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Rugged Mini-DV Camcorder for the Road?
step asks: "As part of my job, I (and my colleagues) spend weeks at a time on the road, doing science shows for high school students. To review our work, we carry DV camcorders to tape and watch our performances. Unfortunately, all the previous models we've tried haven't lasted more than 12 months on the road (and not from lack of care). When returned for repair we were told that they weren't faulty, just not up to the task.
We don't need a full feature camera, just solid reliable recording and playback. In fact, simple is probably better to accommodate the most users.
What experience has Slashdot had with camcorders? What's a good model that can handle lots of travel?"
http://www.ev1.pair.com/colorTV/myTK41_1.html
You can probably find one for less than $2000 now. Maybe even closer to $1200-1500 used in good condition. Great, great camcorder.
I have been looking for a good DV cam to use for a long time, but I didn't want to use miniDV, I want to use flash ram. Recently Panasonic has come out with a whole line of them that use SD cards, but they're a little pricey, and you can't get much video at DVD quality on one SD card. I don't know about the durability of the hardware, but at least this option would take out all of the mechanics.
You talk better than you fool!
Unfortunately I do not know of very many rugged mini dv cameras. The high quality camera designed for being beaten up are generally Betacam or DVCAM professional cameras for News stations and such. Its unfortunate that no company has come out with a "Toughbook" camera, but nice compromises can be found. Naturally the rule with consumer and prosumer camcorders is the bigger they are the harder they fall and more stuff they break. I personally own a JVC HD1U camcorder that is great, its has a steel handle on top so you can lug it around much easier and safer. I've had problems with cheap consumer Sony Cameras going bad after a jolt or two. My advice, go to Best Buy or whatever flavor of electronics megamart you prefer, and bang on some of the display models for a while. You'll get some funny looks, but that will be the best way to see what cameras are up to the task.
The Property of One's : "The Oneitude is directly proportional to the Colditude of the one." - S.B.
You didn't say what exactly the problem was with the camera you had. If it was build quality, tape mechanism problems, dirt getting in the case, etc. You might consider checking out the JVC hard-drive based line of camcorders. I see it as the next natural progression in camcorders to get rid of the overly complicated tape loading mechanism. They're pricey but they're VERY cool.. look for the JVC Everio GZMC200.. 4 gig drive, 10x optical zoom, 2 megapixels. I want. :)
It can be had on Ebay for $600 package deals.
Most skydivers and other extreme sports types have cameras these days. I have a (now old) Sony PC9 which I have helmet mounted (oo-err) and has survived quite a lot of jumping, skidoo riding, heli-boarding (-30c) and general snow boarding.
It has finally started giving me grief however, not at the tape transport, but the auto-focus mechanism (which sometimes sticks).
My advice would be to post a polite note on a skydiving forum and find out what people there recommend.
Good luck.
Given the reasonable price of Mini-DV camcorders, you'd be better off purchasing two or three identical units and rotate their use. If something fails you can pull out the backup. You might also find it useful to record your work from different positions and edit them together.
Since you asked, I've had good experience with a hand-sized Sony DCR-PC9 -- it's been beat up but remains completely functional and reliable.
-- Gary Goldberg KA3ZYW 301/249-6501 AIM:OgGreeb Digital Marketing Inc., Bowie, MD
No offense meant to anyone, it's just that Slashdot is the worst place I've been for audio visual advices. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the only professionnal here but we are few and our words often get lost in the sea of audio and video wannabees that speaks well and hence look like the real deal.
I've heard some of the worst misconception about audio and video on these forum spoken as if they were the mother of all truth and moderated +5 something because of it.
Anyways, In my experience the Panasonic AG-DVX100AP is a very good camera for the price and it's very sturdy, we are using it for coorporate events and music shows where we need to do a lot of travelling shots or if we need to move a lot between shots since it's light, hold pretty well and has a very good picture, the quality is surprising, then again it's a 3CCD camera if I remember well so it does help. As for extra sturdiness use a road case with internal padding, you know those case that are reinforced with metal, are usually black and are kept close with those cool twist-latches, they are expensive but they are also worth it.
Solution? Buy a mid-priced one at Best Buy, along with the extended warranty. If you're likely to need it (and you likely will), the extended warranty is a bargain. My first two Sony MiniDV cams both failed just after a year. The Best Buy extended warranty will cover it for four years.
Yes, you will have to let them repair it if it breaks, which can take a couple of weeks. But the $200 you spend on the extended warranty is less than the $260 that Sony will charge you for a repair after the first year. Also, you may be able to get the manager to simply replace the product with a new model that sells for the original purchase price--especially if you have to bring the camcorder back more than once. As an added bonus, the extended warranty does cover the battery, should it need replacing.
Yeah, yeah. I know there are a lot of people who hate Best Buy. And yeah, for the most part, the extended warranties are a rip off. But I've found that for some reason, MiniDV cameras are extremely prone to breaking, and this is the best solution that I've found for the problem.
Sorry to break it to you, but you are not going to get a consumer product which lasts for more than a year under regular use unless you are very, very lucky - and I do mean luck.
Consumer products are designed to break so that you'll buy a new version a short time down the road. That's why all consumer products should be considered an expendable good. Surprise! Most new companies come out with a new product version at least anually - perfect timing for designed obsolecense!
If you want something that's rugged and repairable, you're going to have to purchase a device that costs enough to make repairing it economical for both you and the company - in other words, something that's very expensive and 'industrial'. It won't be easy to use.
Cheapest, best route is probably to keep slugging it out for the 'cheap' consumer brand stuff and hope for the best.
For what it's worth, both my brother and I have Canon Z40s. My brother has used his constantly for the last two years (well, quite often - a couple hours a week, I guess). It's a little body worn, but it still works fine. Mine works fine as well, and I like their product over what the others offer. *shrug*
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Don't spend large amounts of money, get the cheapest one you can find with reasonable features and quality and just allow for the fact that it needs to get replaced every so often. I'd much rather have to buy 10 $200 recorders instead of one $2000 which might get stolen misplaced or break in a fall. Get an expensive pair of sunglasses and you'll lose them in a week, get a cheap pair and you can't throw them away!!!
The Panasonic line.
I am embarking on my two year bike journey/documentary. You can see it at worldcyclist.com
What I am using is a 3 CCD chip (A MUST!) Panasonic PV-GS120 (the 150 has replaced it). It has a few drawbacks, no deal breakers though. It has a cinema-like mode, not true 16:9 shooting. It does have a stereo mike input which, with 2 Radio Shack lavaliere mono mikes and a stereo y connector, works pretty good for interview subjects.
Before buying any Mini-DV get the manual from Amazon, you can download them usually.
Before you know it people will beat down a path to your door if you have a good idea. I have a proven Emmy winning director assembling mine, the book already optioned and a sponsorship from Sugoi apparel
I also smoked for 20 years, am slightly overweight and am 39 years old. No one is more surprised than me.
I do not have a digital video camera recommendation, but as far as tough goes, the best film camera I own was designed as an underwater camera (low-end hanimex, forget the model, buried in the junk someplace right now). Tough as nails, takes great snapshots on dry land and looks "normal" as cameras go, ie, no weird plexi housing over a regular camera. Perhaps look at those manufacturers who make such UW cameras.
the sony vx2100 is a rock solid camera. extremely sturdy. i have one and i love it.
For those that like the sound of this line of cameras but would like to see more storage capacity, JVC has apparently announced they're going to start making Everios using 20GB and 30GB hard drives. This new line will supposedly support Mac editing in iMovie for those who want that sort of thing (older models did not offer this). I've attached a the link to the JVC press release for those who want to read up about it.
Reference URL:D =1
http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=461&pageI
Disclaimer: Please note that I do not own an Everio, nor any other camcorder, so I am not in a position to make any authorative recommendations or comparisons, let alone attest to their durability. My opinions are void where prohibited.
I'll agree with the other poster who said /. is not the place to ask A/V questions. Try DV Info, which is a DV site frequented by a lot of professionals.
I actually work at a large electronics retailer and we have a new samsung sport mini-dv camcorder that should hold up to you needs. it's coated with a rubberized material and was actually made to get banged up doing extreme sports and other ruff activities. it holds up to regular wear and tear much better than anything else on the market. it is not really a simple camcorder in that it has a lot of features the really expensive ones do + some exclusive features but, here's the best part: well under $500!!! you can find this fine peice of hardware at any large electronics chain that's worth anything. unfortunatly i do not remember the model # and am too lazy to look it up for you! =-)
is that they record using MPEG-2 for compression instead of DV, which makes frame-by-frame editing a dicey proposition - have to convert back and forth.
+++ATH0
The higher end, Canons (eg XL2) Sonys and Panasonics have better transports (assuming you don't want to go full-blown pro). The low-end consumer grade cameras were meant for pretty low usage. I have worn the heads out on these before anything else. The problem with high end cameras is they are bigger and cost more, but tend to have better built ports, better heads and transports that were designed for more use. They also wear out, but it takes longer, and they are less disposable than cheaper models, as somethings were designed to be repaired. We have gone through a series of Canon mid-range eluras and opturas that we loan to users, typically they are used 4-5 times a week for 2-3 hours at each appointment. We have found they last 18 months to 2 years before they start having issues. It is usually the ports that start going first (especially, external mic ports and firewire, buy a good deck to avoid this). Then, the heads start behaving as if they are dirty and even professional cleaning does not really help. We are pretty happy with that we get a couple new cameras every couple years. Solid state would be nice, but not until the prices for storage are competitive with tape.
Don't know if this has been posted, but I've heard Costco doesn't really care about returns even a year or so later, so if they aren't up to the task, take whatever you buy back, get your money back and buy another :P
On a durability note USC Film School uses the PD-150's for their incoming Grad students (or PD-100's for undergrads), and they last quite a while (based on the condition I got mine in) so I'd second that recommendation (which I did see higher up). They're more expensive and a little bigger than hand helds, but good quality 3 CCD chips balance the price and quality.
The Sony VX2100 and PD170 (they're almost the same camera, but the PD170 has a few more professional features) are generally considered the most rugged and reliable mini-dv cameras around. I've heard some statistics and general anecdotal evidence indicating that they're much more durable than the Panasonic and Canon models in the same range.
They are favorites among skateboard video makers, documentarians (), and professional videographers in general. I have heard people talk about having dropped, kicked, and generally abused these
I don't know your price range, but the VX2100 runs about $2300 and the PD170 about $2700 new.
By the way, before anyone thinks I'm a sony fanboy, know that my personal camcorder is a Panasonic. Other brands have other desirable features, but at that price range and in terms of ruggedness/durability, the sonys are it.
Good luck!
Don't anthromorphize the cameras. They don't like that.
Why not fork?
If you don't need any fancy feature, you will be better of with a cheap digital camera that have no moving parts on it.
The Olympus Stylus Verve looks grate. It's water resistant, cheat, very nice overall. It's movie mode have a 320x200 pixels resolution (half a mini-DV camera) and can store 21 minutes of movies in a 512MB card...
If you need better resolution camera, you can get the Sony Cyber-shot® DSC-S40 that has a 640x480 movie mode with 30fps, but it's not water resistant...
Any digital camera will last far longer than a camera that have moving parts...