Survey Sees Tough Times for 360 in Japan

GamesIndustry.biz is reporting that a survey recently conducted by Japanese news agency C-News would tend to suggest that the Xbox 360 will encounter consumer resistance when it is launched in Japan. From the article: "The poor showing for the Revolution is perhaps understandable, given that Nintendo has released only sketchy outline details regarding the console so far - but the figure for the Xbox 360 will come as a disappointment to Microsoft, which has focused heavily on the Japanese market in recent months." GameDailyBiz has a look at the survey as well, concentrating on the PS3's popularity.

Comments

C stands for Captain obvious?

[Fr05t]

"C-News would tend to suggest that the Xbox 360 will encounter consumer resistance when it is launched in Japan."

No tell me it ain't so! I really expected the Xbox 360 to do so well in the Asian markets!

Oh crap I forgot to open my tag.

Re:C stands for Captain obvious?

[ZephyrXero]

I think this survey has happened too soon personally. Xbox360 hasn't had any real showing in Japan yet...just here in the states. The only thing the Japanese gamers know is from what they've seen happen over here and in magazines. Isn't MS having a big press conference later this month in Japan? And aren't there supposed to be alot of big name Japanese developers on board this time? I think they need to redo this survey after that happens...and then maybe once more when the official prices come out.

Protectionism?

[UberChuckie]

Is protectionism a factor in the same people many people would only buy domestic cars?

Re:Protectionism?

[danzona]

Is protectionism a factor in the same people many people would only buy domestic cars?

I don't know if I would call this protectionism (maybe nationalism?) but I agree with your example.

The same mindset that made Americans (back in the 70s/80s) insist that American cars were better than Japanese cars, despite overwhemling contrary evidence, probably exists in some Japanese making them insist that Japanese consoles are better than American consoles.

Although in this case they are probably right.

Re:Protectionism?

[badasscat]

Is protectionism a factor in the same people many people would only buy domestic cars?

(I'm guessing your first "people" should be "way")

Some people (or as I like to call them, "idiots") suggested when the Xbox first bombed in Japan that it was because of some sort of "racism" or xenophobia against westerners. You don't seem to be going that far, which is good, but I should probably try to head this off before it goes down that road...

The Japanese have no xenophobia towards westerners. In fact, just the opposite - American and European products are "in" in Japan and have been for some time now. Levi's, McDonald's, Starbucks, Gucci, Prada, all incredibly powerful and popular brands in Japan. Western-style clothing has completely replaced Japanese-style clothing, western-style weddings are now standard (even if the participants are not Christian), and for a while the #1 film of all time there was Titanic. Even Pearl Harbor did pretty good box office, considering!

So to even suggest there's protectionism, xenophobia or worse, "racism" going on is at best ignorant.

The fact is MS just got it so completely wrong with the original Xbox that they will probably never recover there. They paid absolutely no attention to the wants of Japanese gamers at first - they do have different tastes, and they have different wants and needs as far as the design of the console itself goes. The system was not what they wanted, the games were not what they wanted.

One thing about Japan is there is a lot of brand loyalty, and conversely a lot of brand avoidance. If a company gets a reputation, it is very hard to shake that reputation. The Xbox pretty quickly got a reputation as being big, ugly, unreliable (the scratched disc issue was a big story there), with bad games that nobody wanted to play. Despite the marketing for the 360, that reputation is going to be a very tough thing to overcome there. If you ask a gamer in Japan what they think of when they hear "Xbox", the most likely answer is going to be "kusoge" (I'll leave you to look that up).

Even ignoring that, though, I'm not convinced the Xbox 360 has overcome all of the original Xbox's issues. It is still big. It is still not styled the way the Japanese expect a console to be styled. (Painting the thing white does not automatically make it look like a Japanese product.) The PS3 has some issues too, but Sony's brand loyalty can overcome that. MS is not operating from that position of strength there so they really had to nail the design of the system, and they didn't. At least not for Japan, despite all their best efforts (including consulting with a Japanese design studio - who they seem to have totally ignored).

I have a feeling MS will get more than 2% of the market when all is said and done, as they really are making a push with developers there this time. But they will still be a very distant third, and I'm not sure the ROI is going to justify the effort and expense.

Re:Protectionism?

[alphaseven]

Is protectionism a factor in the same people many people would only buy domestic cars?

Maybe, except they've done poorly in all the Asian markets. I'm surprised they're so far behind Sony in Korea.

Re:Protectionism?

[interiot]

Go to Akihabara and compare the number of iPods on display to the number of XBox's (hint: tons of ipods, only one or two xboxes). Go on the Tokyo subway or visit tech worker's mini-cubicles, and count how many iPods you see (hint: lots).

Japanese aren't really that xenophobic.

Re:Protectionism?

[interiot]

What is it with Mitsubishis and Hondas in Japan? In the US, it seems like there's a fairly even mix of Honds, Toyotas, Nissans, and at least some Mitsubishis. In japan, everything is Toyota with some Nissans ("Nissan Cube", worst. name. ever.). A japanese person was surprised that we buy Mitsubishis in the US, she said something about them catching on fire or something.

But yeah, my impression was definitely that there's a lot of brand loyalty/avoidance over there.

Re:Protectionism?

[interiot]

(or, at least fairly different brand loyalty than in the US)

Re:Protectionism?

[ZephyrXero]

I think it has less to do with nationalism and more to do with the fact that there weren't many Japanese made GAMES on the first Xbox... Where the system is not nearly as important as the actual games they're playing on it. There's supposed to be about 10 times the Japanese support this time, so it should do alot better this go round on that factor alone.

Re:Protectionism?

[vertinox]

Is protectionism a factor in the same people many people would only buy domestic cars?

Only if the foreign car sellers put the steering wheel on the wrong side of the car for 25 years.

Re:Protectionism?

[SparksMcGee]

The fact is MS just got it so completely wrong with the original Xbox that they will probably never recover there. They paid absolutely no attention to the wants of Japanese gamers at first - they do have different tastes, and they have different wants and needs as far as the design of the console itself goes. The system was not what they wanted, the games were not what they wanted.

Even ignoring that, though, I'm not convinced the Xbox 360 has overcome all of the original Xbox's issues. It is still big. It is still not styled the way the Japanese expect a console to be styled.

certainly "racism" is too harsh but I think your own contentions support the idea that there is just some inherent resistance to Western notions of videogaming in Japan. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with this kind of attitude; People like what they like, but as a matter of cultural difference yes, Microsoft is facing an uphill battle. The XBox is hardly what I would call "big" considering the kind of hardware in it (that is, relative to the size of my desktop), and frankly I think white looks ugly on hardware (IMHO! I am NOT trying to take a stab at Apple). But if these sorts of considerations are inverted in a foreign market, then albeit "protectionism" or "racism" may be an incorrect moniker, but cultural resistance definitely may hurt the 360 in Japan.

And that's very interesting that Sony has such a good rep in Japan. My own experience with / perception of Sony products has always been that there are a few products that actually see a great deal of quality control (the PSP, Trinitron monitors, etc.), but that part of the tradeoff of Sony's ubiquitous presence in electronics is a certain lack of quality and reliability relative to other or more specialized brands. I may be wholly incorrect about this but I usually passively avoid Sony products all things being equal (though not to the extent I'll turn down a well-reviewed product or a good price advantage).

Re:Protectionism?

[badasscat]

May I enquire if you have been there?

Only about a hundred times, both as part of my former job in the video game industry and for pleasure.

Since all of us have AIDS and enjoy raping japanese youths, you won't live long enough to enjoy the close company of many Japanese.

You'd probably want to inform my wife of that. She was born and raised in Ryu-Gasaki. How do you think I know about western Japanese weddings?

btw, you are one of the "people" I was referring to in my original post. If this is your idea of what Japanese people think of us, then you are at best misinformed.

Re:Protectionism?

[Pluvius]

The Japanese have no xenophobia towards westerners.

Except that they do (though it is beginning to die out along with the older generations of set-in-their-ways Japanese, as is their traditionally conformist culture). They might like some of our products, but that doesn't mean that even a majority of them like us as a people. As for how nicely they treat Americans? That's called "politeness," something that the Japanese are very good at. The Japanese aren't nearly as xenophobic as they were 50 years ago, but to say that they aren't xenophobic at all towards Westerners is simply absurd.

I doubt that this relates all that much to the showing of the XBox in Japan, though. The simple fact is that the Japanese in general do not like Western games. Even if Microsoft had made something smaller than the Gamecube with a higher reliability than the PS2, it wouldn't have mattered, unless doing so would've attracted Japanese game developers (an interesting question in itself).

Rob

Re:Protectionism?

[Khuffie]

Wait...did you just say the PSP went through a great deal of quality control?

Re:Protectionism?

[10101001 10101001]

The XBox is hardly what I would call "big" considering the kind of hardware in it (that is, relative to the size of my desktop)

Most consumers don't consider the kind of hardware in a game console. They want it to function reliably, run the sort of games they want to play, and not be too big/too small. To put it another way, if MS had decided to use a lead inner coating for the XBox, to reduce EM interference or whatever, would you merely shrug off the extra 20lbs or would you be at all moved to consider getting another console?

Look at the current titles

[Iriel]

Just a glance at the games available for the Xbox and another look at some of the most popular games and genres in Japan should shed some light on this big mystery that Microsoft can't figure out.

While not all, most of the Xbox games are pretty geared towards American pop-gaming trends, and you can't expect to market to another country when you don't speak their language (figuratively, of course). You have to know your audience.

Re:Look at the current titles

[Gulthek]

Japanese games were (in the NES and SNES days) geared toward Japanese pop-gaming trends; but that didn't stop them from being fanatically popular in the US.

Re:Look at the current titles

[Iriel]

That's because in the NES and SNES days, console gaming wasn't the industry that it is now. People have multiple vendors to choose from (even PC) and the wealth of titles available for each is enormous when put together.

Back then, it was a little bit easier to impress when there wasn't as much selection for consoles in the US or there was a niche yet to be filled by American game developers.

Now there is a plethora of choice in the gaming market, and most people that have the option to get a system aren't left in the dark about what's out there. It's possible that Microsoft could eventually gain a small footing in Japan in time, but the current trends don't seem to have a demand for what they offer.

Re:Look at the current titles

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Actually, I remember reading somewhere that back in the NES/SNES days Nintendo was very commited to making their games as universally appealing as possible.

For example, in the early days of Nintendo of America, it was administered by a mix of Japanese and American people, so that they could act as some kind of ambassadors who would report back to Nintendo HQ about current trends and cultural issues.

They seemed to have stopped doing that now though.

Re:Look at the current titles

[Shadow99_1]

duh. But you know why they are like that? It starts with most Japanese developers shunning the xbox when it came out. Team Ninja (part of Namco) was about the only development team to insist on Xbox. Most developers just ignored it from the start, with no one who developes Japanese games (with the one noted exception) developing for the xbox who was supposed to make Japanese style games for it? US game companies? Eroupian game companies? I don't think they would understand what makes a game a japanese style game...

Re:Look at the current titles

[Shadow99_1]

Um dude team ninja makes DOA games and Ninja Gaiden, they don't make anything else for Namco and frankly Team Ninja itself wasn't paid anything to use the Xbox... ANotehr team in Namco made Rygar (which frankly I'm not willing to call better than DOA or Ninja Gaiden).

Also in the US MS had alot of 3rd party xbox support with only a few notable exceptions that eventually came over anyways. Japan could have seen better games from Japanese developers if other developers would have just taken a chance, but none did. Well at least not til now with several offshot development companies and Square Enix wanting a piece of the pie...

I will mention some really nice Japanese oriented games that MS had made for xbox and did (to a limited extent) come out in the US as well like Phantom Crash and Phantom Dust (don't ask why they both ahve 'Phantom' in the name). I have owned both (& I kick myself every day for the last year because I traded Phantom Crash in which was a great game I'd still like to play now) and each had interesting gameplay and a very japanese presentation, but got no response from either Japan or the US...

No Shit

[rAiNsT0rm]

Wow, this took a scientific survey? The Japanese are not suckers like we are here, in fact Europe is not either when it comes to consoles. One mediocre game (Halo) is not enough to get them excited in the least. They demand innovation, sometimes wacky, and also games that are targeted to them. Xbox will never supply this. How many unique puzzle games on Xbox... yeah. How many dating simulators/train simulators/anime/etc. titles on xbox... yeah. How many Hentai, Mahjongg, puyo pop, Katmari Damacy's... yeah. Oooh, a ton of crap-ass eye-candy FPS titles and an old GC rehash of Kameo redone... gee, I wonder why the Japanese aren't buying MS's bullshit marketing toward them.

Please, I just wish Americans would wake up and realize that these new FPS/media "consoles" are about as lame as vanilla ice cream when it comes to trying to push gaming forward.

Re:No Shit

[JFitzsimmons]

You're talking out your ass! From what I see, Japanese games suffer just as much from "play it again" syndrome as anyone else, perhaps even more. Console RPGs are almost entirely the same every time, as are side scrolling spaceship shooters, and there's also billions of those incredibly pointless slashers with no story that involves you mashing buttons for 20 hours straight until you beat the last boss.

American games on the other hand seem to focus on shooters more, and maybe racers, and sports games - which in my eyes also suffer from an incredible lack in originality.

So while it may be true that the Japanese market has different intrests than the American one, I think they also suffer from game innovation problems.

Surely you're not suggesting that every game made in Japan is incredibly original and thoughful, and brings us to a new plateu of gameplay? I would hope not. Some Japanese games do, as you've mentioned, but then again a handful of American games have also made some progress when it comes to thinking up something new instead of just falling into lockstep.

Re:No Shit

[rAiNsT0rm]

I never stated ALL Japanese games are innovative... I stated exactly what I meant, the Japanese demand originality and innovation much more than Americans do. I was a game reviewer for some years, and have extensively worked in the industry, I am quite sure of my comments.

Think back through the major innovative games, how many originated in Japan or from a Japanese game? TONS. Tetris is an exception, Myst to some extent, and a few others but could be counted without taking my pants or shoes off.

The real innovation in gaming comes from Japan, to argue that is stupidity. Americans are happy with more of the same, and sequels and clones... it's sad. Japan has it's share of junk and clones and we have FPS/twitch crap it is all overdone and losing luster.

Take a couple minutes to search the current top titles in Japan and over the life of the same consoles as in america and look at the differences. They are quite apparent.

Re:No Shit

[Serapth]

Hmmmm.... lets see... innovations out of the "west" as there isnt alot of difference between Western European, Canadian and American developers to make a distinction.

1) CREATED THE FIRST COMMERICALLY SUCCESSFUL CONSOLES!!!! Hmmm... thats a pretty big one isnt it? The Atari and Intellivision basically invented the market. Not to mention the games on those systems pioneered most of the concepts that are cloned today.

2) Created the first 1st person shooter. Thats a pretty big deal, no?

3) Basically created every innovation in sports games.

4) Pioneered physics in games.

5) The entire line of SIM games. Hell, basically Will Wright has ever done.

6) The god game genre. Aka, Populous

7) The first real time strategy games. Aka, Star Craft

8) Computer RPGs. Yeah, the thing everyone thinks Japanese do so well refined from North American games.

9) FMV in video games. Hmmm you think the final fantasy series really started it? HAHA, no.
Innovation is slowing down, because frankly a lot of ideas have been implemented. We are in an age of refinement now.



Frankly what have the Japanese game companies done thats really that mind blowingly innovative. Pretty much every Final Fantasy game is formulaic drivel that sports dialogue I cant help but think an angst filled 12 year old wrote. Gran Turismo is basically just a very good implementation of something thats been done in hundreds of games. Really, when it comes down to it, I can only think of a handful of really original games coming from Japan. The whole pet genre ( think Nintendogs or that weird fish game for the dreamcast ) but really how much different from SimX is that? Super Mario XXII? Zelda XV? Megaman XXXII? Super Ultimate Street Final Mega 2 Turbo Extreme Subversion 3b?

They are no more innovative then any western developers. In fact, I would have to argue the opposite based of reliance on sequels to the point of nausea.

Ironically, the most innovative game Ive seen from Japan in a good five years was for the Xbox. Steel Battalion. Plus, it isnt so much the game thats impressive, but the control. I do appreciate the bold risk they took to make it though.

Re:No Shit

[Serapth]

To be fair, there is one area I missed that the japanese are big at. The party game. the donkey cong drum game, and Dance Dance revolutions come to mind.

I wont bother with my personal opinion on these games, but I will admit, for reasons I dont understand other people seem to enjoy them. Then again... other people enjoy Karaoke... probrably the same group.

So I suppose net result, I can think of two Japanese contributions to the world of gaming.. 1- the pet game
2- the party game

I give the Japanese credit for Pokemon too... but that isnt so much a video game topic. Its a completely different form of gaming that got implemented as a game. Also, Im not sure pokemon is the first CCG out there. I think it is, but wont say with authority either way.

Re:No Shit

[Anonymous Coward]

Christ, who modded this dipshit up? Halo is mediocre? It only took the console gaming world by storm, that's all. And of course you don't mention that if one is a Star Wars fan, the XBOX is the only console, and that the 10,000 samurai games for PS2 don't make up for it. Yeah, apparently innovation in your mind is how many different directions you can slice up ninjas, bushi, ronin, etc.

Re:No Shit

[rAiNsT0rm]

HaHa, you are an idiot and you have now proved it with your completely off-base response which is wrong on so many factual levels it would take me hours to break them all down.

hehe, yeah lump in Canada, Europe, etc. to claim *AMERICA* is where innovation comes from. Christ, flawed logic spews forth from your post like a waterfall. Umm, Molyneux is not American by the way... but again, in your made up world he is.

Gee, simulation titles aren't deried from Japanese titles... heh, whatever.

Yeah, you must be right, "pet" games and "party" games that's all the Japanese have contributed... what an asshat. You now must revoke your geek license and go sit in the corner because everyone now sees the sheer stupidity you have created in your mind.

Re:No Shit

[Serapth]

1 - We also created a console that nearly destroyed the market and it took a Japanese console to revive it. Japanese also invented the D-pad, a controller concept that still lives to this day on any video game console that is not a PC.

Hey... I never said that North Americans are better at the business... this conversation is about Innovation, remember.

2 - Japanese players, for the most part, don't play FPS games.
3 - Japanese players, for the most part, don't play Western oriented sports games.
4 - Most "physics" engines revolve around FPS games. See 2.

All of those points, while greatly over-generalizing the Japanese people, are most true. Thing is, they arent relevant. Or do we now measure innovation exclusively off what the japanese market thinks??? Those three things... sports games, fps and physics have all been sources of innovation... who gives a fuck if the Eastern markets dont like to play them. They were still innovative.

Please note that the ORIGINAL Final Fantasy, Super Mario, Zelda, Megaman, Street Fighter 2, were VERY original games for their time. All from Japan. Oh wait, were you trying to say that those games originally came from the West?
Where did I ever say those games came from the west? However, honestly... those games were all good... but really, with the exception of Street Fighter 2 ( which ironically is a sequel ), what was really innovative about any of them. You seem to be mixing quality with innovative. Innovative != Quality && Quality != Innovative. I never once said *GOOD* or *EXCELLENT* games dont come from Japan, they really do. Ive just said that Japan isnt the source of all innovation people like to portray it as.

Maybe if you looked at THEIR market, and not the FPS, sports-filled Western market, you wouldn't sound so much like a jackass.

Funny... maybe if you had slightly better reading comprehension skills, you may be able to form a response to the *actual* argument being put forth.

Re:No Shit

[rAiNsT0rm]

heh, you really amuse me. It's the only reason I keep wasting time to reply. Umm, I am an American and covered American games for well over 4 years... a japanese fanboy I am not in the least, I simply have a solid grasp of the videogame industry and history. I still find it funny that you equate the fucking *publisher* with mattering at all in where the game was developed. How sad, a publisher simply publishes a game. Yeah all of those games were NOT created and developed by an American or in America, my point exactly. When you beat a game and the credits roll how many times do you see American names taking up the majority of the screen? Yeah, didn't think so.

Here's a shortlist from memory, I am not going to post why each is innovative but will be glad to for each listed:

Game and Watch, ICO, REZ, Seaman, Jet Set Radio, Silent Hill, Shenmue, Animal Crossing, DDR, Parappa, Mad Maestro, Katmari Damacy, Mr. Mosquito, Nintendogs, Double Dragon/Street Fighter, Bubble Bobble, King of Fighters, Virtua Fighter, 1942, Mahjongg, Nintendo in general, possibly Super Mario Bros., Puyo Pop, Pokemon, Shining Force, Train Simulators, Dating simulators, and that's off the top of my head.

I don't plan on arguing with you anymore, this subject comes up and people can argue till their blue in the face. The simple fact that if you took Japan (hardware and software innovations) out of the gaming equation where would we be? Walk up and down the isle at EBGames and look for American developed titles that are AAA and innovative... I'll wait.

Re:No Shit

[Frac]

1) CREATED THE FIRST COMMERICALLY SUCCESSFUL CONSOLES!!!! Hmmm... thats a pretty big one isnt it? The Atari and Intellivision basically invented the market. Not to mention the games on those systems pioneered most of the concepts that are cloned today.

You mean like how Henry Ford invented the automobile?

I think the real point you're trying to make is how american companies are great at creating new industries. And they're also really good at getting pushed out of the market due to their incompetence.

7) The first real time strategy games. Aka, Star Craft

Starcraft is one of the first real time strategy games? Hey kid, you're way too young to pretend to know anything about games.

They are no more innovative then any western developers. In fact, I would have to argue the opposite based of reliance on sequels to the point of nausea.

Yeah, Western games are never about sequels. Halo? Ultima? Doom? Quake? Warcraft? Diablo? Madden? Sim Whatever?

Re:No Shit

[Serapth]

You mean like how Henry Ford invented the automobile? Actually no. Henry Fords contribution to *INNOVATION* was the automated assembly line, not the automobile. The car had existed before he was born. But yes, once your acknowledge his proper innovation its actually a fairly good parallel.

We are talking about INNOVATION, im getting pretty sick of repeating that, as pretty much everyone that has responded seems to be missing that fact.

Here for quick reference... or incase you simply dont understand, here is the definition of innovation.
innovation ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-vshn)
n.
The act of introducing something new.
Something newly introduced.

Bold emphasis added by me. SOMETHING NEW. A refinement of an existing concept isnt innovation, its refinement. Thats why we have to different words in the first place.

I am not arguing that Japan makes bad games... I am not arguing that Western games dont have sequels aswell. I am simply arguing that the majority of innovation in the gaming industry actually happened in the West, not in Japan.

Starcraft is one of the first real time strategy games? Hey kid, you're way too young to pretend to know anything about games.

Um... actually I used StarCraft as an example of an RTS game, not as the first RTS. That is up for argument... most people whoever claim that Dune was the first true RTS. Considering I grew up with gaming, starting with the intellivision on up, I think im plenty old enough to understand it.

Point blank, there really isnt alot of innovation left in the industry or atleast not major innovation. Its just the way it happens... when a media is new, hell not being innovative is a bloody hard thing to do. Now, draw a parallel to movies, and how many "innovative" concepts do you see anymore? In the last 20 years... Maybe a dozen or so new techniques, and evolutionary changes to the technology behind it. Video gaming is hitting that point now.

Re:No Shit

[Serapth]

I will admit the whole fighting game is pretty much locked by the East. That is an area I will hands down admit they innovate in.

That aside, almost every example you gave isnt actually innovative at all, except of course the ones ive already mentioned. Many of them are damned fine games, but the core almost every one is a refinement of an existing play dynamic. I guess the problem is partially the game media itself, the word innovative is thrown around WAYYYY to much, so people start associating refined with innovative.

If you really want, im willing to break down the evolution of almost every game you've listed and illustrate the game is just a refinement on something that has already been done. Hey, dont get me wrong, its just as true in the west anymore... I think innovation on both sides of the pond is pretty stagnant. I have hype hopes the revolution is as advertised. But I doubt it :(

I have a feeling though, no matter what is said, you and I will disagree on this point. Your definition of innovation seems to be of a much smaller grain then mine.

Re:No Shit

[brkello]

You have issues, my friend. Japanese are "suckers" just like everywhere else in the world. XBox was just not geared to their lifestyle. They like sleek, compact designs since they have much smaller living spaces. The original controller was too large for their hands. The XBox was designed with a Westerners in mind and that is why it failed there. Not because they aren't suckered in as much as Westerners or some other ignorant, racist statement like that. There are plenty of appealing things about the XBox and there are plenty of good games as well. Just because you weren't impressed with Halo, many others were. What gives you the right to tell others what there taste should be? The XBox is graphically superior to the PS2 and the Gamecube. I don't mind the fact it takes up space, I have a big house. I like the controller better than my other consoles. But I like having all the three because all three have great exclusive games. Get over your elitist attitude. Yeah, all the new conosles are all FPS/media machines...give me a break. You know what they are...they are computers, that's it. So if you think they are lame, you must hate the thing you are typing on right now because it is essentially the same damn thing.

I wish you would wake up and see not everyone has to like the same things you like. Seriously, grow up.

Re:No Shit

[Cornflake917]

If you're going to use Starcraft as an example, you might as well use Warcraft I and II. Starcraft IMHO is still the best RTS out there though.

Re:No Shit

[Cornflake917]

Wow, you modders have some serious issues. Any time some one says something along the lines of "Americans are naive and stupid," they get modded insightful. Why is that? The parent's post is nothing but flamebait.

There are no such thing as "FPS/Media Consoles." Hentai and dating games are not innovative (serously you're trying to tell us porn is innovative?) And Americans aren't clueless about video games. They just have a different and less socially inept taste of video games than the parent's.

Re:No Shit

[identity0]

Your understanding of innovation is absurd, if you think that the endless streams of American FPSes, RTSes, and EASports titles are worthy of being called 'innovation'. I could make just as much fun of "Doom Quakem Forever XVIII Arena Tournament to Capture Some Goddamn Flag" or "Madden (insert year here)" or "Command of Warcraft: Age of Kingdoms XX", or "NASCAR: Turn Left For Three Hours". Of course, there are innovative games coming out of the US, as there is in Japan, but let's just ignore that and throw insults at longstanding series, shall we?

The only new genre that has come out recently are rythm games, and I believe Japan created it. Other genres created by Japan include stealth games, rail shooters, 3d racing games, etc.

there isnt alot of difference between Western European, Canadian and American developers to make a distinction.
I think many of them would take offense at that, especially the Europeans. They have distinct differences in design, especially the French.

1) CREATED THE FIRST COMMERICALLY SUCCESSFUL CONSOLES!!!! Hmmm... thats a pretty big one isnt it? The Atari and Intellivision basically invented the market. Not to mention the games on those systems pioneered most of the concepts that are cloned today.
Yes, and you guys lost the crown sometime between the SMS and NES. So keep bragging about your pre-80s dominance. Care to name an American console you'd like to have that came out between the Atari and the Xbox?

2) Created the first 1st person shooter. Thats a pretty big deal, no?
And you guys have been remaking that same game ever since, with bettwer graphics. What coming out next year, "Return to The Ruins of Castle Wolfenstein to Beat A Dead Horse"?

3) Basically created every innovation in sports games.
I don't play those, but IIRC, Europeans were ahead in innovation for soccer and racing games for a long time.

4) Pioneered physics in games.
Care to explain? Nearly every game has an inbuilt physics system, so I assume you mean 'realistic physics'?

5) The entire line of SIM games. Hell, basically Will Wright has ever done.
The guy has been flogging a dead horse for years. He does have his fans, though.

6) The god game genre. Aka, Populous
You mean the one that was made by a Frenchman?

7) The first real time strategy games. Aka, Star Craft
Ahahaha... you must be new at this "gaming" thing, if you can't remember WarCraft II, C&C (not the music factory), Dune II... there are others that are arguably 'RTSes', but Dune II from Westwood Studios is generally considered the first RTS.

8) Computer RPGs. Yeah, the thing everyone thinks Japanese do so well refined from North American games.
American RPGs are different enough from Japanese RPGs that many consider them separate genres. American RPGs are like a D&D game with a computer instead of a GM, Japanese RPGs are more action and character-oriented.

Re:No Shit

[Serapth]

Argh... same bloody thing.

FPS's arent innovative... the first one was. If you read my other posts ive made, I already explained dune is regarded as the first RTS.

Innovation was about the first console, the first FPS, the first RTS, etc... etc... after that, theres a ton of derivitive shit, but thats never been what I was talking about.

Re:No Shit

[bullitB]

One mediocre game is not enough to get them excited in the least.

Rather, it takes dozens of mediocre games. Long, multi-game series of mediocre games. Entire generes of mediocre games.

Use of irritating, nonsensical titles helps too.

Re:No Shit

[rAiNsT0rm]

I would love for you to show me how Game and Watch is not one of the biggest innovations and spawned the entire console market. I would love for you to show me prior art for Bubble Bobble, I would also love to see how you attempt to break some of these down. Shenmue was the first title to have unrestrained production values, another huge innovation... not in game design/play but in how games are created. Not all innovation means that it has been done before, simply an innovative twist that changes gaming overall or in it's genre. Innovation does not mean totally new, never been done before, change the world... if it did then after the total number of plotline structures for books/film were defined no one has innovated since. c'mon. I find it so funny how many people are angered by the fact when someone states the Japanese innovate in electronics and games... it is a fact. Americans, europeans, and the rest have done soem cool shit too... but they are hardly the driving force of the media. Ever notice how MS needs to pander to the Japanese to succeed, there is a reason, America and Europe put together don't matter to them if they can't capture at least a chunk of Japan and Japanese designers.

Re:No Shit

[wheany]

What about Rogue Squadron and Rogue Leader?

Gameindustry.biz

[Silicon Mike]

Everytime I go to their site I look for the place to mark their articles 'troll'.

Doesn't surprise me

[alvinrod]

Given how the Xbox sold so poorly in Japan, I'm not surprised that the Xbox 360 is expected to. To get an idea of just how much the Japanese seem to dislike the Xbox take a look at this article from GameSpot about sales in Japan for various games/consoles.

The Xbox sales for the first half of this year are 9,000 some units. Well that's to be expected from old hardware right? Wrong, the PS2 sold over one million units in the same time frame, and it's older than the Xbox. Additionally the top selling Xbox game in the period was Fable, selling 12,000 units. A re-released PS game sold more copies than it.

I'm not sure what it is about Japanese consumers that turns them away from the Xbox. Maybe it's the fact that both Sony and Nintendo are Japanese companies whereas Microsoft is from the US. Even with games like FFXI slated to come out for the Xbox 360, I don't think it's going to do much for it in the Japanese market. I firmly believe it will be #1 in America, but in Japan it might as well not even try.

Re:Doesn't surprise me

[thesandtiger]

I think it is largely a cultural difference, not a nationalistic difference.

Look at the styles of the games that do well in the larger markets in Japan and the US. For the most part, the Japanese mainstream just doesn't get into the same stuff that makes the USians buy games, and for the most part the reverse is true in the US.

If Microsoft wants the 360 to do well in Japan, they're going to need to make a huge investment in getting a large library of games that the average Japanese person will want to play. Sony did it right with the PS and PS2 - they have a huge library of games for Japanese gamers, and another huge library of games for USian gamers.

Now as to the FFXI game for the 360 - that's *one* game. And, there will be a few more that are *sort of* geared towards the Japanese market. But, unless Microsoft can come up with a must-have like Nintendogs, these few titles just aren't going to cut it.

To put it in reverse: Imagine if the PS2 library of "american" games numbered less than a dozen - no sports games, no beat-em-ups, no driving games, none of that stuff. How many USians do you think would buy a PS2 just so they could play Parappa the Rapper? My guess - about the same number proportionately as the number of Japanese who'll buy a 360 for FFXI.

Re:Doesn't surprise me

[Juanvaldes]

To put it in reverse: Imagine if the PS2 library of "american" games numbered less than a dozen - no sports games, no beat-em-ups, no driving games, none of that stuff. How many USians do you think would buy a PS2 just so they could play Parappa the Rapper? My guess - about the same number proportionately as the number of Japanese who'll buy a 360 for FFXI.
I believe that was called the Gamecube.

Mark the article as flamebait

[AzraelKans]

Seriously guys, why do tou even try to name the xbox here in slashdot? are you fond of answers such as "xbox suck$! instead lets propose nintendo as a new religion!" or "fps are the the same since doom"? most of the people here use linux and/or are over 30, they hate MS with the passion of a thousand tortured souls.

Anyway, yes it did came as a surprise, not this article, but the lack of asian oriented games for x360 out of the bunch of fps titles and heavily american based games (such as madden) only 3 or 4 seem to care about that market. FF online, the new rpg by the creators of FF, shenmue some number (which wasnt even shown) and 99 knights. Not enough to warrant the attention. It seems to me MS is not that interested in that market anymore.

Re:Mark the article as flamebait

[Serapth]

I wouldnt say that. What you saw from the XBox was at E3, with marketing targeted at North American gamers. They showed what they figured there target audience wanted to see ( sports games and shooters mostly ).

Later this month, they have their unveiling in Japan. This is most likely where the new announced Square game is going to shown. This is where Mistwalker studios games will be shown... The markets are different and the games those markets want to see are different. I would want until after the Japan specific event has happenned before judging XBox2's appeal to that market.

Re:Mark the article as flamebait

[AzraelKans]

Wow, thanks I didnt knew that, thats the best answer Ive gotten here. ;)

Still there are some key areas where MS apparently didnt considered the Japanese the most obvious of them is size, MS promised the x360 would be smaller, since Japanese want their consoles to be easily portable, they didnt comply with that (although the ps3 isnt so small either). Lets wait and see...

You missed a detail.

[AzraelKans]

Your theory (which is what it is after all) seems interesting except for a detail, if western is so "IN" then shouldnt they be interested in western games as well?

I mean, when anime was completely "IN" America, anime games were also "IN". Suddenly Japanese can handle 2 hours of Pearl Harbor (dear god their resistence for crap is amazing) but they cant play halo ( a space soldier fighting aliens? there must be at least a 100 animes/manga with the same theme) or a Fighting/Volleyball game with girls showing cleavage? (I mean seriously THEY invented that genere)

Anyway if you look at it from a pretty strict point of view, the reason why there arent enough Japanese related games for the xbox is because there arent Japanese developers for the Xbox in the first place, so Why the japanese dont want to develop games for it? since a western console is so "IN" according your theory?

Also the xbox is technically speaking just like and in some details even better than Japanese consoles. So no, technology is not an issue. (and in case you were wondering yes there is xbox live and DSL in Japan)

Sorry but your theory doesnt hold water at all.

Guess what? people who believe the Japanese are a bit protectionist may not be idiots after all.

Re:You missed a detail.

[jclast]

That's exactly the point. You claim the Japanese should want Halo and DOA3 volleyball. Go into any Japanese game store and tell me a Japanese gamer needs an XBox to play a space-themed shooter or a game with cleavage. As far as cleavage goes, they'll get a lot more of it for their money out of a "dating" sim. The XBox failed in Japan not only because it was ugly and big, but because there isn't any compelling reason for the Japanese gamer to buy it.

Re:You missed a detail.

[jclast]

It may not be as huge as in Japan, but anime certainly is "in" in America.

We have sanitized versions, but look at an elementary school. I guarentee you'll find a bunch of young kids talking about Dragonball, Pokemon, and/or YuGiOh (all Japanese-made anime). Kids will have anime backpacks, shirts, binders, and video games.

Anime is shown on Cartoon Network and G4 (at least one of which, many people with cable get). For those of us with satellite, there's also an entire Anime network. There are several large conventions devoted to anime here (I used to staff ACen when I lived in Chicago), and if the DVDs weren't selling, companies wouldn't be spending money to subtitle and/or dub anime series for North American release. We're even copying anime styles in our own cartoon series. Teen Titans, though made domestically, borrows quite heavily from the anime style.

It may not be your cup of tea, but anime is definitely "in" in the US.

Re:You missed a detail.

[badasscat]

Your theory (which is what it is after all) seems interesting except for a detail, if western is so "IN" then shouldnt they be interested in western games as well?

Two things:

1. They are interested in western games. They are just not interested in bad western games. American and to some extent European audiences don't seem to see the difference. I mean what are you expecting, a crap GTA ripoff like True Crime: Streets of LA to sell as many copies in Japan as here? A mediocre shooter like Halo selling millions of copies? The fact that American gamers have lost their sense of taste doesn't mean everybody else in the world has.

But good western games do sell there. GTA3 has sold close to 500,000 copies and Vice City also topped the charts, as two examples. EA's sports games also do pretty well. Right now, a Ghost Recon game is sitting at #17. So it's not true that they will not buy western games; they will buy them if they think they're good.

Also, you're assuming every western game is even released there, which is not the case at all. The Xbox library in Japan is miniscule in comparison to here. The number of PS2 games from the west is also tiny there. If they had the choice, they'd probably buy even more than they do - I mean the Xbox is not the only system in the world that western developers release games for.

But...

2. Just because a culture is considered hip or cool doesn't mean every single aspect of that culture has to be accepted. The point I was making is that it's foolish to suggest that the Japanese are generally xenophobic or nationalistic - they are no moreso than any other country, and the fact that so many western brands and products are popular there is proof of that. That doesn't mean they need to have exactly the same tastes as we do, or that they need to accept anything we shove down their throats. This is exactly what MS thought would happen when they released the Xbox originally there, and when it didn't, they acted shocked and surprised. You've got that same mentality.

On the one hand you can take something and say "oh, the Japanese love western culture, so as long as we market this, they'll buy it", and on the other hand you can throw up your hands and say "oh, they're just a bunch of xenophobes, they hate everything that's not Japanese". Neither of these statements is true in the slightest, and I was neither implying nor stating they were.

What I was stating was that there is no ingrained bias against foreign products, and that in fact in parts of the demographic there is an ingrained bias in favor of foreign products. That doesn't mean you don't still have to take individual tastes into account.

There is no big mystery about the Japanese consumer mentality, but it still seems like so many people just don't get it. In almost all basic ways they are just like us. That doesn't mean they have the same tastes as us, but they do make their decisions basically the same way - i.e. "has this company made products I've been happy with before? What is their reputation? Do my friends like their products? Does the product look good? Will the product fit in my house? And do the sub-products [e.g. games] that go along with it also meet those criteria?" It really is not rocket science, but it does require some homework to identify and understand the differing cultural tastes at work.

Guess what? people who believe the Japanese are a bit protectionist may not be idiots after all.

I see you've taken that personally. Looks like I hit the mark.

Re:You missed a detail.

[jclast]

If anime is so in, why is it that for the most part, anime is shown in totally undesirable timeslots (late night, Fridays or Saturdays)?

Is Sci-Fi also not "in" then? Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, and Battlestar Galactica are all doing well, but they are shown on Friday night.

Why are people who watch a lot of anime considered geeks or otakus?

Because people make fun of other people. Humans suck and make one another feed bad. It's what we do.

Try talking to a random person about Spirited Away. Chances are, they won't know what you're talking about and that movie won a freakin' Oscar for gods sake.

Ask all those same people what they think of Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Big-O, Princess Mononoke, or countless others, and I'm sure they'll have at least heard of one. I'm sure there are movies that have won Osacrs you've never heard of either.

Only a select few animes are in, but anime as a whole is not.

That's like saying "Only a select few movies are in, but movies as a whole are not." Anime is a medium, not a genre.

Those kids who watch Dragonball, Pokemon or YuGiOh, generally only watch those animes and not a single other one. An example of this are my two cousins, one who watches YuGiOh, the other Pokemon. Neither of them even knows what anime is, nor watch any other anime shows at all.

See above. People enjoy shows for their content more often than the medium on which they are produced.

Conventions don't mean shit either. GCC has conventions, Linux has conventions, neither are in.

Conventions mean there is a following. If nobody liked it, the conventions would fail.

Re:You missed a detail.

[AzraelKans]

Ok now Im confused. First you said they went to see Pearl Harbor and now you are saying they want quality? ??

Ok so you didnt liked halo, congratulations, what about the millions of people who bought it in America and Europe and play it online almost every day?

Why did the Japanese bought GTA? because is an American game that plays Exclusively in a Japanese console? (at least for a few months)

What about phantom dust? thats a succesful Japanese exclusive xbox game that made fans buy one to play it, and it was published by MS produced by a Japanese company, how come there arent more games like that?

Also you cleverly avoided to answer why Japanese companies dont support xbox.

Look I dont want to state Japan is being racist, but they are clearly being protectionist, Japan dominated the console/videogames market for ages, now the Americans are developing their own consoles and even beating them in some areas (online play per example) is no wonder why they are avoiding it like the pest. (300 Xbox sold in a month? come on xbox is not THAT bad, thats less sales than the ngage!)

I see you've taken that personally. Looks like I hit the mark.

Oh come on! I was just saying your theory doesnt hold water. Is childish to denote those who oppose it, but ok have it your way. It doesnt make your point any less or more valid.

btw:Why dont you try to keep your posts a bit smaller? you could have edited all that to:
"I dont like xboxes therefore millions of Japanese share my opinion and dont buy them. It doesnt matter if thats the only market in the whole world where the xbox is dead last Is just that all the people in the world are stupid, me and Japanese are not." nice theory there.

Re:You missed a detail.

[AzraelKans]

Er.. I never said Anime wasnt "IN" America, it has always been "IN" I guess, but there was a time in which Anime and Japanese Games were extremely "IN" it started with the NES (Mario, SF2, FF, Chrono trigger) and became a phenomenon by the time the Playstation 1 hit (FF7, Tekken, Xenogears, SF Alpha, Guilty gear, etc) I remember playing and talking with people all day about Anime style games available.

I love Anime! ;) but you have to admit Anime games are not so "IN" anymore. GTA and Halo and MGS (which is still kind of anime styled) took that place.

Im not sure If Mario and Pokemon can be called "anime" there has been some discussion in the past about that.

Re:You missed a detail.

[PeelBoy]

http://www.nfleurope.com/

Re:You missed a detail.

[PeelBoy]

By that logic the ONLY thing that is in right now is Reality TV and GOD DAMN I HATE IT. Oh, and MAYBE Google and iPod are "in" but not much else really (that I can think of? Maybe Paris Hilton)..

I don't think "in" has to mean every single person in the entire fucking country wants to ride it's nuts. I mean.. that's like.. "really in". That's far surpassed just plain old "in".

It's like the great squirrel fire of '89

Re:You missed a detail.

[jclast]

I wouldn't call the Pokemon games anime. I'd say they're RPGs (pretty good and deep ones cosidering the target audience, too).

The Pokemon television series and movies, however, are definitely anime.

Re:You missed a detail.

[AzraelKans]

I'll answer: There's no money in it. MS failed Japanese buyers by not garnering the support of Japanese devs and pubs. Japanese buyers didn't buy Xbox as a result.

Thank you! there! we can summarize all this conversation to that.


Given that it's summer, a hi-mag magnifying glass should burn that straw man up just nicely.


Im not sure what does that mean, but I dont really want to know.

Btw: Contrary to popular belief, disagring and arguing doesnt mean trolling. ;)

Re:You missed a detail.

[Lynxara]

Japanese won't play Halo for the reason they won't play most FPS:

1) Games that simulate pointing guns at others from the first person are viewed as excessively violent and offensive. No, seriously, I can dig up quotes from Japanese gamers on this if you want. Third person is okay for some reason, I recall GTA being a hit over there with import fans.

2) Many Japanese gamers experience acute motion sickness when trying to play FPS, any FPS. This phenomenon is well-documented and has lead to the entire FPS genre from Doom on being massively unpopular in Japan. Another one where I can dig up quotes if you like.

So why's it shocking that Japanese don't want to play a game that offends and nauseates them? Protectionism plays some role in the XBox's low numbers in Japan, but it's not the dominating reason. I would point at racism and the disproportionate amount of FPS on the system, myself. 360 might've done better if MS partnered with a Japanese company and emphasized the amount of racing titles, but the Japanese public will never play their games-- or Western games, for that matter-- on an American console as long as there's any alternative.

Re:You missed a detail.

[Shadow99_1]

While certain 'western' things may be 'in' for the Japanese people, in certain cases they are indeed very protectionist of their 'local' brands. Heck even the survey says a huge chunk of those people surveyed would buy a Revolution or PS3 because of the brand. I'll agree that either absolute is true, just like you say, but you do need to admit that their is alot of protectionism in Japan.

Vehicles and Electronics are the biggest things that the Japanese feel protective about when it comes to brands. That said their are exceptions, like 'performance cars' which they are more likely to look at Europe for. For electronics though (which is what consoles are), you don't see very much popularity in the Japanese market for western brands at all. Sony does huge bussiness in the electronics field in Japan and US centric brands like RCA or GE are almost non-existant (also the same with europian brands like Uniden). I'd look up the figures to show you in fancy charts and such, but I think you can handle that on your own....

I wonder how they think it looks?

[selsine]

One thing that the article doesn't talk about, and I wish that it did, was what people thought of the new XBox 360 design.

Now I don't like the way that the new Xbox looks (big disappointment for me) but I'm sure that Microsoft wanted to design something pleasing to Japanese eyes given all the flack that they got about the original Xbox. I just wonder if they were successful.

Does any have any info on this?

Re:I wonder how they think it looks?

[Soul-Burn666]

Quoting another poster:

"Even ignoring that, though, I'm not convinced the Xbox 360 has overcome all of the original Xbox's issues. It is still big. It is still not styled the way the Japanese expect a console to be styled. (Painting the thing white does not automatically make it look like a Japanese product.) The PS3 has some issues too, but Sony's brand loyalty can overcome that. MS is not operating from that position of strength there so they really had to nail the design of the system, and they didn't. At least not for Japan, despite all their best efforts (including consulting with a Japanese design studio - who they seem to have totally ignored)."

Re:microsoft knows this

[Flunitrazepam]

" interviews with ballmer have him saying things like "sony will win japan, we plan on winning europe and america" ... "And then we're going to Washington, DC, to take back the White House. YAAARRR!"

Sick of people calling the Rev a poor E3 showing

[PeelBoy]

The Revolution's showing at E3 was no less poor than any of the other consoles.

Seriously. All we have for the 360 and PS3 are bull shit numbers that mean nothing, there are NO real world numbers just hyped up BULL SHIT.

Second the games shown on the systems were fucking pre-rendered crap that wasn't even running on the console. Whoopty fucking doo.

Third people say the Revo was just an empty box. What, you mean the PS3 was a complete and final product? Fuck no not even close and the same thing goes for the 360. Give me a fucking break.

Oh, so we didn't get to see the controller. Who cares, the PS3 controller is exactly the same as the PS2 controller except now it's a fucking boomerang and the 360 controller hardly looks any different than the XBox controller.

This doesn't really apply to most people here I guess, but if you read comments at sites like joystiq.com or engadget.com or even the bull shit at IGN you'll see how very extreamly pathetic some of those people are.

Japanese 2005 Sales Roundup

[PeelBoy]

http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=8009

Meanwhile Microsoft continues to lag way behind. Not a single game for the console ranked in the top 100 sales chart for the first half of 2005 - just like 2004. Fable sold the most with 12,090 copies, but this was no where near the 100th place in the chart (Rockman Zero 4 for the GBA, which sold 65,341 copies). Embarrasingly, the best-selling game for the PSOne (a reissue of Valkyrie Profile) still sold double the volume of Fable.

Happily, Nintendo were the top publisher, shipping a total of 3,166,103 games. The company also had the biggest number of games - 17 - in the top 100. Sony Computer Entertainment was in second with around a million less games, followed by Namco in third, while Square Enix and Bandai rounded out the top five publishers

Source

[PeelBoy]

forgot to post the gamespot link which was the source for the story.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/12/news_61288 89.html

Re:Sick of people calling the Rev a poor E3 showin

[Saige]

Second the games shown on the systems were fucking pre-rendered crap that wasn't even running on the console. Whoopty fucking doo.

You mean, other than the 360 games that were running on Alpha dev kits at E3? At least one system was showing actual games...

Re:Sick of people calling the Rev a poor E3 showin

[PeelBoy]

Did you get to play the game? Did ANYBODY get to play the game? Did you even get to see what that "Alpha dev kit" actually was? Do we even know for sure if it was an actual game, running on an actual dev kit for the 360 or are we just taking their word for it?

Re:Sick of people calling the Rev a poor E3 showin

[Saige]

Ummm, people played Perfect Dark Zero on the Alpha dev kits for the whole MTV special (which was pretty bad, the only part I cared about was seeing the girls who run my clan on there). Multiple other people have played actual games on those dev kits.

And I've seen actual games running on an actual 360. No canned stuff. And I've seen both Alpha and Beta dev kits up close. I've watched other stuff running on the hardware too.

I want to know...

[Lemental]

Why the HELL do people think that the Japanese Shit dont stink?

Most good video games were made here first. Remember Atari? Remember Commodore? Some of the most memorable moments in gaming took place on those two systems, yet your collective heads are so far up the Japanese ass that you cant smell the shit they produce. I can think of one innovative title off the top of my head that came from the far eastern shores last year. Katamari...Thats it. The rest was Ratchet and Clank, Sly cooper, and Mario rebranded crap.

Ooh, look, another Resident Evil title...wonder if I kill zombies in THIS ONE TOO! It was eye candy, face it. Paper Mario 2? BWAHAHAHAAH. My kids are still playing a near launch title, Animal crossing. Mario party 6! its innovative! Wait, this one has a Microphone! where are you going?

A camera! lets put a camera so you can see how goofy you look. We sold a total of 10 of those things since they have been out. Another reincarnation of GTA, in which you do the same damn things you did in the other 2, except, in a city so large, you get lost if you leave your neighborhood!

Sure, Big N "Supposedly" brought back the console, but, if for some reaon it didnt sell, and, Atari had competent management, we would all be playing the Atari X system. Im not predicting the fall of Nintendo, Just sick of the MS bias around here. They arent going to take over your living room if you dont want them to.

On a closing note, I like Nintendo. I wish they made more games for me, and had a better controller. Until then, I will let my kids enjoy my Nintendo, and, I will be playing the X-Box.

Re:I want to know...

[rohlfinator]

"Ooh, look, another Resident Evil title...wonder if I kill zombies in THIS ONE TOO! It was eye candy, face it."

Which is why the American press named it the fourth best game in recent years, above such American classics as Half-Life 2 and the Halo series. Because it was eye candy. Right.
And I'm sure the American press was also holding their noses when Paper Mario 2 was consistently rated one of the top RPGs of the year, and when Pikmin 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Zelda: Minish Cap, and Viewtiful Joe all recieved excellent ratings.

Not only that, but three of the titles you mentioned (Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, and GTA) were all made by Western developers. I think you're geography is a little off, unless you consider Europe "the far east".

And no. Atari wouldn't have taken back the market. The public was reluctant to buy the NES because they had been burned so badly by the Western crap that had been shoveled into their Ataris. Nintendo had to market the NES as a toy robot with a game console "peripheral" for American stores to even stock the system. That's how bad Atari screwed things up.

Japanese like their own stuff

[Neo-Rio-101]

When the Xbox first came out in Japan, the Xbox section looked as big as the PS2 section, except that the Xbox section had huge TV screens and stacks of marketing glitz in an attempt to lure gamers cash.

Meanwhile, PS2 section had all the games everyone wanted to play - which I think was a far more effective display.

Nowadays, the Xbox section is barely visible, and the PS2 displays haven't really changed an bit. The old Xbox displays of old were obvious attempts at astroturfing, and nobody fell for it.

The Xbox (apart from all it's other issues) had TONS of crappy US games on it, which all had great graphics, zero gameplay, and themes which nobody in Japan could relate to. Aside from the locally produced Shogi and "Go" Xbox games, there was literally nothing else locally produced... and the PS2 had Shogi and Go as well.

For the Xbox to do well in Japan it has to have local content which isn't found anywhere else. Machines sell on the huge RPG licences (Final Fantaay, Dragon Quest, etc.) and all Xbox had to show for itself was Shogi, Go, and Halo (which was a FPS game which only marginally grabbed Japanese attention).
The Xbox also needs more wacky, offbeat, cute, off-the-wall games.... rather than just yet-another-racing-shooting-sports-game. Maybe Jeff Minter should be doing more on the Xbox than making the psychadelic music visualizer on the hardware.

I think there is a slight bias against Microsoft here as well - thanks to brand recognition and consumer trust of Japanese companies more than foreign ones. Microsoft gets Windows onto Japanese computers by proxy of the Japanese companies here who make the hardware. If the Japanese companies didn't make PC hardware, Microsoft wouldn't even get a shoe in the door. Consumers trust Fujitsu, NEC, Sony, etc. to care for them when Windows goes bad.

Maybe if the Xbox hardware was developed by NEC or something..... or if Microsoft touted their hardware partners some more - such as IBM (IBM has a good rep here for notebooks)

Re:Protectionism? - Hell yes!!!

[kilauea]

So in your limited view there is no racism in Japan?

And the real answer is......

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4671 687.stm