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Sony Refutes Low UMD Sales, Slow Production

Posted by Zonk on from the when-news-isn't-news dept.

Sony has responded to recent media attention with corrective statements. Specifically, the widely reported 100K UMD sales figure, and the slowdown in PSP production. GamesIndustry.biz is reporting that the Japanese company actually pegs UMD movie sales as much higher, possibly in the half-million unit range. Similarly, Gamespot reports that the company denies that they've slowed PSP production. From the article: "I'm not sure where the 18 million claim came from...We announced in the Sony earnings call that the fiscal year 2005 PSP shipment targets were 12 million units worldwide. We are still on target and there has been no reduction in forecast."

41 of 62 comments (clear)

  1. What gives? by jasonmicron · · Score: 1

    I honestly don't see any use for the (ironically named) "Universal" Media Disc for the price that it is set at.

    $20.00 per disc for a system that can't even display it on a TV at DVD quality? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they cheaper to make that VHS tapes?

    I pity anyone that actively buys UMD discs. Just get a portable DVD player and use the DVDs you already have instead of forking out another $20.00 for a substandard version. .02

    Oh, and first post I guess.

    1. Re:What gives? by (A)*(B)!0_- · · Score: 1
      I am quite wealthy and don't mind paying $40.00 [UMD + DVD] for the convenience the double ownership affords me. You may pity me all you like but being able to watch a movie on my PSP from time to time is a very small luxury at a low price. A portable DVD player drops the total cost of portable movies by $20 but then I lose the functionality of the PSP that doesn't relate to playing movies. (I am not going to carry around both a DVD player and my PSP.)

      I don't think you need to either pity me or talk about first posts.

    2. Re:What gives? by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 1

      Even if one wants to use the PSP to watch movies, there are tools out there to convert video into a format that the PSP can play. Just get a large memory stick and load it up with a couple movies. Of course if one is ripping from DVD the copy protection may need to be cracked. But if this isn't a case of fair use, I don't know what is.

    3. Re:What gives? by jasonmicron · · Score: 2, Funny

      This is how I see the words and their meaning:

      Universal (because it is universally compatible)
      Media (because it _is_ a media medium)
      Disc (because that is what it is)

      Everyone that I have talked to says the same thing. So I have to ask: What was Sony thinking? Or did it just not translate that well from Japanese? Did someone set us up the bomb again?

    4. Re:What gives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You are the engine that keeps the economy running. We need more jackassish indiscrimate spenders like you to prop up the debt based black hole that is the world.

    5. Re:What gives? by PhotoBoy · · Score: 1

      Someone is writing an xvid player for the PSP so soon hopefully it will be possible to put some decent films onto a memory stick. Of course with the largest memory stick being 1Gb it won't be possible to fit many on there, but at least it will be better than the terrible quality MP4 files the PSP plays natively...

    6. Re:What gives? by Golias · · Score: 3, Funny

      You think that's confusing, just wait until Sony offers a new version of the UMD with 2x capacity, called the "Double UMD."

      Orders for large Double UMD shipments will pour in from North Korea, Iran, and various locations all over Africa and the Middle East.

      President Bush and Prime Minister Blair will be understandably alarmed and distressed that Japan, who has been a solid ally in the war against terrorism, has suddenly begun distributing Double UMD's all over the world.

      The sudden lack of trust will lead the West to finally take a close look at the military espionage and weapons-delivery potential of the Sony Aibo, not to mention the disk-shooting PSP. This evidence, along with the reports of Sony-made Double UMD's, will force the hands of America and England to impose a regime change, arresting Kunitake Ando and putting Steve Jobs in charge of a provisional board of directors until the shareholders can elect a new Executive staff via U.N. monitored elections.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    7. Re:What gives? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "I pity anyone that actively buys UMD discs. Just get a portable DVD player and use the DVDs you already have instead of forking out another $20.00 for a substandard version. .02"

      Ugh. You're talking about a device that's substantially bigger than a PSP. If I really had to have movies on the go, a PSP would be a much better choice simply for its size. As for movies, I saw a rack of them for $15 each over at Wal Mart.

      The thing is, though, I don't totally disagree with you. I think this is really a niche market. I know a guy who spends weeks at a time on the road. I could see him doing the PSP + UMD movie thing and being quite happy. I don't see it being all that appealing mass-market wise. It's a pity that Sony wasn't thinking a little farther ahead. 1.5 gigs will hold two near-DVD quality movies using a codec like Xvid. They could have made DVD players with a UMD slot for a nice pleasant DVD alternative.

      Oh well.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    8. Re:What gives? by Golias · · Score: 1

      Why did Sony need to make the name "i.Link" when IEEE-1394 worked fine?

      You're one of the people in charge of naming GNU products, aren't you?

      Why couldn't they just say "FireWire"? Because that would give legitimacy to Apple?

      No, I'm pretty sure it's because that would give money to Apple.

      IIRC, Sony and Apple both own a bit of the technology behind IEEE-1394, but they own the trademarks separately.

      Try to come up with a joint trademark, and you end up with stupid names like "TOSLink"

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    9. Re:What gives? by Golias · · Score: 1

      Try to come up with a joint trademark, and you end up with stupid names like "TOSLink"

      Bah... Ranting too fast. The stupid name example I meant to offer up was "S/PDIF"

      Then again, TOSLink sounds kind of stupid too.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    10. Re:What gives? by Delphiki · · Score: 3, Funny
      because it _is_ a media medium

      Awesome posting post.

      --

      Feel free to mod me "-1 - Angry Jerk".

    11. Re:What gives? by PhotoBoy · · Score: 1

      Lol yeah, it will work with firmware 1.00 and 1.5, and you just have to hope you don't get your firmware forcibly upgraded! :)

      Personally I think Sony are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this, but they don't seem to care that emulators and homebrew games are a selling point for some people.

      Here's a link about the xvid player: clicky

    12. Re:What gives? by Babbster · · Score: 1
      1. Anyone who is spending "weeks at a time" on the road is probably doing so carrying a lot of stuff for the ride. A portable DVD player and some discs (and access to innumerable rental outlets) wouldn't be a huge burden.
      2. I can't believe that spending an extra $150-200 on a PSP, and an extra $5-10 per UMD, is worth the difference in size if you want movies on the go - especially considering, again, the easy availability of DVDs.
      3. The number of movies available for UMD is so small that anyone choosing a PSP for that purpose would have to possess VERY narrow tastes and a desire to watch the same things over and over and over again.
      4. The chances of Sony really pushing UMD as any kind of true DVD alternative, and, of course, the chances of the movie industry at large adopting UMD as a common format, seem slim and none to me. Sony is going to be pushing hard for people to adopt Blu-Ray next year (with other companies doing the same, or pushing HD-DVD) and it sure would be foolish to try to convince people to adopt two new formats...especially when one (UMD) is demonstrably inferior to even OLDER technology.

      UMD movies are a bad idea for consumers AND content distributors. They are going to go nowhere fast.

    13. Re:What gives? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I think they prefer it to be a selling point since few know it doesn't work with new PSPs but they also consider it competition to licensed games. Of course someone who buys a PSP for emulation only finds out too late that it won't work.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    14. Re:What gives? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "1. Anyone who is spending "weeks at a time" on the road is probably doing so carrying a lot of stuff for the ride. A portable DVD player and some discs (and access to innumerable rental outlets) wouldn't be a huge burden."

      That door swings both ways. If somebody's carrying a lot of junk, luxuries suddenly become too luxurious if they're too much. As somebody who has been on that sort of trip before, I can tell you that a portable DVD player is a pain in the ass if you're already carrying a heavy shoulder bag. At least a PSP fits in your front pocket.

      "2. I can't believe that spending an extra $150-200 on a PSP, and an extra $5-10 per UMD, is worth the difference in size if you want movies on the go - especially considering, again, the easy availability of DVDs."

      There's a reason I used the word 'niche'. However, we're talking a pretty serious difference in size. It doesn't matter what UMD movies aren't available, only what is. If there aren't any movies you care about, then problem solved. Also factor in that the PSP plays music and games. Your DVD player does NOT. If you really gotta have mobile entertainment, the PSP makes a ton more sense than a portable DVD player. If you're really desperate to watch a particular movie, dump it to a media stick.

      "3. The number of movies available for UMD is so small that anyone choosing a PSP for that purpose would have to possess VERY narrow tastes and a desire to watch the same things over and over and over again."

      There are still movies coming out. The same argument could have been made for DVD players at their conception.

      "4. The chances of Sony really pushing UMD as any kind of true DVD alternative, and, of course, the chances of the movie industry at large adopting UMD as a common format, seem slim and none to me. Sony is going to be pushing hard for people to adopt Blu-Ray next year (with other companies doing the same, or pushing HD-DVD) and it sure would be foolish to try to convince people to adopt two new formats...especially when one (UMD) is demonstrably inferior to even OLDER technology."

      That's like saying Nintendo shouldn't have released the Game Boy because it had the Super Nintendo coming along.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    15. Re:What gives? by darthtrevino · · Score: 1
      Although I agree with you that UMD is fundamentally a dumb idea (but the PSP is a good one), you are quie wrong when you say:

      A portable DVD player and some discs (and access to innumerable rental outlets) wouldn't be a huge burden.

      When you are out on the road on business, on a trail hiking, or anywhere that is not home, you want your load to be as light as possible. It is simple not convenient to anyone to be carrying around tens of lbs of "luxury" weight.

      If Sony was thinking for the future, like many apologists will claim they are, then they would have had an online movie store where customers could purchase films for rental or sale in a DRM'ed MPEG 4 format, and these films could be dropped onto a memory stick or any other compatible device. Physical media, especially niche ones like UMD, is the way of the past, and Sony is notorious for being terrible with their physical media formats.

    16. Re:What gives? by Babbster · · Score: 1
      No, the same couldn't have been said about DVDs at their [in]ception since DVD was an open format with many manufacturers on board.

      No, it's not like saying Nintendo shouldn't have released the Game Boy because of the Super Nintendo because GB had significantly different games from the SNES and vice versa, and there was no handheld SNES system. As far as I can tell, the only exclusive UMD movie coming in the forseeable future is Final Fantasy VII - Advent Children.

      Finally, you're wrong in at least a couple areas about portable DVD players. First off, good ones (ones available for $200) aren't significantly bigger than a CD player (which has been considered "conveniently" portable for a long time) plus the thickness of an LCD. I won't deny that the PSP is smaller but I would still submit that the size advantage is insignificant when either can be EASILY popped into a carry-on. You're also wrong about portable DVD players not playing music. Many, if not most, of the models I've looked at can play both audio CDs (all) and MP3 CDs (most), and making MP3 CDs costs pennies while playing a similar amount of music in a PSP will require a LARGE expenditure for memory cards.

      Taking things a step beyond portable DVD players, many people "on the road" have laptop computers. Wouldn't it be even more of a space savings just to skip both the PSP and portable DVD player and play DVDs on that?

    17. Re:What gives? by Babbster · · Score: 1
      When you are out on the road on business, on a trail hiking, or anywhere that is not home, you want your load to be as light as possible. It is simple not convenient to anyone to be carrying around tens of lbs of "luxury" weight.

      Welcome to Exaggerationville. In terms of weight, a portable DVD player with battery is going to be about two pounds. The DVDs themselves will weigh the same, if not less, than UMDs given that the latter have their caddies as well (this is assuming one uses a sleeve-type system to carry DVDs instead of toting the cases). At BEST, the PSP has an advantage in terms of bulk - weight isn't an issue once one has decided to go the portable movie route.

    18. Re:What gives? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "No, the same couldn't have been said about DVDs at their [in]ception since DVD was an open format with many manufacturers on board."

      DVD is not an open format. It's a widely accepted format, but it's not an open format.

      "No, it's not like saying Nintendo shouldn't have released the Game Boy because of the Super Nintendo because GB had significantly different games from the SNES and vice versa, and there was no handheld SNES system."

      I really didn't understand that. Heh. Considering that the GB weathered all sorts of competition, I'm puzzled as to why you think this is a strong argument.

      " First off, good ones (ones available for $200) aren't significantly bigger than a CD player (which has been considered "conveniently" portable for a long time)"

      PSP is half the size. It's also worth mentioning that a lot of people replaced their CD players with iPods and other MP3 players because of the significantly smaller size.

      "but I would still submit that the size advantage is insignificant when either can be EASILY popped into a carry-on."

      Insignificant? Have you ever tried to retrieve anything from carry-on? Have you ever tried cramming too much stuff into a carry-on bag? It's very easy to do on a long trip.

      " You're also wrong about portable DVD players not playing music."

      You're right, I should have used the word 'conveniently'.

      "... making MP3 CDs costs pennies while playing a similar amount of music in a PSP will require a LARGE expenditure for memory cards."

      A 512 meg card holds almost as much as a CD. True, you could cheaply bring more CDs, but you are also carrying significantly more stuff around. CDs are big and easy to scratch.

      "Wouldn't it be even more of a space savings just to skip both the PSP and portable DVD player and play DVDs on that?"

      Yes, that's why I'm not the slightest bit interested in a PSP. Unfortunately, even using a laptop on a plane is a pain the ass. Too cramped on planes. Fortunately, though, I have a TabletPC. I don't have to unfold the thing to watch it. That and its batteries last for about 3 hours.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    19. Re:What gives? by darthtrevino · · Score: 1
      I wasn't implying that portable DVD players weigh 30 lbs. WHat I am implying is :

      1)Portable DVD players are significantly bulkier and weightier than their PSP counterparts.

      2)Packed with other "luxury" items that only weigh a couple of pounds, this can lead to tens of pounds of extra baggage being loaded..any traveller/hiker knows this.

      In terms of sheer traveling portability the PSP murders portable DVD players. But their primary fault, their one Achilles' heel that will prevent widespread adoption is UMD disks and Sony's notoriously horrendous policies of closed and niche media formats.

      They had a golden goose of an opportunity to come out with the worlds first widespread digital movie store and couple it with a solid gameboy rivaling handleld...They traded it for UMD lock-in.

    20. Re:What gives? by Babbster · · Score: 1

      In other words, both you and the fellow below are just playing devil's advocate. Well, glad that's out of the way. I'd hate to think that reasonably intelligent people actually thought that UMD movies were TRULY a good idea as anything but an intellectual exercise.

    21. Re:What gives? by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "In other words, both you and the fellow below are just playing devil's advocate. "

      Pretty much. I used to have a really big interest in portable media players, so I've got some pretty strong opinions about what's good and what's bad.

      Have a good weekend. :)

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    22. Re:What gives? by demi · · Score: 1

      Except that the player that can read from the memory stick is intentionally crippled so that it can't play movies at the full resolution the PSP is capable of.

      --
      demi
    23. Re:What gives? by Golias · · Score: 1

      Holy crap, mod this up!

      Heh. Whoever you are, AC... So far it looks like only you and one other person got the joke.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  2. Sony "Sales" by Neon+Spiral+Injector · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't forget how Sony counts sales. An item is sold to them when it ships for the store.

    1. Re:Sony "Sales" by jrumney · · Score: 1

      I suspect that is where the 100,000 comes from. The "maybe up to half a million" more likely comes from items that stores have committed to selling in future.

  3. A little defensive there, Sony? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

    To be fair, there are movies to be had on UMD at my local Evil-Mart for $15... but for just $5 more, you can get it, with special features, in a format you can watch on any DVD player or your computer, to watch on a big screen with your friends.

    But what I really don't get is why so many PSP games are going for $50. You can get a new-release console game for that much! And most PSP games, from what I've seen so far, look like console-style games made for a portable, instead of with portable gaming, the situations in which portable gaming occurs, and the unique possibilities portable gaming makes available.

    Which is not to say I'm getting an awful lot of play out of my DS right now....

    1. Re:A little defensive there, Sony? by Babbster · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think it's more surprising that games for HOME consoles haven't gotten a price increase in the past many years. The profit margins on videogames are going to reach a breaking point sooner rather than later considering how the costs of development keep going up and up. Charging $50 per game for portable games doesn't seem unreasonable in today's context, and I think folks need to brace themselves for $60 being the standard opening price for home console games in the very near-future.

    2. Re:A little defensive there, Sony? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think it's more surprising that games for HOME consoles haven't gotten a price increase in the past many years.

      You'll be getting your wish the next generation. Not that I'll be cheering -- all three console manufacturers are planningon $60 games.

      Anyway, GBA and DS games still tend to be around $30.

    3. Re:A little defensive there, Sony? by Babbster · · Score: 1
      Don't get me wrong - it isn't my wish and I won't be cheering, either. I'm not in the gaming industry, so higher prices don't do anything for me.

      It's also worth pointing out that lower GBA game prices are subsidized partly by the volume which they sell and by the fact that companies are able to make a LOT of money selling older games. I wouldn't be surprised if the profit on Nintendo's Mario games alone make it so that they can drop prices several dollars across the board and still make scads o'cash.

      If Sony can somehow get the price of the PSP down to a somewhat more reasonable price (in terms of competition - I actually think the $300 price tag IS reasonable for its capabilities, if not for its current game selection), they could get the install base they need to lower prices as well. Time, as they say, will tell...

    4. Re:A little defensive there, Sony? by MilenCent · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong - it isn't my wish and I won't be cheering, either.

      I figured that -- I was merely joking, sorry.

      It's also worth pointing out that lower GBA game prices are subsidized partly by the volume which they sell and by the fact that companies are able to make a LOT of money selling older games.

      There are fewer remakes, as a proportion of total games sold, among the GBA library than it is popularly represented as being, and it's been some time now since the last Super Mario Advance title was released.

      Plus, while the level data, concepts and basic graphic themes may be the same, it's certain they had to code a new engine for the Super Mario Advance games from scratch, so it's not so much of a slam dunk concerning profit, especially since new art assets were created for two of the four games. Also, I imagine they had some amount of difficulty porting Yoshi's Island -- the graphics from the original SNES game were provided by a SuperFX chip, which is rather different from the GBA hardware.

      If Sony can somehow get the price of the PSP down to a somewhat more reasonable price (in terms of competition - I actually think the $300 price tag IS reasonable for its capabilities, if not for its current game selection), they could get the install base they need to lower prices as well.

      I think what Sony was going after, with the PSP, was not just the GBA, but also the iPod, which has quite the premium price tag. But the iPod is a portable system that does a small number of things really well.

      I wonder if anyone has current U.S. sales for the DS and PSP? I haven't heard anything about how the systems compared with each other in sales in the 'States for some time now. (In Japan, they're both selling well, but the DS has a substantial, and widening, lead.)

  4. refute != dispute by cahiha · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Refute" means to demonstrate conclusively that something is false. Sony hasn't done that. They have merely disputed the claim.

  5. Tony refutes absurd rumors by macshit · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Ya see baby, it's not really that small... it's er, an optical illusion, yeah... caused by ... my raw animal magnetism. Yeah. Animal magnetism as raw as mine can be hard to control, baby, hard to control."

    --
    We live, as we dream -- alone....
  6. Re:damage control, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I'm sure the DS will get cheaper, but the one thing people always seem to say is "I will get a PSP when the price drops". The DS is pretty much already at a mass-market price, whereas the PSP is still too expensive for many. I think once the PSP hits a certain price range it will start to sell more. Of course I'd much prefer a market where the DS and PSP co-exist, but these days it seems whoever sells the most is the winner, regardless of who made a profit...

  7. Denial by alvinrod · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sony seems to have a large problem with denial. They simply choose to beleive that the problem doesn't exist, usually in spite of the fact that all evidence points to the fact that there is problem.

    Case 1: UMD discs selling poorly.
    Denial: We meant to say singular title, and failed to mention we could units sold differently than most people in order to make the numbers deceptive.

    Case 2: PSP's have dead pixels in the screen.
    Denial: This is common with all LCD devices (true to some extent) and is therefore not our fault. Lalalalalalala, we're not listening.

    Case 3: PS2 DRE (This has happened to me).
    Denial: As far as we're concerned there's absolutely nothing wrong with your PS2. However, you can pay $70 and shipping costs to have our technitians hit it with a putty knife.

    Rather than actually admit that something might be wrong, Sony has time after time tried to sweep the problem under the rug or use smoke and mirror diversionary tactics. The end result is some terrible customer support.

    1. Re:Denial by Minced · · Score: 1

      I agree, infact I have found SONY's "magic" formula and this is it. 1. Hype like there is no tommorrow 2. When hype != reality, change documents and lie.

    2. Re:Denial by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      Sony can correct all of this with a version 2.0 PSP of some sort. And quick frankly they need to do it quick.

  8. Sales Metrics by pipingguy · · Score: 2, Informative


    Marketers usually have about four levels of reported performance adjectives for any given product introduction:

    - Great
    - Super
    - Super-Duper
    - Overwhelming

    Any marketer caught expressing anything other than the pre-approved terminology is summarily shot (or so I hear).

  9. Re:damage control, eh? by EverdredReturns · · Score: 1

    At most stores when you buy a DS now it comes with Super Mario 64 DS for free, which is a $30 game. So, in some respects, the DS has already dropped in price to $120.

    For the PSP, there have been talks that they'll soon sell the system by itself (no memory stick, etc.) for $200, about the price it goes for in Japan right now. Though you'll have to go out and buy your own memory stick, this is likely to draw in more potential buyers, especially those who don't really like all of the stuff in the Value Pack.

    As far as the perception of good system with good games, I believe Nintendo did a pretty good job of portraying that at this year's E3. A lot of big games are coming out for the DS (Castlevania, Mario Kart, new Super Mario, etc.), plus they announced their plans to have online play with the system. All of this commotion helped draw people away from the PSP's showing at E3. Not only that, but Sony presented the image that they were a lot more focused on their upcoming PS3 than on the PSP right now with their announcements, so people will probably feel less confident about the PSP's future. You're likely to have more people picking up a DS than a PSP this fall.

    I also think that many will choose only one of the two to buy rather than both. They aren't like consoles where you can have your XBox, PS2, and GC all hooked up to the same TV and switch between them easily; you're most likely carrying these around in your pocket or whatever. Having two different portable systems would be much more of a hassle and be more costly, unless you were to start treating one of the two less like a portable (by, say, only playing your DS at home and taking your PSP with you on trips).

  10. Still not good, though, is it? by javaxman · · Score: 1
    Ok, a Sony marketing spokesdroid puts UMD sales at 'between' 200,000 and 500,000.

    It's hard to believe they don't have more reliable data, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt. What the heck. I have nothing against Sony ( except a distaste for proprietary memory card formats and MagicGate, admittedly ).

    500,000 still seems like a small number when you consider that's the same number of PSPs that sold in the US during the first two days after it's launch. Especially when you consider there's no way 500k UMDs have actually sold...

    What I'm really curious about is the previous statement that "25 movies" would be available on UMD for the European release. It seems like an odd statement because there are 113 UMD movies listed on Amazon right now. Why wouldn't the same 113 titles be ready for europe? Is the market not there ? Odd...

    1. Re:Still not good, though, is it? by Babbster · · Score: 1
      What I'm really curious about is the previous statement that "25 movies" would be available on UMD for the European release. It seems like an odd statement because there are 113 UMD movies listed on Amazon right now. Why wouldn't the same 113 titles be ready for europe? Is the market not there ? Odd...

      Probably because 85(!) of the titles listed at your link are "Not Yet Released" which, of course, means that there's a thrilling 28 UMD movie titles available for the PSP in the US right now.