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Spyware Removal: Drop PC in Dumpster

Posted by timothy on from the baby-bathwater-makes-a-fine-soup dept.

morganx writes "The New York Times is reporting that some users prefer throwing out their PCs and buying new ones to actually removing their spyware. Does this mean lots of free hardware for the dumpster-divers among us?"

31 of 705 comments (clear)

  1. Cheaper? by fembots · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder why it is cheaper to buy a new $400 PC than paying top rate of, say $100 per machine, to get someone to insert the recovery CD and get everything back to factory defaults.

    I find people disposing affected PCs highly irresponsible. Would someone think of those homeless children who dumpster-dived and brought home (or somewhere whatever) such PC? It's like throwing out old smoke alarm with perfectly good Uranium bits inside, someone's going to get hurt.

    The friendly article mentioned that "people are increasingly unwilling to take out their 'software tweezers' to clean their machines", maybe it's time for manufacturers to install a HardReset button (like in a PDA) with a 1 GB ReadOnly Flash drive, which resets everything back to factory.

    --
    Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
    1. Re:Cheaper? by Leiterfluid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree, how difficult is it to just do a basic OS install, and build from there. Or, as you suggest, use the recovery media from the manufacturer. I want to know who these morons are that are having their systems infected so quickly, and so often. I have a PC at home that is running Windows XP, that hasn't had a clean rebuild on it since I originally installed Windows 98 on it. I went straight from 98 to XP, and have never had a significant problem with viruses, adware, or anything else of that ilk. If it did happen, I'd be more prone to performing a fresh reinstall rather than throwing it away.

    2. Re:Cheaper? by B'Trey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I see. And throwing out the PC and buying a new one solves this problem exactly how?

      --

      "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

    3. Re:Cheaper? by JanneM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder why it is cheaper to buy a new $400 PC than paying top rate of, say $100 per machine, to get someone to insert the recovery CD and get everything back to factory defaults.

      Rather, it's either pay $100 to get the same two-year old machine back, complete with scuffed exterior, ugly/dirty keyboard, jerky mouse and, lately, a worrying fan noise; or for an additional $300 get a brand-new faster PC with the latest OS, more memory and bigger drive.

      Not a bad deal.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    4. Re:Cheaper? by pete6677 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just wonder when Microsoft, along with some board manufacturers, will get their collective heads out of their collective asses and realize the 1980s are over and people don't use floppys anymore. We could officially consider the floppy disk to be dead and buried if it weren't required for certain system restores. It seems like a relatively easy fix to allow drivers to be loaded from CD or USB drives or something that holds more than a meg of data.

    5. Re:Cheaper? by Golias · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm sure everybody who replied was just trying to be helpful regarding your Windows install, but they managed to prove your point quite well. A typical non-techie hearing all that advice would be utterly lost and baffled.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    6. Re:Cheaper? by inode_buddha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And the *vast majority* of people using PC's will actually do any of the above, if they even RTFM that far. Corporate use is a different ballgame. Yeah, right. Most users I know can't be arsed to read the comic book about how to plug in a monitor. Posters are no good either. It should just "plug into a wall and just work". Well, they wanted to buy a toaster, and so they got sold on toasters. Too bad computers are a bit more complex that toasters, and of course the manufacturers and devels have no interest in changing this. Now, we have landfills full of toasters. Yeah, I'm *pissed* in case you haven't figured it out yet. After all, do you see people expecting to buy and use a car with zero training, no licence or maintenance? Why do they apply a different standard to computers?

      --
      C|N>K
    7. Re:Cheaper? by Jasin+Natael · · Score: 3, Insightful
      What world are you living in? .... Floppies are utterly disposable. Pass them out like candy and don't care if they come back.

      What world are YOU living in? Pass out a URL with a directory- or file-specific password, save yourself the time and expense of creating the floppies, and then nobody throws anything away.

      Jasin Natael
      --
      True science means that when you re-evaluate the evidence, you re-evaluate your faith.
  2. *sigh* I tired.... by tekiegreg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Saw this dupe article in the mysterious future....emailed the on duty editor as fast as I could, and it went anyways well *dons flamesuit* let's get ready to rumble....

    --
    ...in bed
  3. Dupes Overwhelming! by MrMista_B · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Okay, I'm new here, but holy crap, these dupes are almost worse than spam!

    Seriously. Do the admins just not even read /. anymore?

    Heh, guess they're just smarter than the rest of us then. :-)

  4. Re:Aside from the fact that this is a dupe by Mr2001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do you really think the kind of person who (1) lets his PC fill up with spyware, then (2) chooses to spend $500 on a new PC instead of spending a couple hours cleaning it out, is going to want to learn Linux?

    "OMG WTF happened to My Computer? Where's Internet Explorer? Why do I have to have a password?"

    --
    Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
  5. Cheaper?-Service with a smile. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "I wonder why it is cheaper to buy a new $400 PC than paying top rate of, say $100 per machine, to get someone to insert the recovery CD and get everything back to factory defaults."

    Maybe the better question is: Why do service centers charge so much? Seems like there's plenty of blame to go around.

    1. Re:Cheaper?-Service with a smile. by B'Trey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah but if you're willing to throw the computer in the dumpster, then reformatting is an option. The question isn't buying a new computer versus cleaning the spyware, the question is buying a new computer versus formatting-and-reinstalling. I don't see anyway the former should be cheaper.

      --

      "The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.

    2. Re:Cheaper?-Service with a smile. by Golias · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Think about it for a minute. A typical college kid who's working as a techie in a computer store is going to expect about $20/hr for their time. This means the cost to actually employ that kid (after taxes and regulatory requirements) is closer to $35/hr.

      You will never get even close to 1/2 utilization out of your staff of repair kids, you need to collect at least double that from the customers ($70), and then another $20 for the cost of keeping your doors open (and for the store manager to spend at least part of his/her time making sure the techies aren't stealing all the 2 GB Ram sticks or slacking off or whatever.)

      That leaves $80 a day of sweet, sweet profit, all for the joy of dealing with angry assholes who will often take out their frustrations on you. Gosh, I wonder why there aren't more places fighting to get a piece of that action?

      From the users perspective, they could pay $100/hr to lose all their data and end up with the same crappy computer they always had, or for a mere $300 more they could have a shiny new computer with 5 times the CPU power, 4 times the memory, 4 times the hard drive space, a DVD burner, a massively better video card, and a pretty new keyboard. It's not surprising that a lot of people decide that they'd rather spend a little extra than pouring more money into a system which has been giving them fits.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  6. Do the Slashdot editors read? by cytoman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm quite shocked to see so many dupes posted all the time. Do the editors scan the stories being posted, at all? They seem to be so unaware of what is already posted... the worst cases being dupes occuring on the same day (not this story).

    Seriously, I think that given that Slashdot has become so big in terms of users, the editors need to be more serious about making sure dupes don't happen... if the editors are too busy, appoint a dupe editor who will catch the dupes before they are posted. All it requires is for the dupe editor to do a search on Slashdot to see if a story has already been posted...

  7. Re:Dupe Removal by qewl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm completely convinced all the dupes and extended mysterious future posts(Not to mention increase paid subscriptions) are merely to increase page views and therefore site reloads to increase revenue. There's just no way the editors could post so many dupes within hours by mistake.

    --

    (\_/)
    (O.o) This is Bunny. (> <)
  8. Especially since... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ...they buy the junk with their overextended credit cards, which they have no real hope of ever paying off in their lifetimes, so what the hell does it really matter anyway?

  9. Re:Aside from the fact that this is a dupe by einhverfr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have several customers who have migrated to Linux for similar reasons. They are all beginner consumers.

    The problem largely is that tech support people treat consumers as idiots incapabile of learning the system. I usually start by explaining spyware, how it gets on your computer, how to avoid it/prevent it, etc. Then if it continues, I start suggesting Linux. I show them via a demo system how easy it is to use, and they are usually sold on the idea pretty quickly.

    Computers aren't that hard to understand if we dispense with the tech talk and actually focus on communicating with the consumers.

    --

    LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
  10. sad... by Danzigism · · Score: 1, Insightful
    the sad thing is, people throw out their computers even if they merely THINK that that they are broken..

    this rich lady I did some computer work for had a p4 2ghz with 512mb of ram the whole nine yards.. She couldn't get connected to the internet.. so she told me to throw it away and build her a new one.. i fixed the problem easily, and had myself a brand new fuckin computer.. matter of fact, i'm using it right now.. people are retarded man.. atleast donate the shit..

    --
    *plays the Apogee theme song music*
  11. Anwser is frustration... by John+Seminal · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I wonder why it is cheaper to buy a new $400 PC than paying top rate of, say $100 per machine, to get someone to insert the recovery CD and get everything back to factory defaults.

    I would guess most people don't see an OS, they see a computer. When they get pissed at the OS, they are really pissed at the computer. So they throw it away. In their thinking, the Compaq running Windows XP is very different from the Dell running Windows XP. After all, the computer boxes look different.

    Maybe people think of their computer like a VCR. If it stops working, you don't get the $2 cleaning fluid tape, you throw it away and buy another.

    It is too bad these people don't donate their old computers.

    I am a person who believes it is a SCAM when colleges buy bran spanking new computers every 2 years, and use property tax to do it. Whenever I have walked around a computer lab, all I see is Word and papers being written, IE and the web being surfed, and the very occasional comp sci student writing code. All this could be done on PIII's. Hell, PII's would work, although it would take a few minutes to load software.

    There is a saying in the advertising world. Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle. It is a shame, because often people buy hardware they will never utilize. If someone wants to check email, what good is the newest computer? Salespeople don't sell based on your needs. They want to make the largest commision possible, or push whatever product their managers told them to get out the door. And they lie to do it. I was at Best Buy, just walking around. Most of the time, the salespeople in the Computer section are so busy that it is impossible to get one (good thing in my opinion). But this time one saw me, and came up. He said "What computer do you have?". I lied, I did not want a hard sell, I just wanted to browse, so I said I had a P4 2.0ghz with XP. The sales guy said "Oh, I guess that is okay, but if you want the latest security, and more speed, our P4's have XP with the latest security updates, and they will run the latest games better".

    The SOB tried to sneak in a "latest secuirty updates" in the middle of his sales pitch, to put a seed of fear in my mind about my current OS. Gee... thanks for saying anyone can download the latest patches. Gee... thanks for trying to sell me an e-machines.

    The friendly article mentioned that "people are increasingly unwilling to take out their 'software tweezers' to clean their machines", maybe it's time for manufacturers to install a HardReset button (like in a PDA) with a 1 GB ReadOnly Flash drive, which resets everything back to factory.

    Oh God NOOO!!!! Please, no! These assholes who sell computers are already sending CD's with images only. I have a laptop which the recovery CD's are not the OS which I can configure, but an Image of the hard drive, which sets up the partitions the way Microsoft wants. I can't install the OS with a partition left over for Linux.

    Give us the freaking OS we paid for. If I buy a computer, and the OS is forced on my, that I must buy it if I want the PC, then at least give me the OS on a CD and not an image.

    --

    Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."

    1. Re:Anwser is frustration... by AtariDatacenter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bingo! The people I've fixed their spyware problems for (all relatives, all for free) basically thought that they had a slow computer. They had no idea it was adware/spyware/malware causing the problem, no idea how to get rid of it. It was just that the computer was slow and it was time to buy a new faster one.

      The only time someone came close was when they noticed their Internet connection had a lot of pop-up ads. (And even then, they'd click on the "pop up ads" to close them, when in fact, they were image advertisements on the middle of a webpage, which when they clicked on it, would open up an ad. So then they complain that they close one ad and another comes right back up.)

      The worst Spyware that I saw was one that stuck itself into IE, I think it was eGames? Whatever the name, it would load all sorts of other spyware packages onto the computer. Malware loading malware!

      Truly. The whole thing is OUT OF CONTROL.

    2. Re:Anwser is frustration... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Why aren't students being utilized in the repair and maintenance process? It seems to me that if a school offers a degree in computer science a sysadmin lab semester spent repairing, reconfiguring and upgrading equipment would offer "real world" experience. At the very least it would teach them not to apply for sysadmin jobs;)

    3. Re:Anwser is frustration... by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
      As far as the best buy thing: stupid people deserve to get ripped off. If you don't know anything about computers, you probably shouldn't be buying one.

      Man, I was right with you up until this dumbass statement.

      You are conflating stupidity and ignorance. People who are simply ignorant do not inherently deserve to be ripped off. The (original) point of the sales person is to educate a customer on the best choice for their needs.

      You probably well know that keeping up with the latest email virus symptoms requires pretty much daily monitoring of IT news. Why the fuck should Joe Average have to track something that specific just to know that he can in fact download the security patch?

      --
      If Jesus wants me it knows where to find me.
    4. Re:Anwser is frustration... by stuartkahler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      SCAM when colleges buy bran spanking new computers every 2 years
      A big reason colleges buy new computers instead of using acceptable donated machines is that having donated machines means they're all different. A lab full of random PCs is much more difficult to maintain. With identical models, if a machine dies, you can use 90% of what's left over for replacement parts. You have guaranteed compatibility and the drivers are already installed and updated to your normal standards.

      My uncle works for a tech firms that actually needs top end machines, and anytime that they actually need to do an upgrade, they just go ahead and order a dozen identical machines and upgrade a bunch of people who aren't really ready yet. They save a lot of time and money by not having to maintain a different model for each person. Just think of how much easier it is to have a mobo die and just swap the hard drive into broken down system that had the hard drive fail. As long as it's not an OS issue, or the HD doesn't fail, you can literally have a system (especially a laptop) back up and running in less than an hour. If it is an OS issue, you can essentially swap out the entire machine at once and rule out hardware failure in less than half an hour. The only downside is if the model has a common failure point, you'll be intimately familiar with it. It gives you leverage against the maker, though, to make sure they fix it in every machine. You also know what to look for before the machine actually fails.

      When he buys laptops, he gets ones with quick swappable hard drives. He can tell you in five minutes if the problem is hardware or software. If it's hardware, he's already back up and running and the old unit is getting packed up and sent back to the manufacturer. If it's software, it's his problem anyway.

  12. Excess. by deemaunik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm assuming this is mainly geared towards Americans, considering it's printed in the NYTimes. But, think about the mindset for a minute. Americans are the individuals who are famous for the Biggest Trucks, Supersized Meals, Huge Homes, etc. Americans are known for their lifestyles of excess, to put it short. And before you ask, yes, I'm an American. I think this is simply people looking for an excuse to buy the new "Top of the line" systems. People will use Anything as an excuse to go buy something, when it comes down to it. Otherwise, organizations like The Home Shopping Network would never profit. "I already have three brooms, but that one has nifty rubber bristles that pick up hair!" and the like. So, if you want to get all Psychological on the situation, we're creatures of waste. =) Hell, if I had the money to do it, I'd donate the waxed PC and set the HDD on fire, then buy a completely new one too.

  13. Re:It is not just "people" by antrik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." -- Edsger Dijkstra

    --
    All my comments get moderated +-0, spotless.
  14. Re:It is not just "people" by frenchs · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I can't think of a better way to say it, so I'll just quote Edsger.
    "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes."

    E W Dijkstra
  15. Re:Dupe Removal by Linus+Torvaalds · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Have you forgotten the age-old maxim? Do not ascribe to greed that which can be readily explained by sheer idiocy.

  16. Re:Fool me once.... by Linus+Torvaalds · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It just boggles the mind that people would throw out a Windows machine and then replace it with another! Windows machine which is immediately susceptible and commonly infected within twenty minutes or so of being re-connected to the Internet.

    The smarter move would be to migrate to a system that is less affected by worms/virus/security issues.

    The majority of people have only been exposed to Windows. They think computers simply wear out. They don't see it as getting infected over and over again by dozens of worms, they see it as "oh well, computer's worn out, better replace it".

    In that context, it's perfectly reasonable to go and get something similar to what they already had. They don't think anything happening is wrong. They think this is normal.

    Until something happens to teach the average person that this isn't right and can be avoided by switching to something like Mac OS X, this will carry on happening. I have no idea what that something is. Maybe a virus that forces the person to read an explanation of the issues before it gives access of the computer back or something? I dunno.

  17. Re:W.....T......F... by Rick+Genter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, if they guy makes $1000/hr, then if it takes Mr. Tucker more than 24 minutes to clean his PC, it is cheaper for him to buy a new one.

    Of course, then there's set-up time, application installation...make it two hours....

    --
    Don't underestimate the power of The Source
  18. Re:4 hours?!?!?!?! by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 2, Insightful


    It can take two IF you have EVERY freakin' tool available for deleting files that are heavily protected, hidden, etc. and you nail EVERY freakin' Registry key and hidden DLL on the system.

    Depending on the speed of the client's machine and how much hard disk he has, it can take one to two hours just to run a scan with ONE spyware tool. If you have to run more than one tool (almost always), there's at least another hour.

    THEN you have to find the stuff the tools DIDN'T find (almost always), THEN you have to clean off stuff that you found but which is hidden, protected from everything except System privilege, etc.

    Yes, it can easily take four hours. Which is why I charge $25/hour, not $90 - because most clients can't afford $90 for exactly the reason that it's ridiculous to spend $400 cleaning a $400 machine - or one they got free from a relative.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!