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Apple to Become Wireless Provider?
nonsuchworks writes "Forbes reports on the possibility of Apple becoming a 'mobile virtual network operator,' or MVNO, in order to extend the iTunes and iPod brands into the cellular phone market. This would allow Apple to circumvent the cellular carriers who have so far balked at carrying the iTunes-enabled mobile phone." From the article: "It might sound far-fetched, but the pieces are in place for it to happen later this summer. Apple is already developing a hybrid iPod/cell phone with handset maker Motorola. And companies ranging from the Virgin Group to The Walt Disney Co. are proving that a new network model can allow all kinds of businesses to easily enter the mobile market."
This is about as likely as Apple switching to Intel x86 chips... oh.. wait.
The "hybrid iPod/cell phone" this guy is talking about is just a phone with a "iTunes" on it. I put that in quotes because it's obviously not iTunes. It's a tiny program, probably Java, that plays Apple's AAC files from the iTunes Music Store and looks sort of like the iPod color interface, if the pictures floating around the web are to be believed.
"hybrid iPod/cell phone" Ha!
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
I always thought that Apple should have made some sort of uber-wi(fi|max) iPod so that iPodders could stream the internet radio stations on an iPod like they could on iTunes. And besides, if it all works out as predicted, this could help crush Bill Gates' dream of destroying iTunes and the iPod and their dominance over the digital music market. It sounds like fun :)
Perfecting Discordia
www.stevenvansickle.com
MVNO
Apparently we have exhausted all the good TLAs and must venture further into FLAs.
This is an unfortunate start as it looks/sounds like
mv? no.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
Who actually listens to music on their cellphone anyway? When's the last time a company built a cellphone just for the purpose of making and receiving calls?
Apple continues to do absolutely everything possible to do everything they can except enter the PDA market.
So expect increasingly powerful phones, increasingly powerful mp3 players, everything else, but as soon as you suspect they might try to harness that power or color screen or brand recognition power to do anything useful, or suggest they could challenge the PocketPC's increasingly total dominance of its segment before it becomes impossible to enter the market, or suggest they could pull out some of the truckload of IP and good ideas they're sitting on from the Newton... GACK! NO! NO SOUP FOR YOU!
When is the last time you saw someone with a cell phone from one of those so-called competitors?
This is a big market for a company to jump into. Apple may be doing well, but they are no Virgin or Walt Disney, and they don't have those kind of resources.
Apple has surprised us all before at one time or another, but I'm going to say it anyway: I don't think this would happen.
-Daniel
Walmart already has a big network in place. Install a WiFi Max mobile station at each WalMart and you have close to an instant cell network not to mention ISP, and Cable TV replacement. I for one welcome our Walmart overlords.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
OK, so this is one of those "well, I just pulled this idea out of my ass so I could write my column thought".
But if nothing else, it's a very interesting one. Several commentators, including Bill Gates, have stated that they believe that the cell phone will overtake the iPod. You're more likely to carry around a cell, it has an established system of purchasing music (among other things), and so on.
Granted, I still take that with a heavy grain of salt, considering that my own PDA/phone (Treo 650) tends to go about a full day on the charge, and that's from a heavy user who uses it for email, AIM, speech, ebook reading, notes, calendar, and so on. I have to make sure I plug it in before I go to bed. My iPod lasts a bit longer (though if I used it as much as the Treo, it would probably die as quickly, if not faster). The iPod is just a better interface for music, and crappy for all else.
So the concept that Apple could go after the wireless market isn't so far fetched. Would anyone have thought of them a major player in the music industry? They have a brand name that's good (if not growing), and it would be a good way to suppliment the PC business. And it would remove some problems. Right now, according to the rumors, most wireless carriers don't want to carry the iTunes Mobile Phone because it would cut into their business.
So, fine: Apple makes their own service and gives the finger to the phone companies. How many iPod users (and Mac heads) would switch?
For it to work, they would need:
Capital - check, they still have a few billion left in the bank.
Manufacturing - check, not a major problem
Engineers - check, though they'd probably need to hire some
Wireless access points - Hm.... That may be a reach, but as the article points out (yes, I did RTFA) if Disney can do it, so can Apple. Whether that means they go out and buy someone, or just buy up/rent the wireless access points, they certainly have the means and the business acumen. Jobs has demonstrated the ability to negotiate in the past, if done right (say like the current Sprint model I'm using, where $40 gives 500 minutes, and an extra $15 gets me unlimited Internet access), they could make it work. Make the phones a combo phone/802.11 device for Skype/Gizmo like communications, and those Airports become all the more useful to their business model. Or start installing WiMax stations around the country for the same effect.
So, points to the author for coming up with a possibly viable idea. Will Apple do it? Probably not now - they have enough risk on their hands with the shift to the Intel processors and dealing with a potential loss of sales over the next 18-24 months. But if the wireless companies continue to play hardball with Jobs's (note to the picky: his name is Steve Jobs, the plural then becomes Jobs's, thank you) music domination plans, he might just do an end around.
We'll see. Most of this I'm pulling out of my ass, so of course I could be wrong.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
that a half-baked story predicting that Google will enter the wireless provider market in order to support the foray into their online music business. GMusic store will allow you search 7 billion recordings using lyrics, instruments used, and sound patterns.
.NET, .ORG, ethic, combinatorial global business synergies and leverage points and Windows on the Power PC.
Also, in 3 to 6 months Microsoft will apologize to their employees, customers, and vendors for falling so far behind as an MVNP and music distributor. But Balmer will commit to catching Apple, Google, and AllOfMp3.com within the next 3 to 4 quarters. It's Microsoft's top priority next to releasing Longhorn, WinFS, security, DRM, the next version of SQL Server, Exchange 2007,
Lastly, Apple frustrated with the iPOD to car stereo interfaces and refusal by many automobile manufacture to integrate the iPOD directly into their automobiles will purchase an Korean automobile company and begin manufacturing iCars. These cars will include new design innovations including ergonomic steering wheels and see through dash panels. Initially the automobiles will run on Honda gasoline engines, but Jobs will announce in the first 4 years of production that the iCar (and soon to be released iSUV) will switch to Toyota engines that can run on electricity, gasoline, jet-fuel, whiskey, and the sweat of some breeds of Tibetan mountain goats.
Step aside Dvorak I have spoken.
Or is there something I am unaware of here?
CS: It is all sink or swim...oh and did I mention there are sharks in that water?
Apple can decide what goes on the phone and control the user experience. They don't have to put on every bell and whistle that Cingular or Verizon wants. Nor do they have to cripple features like bluetooth or limit syncing to over the network.
.Mac, iCal & Address Book. Some widgets would be nice too!
I would love to see tight integration with
The phone has been "ready" for a while now.
Starting their own company gives them more control, but they also have all these other big companies that are going to try to run them out of business. However, if Apple sticks to its $.99 per song and allows people to use a full song for a ringtone rather than selling crappy midi files for $2.50 that play 10 bars of some obscure part of the song, they might put a dent in the other company.
I understand that Apple is trying to expand and stay one step ahead of the competition (especially with Microsoft wanting to get in on the market), but it seems like Apple is starting to wander out of its realm a little bit, which makes me think of another company that tries to do everything and usually ends up with a subpar product that is beaten by a company that focuses on that area.
Then again, if the other big phone companies aren't willing to play ball (which they probably aren't. Would you want to stop charging ridiculous amounts for a ringtone?) what choice does Apple have other than this one?
Hopefully they'll make a product that's fair to the consumer. Basically, I'd want good coverage, the ability to upload songs I've already purchased, and the same $.99 to purchase a song on my phone. Capacity for 100+ songs would be nice as well. Price doesn't matter since you can give it away for a lot less than it costs when you make someone sign a service plan for a few years.
If it met those conditions, I might consider getting one.
Wireless is a thing of the future, everything, eventually, will be wireless (unless an evironment or process forbids it).
Also, combining devices is also a thing of the future..it doesn't make sense to have 3 different devices with three different chargers that can't communicate, or communicate with some beat-arse protocol
It was destined that the iPod, since it is the defacto portable music player would become wireless, integrated with a cellphone, and eventually into a PDA/ICBM launcher.
The integration could go the other way, with the cellphone becoming the Mp3 player, but since the iPod is proven, and has a large fan-base (who in all likely-hood own cellphones), going in this direction will snare many more people.
This would allow Apple to circumvent the cellular carriers who have so far balked at carrying the iTunes-enabled mobile phone
Odd statement, considering that phones which interoperate with iTunes have already been spotted in the wild.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
I've always wanted the cell-phone/iPod/PDA/scooter/mobile sink/microwave oven/television myself.
Let's quit paying lip service to convergance and really get there folks!
It looks like if they'll be doing this, they'll just be piggybacking on Sprint or CDMA or whatever those wacky kids are using these days. The acronym "MVNO" was used.
So if you were hoping for someone to finally break down and start providing 802.16, or make steps toward some other real city-scale wireless internet access protocol becoming a consumer reality, looks like you'll still be waiting awhile.
And from my limited knowlege of the subject, it seems like someone sitting in that MVNO seat rather than taking the step forward into something WiMax-like would be okay with periodic for-pay one-shot downloads like downloading an MP3, but not so okay with allowing some kind of continuous data stream operation (like internet radio would represent) without charging a relatively hefty fee...
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Merging a cellphone with an iPod make sense. A hands-free mic on the earbud wire would be all that an ipod needs. The thing could even auto-switch between cell and playback modes -- automatically pausing the song (and announcing the caller-id) when a call comes in and returning to the tunes when the call is over. A virtual keypad overlay on the jog wheel could provide a numeric keypad for dialing but most people would probably sync the iPod with iCal or some PC-based PIM and use the wheel to select the number.
One device on the belt and one device for the ears.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Another PDA cellphone? Unless it's very easy to use, I wouldn't think it would be popular. However, I can imagine a cellphone that was integrated with an iPod -- the two devices, in general, are similar in size, etc.
But I would not think integrating iTunes into a cellphone would be a great idea. Using iTunes on my computer is great (and I've stopped buying CDs since downloading iTunes), but that interface wouldn't translate well onto a cellphone-sized screen.
And don't get me started about watching TV on cellphones...
Synchronize your calendar and mobile phone via text messaging.
even just the rumor of this might be enough to spur the current American cell providers to offer internet service somebody might actually find useful...
I could easily see one of these phones with 100 song capacity selling for as low as $150. You'll be selling your soul and signing a 2 year service agreement though.
My Dad got a phone for $80 with a plan. After he accidentally ran over it about a year later, it would have cost him over $300 to buy a replacement phone that was either the same model or similar to the one he had.
One of these phones probably won't cost much more than an iPod with similar storage capacity.
I am looking forward to a handset that costs 2x as much as the average, but has far more fashion and street cred! (I NEED people to LOOK AT ME!)
Hopefully it will come w/ a stylish and sophisticated laniard so you can wear the device around your neck... and of course the option to purchase other laniards that match your outfit.
The iTunes Ringtone Store? Ack!
-Brad V.
one button cell phone work? Or do we get one of those spiffy thumbwheel doohickeys?
antipaucity
Very interesting. I suppose if this takes off, you could buy the iPod Cell phone and a wireless plan at the Apple Store with prepaid minutes like you can at Virgin now. Given that cell phones have become something of a fashion accessory, Apple could have a great deal of success in that market even if their wireless plan ended up being pricier than the competition. Imagine all of those current iPod owners who would happily dump that current cell phone in favor of Apple's new hybrid. Mo money, mo money mo money! As Bill Gates can attest to, one of the secrets of long term success is to get your customers to keep buying the same products from you periodically!
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
Being that Deutsche Telekom has been rumoured to be shopping around T-Mobile, this could be the property Apple should be looking in.
T-Mobile is profitable and fast growing, however, the carrier is said to require a $10 billion investment in order to extend their coverage one standard deviation, to stay competitive with Sprint and Cingular.
T-Mobile and Cingular both use GSM with its IP like structure carries data with the minimum of encasuplation and overhead, and while Cingular has leaped ahead with its EDGE 3G rollout, T-Mobile is stuck at any average of 56k on its GPRS network.
T-Mobile doesn't have the subscriber base that Cingular has, but it does have enough network capacity for its community - unlike Cingular that is oversubscribed, and faces the challenges of integrating disparate network types - Analog, TDMA and GSM, into a single GSM-Edge network.
Anyway, if Apple can bring their brand perception to T-Mobile, and roll out custom handsets that take advantage of T-Mobile ubiquitious internet service, this may be the birth of a subscriber based iTunes on demand, allowing customers to listen to streaming, 40k AAC stream, today, over existing tech.
T-Mobile has the network, sufficient speed and is for sale - Apple has the product and the technology to make 56k worthwhile as a communications medium.
"I've always said I want a Cell-Phone/iPod/PDA all in one unit. Looks like it's almost time to empty out my bank account and truly become an Apple Fanboy! :)"
:)
I want an iTunes capable phone, but I won't be buying it if Motorola makes it in a "candybar" form instead of the more popular "flip phone" style. From personal experience, I've received stronger signals from the flip phones. Motorola should bring out a RAZR 2.0 phone with more physical memory, an SD (or whatever) flash memory slot, and iTunes/AAC+Fairplay compatible phone. I might not want to buy tunes over the mobile network, but I certainly want to use my iTunes tracks as ringtones.
Issuing a "candybar" phone to the public at this point reminds me of Atari bringing the Falcon computer to the market in the old school 1040ST case when probably 90% of the interested buyers wanted the machine manufactured in a separate case/detached keyboard like the MegaST/STE & TT lines were. I'm sure the Amiga fanboys on here would also agree with the sentiment in relation to the Amiga 500 and 600 models... But I digress...
"Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
But can it allow me to put people on hold and force them to enjoy my musical selections?
Will they have a Tom Jones edition?
These are the burning questions.
One ring to bind them - should probably have more fiber and less rings in their diet.
These business gyrations are all based on the monopoly model. Mobile telcos have monopolies on access to their customers: witness their blocking the iPodPhone because they demand a "royalty" for every download, even when their network isn't in the loop (synced to a computer which downloaded over the wired Internet). Record labels are in the critical path, because their cartel insists on collecting a toll on music transactions, even when they're out of the loop (fair use of copyright in listening to your own home music collection across the mobile Internet). Even Apple is consistent with this model: they're in the lead with negotiations with those other "legs" of the path from the musician to your ears, while they run their little empire as the sole supplier of their OS and HW, while enforcing "look and feel" to the narrowest spec in the industry.
We are teetering on the watershed, between mobile multimedia network terminals ("phones") which do whatever we want, constrained only by our imagination and sustainable monetization, and a vertical stack of monopolies controlling the pipeline to your senses. It looks like the odds, the big money, all favor the monopoly. Which sounds terrible.
--
make install -not war
When I read the Slashdot article title, I got the impression Apple was considering building its own complete cellular network. But the article doesn't seem to be saying that at all.
Rather, they're talking about what amounts to "VARs (value added resellers)" in the world of computers.
Companies like ESPN, Disney or Apple just pay one of the existing cellular companies (like Sprint) for rights to use their infrastructure - and they resell customized phones that do some things the carrier doesn't wish to offer with the phones packaged on their regular plans.
Big deal!?! I grant that this might, indeed, be a way for Apple to get their way rolling out phones that play iTunes purchased music and still sync with PCs - but what else does it really offer anyone?
The cellular carriers are still going to call all the shots as far as prices to use their networks - so they're not likely to give Apple some sort of huge discount. Therefore, I'd say you can expect monthy pricing to be the same or higher than you pay now. And if you have issues such as poor reception, slow data xfer rates, or customer service hassles with your carrier, that won't change either.
I love this for two reasons. iPods are incredibly useful and well designed. Who'd have thought you need your entire 200 CD collection with you at all times? But now that I do, I can't live without it. So I'm not so impressed by this device as I am about the upcoming Nokia N91 which will have a 4GB hard drive onboard. Sure, they're making higher capacity SD & MMC cards, but 512 MB just isn't quite enough space for a really useful MP3 player. So I like the route Nokia is taking.
The other thing I love about this is that a big company, Apple, is trying to do an end-around of the telcos and the cable internet providers. And sure, I know they're not taking them head-on, and this is just a rumor at this point, but we gotta turn up the competition if we're ever going to see a really dynamic internet. The promise of a digital commons just isn't playing out like we'd want, and I think the "owners" of the networks are largely to blame. So kudos to Apple for seeing this and taking some steps toward busting up that logjam.
Their logic on the matter is this.
Beginning computer users (beginners includes those who never become competent regardless of number of real life years they have used the system) have a great deal of difficulty with applications that utilize multiple mouse buttons. Because the apple ships with a single mouse button any program which expects to have beginning users cannot make use of multiple mouse buttons. The result is a less steep learning curve when people switch to Apple. On the other hand the other half of the user base is perfectly willing to install a multi-button external mouse and use context menus and or use keyboard + mouse combinations.
The result is that the system is essentially the same for advanced users however the ease of use is much higher for beginners.
You've got that all wrong. Only geeks want to carry around a Batman's utility belt full of gadgets.
If you don't lust after Batman's utility belt, you're not the geek you think you are. At minimum, your belt should have cell phone and an iPod. Maybe a smallish GPS device? And of course, a grappling hook...
Sure, my wife would make fun of me. But if I came across a utility belt half as cool and half as full of useful gadgets as Batman's, I'd wear it almost every day...
Practical, sane, non-gadget-crazy individuals like yourself don't want to carry more electronic devices than can comfortably fit in a pants pocket. Because they're afraid they'll look too geeky...
... I occasionally give a training session at work about the architecture and organization of the internet, including covering things like the domain registration hierarchy (ICANN/RIR/LIR/registrar/reseller/customer), ASN's and of course, IP allocation. I usually use some phrase like "ARIN handed out IP space like crazy at the start, so companies like Ford and Apple got a whole class A each. Apple could become an ISP if it wanted to."
Heh. Maybe Ford is next?
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
Seriously, if your big gripe is the mouse, then Apple is definitely doing something right.
For the beginning user, one mouse button is easiest. Take your grandmother (or, rather, mine) and try to explain right-clicking. Sure, she can get it, but it takes a little time (she likes to double-right-click and often mis-clicks the left button for the right or presses the center activating both buttons).
For the rest of us, is it such a big deal we have to guy pay $10-$70 for a multi-button mouse? Sure, I wish Apple at least gave the option with a new Mac, but come on, is this worth an entire thread over? Or rather, again? The post was about Apple becoming a phone company.
I'm not sure how I feel about apple becoming a cell company. Would I buy an iPod/Phone? Doubtful. I'd rather have an all-in-one PDA that plays music instead of an iPod that makes phone calls. My Treo plays MP3s, does AIM, surfs, has a Nintendo emulator, as well as my calendar and work emails being constantly in sync wirelessly. I'd rather be able to subscribe to the iTunes cell service on my phone than buy an iPod phone.
But, then, I'm still a bit cautious about this whole itunes on the phone. Given the spotty cell reception I get, any sort of streaming service would be painful at best.
Who cares, honestly--and more to the point, who actually uses those RSI inducing apple mice for more than a few days? Grandmas, and people who want their mouse to look like their Apple. Think about it... It's true!
Why do they need to go right clicking about when they have a hard enough time double clicking (witness Windows XP)? That's right, they don't, and even if they did, they wouldn't be sure how to go about it.
Nobody bitches about Dell or Gateway giving away relatively cheap, underfeatured mouses by default... And even if Apple did make some uber-mouse that is the bestest of the best in every respect, there'd still be people complaining about it, how it adds a hundred-fifty bucks to their computer price, and how it dosen't do what they want, or how the design makes their hand fall off, or how they like trackballs or tablets, or those little nubby things better for whatever reason.
It's just better to let people get what they want on the free market--where users drive innovation--than to constantly invest huge resources making a product that tries to be everything to everyone.
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Via a Bluetooth enabled iPhone? Download and share? Somebody will hack this feature in.
that would be so sweet! everyone's been wanting to have wireless headphones with their ipod. although logitech has come out with an excellent product:
s /US/EN,CRID=2439,CONTENTID=10540
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/detail
(i like how it even has a remote control on the headphones)
the $150 price tag is quite hefty.
with bluetooth, we're now open to any bluetooth headphones accessible!
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