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Cobblestones are Good for You

Posted by timothy on from the they-worked-for-jack-the-ripper dept.

pin_gween writes "Need to lose weight, lower blood pressure, help your balance? The Oregon Research Institute reports that walking on 'cobblestone mat surface resulted in significant reductions in blood pressure and improvements in balance and physical performance.' The benefits may have foundations in 'the principles of reflexology, in that the uneven surface of the cobblestones stimulate and regulate "acupoints" located on the soles of the feet.' Although the study was conducted with elderly patients, no reason to think it can't help most folks."

88 comments

  1. I can already see the infomercials.... by SA+Stevens · · Score: 1, Funny

    ....'cobblestone texture' treadmills, being sold on late night cable to little old ladies with an inheritance to blow.

  2. Accupressure? by jericho4.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Yeah. I'll take that as a hypothesis when I see any evidence of it, you know, actually working.

    ORI is a pretty solid group, usually.

    --
    "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
  3. I expect more out of people by xutopia · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "The benefits may have foundations in 'the principles of reflexology, in that the uneven surface of the cobblestones stimulate and regulate "acupoints" located on the soles of the feet.'"

    How about something less far fetched? Like "uneven paveway makes you use your muscles more"... Why do we always have to explain things with divine or unexplained phenomenons when simple ideas work just as well?

    1. Re:I expect more out of people by Caydel · · Score: 1

      This does sound quite full of big words to impress people. However, it does stand to simple logic that a rougher surface will lead to better foot care. The way I would understand it, constantly having your feet pressured every which way is kind of like having a constant foot massage, stimulating better blood, lymph flow etc...

    2. Re:I expect more out of people by ziekke · · Score: 2, Informative

      Pretty simply, because it doesn't work. The reason they explain it using divine or unexplained phenomenons is because they are not scientifically provable. The most likely explanation for this "cobblestone" bunk is that it's pure placebo or something that doesn't involve "reflexology" is at work. I'd like to see double-blind placebo-controlled studies that prove the validity of this practice. Also, if you can prove reflexology works, you can win $1,000,000USD from the James Randi Educational Foundation (http://randi.org./

      --
      // Ziekke
    3. Re:I expect more out of people by Intocabile · · Score: 1

      It would be neat to take this a step further and make a treadmill out of cobblestone textured rubber. That or scientifically designed texture similar to cobblestone. I can't see this being to good on the knees though.

    4. Re:I expect more out of people by St.+Arbirix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought he was going after homeopathy. My ex-girlfriend was running a high fever but she refused to take off the shelf fever medication instead opting for the homeopathic fever medication her mother had provided. It scared me that night because I had an inkling of an idea what she was taking (her fever was 103F and her heart rate was well over 100bpm), but it freaked the hell out of me when I looked up exaclty what homeopathic meant.

      Her mother, by the way, is a Swedish ex-nurse who now runs a reflexology practice out of her home. The whole lot is batty as hell. The girlfriend only tried to stab me on three different occasions while I was kicking her out. She told me earlier on that everyone in her family had mental problems (father's a bipolar math professor, she's bipolar too) but you're likely to get a chair thrown at you if you try to argue the veracity of homeopathy or reflexology (yes, this happened a few times too).

      I've since learned to associate vehement spirituality with mental instability. Keeps me from getting clubbed or excorsized cause those things fucking hurt.

      --
      Direct away from face when opening.
    5. Re:I expect more out of people by djdanlib · · Score: 1

      Or you could just go somewhere with cobblestone pavement and go for a run...

      Seriously, you could even make a real cobblestone-covered treadmill if you tried. That would be interesting.

    6. Re:I expect more out of people by ziekke · · Score: 1

      Randi actually goes for anything Paranormal/Supernatural, which reflexology, homeopathy, ghosts, psychics, etc. all fall under. He did do a preliminary on homeopathy though (which failed), IIRC, whereas I don't believe he has had anyone challenge him with reflexology (wonder why?)

      --
      // Ziekke
    7. Re:I expect more out of people by name773 · · Score: 1

      "ghosts, psychics, etc."

      at first i read that as "ghosts, physics, etc." that made me laugh :)

      this page has a portion of the new scientist article "13 things that don't make sense" that in part covers some interesting findings on homeopathy. (#4) i would have linked to the original article, but it cuts off shortly and asks you to subscribe.

      anyway, it seems to me that the majority of places employing cobblestone as a walking surface usually have a pleasant atmosphere as well. that also might have something to do with their findings

      research aside, i just like cobblestone; it seems more natural to me.

    8. Re:I expect more out of people by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Insightful
      How about something less far fetched? Like "uneven paveway makes you use your muscles more"... Why do we always have to explain things with divine or unexplained phenomenons when simple ideas work just as well?

      Why? Recently, a lot of studies have demonstrated that accupunture has a measureable effect on pain management.

      A lot of traditional herbals are being shown to have efficacy.

      I'm not saying one should trade in a doctor for a shaman, but western medicine is finally figuring out that some of the cures that have been in use for hundreds (if not thousands) of years might actually do something.

      Summarily dismissing the findings is just as meaningless as blind belief in the fact that it can't be helpful.
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    9. Re:I expect more out of people by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      It would be neat to take this a step further and make a treadmill out of cobblestone textured rubber.

      I don't think this will work out. When you are running on real cobblestones, you can keep track of the ground ahead of you to avoid stumbling. You can't do that on a treadmill, it isn't long enough. And if the pseudo-cobblestones are shallow or regular enough to prevent stumbling, won't that also remove much of the benefit?

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
    10. Re:I expect more out of people by tOaOMiB · · Score: 1

      Double-blind placebo-controlled?
      And tell me, dear sir, how are you supposed to blind the patient so they know if they are walking on cobblestone or not?
      What exactly is the placebo in question? They had a control group walking on non-cobblestone, and that's as good as you can do in this case. Design the better experiment and put it up if you want to really be modded informative!

    11. Re:I expect more out of people by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      How do you define supernatural?

      I've written some brief notes on the question, but to summarize, I think the word is an oxymoron because 'nature' means everything that there is. Therefore there's nothing outside it. On the other hand, science is not (yet) complete, and there are plenty of things in nature that we know they exist, but we can't fully explain (for example ball lightning).

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    12. Re:I expect more out of people by Guy+Harris · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Summarily dismissing the findings is just as meaningless as blind belief in the fact that it can't be helpful.

      He's not dismissing the findings, he's dismissing one explanation of the findings. Just because some traditional medicine or traditional medical practice is found to work, that doesn't necessarily mean that the traditional explanation of that medicine or process is correct.

    13. Re:I expect more out of people by FroBugg · · Score: 1
      From the challenge FAQ at randi.org:

      2.2. What do you mean by "paranormal"?

      This is a remarkably difficult word to define correctly.

      Webster's Online Dictionary defines it as "not scientifically explainable; supernatural", and it defines "supernatural" as, "of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature; attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)".

      Past JREF Challenge rulings have shown that certain events which deviate from what is usual or normal aren't always considered paranormal by the Challenge administrators. Potential applicants are free to inquire (prior to submitting an application) as to whether or not their claim would be acceptable under the Challenge rules. The rules must be followed strictly, so don't waste your time arguing about them. They will not be changed or altered in any way.

      2.3. Does (this) qualify as paranormal?

      The best way to answer this is to examine this list of things that people commonly apply for.

      The following things are paranormal by definition:

      Dowsing. ESP. Precognition. Remote Viewing. Communicating with the Dead and/or "Channeling". Violations of Newton's Laws of Motion (Perpetual Motion Devices). Homeopathy. Chiropractic Healing (beyond back/joint problems). Faith Healing. Psychic Surgery. Astrology. Therapeutic Touch (aka "TT"). Qi Gong. Psychokinesis (aka "PK"). The Existence of Ghosts. Precognition & Prophecy. Levitation. Physiognomy. Psychometry. Pyramid Power. Reflexology. Acupuncture. Applied Kinesiology (aka "AK"). Clairvoyance. The Existence of Auras. Graphology. Numerology. Palmistry. Phrenology.

      The following things have been ruled NOT paranormal and/or NOT eligible for the Challenge in the past:

      UFOs. "Bigfoot" & "Yeti" (or other legendary creatures). Anything that is likely to cause injury. "Cloud-busting". Claims of a Religious or Spiritual nature. Exorcism and/or Demonic Possession. The Existence of Chakras. The Existence of God[5]. Reincarnation. The Existence of the Soul or "Astral Bodies".

      There are some claims that are far too implausible to warrant any serious examination, such as the "Breatharian" claims in which the applicant states that he can survive without food or water. Science conclusively tells us all we need to know about such matters, and the JREF feels no obligation to engage applicants in such delusions.

      Many of the NOT PARANORMAL claims are listed as such solely because they cannot be properly tested for. For example, in order to prove that Exorcism is real, one must first establish the existence of demons. The JREF is unaware of a manner in which it might be proven that demons exist (or god, or angels or "elementals", for that matter), while remaining open to any suggestions that might change their opinion in this regard.

      So, if someone can suggest a test protocol that would conclusively verify such things, the JREF would be willing to hear about it.

      Other claims, such as "Crop Circles" and UFO's are rejected because they have been definitively proven to be the result of hoaxes or mass hysteria. Claims involving "Cloud-Busting", for example, are rejected because Science (along with keen observation) tells us conclusively that clouds will move and disperse despite the efforts of humankind to move them according to their wishes. The phenomenon behind Oujia boards, for example, is attributed to ideo-motor reflexes, and not to anything paranormal.

      The JREF will also not waste its time (or the applicant's safety and well being) with claims from applicants who exhibit clear signs of paranoid delusions, schizophrenia or other mental illness, feeling strongly that it is their moral responsibility to avoid the furthering of such delusions in the minds of those who may be in need of immediate psychiatric attention. What this means is tha

    14. Re:I expect more out of people by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      The summary to me seems to be that they've already ruled out things that science has already proved nonexistent, and they define paranormal as something that science cannot explain but may be real nevertheless.

      I like the idea from a scientific point of view, but I hate the wording. When we see something unexpected in the physics lab, we don't immediately think of it as 'paranormal', even though it fulfills the same conditions as those outlined by JREF. For example, before quantum theory, the photoelecric effect (using light to create electric current) had no scientific explanation, but it wasn't called 'paranormal' because there was nothing scary or mystical about it. It was simply something you didn't fully understand.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    15. Re:I expect more out of people by blamanj · · Score: 1

      I've since learned to associate vehement spirituality with mental instability.

      When you talk to God, it's called prayer. When God talks to you, it's called schizophrenia.

    16. Re:I expect more out of people by St.+Arbirix · · Score: 1

      Dated one of those too. :)

      --
      Direct away from face when opening.
    17. Re:I expect more out of people by Tassach · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you need to develop a better method of selecting girlfriends.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
    18. Re:I expect more out of people by St.+Arbirix · · Score: 1

      It's those damn Ouija boards. They screw me every time.

      I kid.

      --
      Direct away from face when opening.
    19. Re:I expect more out of people by jungd · · Score: 1

      >Why? Recently, a lot of studies have demonstrated that accupunture has a measureable effect on pain management.

      a) Remember, most 'studies' are PR, not science.
      b) Lookup 'Placebo effect' to see why the fact that something results in improved health doesn't mean it has any direct physiological effect.
      (i.e. just because Accupuncture may improve the health of those who try it doesn't mean that sticking needles into ones skin has any direct physiological effect that is resonsible for said improvements. Ditto for herbs.)

      >I'm not saying one should trade in a doctor for a shaman, but western medicine is finally figuring out that some of the cures that have been in use for hundreds (if not thousands) of years might actually do something.

      Agreed. Not to be confused with Homeopathy though (which involves administering only water, so any effect must be Placebo)

      --
      /..sig file not found - permission denied.
  4. Re:Reflexologists know feet! by RealityMogul · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Is that anything like a prostitute?

  5. How Fitting by ndansmith · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Parts of downtown Portland, OR are paved with cobbelstones taken from old ships (which used the stones for ballast).

    One question, when did Slashdot start posting commercials as stories? "Buy a Cobblestone mat" is the link emblazoned just below the synopsis on the linked page, and the mat is apparently being sold dirrectly by ORI, apparently for profit.

    1. Re:How Fitting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mebbe now that they're finished with the research, they are just selling off some of the mats they used in the study...

    2. Re:How Fitting by CosmeticLobotamy · · Score: 1

      "Did it work?"
      "Of course not. It's a cobblestone mat."
      "Okay. So what do you want to do with all these cobblestone mats we've got?"
      "... They work! It's a miracle! Ship 'em!"

    3. Re:How Fitting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      One question, when did Slashdot start posting commercials as stories?

      A long time ago.
  6. Re:Reflexologists know feet! by fyrewulff · · Score: 3, Funny

    A footstitute?

    --
    "We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
  7. Exercising your feet by Josh+Booth · · Score: 1

    How about exercise being good for your feet. That's why I wear simple Chuck Taylors and not fancy shoes anymore. They force your feet to move more and so exercise your feet.

    So, what is the solution? Go barefoot! Take off your shoes when inside and wear simple shoes that force your feet to flex like millions of years of evolution designed your feet to do.

    1. Re:Exercising your feet by pauljlucas · · Score: 1
      So, what is the solution? Go barefoot! Take off your shoes when inside and wear simple shoes that force your feet to flex like millions of years of evolution designed your feet to do.
      You can take that a step further as I do and simply go barefoot most everywhere (weather permitting, which is year-round in California for me). (No, it's not against any law. Details here.
      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    2. Re:Exercising your feet by fbjon · · Score: 1
      .. Excuse me, but is there anyone here who does not remove shoes when inside?

      Anyway, some advice to indoors-slashdotters: go outside for a moment in the sunshine, and walk around on the green cut grass barefoot. You never need any shoes unless it's cold, or the walking surface hurts or wounds your feet (read: gravel, risk for glass shards, too hot asphalt, etc.)

      And get rid of those socks, right now. I never wear socks indoors, sometimes not even in wintertime.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  8. Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by ziekke · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Reflexology is not a science, nor has it been proven effective (or even real). It's surprising how many institutions are providing courses/products that teach or use such ridiculous methods (homeopathy, reflexology, magnet therapy, etc.).

    Whether this "cobblestone" crap actually works I have no idea, but if it is rooted in "reflexology" and "traditional chinese medicine" then I'd have to bet that there will never be any truly scientific studies that prove this product.

    The more likely explanation is that these people age 60+ that they tested are actually WALKING, as opposed to sitting around. Not to mention the likely placebo effect of being told "walk these cobblestones, they make you feel better!"

    For more information on Reflexology, please see:

    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ reflex.html

    And remember folks, think critically. Anything that advertises itself using "accupressure" or "hidden pathways" is bunk.

    --
    // Ziekke
    1. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by jericho4.0 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      The OP is modded "troll" as I write this.

      Our society has become a place where truth has no value, and people think it rude to demand proof. Everywhere I hear and see belief in magic and superstition, from reflexology to homeopathy to physic hotlines. Much of it cloaked in pseudoscience and defended as science. WTF happened to rationalism?

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    2. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by RatPh!nk · · Score: 1

      Please mod parent back to something aside from "Troll". This is most certainly not a troll. The poster is simply stating commonly held, and data backed prevailing scientific opinion. Quackwatch is an excellent site, and does well to debunk many claims made by purveyors of alternative medicine, homeopathy, etc...

      I am not familiar with ORI but, again, it is likely that the cobblestone walkers used more muscles to control their movements when walking over the cobblestones, compensating for reflexes (there are several pathways-stretch reflex, autogenic inhibition reflex, flexor reflex, crossed extension reflex etc..) involved in this. More muscle activities being better than simple walking, and other activities.

      It is hard to draw conclusions without seeing the actual paper and their methods, how they account for confounders etc..There may be some bias on the part of the researchers (that link to buy a mat is very troubling to me). I will feel much better, and take this research more seriously when I see this in a peer reviewed journal.

      But...the parent is not a troll.
      --
      Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
    3. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 4, Insightful
      if it is rooted in "reflexology" and "traditional chinese medicine" then I'd have to bet that there will never be any truly scientific studies that prove this product...

      Reflexology has nothing to do with Chinese Medicine.

      And remember folks, think critically. Anything that advertises itself using "accupressure" or "hidden pathways" is bunk.

      "Thinking critically" also means being skeptical of the claims of current medical orthodoxy - looking at the actual evidence rather than being swayed by name-calling.

      I don't know anything about reflexology, or about this particular study. But I know more than a little bit about acupressure and Chinese Medicine. While the research is still scanty, there are good clinical studies showing acupressure to be effective.

      The NCCAOM has started working more closely with the NCCAM, and I hope to see more and better research forthcoming. Meanwhile, acupressure is an extremely safe treatment that seems to clearly have, at a bare minimum, positive non-specific effects in relieving stress and chronic muscle tension.

      I commented on the relationship between the physiological/reductionist and the Chinese Medicine models here a few days ago, I'll take the liberty of briefly repeating myself:

      There are several physiological theories about the meridians and points of acupressure, three that I know about involve nervous reflexes, the electrical properties of fascia, and a supposed network of less-differentiated cells throughout the body. It's possible that different points work by different mechanisms. Certainly the "placebo effect" plays a role - as it does in any treatment. Google for placebo surgery, it's fascinating.

      Many pracitioners of Chinese Medicine don't care much about trying to find a Western Medicine explanation for how acupuncture, Asian bodywork therapy, and Chinese herbs, create their effects. They see it work every day, that's enough for them. (The same can be said of many Western physicians, a surprising number of whom have little interest or knowledge of biology.) But there is certainly a subset of the community that is interested in understanding from both points of view.

      IMHO it's unfortunate that many practitioners of CM have latched on to the idea that qi, a fundamental ascept of the CM model, is some sort of electromagnetic-like energy field. This is a misinterpretation, attempting to fit Taoist concepts of the Universe into a Aristotelian grid. The CM model is very much a functional, not a structural, one; the Vital Substances, the Zang-Fu organs, and the meridians are best understood by what they do, not by chopping people up looking for them.

      I recommend Ted Kaptchuk's book The Web That Has No Weaver to those interested in learning more about Chinese Medicine.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    4. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Oracle+of+Bandwidth · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the link, I'd like to think we are getting past quackery as we move more into a reasoned medical world. I'm surpised anyone would use eastern medicne when we can't explain that. Of course I may be in the minority in making my doctor explain what is going on before going under the knife at all.

    5. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by ziekke · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "Thinking critically" also means being skeptical of the claims of current medical orthodoxy - looking at the actual evidence rather than being swayed by name-calling.

      You are exactly right, however I don't see how that was relevant in my post, or in this thread, as we are not disputing medical practice. I never said that quacks didn't exist in every line of practice. However I will say that anyone practicing acupuncture or reflexology is a quack.

      Reflexology has nothing to do with Chinese Medicine.

      I didn't mention reflexology together with chinese medicine for no reason. RTFA. Excerpt: "Cobblestone-like walking paths are common in China. The activity is rooted in traditional Chinese medicine and relates to some of the principles of reflexology, in that the uneven surface of the cobblestones stimulate and regulate "acupoints" located on the soles of the feet."

      Many pracitioners of Chinese Medicine don't care much about trying to find a Western Medicine explanation for how acupuncture

      Whether they care or not doesn't mean it works just because they believe in it. Proof of acupuncture is anecdotal at best, there is absolutely no proof that such techniques are scientifically sound.

      Sure there have been lots of "studies" done on acupuncture claiming that it Really Works, however none of which were appropriate in controlling placebo and other factors such as blinding.

      They see it work every day, that's enough for them.

      But what about all the times that it doesn't work? And there are many. The trouble with things like this is people focus more on the times they succeed and tend to forget about all the times that things failed.

      (The same can be said of many Western physicians, a surprising number of whom have little interest or knowledge of biology.)

      There is a huge difference between a medical doctor prescribing you a treatment that has been properly scientifically and medically proven and tested without knowing the exact biological aspects, and some quack sticking needles in you because he believes in meridians and qi, and all the other things that whatever acupuncturist you talk to believes.

      The CM model is very much a functional, not a structural, one; the Vital Substances, the Zang-Fu organs, and the meridians are best understood by what they do, not by chopping people up looking for them.

      You don't have to chop people up to look for meridians. You simply have to submit the practice to a real scientific double blind-placebo controlled test. Fancy that, here is an example: http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/143/1/1 0

      For some real information see http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ acu.html

      To quote:

      The National Council Against Health Fraud has concluded:

      • Acupuncture is an unproven modality of treatment.
      • Its theory and practice are based on primitive and fanciful concepts of health and disease that bear no relationship to present scientific knowledge
      • Research during the past 20 years has not demonstrated that acupuncture is effective against any disease.
      • Perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion, counter-irritation, conditioning, and other psychologic mechanisms.
      • The use of acupuncture should be restricted to appropriate research settings, Insurance companies should not be required by law to cover acupuncture treatment, Licensure of lay acupuncturists should be phased out.
      • Consumers who wish to try acupuncture should discuss their situation with a knowledgeable physician who has no commercial interest [20].
      --
      // Ziekke
    6. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Speculation follows...

      People are anti-science because they don't like hearing that their fantastic or comfortable beliefs have nothing to support them. People are proud and hate being shown that they are wrong. Youngsters grow up with poor education or parents who teach them not to listen to them lab-coat types.

      BTW, hilarious sig (time cube) given the current context.

    7. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by West+VA+Flamer · · Score: 1

      People learn from immitating each other, and its amazing how strong the power of suggestion is. Most people are gullible enough that if you talk about how great acupuncture is they are likely to believe it and try it themselves. Then report back saying it relly helped them, not because it did. But because they thought it would. I immagine eventually people will just immitating thier understanding of how they learn through immitation and it will be very funny and sad.

    8. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by ziekke · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Believe it or not, you pretty much nailed it right on the head there.

      There are lots and lots of Doctors (and not necessarily Medical Doctors, this includes physicists, biologists, etc.) that subscribe to some of these quackery beliefs, not even limited to simply reflexology or acupuncture. Dowsing, astrology, HOMEOPATHY all that stuff is just as unproven and fake as the next. The belief in some of these things even falls down to psychological factors (such as the ideomotor effect (2) with regards to dowsing, and placebo effect for most - if not all - alternative medicine practices). It's interesting how a physicist can believe that dowsing really works, but they are out there!

      In the case of the "traditional chinese medicine", the arguement is that it has been around for 2000 years So It Must Work!. Unfortunately, just cause it's been around for a long time, doesn't mean it works either.

      Aside from the personal/psychological influences that cause people to follow these things, a huge factor are the people marketing the products and therapies.

      Snake oil charmers tend to be able to sell this stuff by scaring people with lies. Fear that the "industry" is out to get you. Fear that "drugs" are poisoning you. It's easy to get someone to believe that there are conspiracies (that are conveniently unprovable) working against them and that the only way out is their form of alternative medicine.

      A lot of people lured to alternative medicine are done so because they feel they have been somehow wronged by the MD profession. Like they believe they have a true illness that MDs can't locate/cure (because it doesn't exist). So they go to a naturopath who is only too happy to say "Of course there's something wrong with you! Now that will be $50 a week for therapy plus $35 a month for my homeopathic pills. Don't worry, they are 100x diluted so they are SUPER-effective!". Lots of alternative medicine practitioners even go so far as to claim you have an illness you don't know about, and that only they can cure it! Colonix for example is one such thing, as well as people who say you should be taking TONS of vitamin supplements for various reasons. Anyone heard of magnet therapy (Quackwatch Info)?

      The sad thing about it all, is that it's difficult to combat with logic and sense. You say "but its not proven" and they say "You just have to believe!" or "So-and-so said it worked, so it must! I don't care if science says it doesn't".

      If you go to http://quackwatch.org/ there is an insane amount of information there with regards to how people get sucked in to this stuff.

      --
      // Ziekke
    9. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      The GP wasn't demanding proof. He was rejecting a hypothesis with no evidence in either direction, just because it had bad buzzwords. That's not science. It's prejudicial and very unscientific.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    10. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      Sure there have been lots of "studies" done on acupuncture claiming that it Really Works, however none of which were appropriate in controlling placebo and other factors such as blinding.

      That's just bullshit. You reject the hypothesis because of an irrational belief in your own rationality, and thus must reject any experiment that contradicts you out of hand. That's not science, it's religion.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    11. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by ziekke · · Score: 1
      You're right, I wasn't I was rejecting a hypothesis with plenty of evidence. Apparantly you didn't see the link within my post.

      Want another?

      http://www.ncahf.org/articles/o-r/reflexology.html

      Quit wasting our time by trolling.

      --
      // Ziekke
    12. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Apreche · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The NCCAM is not real science.

      http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ nccam.html

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/altm ed/snake/evidence.html

      Also, search within this page for NCCAM
      http://www.randi.org/jr/042602.html

      And that's just skimming the surface.

      The NCCAM is a bunch of quackery and pseudoscience. The most you will ever get from acupuncture, reflexology, chiropracty or any other bullshit is the placebo effect. If anyone claims that any of these things are real, as them why they haven't won the million dollar challenge.

      But don't believe me just on my word. Do your own research. Use google. Go to the library. Read what real scientists and various studies say about the NCCAM and the bs that is most alternative medicine. When you are done, you will become as enraged as I am that your tax dollars are spent funding this crap instead of working on real medicine.

      --
      The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
    13. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      The people at Quackwatch, the Amazing Randi, etc., have a vested interest in denying the efficacy of alternative medicines. Not for economic reasons, but because it feeds their egos. It makes them feel smarter than the unwashed masses who buy into all that "mumbo jumbo."

      Well, I'll tell you what -- you're denying the truth of the study presented in TFA with no evidence to support the claim that it was performed incorrectly or in bad faith. That is not science. It's not smart. You're rejecting it out of hand because you don't like the buzzwords they used. Your link to another, unrelated metastudy has no bearing on the truth of this study, and only supports the claim that you're rejecting this study out of hand. (Hint: The name given to the process by which walking on cobblestones is healthy doesn't matter, even if it is reflexology or just plain old podiatry)

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    14. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by ziekke · · Score: 1
      I never stated that there was something wrong with the cobblestones. As a matter of fact, I believe my exact words were:

      Whether this "cobblestone" crap actually works I have no idea...

      I stated that there was something wrong with reflexology. If the cobblestones work, it isn't because of reflexology (which is where my links and observations enter).

      TFA itself stated that the mat works by stimulating "acupoints". It further goes to state that "These acupoints are purportedly linked to all organs and tissues of the body.". This "study" by the ORI is clearly claiming that reflexology is the reason why this mat works. Then it goes on to provide the details of their horribly flawed study performed, that claims it works!

      My proof thereof is in the article itself, I shall quote so as to point out exactly what is flawed.

      were divided into an experimental group -- the cobblestone mat walkers -- and a control group which took part in conventional walking activities for one hour, three times per week for 16 weeks. At the end of the study, mat walkers were found to have better scores on measures of balance, physical function, and blood pressure than those in the conventional walking group.

      Where was the placebo control? 16 weeks? How active were these patients prior to the study? How many participants? Where is the link to the full study including data and comparitive statistics?

      How about the fact that the ORI is marketing/advertising the mats themselves! If that isn't bias then I don't know what is!

      Although I have serious doubts because the study they did was not placebo-controlled whatsoever and heavily biased, I never said it was the mat doesn't work for being a cobblestone mat. It was the reflexology they stated, and described, that I said is bunk. Please don't put words into my mouth (or post box, whatever)

      --
      // Ziekke
    15. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I agree, except with acupuncture. Several, well respected clinical studies have show that it does "somehow" modify the pain response. There are various theories on how this works, but I am inclined to believe the sience on this one that it does.

      One thing also to consider, most of western medicine is based on very, very little science (but atleast it is based on some). I mean they have sample sizes of like 3 people, how can you see a result with that.....

    16. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

      It's not stupid to suspect that research that showed acupuncture to work was incorrect.

      And going through your own link, the first one says: "There was no significant difference in the following outcome measures between the active and sham acupuncture groups."

      The next few say similar things. What's your point again?

    17. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by poopdeville · · Score: 1
      And going through your own link, the first one says: "There was no significant difference in the following outcome measures between the active and sham acupuncture groups[:]"

      It sure does. But that's not the end of the sentence. It continues:

      ...daily relief medication scores, blood eosinophil counts, serum IgE levels, and nasal eosinophil counts, except for the IgE levels before and 2 months after acupuncture in the sham acupuncture group.

      which is to say that none of those mechanisms are responsible for the conclusion:

      CONCLUSIONS: This study showed that active acupuncture was more effective than sham acupuncture in decreasing the symptom scores for persistent allergic rhinitis and increasing the symptom-free days. No serious adverse effect was identified. A large-scale study is required to confirm the safety of acupuncture for children.

      My point was that it is false to state that there aren't any double blind studies regarding acupuncture's efficacy. There is a sizable body of literature on the topic that is just ignored by the likes of you because it doesn't fit your preconceptions. The fact that you read through the link I suggested and failed to pick up on the fact that the study contradicts you suggests that you were just data mining the text, looking to support your own point. That's not science. That's not even wrong.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    18. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's not stupid to suspect that research that showed acupuncture to work was incorrect.

      There's nothing extraordinary about claiming that a system of healthcare used continuously for several thousand years may actually have some benefit. There's nothing extraordinary about claiming that stimulating one part of the body can have a distal effect - anyone who's found the "skritchy spot" on a dog that makes the leg spasm has seen it.

      Indeed it is an extraordinary claim that the millions of people who feel that they have benefitted from CM over the past 4,000 years - as well as those researchers finding a benefit in controlled studies - were all fooled, that Chinese Medicine is a massive conspiracy.

      It's not stupid to suspect that research that showed acupuncture not to work was incorrect. Many of these studies did not involve anything like the acupuncture that is practiced clinically - for example they didn't have the procedure performed by trained acupuncturists, or don't use CM methods of assessment/diagnosis, or use acupressure as a sham for acupuncure when both will stimulate a tsubo, or don't allow for anything like a normal course of treatment.

      Knocking down strawman versions of CM may be fun for psuedo-skeptics and defenders of current medical orthodoxy, but it ain't science.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    19. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      The NCCAM is not real science.

      The NCCAM is exactly real science. Both you and the "QuackWatch" author seem to have forgotten that the basis of science is research, experimentation, and observation - as opposed to disregarding observations which don't agree with your model and demanding that any research with the potential to undercut your own biases be de-funded.

      The most you will ever get from acupuncture, reflexology, chiropracty or any other bullshit is the placebo effect. If anyone claims that any of these things are real, as them why they haven't won the million dollar challenge.

      The JREF challenge is for demonstrations of "paranormal, supernatural, or occult" phenomena. There's nothing in the least supernatural or paranormal about acupressure or Chinese medicine!

      But don't believe me just on my word. Do your own research. Use google. Go to the library

      I've done my own research. I provived a link to PubMed citing many studies. Here is is again: PubMed search on shiatsu or acupressure. Some especially interesing studies involved measuring physiological data such as gastric myoelectrical activity, EEG indications of anesthesia, and norepinephrine levels to show definite effects of acupressure on the body.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    20. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Informative
      RTFA. Excerpt: "Cobblestone-like walking paths are common in China. The activity is rooted in traditional Chinese medicine and relates to some of the principles of reflexology, in that the uneven surface of the cobblestones stimulate and regulate "acupoints" located on the soles of the feet."

      Then TFA is blowing smoke. There is only one TCM acupoint located on the sole of the foot, Kidney 1; and CM has no relation at all to reflexology.

      But what about all the times that it doesn't work? And there are many. The trouble with things like this is people focus more on the times they succeed and tend to forget about all the times that things failed.

      Of course. The same is true for any treatment, conventional or complementary. Western physicians aren't immune to believing in treatments that don't work. Hell, just a few decades ago your doctor would be telling you to take up smoking to help lose weight.

      There is a huge difference between a medical doctor prescribing you a treatment that has been properly scientifically and medically proven and tested...

      But very few of the treatments used in standard Western medicine have been so tested! Please show me a controlled double-blind study of coronary bypass surgery.

      You simply have to submit the practice to a real scientific double blind-placebo controlled test. Fancy that, here is an example: http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/abstract/143/1/1 0

      A study with only two fatal flaws:

      • "A prescription of acupuncture at fixed points may differ from acupuncture administered in clinical settings". In other words, what was tested was nothing like acupuncture as it is actually applied.
      • part of the control group received "noninsertive simulated acupuncture", which will also stimulate points - in some cases, as effectively as needle insertion. Those of us who practice acupressure and ABT stimulate points without needle insertion all the time

      So you've cited a study that has no bearing on clinical acupuncture.

      A better example of a double-blind controlled methodology for acupuncture research is that developed by Allen and Schnyer, where the control is geniune acupuncture adminstered for a condition other than that under investigation. They found:

      Thus, based on a small outpatient sample of women with major depression, it appeared that acupuncture provided significant symptom relief at rates comparable to standard treatments such as psychotherapy or pharmacotherapy. The effect sizes observed in this small sample were at least as large or larger than those seen in trials of antidepressant medication or psychotherapy, and they suggest that a larger clinical trial is warranted.
      (Here is another study using that methodology.)
      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    21. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not that I agree with this "stuff" but

      "Like they believe they have a true illness that MDs can't locate/cure (because it doesn't exist). "

      strikes me a just ignorant. 20 years ago my wife suffered Hepatitis like symptoms after a blood transfusion. Hepatitis A & B tests negative. Must not be anything wrong huh? Hepatitis C wasn't "discovered" until long after she contracted it.

      Just because the best doctors can't diagnose it, that doesn't mean it's all in your head!

    22. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by rsadelle · · Score: 1

      My dad is an agricultural engineer with the USDA. One of the things he does is help farmers design and put in wells. He told me that every well he's worked on has been witched. My understanding is that there's no way to know exactly what you're going to hit until you start digging, so witching works just as well as any other guessing method.

    23. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by Sun+Rider · · Score: 1

      I'm glad to see somebody in Slashdot willing to accept that current science might not have all the answers. Energy meridians not detected by current technology? And why not? Just some 20-30 years ago it was accepted science your fat and meat intake had to be much greater than today. And now official medicine is finally accepting fruit and vegetable intake can help with certain conditions, that some yoga excercises do benefit the body, etc. Just think what other "qwack" theories will be accepted wisdom in the future.

    24. Re:Quack! Don't waste your time/money! by poopdeville · · Score: 1

      Just curious -- did you put me on your enemies list before or after our brief exchange here?

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
  9. No reason? by NereusRen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Although the study was conducted with elderly patients, no reason to think it can't help most folks."

    Hey, I thought of a reason:

    "The benefits may have foundations in 'the principles of reflexology'"

  10. As a Rollerblade User by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I strongly condemn this arrrrttititititiclelelelelele.

  11. Reflexology /foot massage by FidelCatsro · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now Reflexology is a foot massage , there is no difference apart from that a foot massage will generally be more thorough .
    Things it can help with are
    1:) Foot pain
    2:) lower ankle pain
    3:) stress , it feels great
    4:) probably nothing else
    Walking on cobbles (depending on the cobbles) can be a very relaxing experience .
    This has nothing to do with the principles of reflexology which have been consistently proven to be nothing more than a nice foot massage. Of course it can help lower blood pressure if the high blood pressure is caused by stress, its relaxing , its fun.
    Why ruin a perfectly good (if obvious) research piece by comparing it to snake oil

    --
    The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
  12. Gee and look, you can buy a cobblestone mat! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How utterly pathetic has the US media become to report sales material like this as 'news'.

    This company is actually whoring $40 cobblestone mats on the same site as thier press release, and nobody seems no notice.

    Whats next, a Jenny Craig study on Obesity? Perhaps a Oprah study on book clubs?

  13. independent? by ecotax · · Score: 1

    The scientific reputation of this institute is unknown to me, but the 'buy a cobblestone mat' link right below the article makes me a bit suspicious.

    --
    "Money is a sign of poverty." - Iain Banks
  14. News at 11 by tod_miller · · Score: 1

    Researchers have found that compression of the soles of the feet, combined with stimulating the nerve endings increases blood flow to the feet.

    I hope they got a banana for their sterling efforts

    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
  15. I had much the same thought by jd · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It would put more stress on the muscles (which helps), it would also exercise those parts of the brain handling balance (which will also help). If pressure has anything to do with it at all, it may (just may) help massage the feet, which may in turn account for the improved circulation. All of the above will also marginally increase the blood flow to the feet, which may also help.


    There are plenty of other possibilities, too. Pressure generates heat and heat leads to the opening of capiliaries. Could the bend-and-stretch of blood vessels help?


    There's also the fact that flat surfaces are much more lenient on poor posture and poor walking habits. An uneven surface may, then, lead indirectly to a whole host of other minor improvements in walking that yield benefits.


    In other words, we have some data but a few hundred possible variables we can attribute it to.


    Unexplained phenomena exist, there's no doubt about that - science isn't dead, yet - but I think it safe to assume that 99.9% of anything at the purely mechanical level is going to require purely mechanical explanations, all of which we are likely to know already.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  16. Easier explanation... by elander · · Score: 2, Insightful
    An uneven surface requires you to use more muscles to balance your body, and keep from falling. Using more muscles leads to at least three benefits:
    • Higher energy consumption
    • Building strength
    • Lubricating joints
    This is not news, everyone involved in physical training knows, or should know, about this. Several studies have also shown that "micromovements", such as "bobbing knees" (constantly moving your leg up and down when seated) also leads to less overweight. Cobblestone mats is just another way to make you work a little harder, and so can prove effective if you use them a lot. A more pleasant way would be to simply get out more, preferrably out of town. A walk in a forest typically requires more energy expenditure than a stroll around the block.
    --
    /elander
  17. meh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe this is along the same lines as "if you do something, anything at all" requiring physical excersise, it helps your health.

    The fact that the people got out and walked on this surface had less to do with the surface and more to do with the fact they were walking.

  18. Something Similar by Anti_Climax · · Score: 1

    sounds like a variation on the concept discussed here:

    http://oaktreep.ehost.com/oaktreephysicaltherapyne wsletterarchives/id2.html

    They've been talking about this for 2-3 years now

    --
    Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
  19. On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by DynaSoar · · Score: 1, Interesting

    jericho4.0 (565125) sez: "Yeah. I'll take that as a hypothesis when I see any evidence of it, you know, actually working."

    Then go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi and put in "Journal of the American Geriatrics Society" and keep checking until the PubMed listing in entered, or go to http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/toc/jgs/0/0 and keep checking until the EarlyOnline posts it. It was just accepted and hasn't appeared yet.

    But I'm betting most of the whiners really don't care nearly as much about TFA as they do about getting the chance to whine.

    And for the dinks that can't follow links and at least read the release from ORI, reflexology IS a science where they noticed the effect and developed the hypothesis from. Put "reflexology" in the search window in the PubMed link and you'll get 187 references. People doing scientific investigation of something is the verb definition of "science".

    Remember, NIH has a center devoted to studying "alternative" therapy, and some of these "alternatives" have been around since before the ancestors of most Europeans (from whence comes "Western" medicine) were tribes yet to gain the smarts and strengths enough to challenge the Romans.

    Yes, the Office of Alternative Medicine has been able to "validate" very little of what's been presented to them. The fact that they can't do in 10 years what's worked for a thousand only means "it doesn't work" if you ignore the vast majority of the evidence, which is most often done by insisting it appear in peer reviewed journals, and the hell with centuries of success.

    And if you'll notice, this study wasn't funded by OAM. The NIH centers themselves are going around OAM, because they ARE run by scientists who realize there must be something there. This may be in part due to the fact that 50% of the people doing research at NIH are not from the US. Or maybe it's the other way around.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    1. Re:On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by CrazyMik · · Score: 1

      On this debate, who said western medicine was science? The only thing that really differentiates western medicine from other "alternatives" is that it at least listens to scientific findings. But like "Alternative" medicine, it also (in general) listens to the popularity of procedures. A good example of this is accupunture. Its non western, but it became popular as an alternative therapy because western medicine, in my opinion, does not have many solutions to soft tissue (muscle) problems. So, doctors take not of its popularity. Scientific research is done, and low and behold, it does work on pain..... Other applications are being investigated, but the advantage of western medicine is that it absorbs what works, both due to popularity and science, not just one.

    2. Re:On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to be a party pooper, but just a few studies claiming something works, being placed in marginalised scientific journals, isn't enough of a proof. Maybe reason for further studies, but usually the methodology used is simply flawed.

      So to get to my point, even if they had some effect, the groups researching it are doing such poor efforts at it, that it only hurts its name in scientific circles. People who consistently research poorly will obviously not be taken seriously at all.

      In anycase, for alot of alternatives it has already been attempted to find if it gave enough of an affect and also if so for which reasons. So as to be able to give a more directed and effective solution. Ofcourse by then it tends to have become bottled or become part of other treatments and be 'western' medicine. Reality is, we've already taken a large part of the rest of the worlds knowledge and things like homeopathy and most likely acupuncture were not absorbed into standard medicine, because the research actually doesn't back it up.

    3. Re:On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by taustin · · Score: 1

      If you think reflexology is a science, that there's anything at all to it, you should become a practitioner and apply for the $1,000,000 (that's one MILLION dollars) prize from the James Randi Educational Foundation. There are more details at http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html

      Reflexology is specifically listed as qualifying.

      If you don't, you're either a fool or a liar. Even if you "aren't interested in the money," think how much "legitimate" research could be done - how many people could be helped - with that million bucks.

    4. Re:On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

      "If you don't, you're either a fool or a liar. Even if you "aren't interested in the money," think how much "legitimate" research could be done - how many people could be helped - with that million bucks."

      I don't because I AM a scientist, and I do research, and it would be a waste of my time to work that hard to do something outside my field for that small of an amount when I can get more for doing more of what I know, and can therefore produce more.

      Besides, I submit my work to peer review, not entertainers.

      --
      "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    5. Re:On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by deglr6328 · · Score: 1

      Holy fucking shit. That's all I can say really. If this is an example of the type of logic the average person is capable of, we're truly fucked as a species.

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
    6. Re:On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should try contacting Randi then, if you think it might take too much work. It might turn out that he thinks there is a simple way to proof that reflexology is true, which you agree to and can prove simply.

    7. Re:On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by taustin · · Score: 1

      There's always an excuse, isn't there?

      If you don't know anything about reflexology, how do you know it's not complete and total bullshit?

    8. Re:On Science, Not Science, and Not Not Science by deglr6328 · · Score: 1

      HAHA! you must be a reaaaly great scientist with critical thinking skills like those.

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
  20. My human rights are being violated by Frantactical+Fruke · · Score: 2, Funny

    As a rollerblader I must register my disapproval of any stories displaying cobblestones in a positive light.

    Pave the earth!
    Turn paradise into a parking lot!
    And put those elderly patients on blades. I guarantee they'll gain "improvements in balance and physical performance" - or die trying.

    Oh, and Mozilla (Debian package 1.7.8-1) crashed with a segmentation fault the first time I hit reply on this story. The international cobblestone conspiracy has agents working on free software!!! Foam! Splutter! Moan!

  21. An infomercial by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
    In other news, Amazon says you should read more books, and Campbell says soup is good food.

    And this just in - Snickers make a good between-meal snack. "The benefits may lie in the foundations of Confectionary Science," said a spokesperson from the Mars Candy Company.

  22. PLEASE, RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for posting without having a clue Whether this "cobblestone" crap actually works I have no idea

    From TFA
    "The activity is rooted in traditional Chinese medicine and relates to some of the principles of reflexology, in that the uneven surface of the cobblestones stimulate and regulate "acupoints" located on the soles of the feet" & "until recently no controlled studies have been undertaken to scientifically evaluate its benefits and efficacy."

    They DID a study and compared two groups. They found a difference. They DID NOT say it was because of reflexology. And just because it relates to Traditional Chinese medicine does not reduce its value -- there may be a reason Traditional Medicine has survived for THOUSANDS of years -- it works.
    Does it cure everything? No, but answer me this -- does modern medicine?

  23. Porto by rpjs · · Score: 1

    I know this article sounds like a load of old bollocks, but we had a weekend in Porto, Portugal recently, where food and drink in restaurants is cheap and plentiful, and we noticed that despite this (apparently the Portuguese like to eat out a lot, and it certainly wasn't just us tourists in the restaurants) there weren't any noticeable numbers of fatties around, except for us. Another thing we noticed was how many of the streets in Porto, especially the old town, were cobbled.

    Clearly there *is* a correlation!

  24. Because it is true that's why by marcus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Personal experience:

    We got a treadmill. It is great for dialing in your heart rate. Adjust your speed in 1/10 of MPH increments and the incline with 1/2 degree resolution. Want 145 BPM and the monitor shows 139? It's easy, just speed up 1/10th MPH.

    Problem is, it is smooth, very smooth, IOW boring as far as your body is concerned.

    After months of watching TV while running on the 'mill, the weather was looking good and I got a wild hair and decided to run "in the wild". I ran the same distance(by GPS), in same amount of time, with the same heart rate monitor and maintained the same pulse rate. The next day, I was sore all over. My legs ached up and down as well as a variety of trunk muscles from hips to abs to ribs to shoulder blades.

    The only difference was that I ran on grass, dirt, up and down curbs, wooden bridges, dried creek beds, and I actually had to turn corners. It's a lot more of a workout than the smooth, monotonous 'mill.

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
    1. Re:Because it is true that's why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo. The same type of experience happened to me when I lost my cushy tech job and had to be a residential mover for a while. It's easy to left weights in the gym, because it's all in isolation and smoothed out... Try moving for one day, and you will not get up the next!

  25. An excellent post! by marcus · · Score: 1

    An article that produces dozens of quacks and counter-quacks then I get to read this!

    Superb!

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
  26. Penn & Tellar proved reflexology is.... by jameskojiro · · Score: 0

    BULLSHIT!!!

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
  27. Slashdot: News for nerds. Stuff that matters by part_of_you · · Score: 0

    Dude, you're getting a cobble-stone mat!

  28. well by sydres · · Score: 1

    I don't know about hemeopathic remedies, but herbal folk remedies are often quite effective because of chemical content, take for instance the willow tree it contains salycilic acid, a pain reliever. another herbal remedy boiled ephedra branches are an effective antihistamine. At least the herbal portions of homeopathic remedies can be quite effective, but unlike the infomercial statements the can be quite dangerous.

  29. I like soft surfaces better by dickens · · Score: 1

    I don't have much experience with cobblestones, there not being many near me, but I do strongly believe that walking on uneven surfaces is great exercise.

    If I walked a couple of miles on asphalt even with very good shoes, I would be hurting.

    But I can walk the same distance in boots with little cushioning as long as the trail is uneven. A mix of sand, gravel, rock and softer stuff like loam and leaf mould is great. Also it's good if the trail rolls up and down and includes some sideways traverses of slopes.

    Much more exercise and it feels great. It strengthens all the stability muscles in your legs and in the torso too.

    So go Geocaching today!