because when I stand up here and spout revisionist treacle about fonts and calligraphy and my role in being first with the Macintosh, people like you believe it. And it gets reported and reprinted without challenge."

"So when I look in the mirror each morning and think about whether it's my last day on earth, I also say to myself, "Just in case it isn't, I better make sure I take care of No. 1." And I guess the lesson to you as you make your way through life is, Don't cross me, or I'll crush you. And nobody will be around to stick up for you while I do it. They'll all be too busy applauding my bogus life lessons while thinking, "What a guy!""

-- Seattle Times Columnist Paul Andrews re-writes Steve Jobs' Stanford commencement speech

Learn to spell and punctuate, for one thing

[ky11x]

It's "Master's," not "Masters." See wikipedia entry.

It doesn't look particularly impressive on a resume if you can't even write your educational credentials correctly. Yes, these are small things, but we are nerds, and for nerds small things like this matter. If we weren't obsessive about details, our programs wouldn't compile, and we wouldn't be who we are.

Re:Learn to spell and punctuate, for one thing

[mpupu]

If we weren't obsessive about details, our programs wouldn't compile, and we wouldn't be who we are.

Luckily, English isn't a compiled language. It's interpreted, and the intepreter's syntax is usually quite lax.

...probably the moderation system...

[abb3w]

My advice, listen to all the +5 comments, and do the exact opposite.

Of course, Slashdot moderation being what it is, the parent will probably end up with a +5 moderation, and then what do you do?

You are askign the worng question

[pointyhairedmba]

You're asking the wrong question. You should first sit down and ask yourself what interests you and what you would enjoy doing for a living. Maybe you dig airplanes so you want to get a job working on the computer systems on new planes from Boeing. Or maybe you like security software so go find a job at Symantec. You get the point.

After you've figured out what interests you, go talk to alumni from your school who work in the industry you're heading into. Ask them how they like their job, what salary expectatios you should have with your experience etc.

Whatever you end up doing, make sure you enjoy it. Good luck job hunting! I hope you land somewhere interesting and enjoyable.

Re:Why enter the real world?

[gangien]

why? i graduated in march with a BS in CS (math minor too). with a 2.5 gpa, no references really or any industry experience and only applied for jobs online. Now in june i'm an official software engineer making good money. The irony is how much i listened to slashdot's gloomy idea of the real world was considering doing something else outside the computer industry because there was no jobs for me (as you would believe by reading slashdot). Not that it was easy for me to get this job, but it wasn't the only response i got to my resume. Course I also think I got pretty lucky.

So my personal advice is to try and do what you like and not get disappointed over being rejected. And I think people in masses tend to be pessimists.. so take what they (slashdot) say witha grain of salt.

Re:Why enter the real world?

[b17bmbr]

so, how's the weather in Calcutta?

Re:One step at a time!

[sitkill]

From a person who just went through a hiring phase for two programming positions (one senior, one junior), and wading through the over 200+ resume we did recieve, the only advice i can give you: 1. Don't assume you are qualified for a senior position if you don't have the experience to justify it. Most companies will look for relevant experience versus schooling (not always the case but...) 2. A full time position is always better (and will reflect better on your resume) than any amount of contract work or part time work you did (assuming what type of contract work of course). Companies like to see long term employment. 3. From a lower end position, a master's degree won't help you versus a normal bachlors degree. What you should look out for is the chance to really have an opportunity to make that masters degree work for you. That usually wont happen right away. 4. A position in a researching environment has really good potential of rising up that fabled "ladder" with a masters degree. Of course, a reseraching position will never pay as much as one in the "industry". I'd honestly, like pete said, get your foot in the ladder, and start climbing. Just find a ladder you actually want to climb is the most important thing :)

Entry level because...

[Anonymous Coward]

...believe it or not, real-world experience is very different than academic experience.

I have a great deal of real-world experience now, and a degree as well. When I graduated, I started at entry-level positions and worked my way up. It works.

Recently, I worked with a guy who had a masters in computer science from a well-known accredited state college. And he wasn't an idiot. However, he also wasn't ready for the real world. His troubleshooting thought process needed a great deal of refinement, and his ability to deliver the kind of requirements necessary in the kinds of time-frames necessary just wasn't up to par (yet). During the year that I worked with him, I saw his skills improve (as one would expect). In another several years, he may be senior-position material. But not until he has the experience under his belt.

I am not saying college is easy, nor that the education is valueless. I AM saying that graduates, precisely because of their lack of experience, have an unrealistically high opinion of their own abilities, and often make the sorts of costly (and embarrassing) mistakes that more experienced programmers don't make.

So there's my opinion.

Re:Be agressive.

[jeko]

Let me apologize up front for how vehemently I'm going to disagree with you.

No. I mean no. For the love of God, No! Have you lost your bloody mind?! NO!

Don't. Ever. Work. For. Free. You might as well wear a sandwich board that reads "My time is worthless and I'm so naive that I believe an idea put forth by suits looking to recruit cheap, easily-abused labor. I'm beyond desperate, so please, pay me some lowball chump change."

Take a lesson from the marketers. People honestly believe that a thing is worth what you paid for it. If you ever work for someone for free, you'll never convince them to pay top dollar for your services.

You wouldn't believe how much my life has improved since I learned to look them right in the ye without blinking and say "You're right. I compete on quality, not price. To be honest, these are my prices if I design and implement. If I have to go through the headache of fixing someone else's mistakes, I charge a 20% premium."

You'd be amazed at how that one little statement/attitude improves your world. You never have to deal with those neurotic not-worth-the-trouble PITA clients, and the rest come to the job with a "he's expensive, he must know what he's doing" mentality.

So long as you can deliver the goods, it's a far more satisfying way to run your business.

Steve Jobs just talked about this at Stanford

[ScaredSilly]

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/ jobs-061505

Re:Learn people skills

[innocent_white_lamb]

The only thing cheaper than french fries in a resturant is the soda pop.

Depends on whether it's bottled, premix or postmix.

Some very small restaurants purchase their soda pop in either single-serving cans or bottles (quite expensive) or 2 liter bottles (slightly cheaper).

Most restaurants use either premix or postmix. Premix is, as the word suggests, pre-mixed with water at the bottling plant. It costs about 10x as much as postmix but it tastes a lot better. Chain restaurants and whatnot use postmix where a syrup is mixed with water on-site. This is the cheapest but least "tasty" option. The contents of cup of postmix costs very little; the cup costs something though.