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Wired Strongarms Subscribers?
yali writes "Wired has apparently been sinking to some rather low tactics with ex-subscribers. Namely, siccing a collections agency on them. If you let your subscription run out, you might get one of these. Nerds beware." From the article: "First came the usual letters warning McMillan, 36, that his subscription was up and that he wouldn't get any more copies of Wired unless he ponied up some cash. Then Wired's correspondence took a different turn. In May, McMillan received a letter from North Shore Agency, a leading debt-collection firm. The letter, headed 'Please Respond,' said he owed $12 for his Wired subscription."
Uhh that graphic linked on is dated "July 11, 2002" How is this recent news?
He was on automatic renewal and didn't know it. Moral: read the fine print before sending the subscription card in.
Poster - could you make Wired sound any more evil? Or did you
not read their explanation either.
The problem is that they may trash your credit rating. Having a delinquency on your credit report is not a good thing and I think they take like 7 years to clear.
Also beware of Best Buy's Sports Illustrated free 6 issue offer, once it runs out they hit you for $29.99 because you didn't "opt out."
See: http://www.wired.com/news/feedback/
For new Wired magazine subscriptions e-mail subscriptions@wiredmag.com or call 800-SOWIRED (800-769-4733) inside the U.S. and Canada or 303-678-0354 from all other countries. Hey, it's a free call on their dime!
Public Relations, for a good time contact:
Kathy O'Reilly, Kathy.O'Reilly@lycos-inc.com,
Direct#: 781-370-3454
Snail Mail Wired News
660 3rd Street, 1st Floor
San Francisco, CA 94107
For the VoIP users:
Phone: 415-276-8400
Fax: 415-276-8500
If the letter is regarding legit debt, like an overdue credit card bill, then they can continue to send you letters and/or call you, within certain limits.
If you reply in writing that you don't believe that the debt is legit, as in they say you owe them for a mag subscription, but you never signed up for such, they have to stop pending further investigation. Usually, it ends here.
Know your rights, and don't be afraid to push back. Even if a collection agency is after you for legit debt, there are limits to what they are allowed to do.
This Wired thing, on the other hand, is bogus. It's just a "renew, please!" letter written to said vaguely legally threatening.
Tom
"Collection agencies have absolutely NO teeth at all, they only thing they can do is send you scary looking letter and perhaps a few threatening phone calls...."
Well, most of them pack a little more punch than that. However, you have to realize that there is a difference between a $12 debt and a $12,000 debt.
After having to deal with the idiots at Paypal in one of these cases, here are a few things that I've learned. I feel it's kind of important to note that I'm not an expert, I didn't go to school for any of this, and your results may vary. I'm just giving you information straight from the gift-horse, if you will. Also, this should only be used for small debts. If you're not aware that there is a difference between $200 and $20,000, then you're probably in this situation for a reason.
1. When the debt collection agency calls you or send you a letter, the most important thing is to keep your cool. Don't freak out.
2. If they call you by phone, absolutely under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you continue speaking over the phone. Basically, if they call you, they should identify themselves, and then next words out of your mouth should be, "I only wish to communicate via postal mail." Say nothing else. Do not admit you have debt. Do not admit that you don't have a debt. Don't deny anything, don't even tell them your name. Just say, "I only wish to communicate via postal mail", wait for a response, and hang up--if they try and push, just keep repeating that line. If the continue calling you after that, you can then take them to small claims court.
3. Eventually, you will get a letter from them asking you to cough up the money. You'll probably have XX amount of days to reply to the letter that they send you. Do NOT just throw away the letter and pretend these people will go away. If you don't reply, then they can start pulling out their big guns (e.g. listing wonderful stuff on your credit report, etc). Basically, you have two roads you can take at this point. You can either choose to pay, or you can try your luck at bullshitting out of your debt. If you did nothing wrong, or if the debt is for, say, less than $1,000, use the latter. If your in some pretty hefty debt, I can't really tell you what to do in that case. Anyways, if you choose route number two, send a written letter along these lines (set it up as a business letter, I know you know how to!):
"To Whom It May Concern:
I have received your collection letter regarding the $[DOLLAR_AMOUNT] that you claim I owe. This is my response to that claim.
I am formally disputing the validity of this debt in its entirety. Please forward me complete copies of all documentation that you and [COMPANY] have to verify this debt. You have 30 days from the date of this letter to send me complete copies of all documentation, otherwise I will consider this debt to be completely invalid and all further collection efforts must cease immediately.
Sincerely,
[NAME_HERE]"
When you send your letter in response to the debt collection letter you receive, be sure to make a copy of it. Also send the letter registered with return receipt requested. Take the letter to the post office, and get the letter registration receipt postmarked, save the receipt from the post office, and save the return receipt when you get it. KEEP EVERYTHING. If you do end up going to court, then you can use all this documentation against them.
Once they receive the letter, they then have 30 days to send you all the documentation that proves you owe the money. In this letter, do NOT include any information, statements other than what I said, what happened, what you have done, or anything else. KEEP IT SIMPLE. Actually, I'd suggest just copying and pasting that letter.
If after 45 days you havn't gotten a response, your debt is gone. There is nothing further that they can do to force you to pay the money, including listing the debt on your credit report, etc. By not responding they have said (accord
Must be why they got class-action sued over their late-fees policies and they lost!
The funny thing about their current system is that a "2-day rental" is due back the third day by noon. However, there are no "late" fees now. 7 days past the due date they will just charge you an additional $12-$15 and you own the movie. Within 30 days of that charge you can reverse the purchase for a $1.25 "restocking fee". I read their fine print and didn't see anything about that 7-day period between when the rental is due and when they charge me for buying the movie. So, long story short all of my blockbuster rentals are now 9-day rentals for $4.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson
Actually, there are ways to deal with this. While I don't want to go into details here, and IANAL, most of my clients are, and one of them (who is also a close friend) has told me how to handle collections like this.
Basically, respond in writing and dispute the debt. Tell them not to contact you and to contact your lawyer. ALL collection agencies don't worry about letters like this (btw, send it return receipt requested). Just wait and they will contact you again. When they do, file suit in local court. They will literally end up owing you $1000 for a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. If you want details look it up. (I'm not making this up, and it is true!)
If they report on your credit report that you owe the money and you don't, that's a violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act, and if you can prove damages (like "I had perfect credit, and lost out on this chance because of one bad report"), you can collect a heck of a lot more.
Yes, deliquencies lower your score quite a bit - even one. You can however fight back.
You can file a dispute. The credit agencies will take things off unless the creditor/debt collection agency validates the debt. Federal Law: Fair Credit Reporting Act
If they do - and it is invalid - they just violated the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. $1000 civil penalty, payable to you. Just putting it on your credit is likely an offense ($1000). 3 credit agencies, so if they play full hard ball, you can end up collecting $6000.
If you didn't renew - the issues that come to you are unsolicited. Federal law says you may not be billed for unsolicited mail.
KNOW THE LAW.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
The "Drop Dead Letter": clicky
Fine Print: IANAL, IANAA (I am not an American)
There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
They weren't ex-customers. They had subscribed to a rewnewing subscription. They were current subscribers who had become delinquent in their payments.
Try reading the article next time.
Vermifax
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My little brother got one of those offers to try PC Gamer magazine; getting an issue or two, he signed up, being told that he would get a bill and could cancel after such time. He never actually received a single issue, but he did get the invoice from them. Since he had yet to get the issue, he ignored the invoice, awaiting his issue so he could decide if he wanted to subscribe or not.
At this point, some more time passed, and he then began getting collection notices on this bill for a magazine he never even got the trial issues.
We had written 'CANCEL' on numerous of the PC gamer invoices, and returned them, but heard nothing back, and the collection notices continued.
We then contacted the collection company who tried to tell us to notify PC Gamer, which I explained that we've tried numerous times, but no action has been taken -- and they reluctantly removed us from their collection system, and apparently also removed our PC Gamer subscription, clearing everything up.
Seems like a lot of effort to try to go for, for a $20/yr magazine subscription.
This all occured over nearly a one-year period, so there was more than sufficient time in between each action to account for snail mail.
May this post be indexed by spiders, and archived for all to see as my Internet epitaph.
About 1-2 years ago this happened to me.
As the claims were ludicrous, I immediately sent the collection agency Clark Howard's drop dead letter, by certified mail.
After that, they cannot ever contact you again about that debt, and no, it will not effect your credit one way or another. (WIRED basically lost that right when they agreed to let a collection agency try to get the money for them... oversimplifying it.)
They really shot themselves in the foot, because up until that time, I would buy the magazine off the newsstand even when I let my subscription lapse. Since I got that letter, I've never bought a copy of WIRED again.
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
How are you going to cash a check that's made out to another pervert?
I don't know about cheques (used in the United Kingdom), but checks (used in the United States) can have two endorsements on the back when presented to a bank; as long as the first matches "Pay to the order of" and the second matches the ID of the person presenting the check, it's negotiable as a "third party check". That's part of why you shouldn't endorse a check unless you'll immediately be handing it to a bank teller or cashier or putting it in an envelope. Many retailers do not take third party checks, but U.S. financial institutions usually accept them for deposit.
If you file a criminal complaint, the phone company will cough up Providian's phone records on police request. If, over the course of a month, there are daily calls of 1 minute 8 times a day along with calls to your mother, etc. somebody's getting arrested.
Just because caller ID won't give you their number doesn't mean that it's irretrievable. It just means that you have to file the right paperwork. Go get a free consultation with a lawyer and confirm the details for your jurisdiction.
...and I know just enough about debt collection law to know that I don't know enough to comment much on this. Oh, and that you certainly shouldn't accept legal advice from ANYONE on slashdot. Including me.
The FDCPA, however, generally applies to third-party debt collectors. If I recall correctly, most people simply run afoul of the Act when they fail to include the required "This communication is an attempt to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose blah blah blah" language on the letter. Usually it's because companies/lawyers don't realize the law applies to them and they end up owing a $1000 fine per occurrence.
The FCRA is also a useful tool for consumers to make sure big companies don't bully them around, but at this hour I can't remember enough about it to really post anything resembling an educated comment. However, it's more complicated than the original poster suggests.
However, another very important set of resources available to consumers are state consumer protection laws. Generally you can find these on your state Attorney General's homepage, and there are detailed instructions for nonlawyers about your rights, the notice and filing requirements and deadlines, and pros and cons of filing a complaint with the AG versus filing on your own. Frequently they follow a similar model, and often involve a requirement that before filing suit for consumer protection violations, you provide a demand letter with 30 days' written notice and an opportunity to settle the claim without going to court.
If the question is not "someone says I owe them money and I don't think I do," but rather that "a magazine renewed my subscription without my consent and then attempted to bill me for it," it seems to me that your state AG's webpage would be a good place to start. Usually there are brochures. With pretty pictures.
[ And now for the standard disclaimer: Legal advice is given by an attorney duly admitted to practice law after confidentially and candidly hearing your version of the facts and applying a specialized analysis of the facts and relevant law. This, however, is a silly post on the Internets, and not legal advice. No attorney-client privilege is created with anyone as a result of this post. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. If legal advice is what you want, go hire a competent lawyer. Don't ask slashdot. ]
I seem to recall quite a few magazines doing this to me over the years. Are they REALLY going to put a $12 debit on your credit report and risk retaliatory legal action? Hell no. They just send out letters hoping to make you afraid enough to cough up money, and that's it.
I can vouch, having ignored many of these "payment due" notices from magazines. They have not once shown on a credit report from any agency, which I check every year.
Doesn't it cost them some money anyway just to file a complaint with a credit agency? it seems like it would cost them a lot more than they would gain if they actually filed reports on people.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For the simple reason that I do not feel like writing paragraphs upon paragraphs, I will not go into the vast number of incorrect assertions made in this post.
I would however suggest that you do not take any of this post as any sort of advice, legal or not, as it is entirely incorrect on many many points.
Writing a letter giving them a 30 day deadline is not legally binding. Both sides would have to agree to such a contract and there's no way they would agree to that.
Also, telling them over the phone to cease verbal contact has no meaning at all in most/all states. Request of that nature must be done in writing by mail.
Also, that letter will accomplish nothing as you never asked them to cease communication in it. The owner, original lender or not, is still fully entitled AND REQUIRED BY LAW to report the current status of the debt within a certain time period.
Oh look, I ended up writing a bunch anyway. To sum it all up, the advice in the above post is as phoney as my spelling of baloney. Don't take my word for it either, go look it up.
I too, some years back, received one of the TransWorld Services collections letters on behalf of BlockBuster regarding some late fees.
I've been renting movies since the betamax days, and, as neurojab says, the custom on late fees was always to settle up on the next rental, which I always gladly did. Back then, most places would even offer to waive the fees if it was only a day or so late, especially for good repeat customers. In BlockBuster's defense, a lot of these shops were Mom-and-Pops who actually knew who their customers were. When the chains took over, the late fee waviers were, of course, sacrificed on the altar of corporate greed. But at least you still paid the late fees on your next visit - until I got the letter.
Needless to say, upon receipt of the collection letter, being both a gentleman and a scholar, I paid promptly as directed.
I also have not rented from BlockBuster since, and never will again. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thought this was an idiotic way to treat good customers. I try to recruit family, friends, and acquaintances into my BlockBuster boycott whenever the occasion presents itself, hence this somewhat redundant post.
Let's do the math - $12 in late fees (which would have collected on my next visit anyway) and the TVM bonanza on the accelerated A/R (which probably didn't exceed 25 to 50 cents) less the TransWorld fees and other program overhead (probably close to $4-$6 bucks per letter), vs $300-$500 per year (for life) in rentals, candy, popcorn, and yes, late fees from a happy customer... Hmmm, a really sharp trade-off - I'd really like to meet the MBA-marketing genius who came up with this program - he/she must have been the one who slept through the course that talked about the cost of customer acquisition and retention in competetive industries!
I grimace at the hypocrosy of this article coming from the SF Chronicle.
A couple years ago the SF Chronicle tried several times to try to get me and my roommates to subscribe using some rather underhanded techniques.
1) They would call claiming to need to verify some account information. Funny - we never had an account with them. Being niave, I stayed on the line and I confirmed my address. Then he mumbles something that you can barely make out and then clearly read out my address and asked "is that correct"? Suspicious and not having clearly heard everything he just said, I answer "I'm not approving any charges". He hangs up on me.
2) They call again a few days later and after identifying themselves I quickly say we're not interested. "But you have an unpaid balance" he claims. I argue with him and he shortly tells me he'll have a manager talk to me. "Fine," I think, "I'll sort it out with the manager". The manager pulls the same crap as in 1). He mumbles off something about a subcription price that's barely intelligible, reads of my address clearly, and then asked "is that correct?". Again I say "I don't want to subscribe and I'm not approving any charges," and he hangs up on me.
On one call, I even pulled the "put us on your do-not-call list" line (This was before the nation-wide one was in effect) and the guy claimed "This isn't a sales call. You have an unpaid balance". On the last call I'm yelling at the guy and call them out on their underhanded techniques of bundling two questions into one in an attempt to trick us into subscribing. Never heard from them again after that.
"decidedly uncool tactics" indeed.
"To sum it all up, the advice in the above post is as phoney...[omitted lame joke]"
I guess you really didn't bother to read, did you?
"After having to deal with the idiots at Paypal in one of these cases, here are a few things that I've learned. I feel it's kind of important to note that I'm not an expert, I didn't go to school for any of this, and your results may vary."
Clear, simple, and in plain English. I think that should about sum it up. The information I used came from a compilation of many paypalsucks.com forum posts. Nearly all of the "advice" I listed was from people that have had similar dealings with the great folks at Paypal and had success with the methods they used.
For you to call this "phoney," it would mean that the advice didn't work and was complete and blatant bullshit. Contrary to your disbelief, it does work. I've seen it work from a first-person point of view (and, no, I was not in debt to Paypal, it was Paypals fault and they refused to fix the problem). Can you say the same? I doubt it considering the fact you're calling it "phoney."
I more than made it a point to clearly state at the begining that these were merely things I learned, that I was not any sort of expert (and neither are you, by a long shot), and that results may vary. I don't know what more you're expecting. I just think it's kind of stupid to shoot down something that could help people in a similar situation or at least guide them in the right direction.
Oh, and just to further prove you have no clue what you're talking about:
"Therefore, if a consumer notifies a collector verbally that telephone calls are inconvenient, the collector should cease communicating with the consumer via telephone. Unless the consumer requests that all communications cease, however, the collector may continue to communicate with
the consumer in writing." (source: http://www.acainternational.org/?cid=6686)
"Writing a letter giving them a 30 day deadline is not legally binding."
I never once said it was meant to be legally binding. As the matter of fact, that was not even the point to begin with. It's meant to put a fire under their ass. They have a month to come up with the evidence--if they can't, then the original claim that the debt was invalid must be correct by default.
"Also, that letter will accomplish nothing as you never asked them to cease communication in it."
The idea was to get them to reply to the letter that was being sent to them claiming the debt was invalid, not to make them stop communicating. The 30 days is more than enough time to compile "evidence." If they ended up taking you to court, you could present your letter, show that you made an attempt to validate the debt (you have every right to do so), and they had no interest in providing you with any evidence. If they're not going to prove that someone owes them money, why the hell should someone pay? Would you honestly be willing to hand someone $1,000 if they randomly called you up on the phone one day? No? Interesting.
"Don't take my word for it either, go look it up."
I did look it up, and you were wrong. Good thing I didn't take your word for it, right?
And, let's be serious for a moment. A debt collecting company is going to take someone to court for a $500 debt? Please.
Are we all settled now? Yes? Good.
No, of course not. They are working for their shareholders, just like any other company. You, a customer, are simply a money source; nothing less, nothing more. Of course you are treated like a cash cow - that's what you are to them.
Why do people keep on expecting companies to care about anything besides profits, when companies exist only to make profit ? A company that puts anything above profits is not doing its duty towards its shareholders - the only duty it has. Simple as that.
A company that lets morals hinder its profit-making is betraying its shareholders.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
NSA isn't a real collections agency. About four years ago I was a member of the Scientific American Book Club when I received a bill for three books I never received. I called them up and disputed the bill, but they claimed that it was valid and refused to drop it. I even offered to pay the bill if they'd reship the books (they were good physics texts), but couldn't get them to budge. Since I was already well past my required minimum buy, I just told them to cancel my account.
Almost immediately I started receiving nasty collections letters from the precursor to the North Shore Agency. When I demanded that they stop contacting me, they REFUSED. It turns out that these guys aren't actually a collections agency...they're a billing clearinghouse used by several of the big publishing outfits. They ARE NOT legally a CRA, they CAN NOT place negative information on your credit report, and because they don't actually assume the debt, they can't even sue you for the bill.
Four years later, these idiots still send me nasty letters threatening undefined impending dire consequences every three months or so, but absolutely nothing has happened. I have no negative hits on my credit report, I have never recived a collections call, and no legal action has been attempted by anybody. These guys can bark a lot, but they are completely toothless when it comes time to back up their threats. Considering that my alleged $121 bill is far larger than those being levied against Wired subscribers, I'd guess that they'd go after me long before they go after them.
I quit caring about NSA collection letters a long time ago. My opinion nowadays is that if they want to waste the postage sending me a few letters a year, I'm perfectly content to throw them away with the rest of my junkmail.
There is nothing so pathetic as seeing a beautiful young theory roughed up by a tough gang of facts.
I have a rather unfortunate financial past, and learned a whole lot of lessons the hard way. A really sad story about going to college, parents not helping, trying to pay your own way, dropping out, winding up unemployed, etc. I will also note that credit cards never enter the picture. Usually past-due utilities, etc. I'm more or less out of the woods, so I'll shared my experiences. As everyone above has said, don't take my word or anyone else's on Slashdot as legal advice. This is simlpy personal experience here.
1. Never pay the collection agency. Never, ever ever ever pay the collection agency. They may have bought the debt, but the fact remains that they are not your debtor (and the law so far has seemed to be on my side on this one, most of the time you can't just say, "you don't owe me anymore, now you owe Bruno over here...", unless you dot all of the right "i"'s and all the right "t"'s, which collection agencies never do.
2. Pull your credit reports and dispute EVERYTHING negative. Don't miss a single one, and watch your wording. Go for duplicate instances first, in the above scenario when the original debtor had the account, they probably reported it, then sold it to a collections agency, who in turn reported it. You aren't allowed to do that, and the FCRA spells it out. They also aren't allowed to re-report that account again, and are liable for damages if they do so.
3. Most collection agencies are lazy and out for a quick buck. 99% of all disputes will result in deletion from your report, because it requires effort on the part of the agency to verify the debt. Effort is too much work, so the mark will come off.
4. Be persistent. If it didn't come off the first time, try another tactic, and dispute it again. Don't give up until it is gone.
5. Pay the government first. This is a "well, duh" now, but it wasn't to me back then. Bankruptcy won't excempt you from debts to the government (Federal Student Loans, for example in my case), and unlike most collection agencies, the government isn't lazy.
6. Don't be intimidated by phone calls. Lump telemarketers and collection agencies in the same bucket, get callerid, and set up an asterisk server if you're so inclined. Don't hesitate to hang up on someone if you hear electrical silence for 1-2 seconds, and in fact, delay saying "Hello" when you first pick up, and listen. If you hear background noise, go ahead and answer. If you hear electrical silence like it is a calling machine waiting for you to anwer to connect you to a "rep", hang up immediately. Or simply don't answer calls from numbers you don't know, or are marked "PRIVATE" or "UNAVAILABLE", then let it roll to your answering machine or voicemail. If it is important, and it is a human being, you'll get the message. If you start getting threatening voicemails (did you set up asterisk?) save all of messages, and make a cd if you must. Tell them off, if they still keep calling, they've violated the law (don't remember which one).
7. Get a stamp made ($12 from Office Max) in red ink that says quite simply "Unsolicited Mail: Return to Sender." Take it with you every day to the mailbox. If it is junk mail, stamp. Collections Agency? Stamp. Be sure to stamp once over your name and address and a couple more for good measure elsewhere to make it legible, stick it all back in the mailbox and throw up the flag. After a while I'm sure you'll get to recognize what messages are from whom. You probably do already.
Wow. Uh...yeah. Never negotiate with terr^H^H^H^H collection agencies. Never never never never.
I don't care who sent them.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Just as a follow-up to the above, just doing that won't fix your credit. You have to start outnumbering the negative with the positive.
Go to a local credit union (NOT a bank), make sure it is one that is a member of the CO-OP Network and participates in the CU Shared Branch program. This way CU ATM's nationwide will service you for free, and CU branches will help you nationwide. Start an account there, and after a month or two, start a secured credit card with a savings account attached. After a year or so of good payment history (buy gas on it instead of cash, pay it off immediately), they'll be willing to remove the security account and give you that money back, and probably even double your credit line at the same time. Keep using that card.
Get a car loan there (or move your existing loan to them), and continue rolling positive marks into your report. Perhaps you have a negative mark from your old loan institution. Start getting postives at the CU, then dispute the old mark.
Ditto for a house, if you can. Get everything into one place for easy (even automated) payments so you don't have to worry about writing checks. Credit Unions will bend over backwords to help repair or fix credit for its members, as the members are essentially the owners. A bank really couldn't care less about anything other than getting interest and fee dollars out of you.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Before you all get too excited and start calling Kathy O'Reilly, be aware that wired.com is owned by Lycos, and is a different company from Wired Magazine. Lycos isn't going to be able to help with this. The correct contact for the magazine is subscriptions@wiredmag.com. Most of the rest of the information on that page relates to wired.com.
I'll go ahead and toss another log on the fire before I go to bed for the night.
Find out what the statute of limitations is for collecting debts in your state. Here, it is 7 years from the last time a payment was made on the account. Be careful about this, because some collectors are really sneaky, and let's say you owe $2000 for whatever from 6.5 years ago, and they sympathize and say "tell you what, just pay what you can, say $50...we'll work with you". BS. Next thing you know, you're being sued for the full amount because you've now reset that statute of limitations. Remember what i said about collection agencies? NEVER PAY THE COLLECTIONS AGNECIES. Period.
Once you're outside of that statute of limitations, don't look back. It sucks, if you have a soul at all you're going to have guilt associated with not paying a bill, but move on, and keep your nose clean going forward. Any attempt to pay that debt puts you on shaky legal ground. Better to leave it in the past, and odds are pretty good that if you're outside the statute of limitations, you're alos outside the period of which the negative mark associated with it can be legally posted (again, 7 years from last activity).
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).