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Pentagon Creating A Database Of Students
needacoolnickname writes "The Washington Post is reporting that the Pentagon is working with a marketing firm to create a database of students ages 16 through college to help them identify recruits. A little chuckle from the Pentagon in the article: '...anyone can opt out of the system by providing detailed personal information that will be kept in a separate suppression file. That file will be matched with the full database regularly to ensure that those who do not wish to be contacted are not, according to the Pentagon.'"
to create a database of students ages 16 through college to help them identify recruits.
It will start similar to "Student A has a rich family, pass. Ahh.. Student B is lower-middle class, offer Student B a scholarship attached to a term in the Reserves." and end with "Draft Student B."
Trolling is a art,
Oh wait, I meant 1984. they want their opressive, rights-stripping government back.
Trolling the trolls who troll the trolls since '92
Just when I think our society can't get any more Orwellian, we see this:
It's a hat-trick of privacy violation.
This is just the tip of the iceberg, too...soon this will be expanded to all americans eligible for military service...then all americans, period. Refusing to submit your info for this database will automatically label you as a dissident, although what with the new national IDs coming out, you'll be in that database whether you like it or not.
Welcome to the New World Order.
(P.S.: Here's a link to the various privacy advocates' letter to the Pentagon referenced in the article.)
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Opt-out isn't as easy as it seems. You can't just delete somebody from the database, because then you have no record of them opting-out the next time you do a data load from your source. The only way to properly do opt-out is to put them in a separate opt-out DB.
dom
I have no interest in paying for this troop shortage. Maybe we can have an American lapel-pin flag tax on all the cheap patriotism out there so that they can get what they want.
... You are the one our warfighters depend on. You are Intelligence. Be DIA."
Maybe the government could get more recruits if they didn't sound like such a fascist organization:
"You believe in America. Strength. Integrity. Dedication. Making a difference for the nation.
This is from a job posting for the DIA. The kind of people that would be attracted to this are the kind of sheeple that would ignore the non-existance of WMDs in official reports.
A draft will be needed for the upcoming invasion of Iran, which Scott Ritter (former UN weapons inspector in Iraq) says has already covertly started.
Indeed, Iran is not like Iraq. Iraq was a very splintered social and religious community, while Iran is far more coherent. Iran is well armed. Considering how poorly the Americans have fared in Iraq, Iran is out of the question for anyone with half a mind. Unfortunately, such people are not at the helm of the United States.
I'm praying for all the American youth who may get mislead into dying in some desert battlefields in third-world nations.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
- I didn't have a social security number
- I didn't have a driver's license
- I certainly didn't have any credit cards
But I did have a:- Savings account. Paper passbook. I imagine that all the numbers were in some computer somewhere but it sure wasn't networked with anything else.
- Student info folder at school. All the grades etc. were kept track of by secretaries and typewriter.
- Selective Service registration (I turned 18 my senior year).
The place where I did finally interface with some national databases was when I took the PSAT's. All of a sudden a bazillion colleges were sending me mail. (No, not E-mail!)Of course, now all my kids got Social Security numbers at birth. If you don't get them one, you can't use them as a deduction...!
It's called (or was called ca 1993 - 1997) a "P-card" (Prospect card)
A P-card is what that poor bastard uses when he calls you or your slacker kid every freakin' night of the week, trying to get the two "sits" (appointments) his staion commander told him he had to get before he could go home for the night.
P-card databases are built from a variety of automated and non-automated sources. The armed forces have bought mailing lists targeting the male 18-24 year group for years. Recruiters also use high school year books, phone books, mailing lists provided by schools, and the ASVAB test you took to get out of PE for the day, and other students to build their P-card database.
The Penatagon building another database is redundant as any recruiter will tell you. Most of the leads it will generate will likely be useless, but recuriters will be forced to refine them, adding more work to an already never-ending day on the bag.
I imagine many army recruiters are wishing they were in Iraq right now instead of cold-calling people with little to no interest in volunteering to serve in the military.
At least in Iraq they get to shoot back at the bastards.
"I worked hard for it. I deserve it. And I have it," Campbell said. "It's all mine."
A couple of stories that may add a historical perspective:
.22 casings, and wondered: who was paying for the bullets? I couldn't imagine that the left-wing PTA would ever budget for them.
Plastic Army Men
----------------
Remember the great deals on plastic Army men that you could get on the back covers of comic books? This was back in the early '70's. My friend and his brother weren't satisified with their "one per customer" offer, so they made up a bunch of fake siblings with silly names and sent orders it their name.
About 10 years later, the brothers were getting a ton of military recruiting junk mail. As were their fake siblings...
Riflery Team
------------
I was a member of the Riflery team in high school, circa 1981. I lived in a pretty liberal place at the time.
At on practice, I looked down at the bucket of spent
I asked the teacher-coach. He looked at me funny, and said: "The Army pays for the bullets".
It took me a second to absorb this, and I asked what the Army was getting back in return. The teacher-coach said: "Your target scores".
Now, my parents hadn't agreed to that, and neither did I. I quit that day, not wanting to be "special need" drafted as a sniper.
jh
With so few people in the military, how can the United States carry out its obligations as a world power? One obligation is providing disaster relief like that in January of 2005 in Southeast Asia.
By stopping all their stupid wars, duh! That, and stopping to call themselves silly names like "world power" and "leaders of freedom and democracy". Give us a fucking break, 20th century called and they want their cold war back.
Huh? You mean like this? Man, Americans don't know shit about how their own government works. No wonder why you freaked out like you did. Ignorance leads to fear and all that.
Look, for whatever reason, the military was unable to get this info from the SSS, they had to go to a marketing firm in order to solicit their own citizens. Christ on a cracker, you think this is Orwellian? Military service was mandatory for a very long time in the US. It's mandatory in a huge number of countries, many of which you'd probably even consider liberal democracies.
When this fails to get enough recruits can the draft be far behind?
Not likely. Drafts aren't as easy to obtain now as they were in the 1960s. The president can request a draft but Congress has the final word on whether or not a draft will be in effect.
With that said, you have to keep in mind one thing. Humans love cushy jobs. And from what I understand about being a congressman, it is a pretty cushy job. You know go travel, get paid a (at least) six figure income, and do a vote every once in a while just to make it look like to the people that you are actually doing something.
So if todays Congress decides to pass a draft, you can bet on them not keeping their cushy jobs for every long afterwards.
Red Bull gave me wings and I flew into the ceiling fan.
Why does everyone keep bringing this up? It's a neat scare tactic but it's not going to happen. There is still an excess of reservists and guard units which have not been called up. (I know this because I know a lot of them which have not been called up or have been rotated home from duty). Barring another war taking place on US soil there will not be a draft.
Committing to a draft would actually hurt the military more than help. A dramatic increase in personnel would strain existing logistical resources and money allotted to the department of defense. There would have to be a extreme increase in military funding before any drafting would occur.
Quality Hosting e3 Servers
actually, if you want to OPT-OUT from ALL credit card offers:
you can call : 1-888-5-OPTOUT to get out of this, there is a website, they give it to you in the phone number, i did it 3 months ago, i barely get any now (tehy have to work you out of the system, some places have purchased your info from the credit bureaus like 3-4 months ago)
http://www.ftc.gov/privacy/protect.htm
In my country, so called people's army had exactly such a database of all students, because every student was actualy a recruit on delay.
But that was deep past in the totalitarian communist era. Today it would be illegal to keep such data for any reason. What's exactly going on in the USA??? Is it a precursor to conscription?
There you are, staring at me again.
Listen folks, here's the deal. Many people are opposed to the war, both inside and outside of the military. This is inconcequential to this discussion. People are using this issue to present thier own personal interests. Parents are calling foul play because they don't want Johnny or Suzie getting blown up in Iraq. Other people are fearful of their privacy, so this sounds all too "big brother" to them. The reality of the entire issue is this: We are a nation founded on revolution and war. Our power in the world was won through superior military force. We are currently having difficulty in maintaining that force. Measures are being taken to resolve that issue. Period. Don't cry to me about big brother or dead children. Look at the world around you and realize that the reason you enjoy your freedoms is because of the blood spilt by hundreds of thousands of Americans who paid the price for you. (I'll stop short of the Christ reference) If people really don't want thier children getting blown up, then don't vote for a president who will go to war so easily. If you are afraid of "big brother", don't use credit cards, save your money and pay for everything in cash. Our modern society is productive because of our ability to exploit knowledge opportunities. Now that it's being done for the defense of the country, people want to complain. If a marketing company sent you a free box of Tide Detergent in the mail you wouldn't bitch, because you're greedy like that. Well, you're being given freedom, and it's going to require some computers and research to get it done. No one forces the hand of the individual to sign the paper. So shut up about all the crap, take a deep breath and try not to choke on the sweet air of freedom. Went to school? Thank a teacher. Learned in English? Thank a soldier.
No, in Soviet America, Our Glorious Leader's Five Year Plan is to Win The War in Five Years.
...
Ignore the fact that it's the same plan that Our Glorious Leader had Five Years ago
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
If the war is "unpopular with the majority of Americans", it won't go on.
Simply because you, or even most of Slashdot, don't like the war, doesn't mean that's the way most of the country feels.
Personally,
1) while I feel that some of the details of the original plan have become confused, the overall effort is good, and
2) I have friends in Iraq that are glad to be there, because they have a sense of national pride, and a commitment to something other more than themselves.
Don't apply your opinion to the rest of America.
Please ignore any obvious problems in this post.
Jokes aside..
This is getting sadder and sadder. It seems that the American ppl keep on loosing their freedom and right to privacy every time.
It seems that the US be becoming a big brother policed state funded by Greedy Corporations.
OK, so let's drop the empty sloganeering, FUD about the draft and such for a few moments. The military exists. It only takes volunteers. To get the needed number of volunteers, the military recruits, which involves advertising.
Any organization which advertises attempts to reach the target most narrowly suited to the message being generated (in this case, preferable to military service). So what is scary about this? What is wrong about this?
Are you arguing that the military shouldn't recruit? If so, are you further arguing that the military shouldn't exist?
If the military should exist and should recruit, what is the problem with the military using the same techniques that every private organization from CocaCola to MoveON uses?
-- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
> They also were heard giving him advice on how to disguise a chronic "marijuana problem" and how to pass a mandatory drug test.
The fake diploma thing is downright dishonest, but I've had employers tell me before a drug test "just drink a whole lot of gatorade a few days before and take a b12 tablet the day of the test". It's not like the kid was a crackhead, and these folks figured, probably rightly, that the army might clean him up.
Before shipping him off to get him killed for the commander-in-chief's personal vendetta of course.
By the way, it'd lead to less stories. They'll be able to screen out those pesky journalists. Word to the wise student: take journalism.
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
Pumping everyone full of fear and waving flags around should be enough to scare enough stupid people into signing up. But they'll get some job experience, so they can come up and work as Walmart rent-a-cops.
In addition, standoff weapons, drones, robot warfare, and other systems will greatly reduce the size of force required to terrorize the planet.
Go ahead and rant. Go ahead and tell your kids not to listen to the evil recruiters. At that age you virtually gaurantee they will want to join. The military is a valid career alternative for anyone regardless of their highschool grades or economic status. The military cranks out more skilled tradesmen and managers than any other organization or school.
I went from a 2.4 GPA in highschool to operating a nucleap power plant in two years. When I did finally go to college I was at the top of my class. I credit the Navy for gettign me where I am today.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
It never ceases to amaze that a large majority of the people on this board have an innate aversion to serve the country that has provided them with the most freedom and liberty of ANY government in the history of man. EVERY amercian owes a debt of gratitude to every soldier, sailor, airman, marine, and coast guardsman who serves or has served this country. Without them, you wouldn't be sitting here on slashdot spouting your displaced self-loathing. Only the last couple of generations of Americans are so self-involved that they cannot see the DUTY, the OBLIGATION for every American to repay the debt and serve at least a 2-year commitment their own country. I am an 8-year (disabled, service-connected) veteran and I appreciate the experience, motivation and pride that came with my service. I am now a much more successful person because of what I learned while in the service of my country. As a result, my work shows more motivation and attention to detail than almost any of my co-workers, and employers DO take note of performance. Yes, there were times when what I was called upon to do had a very high "pucker factor". There were times that I almost lost life and limb. I am thankful that I didn't, but that doesn't mean that I should whine, cry or run away from the responsibility to ensure that the Grand Experiment lives on. By all means, hold hands, sing Cumbaya, but realize the necessity of the defense of our country. And if you don't think islamofacism can spread to your back yard, read this: http://www.detnews.com/2005/oakland/0506/22/B04-22 3573.htm
peace, out.
I'm not applying my opinion to the rest of America. I'm deferring to The Gallup Organization.
I'll readily grant that polls aren't perfect--I used to work for a pollster, and I'm well aware of the pitfalls involved in this kind of thing--but I invite you to direct me towards a better metric of American popular opinion. I also invite you to refute the notion that the war in Iraq is losing, not gaining, support.
1) while I feel that some of the details of the original plan have become confused, the overall effort is good
"Some of the details"? We went to Iraq because we were told that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that an attack on the United States was imminent. Which part of that reason turned out to be right?
The overall effort, while rooted in good intentions, has been abysmal. Can you point to a single pre-invasion document or plan for what we would do once we had deposed Hussein and defeated the Iraqi armed forces? What about the disbanding of the Iraqi army--was that a good move? What of the aggressive de-Baathification of Iraq--was that a good move? What of the fact that Iraqis still do not have reliable electricity--is that a good sign? What of the fact that our policy on detainees and interrogation became so muddled and laissez-faire that we ended up with hundreds of documented cases of prisoner abuse and torture at US detention facilities around the world--is that a good thing?
The overall effort is without direction. The overall effort is based on a nebulous concept of how the current administration would like to see American power exercised around the globe. The current plan is, as it has always been, rooted in the basic hope that things will magically right themselves with just a little more perseverance and muscle. While the overall effort is decidedly good--our troops are performing incredibly well under extremely difficult conditions--the actual planning and execution is utterly abysmal. That is what has my hackles up--our leaders sent our finest into a situation that they didn't have any real plan for, beyond "make it all better". That is what disgusts me.
2) I have friends in Iraq that are glad to be there, because they have a sense of national pride, and a commitment to something other more than themselves.
As well they should be proud--they're fighting a noble cause! Ask your friends, though, if they feel like the powers that be know what they're doing. Ask your friends if they know what the road to victory is. Ask your friends how one distinguises friend from foe. You may find that, while they are justifiably proud of what they're doing, they feel some very real trepidation as to where the war is going, and what needs to be done to actually win the war.
The road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions. The simple and infuriating fact is that we're in Iraq with a wonderful, noble goal in mind--but without a plan as to how to get there, because our leaders assumed that the wonderful, noble goal would simply achieve itself once we removed Saddam. It could have worked, if only our leaders had planned for the day after. Now, we'll be genuinely lucky if Iraq doesn't sink into a protracted civil war and the rest of the region doesn't sink further into instability.
How does this not infuriate you?
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
You say "Military recruiters recognize the more limited future of these kids and that they have something to offer them. Military recruitment is usually a win/win proposition." If we had responsible leaders who used war as a last resort, you might be right. But in the current debacle, it's atrocious the some people justify getting poor Americans to fight a war led by hawkish politicians who won't put themselves or their families in harm's way.
About 1700 young Americans have been killed in action thus far, it shouldn't be only the poorer families be the ones to risk their children's lives in order to have a better future. Do you support these 1700 deaths, along with tens of thousands of cases of physical and psychological injuries, such that other soldiers have a chance to lead a better life?
When you say the military takes care of you, that sentiment is greatly questioned by those in active duty. Where were you stationed during your service, and how many of your fellow soldiers were killed on the front line?
Also due to the current recruiting crisis, military recruiters have resorted to unethical practices to get people to enlist. Shouldn't these potential recruits make the decision to join on their own, without pressure from the recruiter?
The current class gap recruiting policies are nothing more than a technique to allow poor soldiers fight a war that the rich politicians support but don't want their own family members fighting in.
make world, not war
No. You're wrong. There is a REASON that this war is BECOMING unpopular.
And tracking kids so the government can pressure them into fighting such a war is the PROBLEM.
No. Look up "Boston Tea Party". Our country was founded upon the belief in certain Rights.
Only recently. Before that, it was because of our vast natural resources and distance from the established armies of the other nations.
You might want to look at the Founding Fathers' views on a standing military.
That sounds a bit too much like "the ends justify the means".
Here's the flaw in that claim.
... but they still don't allow women to vote.
Because some people joined the military and fought and died for Freedom does not mean that everyone who dies in the military furthers Freedom.
Check out Kuwait. We "Freed" them from Iraqi invasion
This "Freedom" thing is a bit tricky, no?
So people who didn't vote for Bush are exempt from this database?
And now you're into "blaming the victim".
Why not just make it illegal for those companies to collect that information on me?
That can mean anything from filing a patent on your new, effective, cold fusion generator to filming your neighbor in the shower.
This is not about "defense of the country". Iraq was no threat to the USofA.
Getting a sample box of Tide == tracking kids to target them for recruitment
Right.
No one "gives" anyone else "Freedom".
And tracking kids is the OPPOSITE of Freedom.
That is correct. But this isn't about forcing them to sign. This is about tracking them to specifically target them.
You use that word a lot, but I don't think you understand what it means.
Okay, but shouldn't I also thank the people who funded the school system and paid the teachers' salaries?
You are, of course, aware tha
But as someone else said, this information could, and most likely will, eventually be shared with other agencies. That, I think, is the real evil here.
...
If the terrorists extract another drop of blood for 20 years they have already won if you put stock in the most idiotic statement since 9/11 "They Hate Us For Our Freedom" - GWB Fall 2001. If this is REALLY what our administration believes why turn away from that chartet to adopt domestic policies to erode personal liberty, detain people (even US citizens) indefinitely without charge or trial, prop up undemocratic governments in Egypt and Lebanon for fear of "unfriendly" Islamist leaders that would likely win a free election?
When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
There are no enemy lines in a guerrila war.
Is that the same Army whose recruiters attempted to commit two clear ethical violations just in the process of getting him in the door? You're right, sounds like a good influence.
I've had three pretty close friends enlist in the services -- two in the Navy, one in the Marines. The levels of alcohol and drug use they described were frighteningly high. That's anecdotal, okay -- but these were straight arrows going in, and they weren't anywhere near clean while they were in uniform. One at least was more Boy Scout than was maybe good for him before he joined. Two of them have returned to those selves after leaving, but the third is a hard drinking, hard smoking, heavily-tattooed and generally scary fellah now. Wants to talk about how cynical he is about "how things work," mostly.
(This story is basically "The services are desperate to recruit, and they got this 'in' in Bush's education bill to do it with." Why are they desperate to recruit? Because W., having talked so much about the armed forces not being ready for confict during the 2000 campaign, has spent his term in office making those predictions come true on his own watch. Everything the guy claimed about Clinton decimating the military's ability to fight, he's done himself in spades.)
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Navy and Air Force recruiting are still doing ok. Most jobs in the Navy and AF are pretty safe and away from the roadside bombs. Plus the job market for 18 year olds out of high school isn't so hot either.
We have enough people and equipment in the military to do lots of missions like humanitarian and peacekeeping. We can still destroy any other conventional army in the world. We just don't have the people (or the stomach) to do an imperial occupation. Call it what you will, that's the mission now.
I agree with him, and I am one of the biggest bush hating socially liberal democrats you will ever meet. I think the Iraq war is an atrocity.
Now lets say I am a poor kid from a place like Flint, Michigan, or the rustbelt and just eeked my way to a high school diploma. I have a few options:
A.) Work in a physically stressful, probably menial and dirty job such as fastfood, custodian, or retail worker. Live paycheck to paycheck, narrowly escaping poverty, maybe one day get promoted to shift supervisor or find a steady factory worker, or civil service job and make $15/hr.
B.) Join the Army, gain valuable skills, earn salary on top of getting basics (food, shelter) paid for. Have the advantage of having the respect of being in the US armed forces on my resume, for the rest of my life.
Downside(today): There is a solid chance that I will get shipped off to war and get disabled for life or killed. Note that only 15% of actively enrolled people in the military are deployed overseas in military operations, and of those 15%, how many are actually on the front lines?
What is an attractive choice to you?
Speaking as a veteran, I would say that the reason is that the easiest way to pay for a college education for a middle class student is to go into the military.
College costs big money. It's not an easy thing for most lower-middle and midde-middle income families to take on the kind of debt that is required to obtain a college degree.
The reality is the United States has a draft today.
It's just an economic draft.
Kids who can afford to pay for college do so. Those who can't afford to pay for it and still want an education go into the military.
- dj
I know this is going to be seen as "just more fringe political B.S." by some - but the last few administrations seem like clear evidence to me that it's so.
If the L.P. could garner enough voter support to be viable, their political attitudes and agenda would finally break the cycle. But with the "Republican" vs. "Democrat" status-quo we're working under today - no matter who gets elected, indiividual rights and freedom gets further trampled on. Under the Clinton administration, you had acts like the D.M.C.A. signed into law. With Bush, you have soliders being sent off to die for a war that seems no more likely to ever be won than the "War on Drugs" of the 80's.
Just today, I believe a Supreme Court ruling decided that states DO have the rights to take away individuals' property for ANY reason (not just if they can show it is in the greater public interest to do so). These types of changes happen right under our noses all the time, slowly chiseling away at those grand concepts like "Freedom" that we supposedly fight for in the services.