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After College, What Type of Jobs Should One Seek?
Sushant Bhatia asks: "I'm coming to the end of my Masters degree, and I'm on the prowl for jobs. However, there are so many types out there it's just overwhelming for someone who's never had to go through the job-hunting process before. So, what should I do? Should I go for a full-time, contract, half-time, or something else? Also, what kind of position should a person with a Master's in Computer Science be looking for (other than dish washer)? I've been looking at senior software developer positions, but is that too high up the ladder for someone 'fresh' to cope with? My current manager (research lab) says that 'You should always find a job that is above your skill level so that you can learn and be challenged.' I think he's right, but is that something Slashdot readers agree with? What was your job coming out of university?"
I hear Wal-Mart is always looking for shelf stockers
Straight goods:
There's always a need for network people and sysadmins. With the shift from Windows/Proprietary Unix to Linux/*BSD you should concentrate on jobs in those areas, they're booming (I get at least 2 offers a month). If you stick to the Windows side of things you're going to be in a rut of helping users reboot and install patches. If you stick to proprietary Unix you can still do well in some high end research or data center work but cheap clusters are eating the bottom end out of some of that market.
Don't expect a senior position. Frankly too many hot-shot grads think they're The Goods; NONE are. If you can't translate your book smarts to real world work then you're destined to a life at a help desk.
That's how it is around here (I'm based in SoCal with work in 8 data centers around the country and 4 internationally) and I've been in the field since 1988.
I hear a P.h.D is nice this time of year. Put off entering the "real world" as long as possible.
Be better in bed. Wikiafterdark!
Most people here are kids working at McDonald's or aging, overweight geeks living in their parents basement.
My advice, listen to all the +5 comments, and do the exact opposite.
I think you should be very careful - I can't imagine many companies wanting to hire a fresh graduate into a Senior position, there are a lot of experienced professionals out there looking for work, and all the graduates are generally looking to step into a junior software developer positions.
If you aim for unrealistic goals, then you must be prepared to fail, if you do want to go for the senior positions on the off-chance you hit lucky, make sure you also apply for the junior positions elsewhere.
To be honest, just working in a corporate environment should be a challenging learning experience for most graduates, it's completely different to how you will have worked in college. Once you have mastered the basic work-place skills and proven your worth then you will be in a position to move on to more challenging roles.
I would agree that it is best to find a job that you will learn in and be challenged, but the way to do this is to have a lot of applications out there, a number of offers in the bag after interviews, then you choose the most interesting/challenging one. Don't be afraid of accepting positions as they come in, and then "resigning" them before starting if you get a better offer from another company. the companies are pretty strict on making sure they have the right candidate out of many, and if you get the opportunity then you should make sure you pick the best company out of many.
Get your first foot on the ladder, then set your own pace for progression - be on the lookout for stagnation though, if you find yourself getting bogged down in a position, bored and unchallenged, go shopping for a new job.
Hope that helps!
-- Pete.
Monochrome - Probably the UK's largest internet BBS
That's the key, and a degree doesn't help you much. A degree gives an employer a fair indication that you have a decent level of knowledge and can work reasonably hard. But it doesn't tell them that you'll be able to plan a software project or write code that's easy to maintain.
If you apply for a job and they have a choice between you and someone with more real world experience, odds are pretty good they won't choose you. So, fresh out of college, your choices are limited. Basically, check the job listings and apply for anything which isn't asking for more experience than you've got. There are other things to consider, of course, but that's the major one. They pretty much have to be looking for a fresh graduate.
It's "Master's," not "Masters." See wikipedia entry.
It doesn't look particularly impressive on a resume if you can't even write your educational credentials correctly. Yes, these are small things, but we are nerds, and for nerds small things like this matter. If we weren't obsessive about details, our programs wouldn't compile, and we wouldn't be who we are.
Of course, Slashdot moderation being what it is, the parent will probably end up with a +5 moderation, and then what do you do?
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
And don't forget that most people want extra ketchup packets. I hate it when I order fries and they put two dinky ketchup packets in the bag. It makes me wonder just what is going on in our colleges these days.
"OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
You're asking the wrong question. You should first sit down and ask yourself what interests you and what you would enjoy doing for a living. Maybe you dig airplanes so you want to get a job working on the computer systems on new planes from Boeing. Or maybe you like security software so go find a job at Symantec. You get the point.
After you've figured out what interests you, go talk to alumni from your school who work in the industry you're heading into. Ask them how they like their job, what salary expectatios you should have with your experience etc.
Whatever you end up doing, make sure you enjoy it. Good luck job hunting! I hope you land somewhere interesting and enjoyable.
Gaining information is an important step in making a decision. Asking Slashdot is an easy way to do that.
The first question you may need to answer is whether learning is your favorite hobby. If so, then go get a challenging job and join the corporate rat race. Keep in mind that the larger your company and division, the more backstabbing and politics you'll deal with.
If learning isn't your favorite hobby, then put together a list of all the stuff you like to do. Do you like to travel? Mountain bike? Scuba dive? If that's what you enjoy, then go work in that field. Believe it or not, you can find good-paying tech jobs (or just about anything else) in each of those areas. If you like to travel, look on Lonely Planet's web site for jobs. If you like to ride bikes, then check out the website of a bike manufacturer to see if they're hiring.
I worked for a small company for about 3 years and had a lot of fun doing sys admin work. It was a great learning experience and at that point in my life I enjoyed learning just about more than anything.
Then I decided I'd go skiing. Now I get paid to work for a ski resort doing IT work. In the winter I get anywhere between 40 - 100 days of skiing in. I'm actually sort of getting bored of skiing now, so I'm thinking sitting on a beach in Thailand is what I'll do. I just need to get paid for it.
You'll also need to weigh whether the greed of $$$ will override where you want to live. Ideally you'll live and work exactly where you want to. However, you might be tempted to move across the country to a place you hate just to make money.
----- obSig
...believe it or not, real-world experience is very different than academic experience.
I have a great deal of real-world experience now, and a degree as well. When I graduated, I started at entry-level positions and worked my way up. It works.
Recently, I worked with a guy who had a masters in computer science from a well-known accredited state college. And he wasn't an idiot. However, he also wasn't ready for the real world. His troubleshooting thought process needed a great deal of refinement, and his ability to deliver the kind of requirements necessary in the kinds of time-frames necessary just wasn't up to par (yet). During the year that I worked with him, I saw his skills improve (as one would expect). In another several years, he may be senior-position material. But not until he has the experience under his belt.
I am not saying college is easy, nor that the education is valueless. I AM saying that graduates, precisely because of their lack of experience, have an unrealistically high opinion of their own abilities, and often make the sorts of costly (and embarrassing) mistakes that more experienced programmers don't make.
So there's my opinion.
Let me apologize up front for how vehemently I'm going to disagree with you.
No. I mean no. For the love of God, No! Have you lost your bloody mind?! NO!
Don't. Ever. Work. For. Free. You might as well wear a sandwich board that reads "My time is worthless and I'm so naive that I believe an idea put forth by suits looking to recruit cheap, easily-abused labor. I'm beyond desperate, so please, pay me some lowball chump change."
Take a lesson from the marketers. People honestly believe that a thing is worth what you paid for it. If you ever work for someone for free, you'll never convince them to pay top dollar for your services.
You wouldn't believe how much my life has improved since I learned to look them right in the ye without blinking and say "You're right. I compete on quality, not price. To be honest, these are my prices if I design and implement. If I have to go through the headache of fixing someone else's mistakes, I charge a 20% premium."
You'd be amazed at how that one little statement/attitude improves your world. You never have to deal with those neurotic not-worth-the-trouble PITA clients, and the rest come to the job with a "he's expensive, he must know what he's doing" mentality.
So long as you can deliver the goods, it's a far more satisfying way to run your business.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I think that's optimistic. In some industries, it may well be true, but not computing. In this business, you take a guy with two years' professional development experience over a guy with two more years' academic experience for any non-research development position, because the proven track record and practical skills easily outweigh the same length of time invested in research and theoretical skills.
Higher degrees are good if you want to do research, or as a possible advantage later in your career, but everyone starts on the first rung or two of the ladder. As the parent post suggests, you're never getting up to the senior rungs right from the start no matter how good your academic record may be.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/ jobs-061505
The only thing cheaper than french fries in a resturant is the soda pop.
Depends on whether it's bottled, premix or postmix.
Some very small restaurants purchase their soda pop in either single-serving cans or bottles (quite expensive) or 2 liter bottles (slightly cheaper).
Most restaurants use either premix or postmix. Premix is, as the word suggests, pre-mixed with water at the bottling plant. It costs about 10x as much as postmix but it tastes a lot better. Chain restaurants and whatnot use postmix where a syrup is mixed with water on-site. This is the cheapest but least "tasty" option. The contents of cup of postmix costs very little; the cup costs something though.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!