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Spyware Removal: Drop PC in Dumpster
morganx writes "The New York Times is reporting that some users prefer throwing out their PCs and buying new ones to actually removing their spyware. Does this mean lots of free hardware for the dumpster-divers among us?"
I wonder why it is cheaper to buy a new $400 PC than paying top rate of, say $100 per machine, to get someone to insert the recovery CD and get everything back to factory defaults.
I find people disposing affected PCs highly irresponsible. Would someone think of those homeless children who dumpster-dived and brought home (or somewhere whatever) such PC? It's like throwing out old smoke alarm with perfectly good Uranium bits inside, someone's going to get hurt.
The friendly article mentioned that "people are increasingly unwilling to take out their 'software tweezers' to clean their machines", maybe it's time for manufacturers to install a HardReset button (like in a PDA) with a 1 GB ReadOnly Flash drive, which resets everything back to factory.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Drop timothy in the dumpster... along with Zonk, Taco, etc.
It just boggles the mind that people would throw out a Windows machine and then replace it with another! Windows machine which is immediately susceptible and commonly infected within twenty minutes or so of being re-connected to the Internet. This happens often even before you have time to install updates. The old fool me once, fool me twice adage comes to mind.
:-) Interestingly in the linked article, Dr. Wong does replace her HP system with a Powerbook. This has been our experience as well. We have replaced most of our Windows based systems with Macs running OS X leaving our Windows systems headless and sitting behind a Macintosh and a firewall with respect to the Internet. For grad student systems, giving them a Mac is the best possible solution. They can download all the software they want, surf the web and write their email all on the same system they use for their data analysis without worry and I'm not getting calls or visits to my office saying "Ummmmmmm. I think my system is infected" Time devoted to troubleshooting has gone to essentially nothing. Additionally, the last meeting I had down in our computer science department revealed that a good portion of the faculty were also switching from Windows/Linux/SGI to OS X. That was encouraging for a whole lot of reasons.
The smarter move would be to migrate to a system that is less affected by worms/virus/security issues. For the vast majority, I would think that system would be OS X. But hey, that's just me. If your time is that valuable that you would simply replace your system rather than wiping it and reinstalling the OS, you think that you would either be smart enough to think different. Of course clicking on the referenced article makes you sit through an ad for Dell unless you dismiss the ad, so what does that mean?
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Saw this dupe article in the mysterious future....emailed the on duty editor as fast as I could, and it went anyways well *dons flamesuit* let's get ready to rumble....
...in bed
And the dupes they just keep a coming.
I don't see this as viable. Spyware may be somewhat expensive to clean, but so is patching windows and migrating your existing data. I guess if you never use it for anything other than surfing the web.... But then why not just install Linux?
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
you guys posted this topic a day or so ago.
I'm typing this from a dumpster right now. Thank you, spyware.
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/16/180 221&tid=126&tid=172&tid=98
Buy a mac :)
Okay, I'm new here, but holy crap, these dupes are almost worse than spam!
/. anymore?
:-)
Seriously. Do the admins just not even read
Heh, guess they're just smarter than the rest of us then.
DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!0 221&tid=126&tid=172&tid=98
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/16/18
Yeah..a dupe..
By the looks of it, "the doctor who replaced her infected computer", and "says she no longer clicks on pop-ups" did more than replace her comupter. She switched to a Mac (and spent a bit more than $500 for that 51" Powerbook ;-)).
B
dropping PC's but the ball sure gets dropped a lot around here with all the dupe articles. I think I would prefer the NY times, the stories may be made up but at least you don't have to read the same ones monday and then again on friday.
With the price of electronics these days, most people can afford to just throw things away. I fix peoples computers on the side, and I am hearing this more and more everyday. People just don't want to bother with the 'hassle' of fixing things. Plus they get the 'bonus' of having the latest and greatest toys.
Is one of the benefits of being a Slashdot subscriber NOT having to see duplicate stories on the front page?
Sooooo many solutions to this problem.
-Text analysis built into Slashcode to detect potential duplicate stories
-Having another editor spot check a story for dupeness (there are plenty of editors for this to work)
-Have editors read the headline of every story every day.
-Lynch editors who consistently post dupes
no thanks
Before I get slammed...hear me out. I am a Debian user. I love Open Source and Linux. However, my wife didn't catch the Linux bug. However, after bitching up a storm about her Windows XP laptop she agreed to let me get her a MAC iBook. Two months later she's still Spyware and Virus free. My point....Linux isn't for everyone, but there are alternatives (as we all know). I was thrilled to get my wife hooked on her MAC. Now she won't put it down! Did I mention that we still have no Spyware or Viruses? Oh...OK, I did.
I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
There must have been a change in the matrix!
Dream on. If a user is throwing away a whole PC to deal with spyware, you are living in a fantasy land if you think they will make it through any Linux install (let alone using it after completion).
I love how Slashdot editors keep pushing the boundries to bring us new cloning technology.
For instance, not only was this posted two days ago (in the same section!), but this newer version has a shorter into, yet it appears to use the exact same article!
The implications of this new cloning technology cou- what? This isn't a cloned article? It's a duplicate?
What the #)%&#. What the hell are editors for, then?
This /. dupe smells of Wallmart/Dell conspiracy. And the dumpster is on it too!
You can't handle the truth.
So, some friends of mine are going dumpster diving. This is back in the middle of the tech bubble, so fairly cash-rich companies are continually throwing out good equipment as they buy more. Anyway, the experienced one is driving around looking for suitable places, with the newbie riding shotgun. They pull up behind a high end computer service business in a strip mall to check out the goods. The experienced one had told many stories (and provided proof) of incredible finds in places like this, and spurred on by these stories the newbie hops out of the car, runs over, and vaults himself over the lip of the dumpster, feet first inside. What greeted him wasn't the spoils of computer repair, but the spoiled discards of the Chinese restaurant two doors down from the computer business...
In Phoenix, in the Summer...
And there weren't any computer parts discarded that day by that shop anyway...
Boy would that suck...
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
...slightly scary for the uninitiated or those without the right tools. And for some, $199 for a new lawnmower every three years actually feels cheaper than three visits to the small engine repair place, where it always seems to be $89 no matter what they do.
My point is, that's how a lot of people feel about their computers. Except, they don't store their kids' wedding pictures in their lawnmowers, so people are going to have to get used to actually doing something about their problems (or learning about backups, and not getting infected in the first place).
Is this why the "Geek Squad" ads are suddenly appearing to resonate enough to be run non-stop on network broadcasts? If the "Got Junk" people can run an entire business based on hauling that old rusty lawnmower (you know, the one you didn't want to lube yourself) out of your back yard, it seems that the "Got Spyware" people should be able to find the sweet spot, price-wise, in making house calls, solving the problem, and keeping users running. Maybe for the price of a pizza or two.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
first version was from Wall Street Journal [reported], which I read in the print edition I get delivered, now it's a rebroadcast on the New York Times, will you post the BBC News version too?
Seriously though - NEVER TOSS YOUR OLD PC IN THE DUMPSTER!!!!!
It has mercury in it, as well as other hazardous materials, and should be taken to a recycle center or returned to its manufacturer.
In the old days, a friend of mine near Sydney (in Oz) used to strip the gold from the memory boards from big computers and resell it to supplement his university salary. He used some to build giant arrays too.
But the cheapest thing is to switch browsers and turn off permissions.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
"I wonder why it is cheaper to buy a new $400 PC than paying top rate of, say $100 per machine, to get someone to insert the recovery CD and get everything back to factory defaults."
Maybe the better question is: Why do service centers charge so much? Seems like there's plenty of blame to go around.
Like, about 12 minutes short. (Assuming you don't connect to your old data on a network, in which case it's even shorter.)
At that rate, the annual cost is going to get ugly!
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Seems to be a good project for a (G)LUG as an installfest, get the newbies more experience, etc.
Anyone out there doing this??
I'm quite shocked to see so many dupes posted all the time. Do the editors scan the stories being posted, at all? They seem to be so unaware of what is already posted... the worst cases being dupes occuring on the same day (not this story).
Seriously, I think that given that Slashdot has become so big in terms of users, the editors need to be more serious about making sure dupes don't happen... if the editors are too busy, appoint a dupe editor who will catch the dupes before they are posted. All it requires is for the dupe editor to do a search on Slashdot to see if a story has already been posted...
And I emailed the "editor" telling them it was a dupe a good 10 minutes before it went live.
Hello? [thump thump thump] Is this mic on? Come in, Rangoon...
Crow T. Trollbot
Subscribers get the article in advance and are offered a chance to submit any major problems with it before it goes live for non-subscribers. Does anyone submit dupe-ness as a major problem, and if so, is that not a good reason to pull an article?
I remember a while back getting a PC that had no discs - it was all on the local drive.
If you got something like that, you'd be screwed.
It's Americium-241.
For more info on americium, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
Objection, Your Honor! Assumes digital media not in evidence!
Last I heard, MS was prohibiting OEMs from shipping recovery CDs. That hard drive is all you get.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
...they buy the junk with their overextended credit cards, which they have no real hope of ever paying off in their lifetimes, so what the hell does it really matter anyway?
... of dupe articles...
Ordinary people getting frustrated is one thing. They lack the right skills. A PhD in computer science is a whole other question.
..of a guy I was phone supporting whom lived in Queens, New York:
Him: "Ahhh it's hopeless.."
Me: "Nah, let's just try the next solution.."
Him: "Ya know what would fix this up good?"
Me: *chuckle* "What's that?"
Him: "A 2 lb. sledge. I tell ya, 2 lb. sledge fixes EVERYTHING.."
Me: rofl
The accent was priceless.. the word 'sledge' must have been invented in NY..
Some Slashdot editors prefer to look at Slashdot stories from the last 2 days and post the one in the submission been that looks similar to the others.....noone knows why!
Gorkman
All we need now is a Roland article...
Dejavu you say? Agent Smith is coming... run for your lives!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
This really screams for a small Slax or Knoppix distro in write protected flash, which incorporates a hard reset with data retention (i.e. disable all added executables, retain data), coupled with removable hard drives (if the system is too beserk pull hard drive, put in new drive, reboot)
please recycle your spyware.
If it takes 4 hours to totally clean off an severely infested PC, then they might as well get a new PC. If it only takes me two hours, then they're halfway to a new PC. Hmmmm...
Suppose the hard drive fails, and (like a client) they haven't done a backup in a year. Suppose the PC is a 3 year old PIII PC. New hard drive: $60. Time to install Windows ME (or whatever) with all the drivers: at least an hour, but probably two. Cost: around $150 or a little more for a 3 year old PC. (Add more for software installation and network setup, and I do.) Again, that's halfway to a modern PC that is much faster, has a warranty, and has XP preloaded.
Not that I wind up going hungry when the client gets a new PC: there's still networking, data transfer, and software installation and setup that needs to get done. But the cost of new PCs has really changed the cost-benefit of fixing versus replacing.
Of coruse, the best part is when the client says, "Oh, and just take away that old, 'broken' PC. It is of no use to me now." Away it goes with me, because my time is free to me...
And don't forget, my rates are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP compared to visits from The Geek Squad. If a consumer has to go through them, then the math in favor of a new PC gets even stronger...
I can't say I'm wild about this situation, but at least you can see why we're here at it.
IIRC, this was posted just yesterday (not gonna check, though).
Have you used a LiveCD recently?
Without any user intervention whatsoever, up comes a full usable desktop environment complete with browser, which is the only application many users even need.
Installation to the HD can be as simple as putting an image of the CD onto the HD. Helps make things load faster, and you get to do things like save bookmarks, etc.
And if ever the installation gets foobared, the user has the piece of mind of knowing that all she/he has to do is boot from the CD again, and start the process all over again.
throw out /. servers and buy new ones. ;D
this rich lady I did some computer work for had a p4 2ghz with 512mb of ram the whole nine yards.. She couldn't get connected to the internet.. so she told me to throw it away and build her a new one.. i fixed the problem easily, and had myself a brand new fuckin computer.. matter of fact, i'm using it right now.. people are retarded man.. atleast donate the shit..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
Time to install Windows ME You install Windows ME, and you call yourself a computer repairmen?! [spits] Away with you!
I would guess most people don't see an OS, they see a computer. When they get pissed at the OS, they are really pissed at the computer. So they throw it away. In their thinking, the Compaq running Windows XP is very different from the Dell running Windows XP. After all, the computer boxes look different.
Maybe people think of their computer like a VCR. If it stops working, you don't get the $2 cleaning fluid tape, you throw it away and buy another.
It is too bad these people don't donate their old computers.
I am a person who believes it is a SCAM when colleges buy bran spanking new computers every 2 years, and use property tax to do it. Whenever I have walked around a computer lab, all I see is Word and papers being written, IE and the web being surfed, and the very occasional comp sci student writing code. All this could be done on PIII's. Hell, PII's would work, although it would take a few minutes to load software.
There is a saying in the advertising world. Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle. It is a shame, because often people buy hardware they will never utilize. If someone wants to check email, what good is the newest computer? Salespeople don't sell based on your needs. They want to make the largest commision possible, or push whatever product their managers told them to get out the door. And they lie to do it. I was at Best Buy, just walking around. Most of the time, the salespeople in the Computer section are so busy that it is impossible to get one (good thing in my opinion). But this time one saw me, and came up. He said "What computer do you have?". I lied, I did not want a hard sell, I just wanted to browse, so I said I had a P4 2.0ghz with XP. The sales guy said "Oh, I guess that is okay, but if you want the latest security, and more speed, our P4's have XP with the latest security updates, and they will run the latest games better".
The SOB tried to sneak in a "latest secuirty updates" in the middle of his sales pitch, to put a seed of fear in my mind about my current OS. Gee... thanks for saying anyone can download the latest patches. Gee... thanks for trying to sell me an e-machines.
The friendly article mentioned that "people are increasingly unwilling to take out their 'software tweezers' to clean their machines", maybe it's time for manufacturers to install a HardReset button (like in a PDA) with a 1 GB ReadOnly Flash drive, which resets everything back to factory.
Oh God NOOO!!!! Please, no! These assholes who sell computers are already sending CD's with images only. I have a laptop which the recovery CD's are not the OS which I can configure, but an Image of the hard drive, which sets up the partitions the way Microsoft wants. I can't install the OS with a partition left over for Linux.
Give us the freaking OS we paid for. If I buy a computer, and the OS is forced on my, that I must buy it if I want the PC, then at least give me the OS on a CD and not an image.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
You want people to return their PCs to factory defaults so that their PCs just get infected again while you takes hours to download all your Windows security patches? Not bloody likely. Are you being serious, or do you work for a spyware company?
It's far simpler to buy a new PC that has a year or two's worth of security patches already in place -- less for you to download. My uncle has already replaced one PC because of spyware. He's on a dial-up connection. He's not going to sit for hours upon hours so his old PC can reinstall security patches.
Yeah, she must have spent a few grand on the crane alone ;)
I just found a PC sitting with the trash on the side of the road. In it were a perfectly functional amd barton 2500, 40GB hard drive and 128MB pc2100. I didn't find any spyware on the drive, so I think the person threw it out when they couldn't get their new 333MHz FSB cpu to work correctly on their old mobo with 266MHz bus limitation (they might know you can easily underclock it). Either that or the mobo blew up.
I don't care, because I got a free cpu upgrade and hard drive.
IANAL, but I play one on
As soon as someone makes a program that automatically backs up someone's picture collection, and Instant messenger/email settings, that can be dumped into a Linux system that runs their camera and other devices, I'm sure there will be millions of people switching.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
because the geek squad @ Best Buy is charging little old ladies $300 to "fix" thier PC (when it needs rescueing from spyware) and simply add a spyware detector but not actually use it.
"He's a real midnight golfer"
More likely, during the text mode "start a windows xp install" screens, it doesn't even have USB support loaded.
Probably the only real fix for this person's problem is to figure out if the SATA drivers can be slipstreamed onto the windows xp sp2 disc (along with all the other fixes since then, since God knows it's going to need them).
This is retarded. The only legit part of the reasoning in this article is in the last line, which basically infers that the hardware was too slow anyway, so it was an awful lot more work to reinstall everything than it would be to buy a whole new system. I understand that -- I won't touch really old hardware for that very reason. Other than that, the claims the article makes that it might be a good idea to throw out your hw are ludicrous.
Does anyone want to pool together funds to put in a full-page ad in the NYT quoting this article, and showing people that there is another way other than trashing their hardware?
People just need to know how to get their current data off their computer onto CD-R, and to download a Fedora/Ubuntu/SuSE CD, and install from there.
There could be a link on the NYT ad to a site where they can download live CDs to see for themselves how user-friendly Linux is for what most people use a computer for (WP, browsing, playing music etc.).
I just spent 7 hours restoring a user's computer that was so trashed from viruses and spyware that it wouldn't even boot into safe mode. I think that viruses/malware will be Windows' "straw on the camel's back".
Well, if the Ed's can dupe stories, we can dupe dupe comments too.
boakes.org
As a memeber of the Geek Squad, I must say you make some interesting points. Mostof our business is removing spyware and viruses from machines, which, most of the time, is pretty easy. It does take us a long time though (running a lot of scans, and testing the PC to make sure it's ok). Generally, at our Best Buy store anyway, you can expect to pay $59 for a diagnostic (which basically includes runing memtest86, some DFT, Lucifer, making sure your optical drives operate, and scanning for spyware and viruses), plus $79 for "OS service" (spyware & virus removal, a repair install if necessary + removal). Not really that bad of a deal for the average user really, who really wants his or her machine back, "exactly" how it was "before". We try to tack on NAV2005 or NIS2005 ($49.99 + $10 install/update, $59.99 + $10 install/update, respectively) and Webroot SpySweeper ($29.99 + $10 install + update). As absurd as it sounds, a lot of customers believe they can not install software, and trust us to do so. The prices for in-home worst is a bit higher of course, but brining your machine to a Best Buy or GS store isn't such a bad idea to most customers. And believe me, I recommend plenty of customers just buy a new machine (cost exceeds value).
We are all Gods unwanted children. Did you ever consider he may hate you too?
1. Give PC to me since I know to format a hard drive properly.
2. I format the hard drive.
3. I install a user-firendly version of Linux, like SimplyMEPIS.
4. I sell the system on eBay to those who are willing to try Linux.
5. I profit!!!
Well, I like the idea! Is not capitalizing off of people's stupidity and apathy the American way? Hell, it works for Microsoft!
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
How about a multiple-targeted hyperlink for the masses so we can put all the dupes behind one link???
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Apply Occam's Razor.
They're incompetent.
I'm assuming this is mainly geared towards Americans, considering it's printed in the NYTimes. But, think about the mindset for a minute. Americans are the individuals who are famous for the Biggest Trucks, Supersized Meals, Huge Homes, etc. Americans are known for their lifestyles of excess, to put it short. And before you ask, yes, I'm an American. I think this is simply people looking for an excuse to buy the new "Top of the line" systems. People will use Anything as an excuse to go buy something, when it comes down to it. Otherwise, organizations like The Home Shopping Network would never profit. "I already have three brooms, but that one has nifty rubber bristles that pick up hair!" and the like. So, if you want to get all Psychological on the situation, we're creatures of waste. =) Hell, if I had the money to do it, I'd donate the waxed PC and set the HDD on fire, then buy a completely new one too.
Sometimes they admit that the story was "previously posted on Slashdot". I don't know if this only happens after everyone cries "Dupe!", but it's possible that they're deliberately reposting the article (or posting a different news carrier's story of it) for people who miss the first. Or maybe they just want to piss off the people who complain about dupes, but that's kinda doubtful.
Seeing as that number of dupe-callers is increasing, and the posts are getting modded up to +5 Funny or +5 Informative instead of -1 Redundant or Offtopic like they used to be, I'd say enough Slashdotters with mod points are getting miffed that they might want to get a handle on all the repeats. If they've been deliberately reposting stories with benevolent intentions, they need to come forward and say so.
Seriously I know lots of the technically unsavy who will trade other stuff for a computer. If there is a CD key on the box I have the media and my 10 mins of time to start a wipe and install vs what ever they trade is well worth the time.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Linux? A non-propellerhead or non-rocket scientist using Linux? Now that's funny. 90% of people who have computers have no business being within a mile of one, and you expect them to figure out something even more complicated then Windows, which they don't understand now? HA HA!
How ya like dat?
"You'll pay for what you don't know."
I get "broken" computers from people all the time. At first I had to get them from the side of the road with the other garbage, but now whenever someone I know is tossing some hardware they give it to me instead.
"All it takes to fly is to hurl yourself at the ground... and miss." - Douglas Adams
I've been a Windows user since Windows 286 came out, and I've never had a virus. Simple precautions, folks.
Me too. Never even +++FRE3 V14GRA!!!+++ had +++B1G CA$H L0AN$$$+++ any spyware +++L00k! pR0N 4 LE$$+++ either.
Some people also prefer not reading DUPES on slashdot. In fact, I'm one of them.
and then the neighborhood script kiddie decides to sell your private information you had on the hard disk, who should you blame?
Well?
Me, I blame clueless newbs who shred their bill and paystubs but dump their PC with all their credit card info on it, as well as all those nice resume's.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Imagine a beowulf cluster of th - no, you better not.
User ID and Password at bugmenot.com
I kid, I kid! Fine, mod me down.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
I have had to set up several new Dell's from scratch that lack a floppy drive, yet use SATA harddrive's. I have found that the easiest way is just to find the sata drivers and slipstream them into a SP2 installation disc.
Instructions can be found all over google, and it typically takes less than an hour or so to make a good slipstream that you can use on most every computers' installation.
Some links i had bookmarked: Here and here.
People that do this kind of thing are the same people that never defrag their hard drive or scan it for errors. It gets slow and infected with viruses and spyware and they say,"Fuck Bill Gates!". They then proceed to buy another computer with WINDOWS on it and it happens all over again. People never cease to amaze me. And this is a prime example why computer techs have good job security.
What I don't understand is, if people don't want the computer, why don't they take it to a pawn shop? They could at least get a little (and I do mean a little) cash from it.
It's a dupe but I'm still wondering how that guy got his Ph.D in computer science when he can't even get his computer spyware free? My teenage sister owns a PC, I installed a few tools to protect her and she has never been infected with spyware.
My first PC was a 386 and I have never had a virus, trojan or whatever. OK I'll admit I once had some spyware problems but that was caused by my little sister who used my PC when I was away for a few days.. It only took me a few minutes to clean the crap.
Its not because people want to pay for a new PC. People will get spyware and not understanding how a computer works, they will think its broken. Unless they have kind geek friend to help them out they are pretty much screwed. ( ever tried calling in your computer manufacturer about spyware? )
I know alot of people who will just throw it away, and be done with computers altogether (which may be why home PC business is doing so bad.
I think that might be the editors' intention- to let people that missed an article the first time around have a shot at reading and commenting on it. Now, perhaps if they would post and LET PEOPLE KNOW that that was their intention, repeat articles wouldn't get flooded by 100 "It's a dupe" posts.
Slashdot public opinion seems to be moving a bit in favor of the "It's a dupe!" crowd...Not that they're the majority, but where I saw -1 Redundant on all of the "dupe" posts a few months back, I'm seeing not only positive, but +4 and +5 moderations. If the editors are posting repeats with a plan in mind, they should say something, because it's obvious that a lot of people are regarding it as a problem.
My experience is that people won't switch because even though they're pretty hopeless with Windows, they feel like they've invested enough time to learn *something*.
So when you suggest OS X or (foolishly) Linux, their thought isn't "Oh good, no more spyware" its more like "Oh no, I can barely work this computer and I've been using it for 5 years. If I go with the Mac, I don't know it, all my friends tells me there's no software... I'd rather live with spyware"
I'm telling you, this is precisely what is going through most of the population's mind.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
two days ago http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/16/180 221&tid=126&tid=172&tid=98
Slashdot is really going down the tubes.
HTH,
Flower
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
All these spyware machines are running windows. Who would want those even if they were free.
Exactly. The act of installing Windows on the HD converts the computer from an asset into a liability.
Check out NLite to slipstream service packs, hotfixes, answer files, and drivers. It works really well for all my custom windows disks. Get it here: http://www.nliteos.com/
You must be new around here. We hit self-referential heights with the infamous "Weclome to the Hellmouth" articles by Jon Katz. That's before he fell in love with an Australian dog or something. There were many articles and posts and they all started mostly refering to themselves, except for when Jon posted more pseudo-relevant spewage.
josh
gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
It seems to me that a large part of the money Microsoft gets comes from exploiting the ignorance of computer users.
I can definitely see where you're coming. I work for a small IT company here, and we charge $90/hour for work. Luckily we have mostly small business clients, so they A) Don't get infected as badly as home users and B) Can't afford to lose all their data on the machines. So, they end up paying for us to fix them. However, we also make it a point to try and teach them what caused the issues, and how to try and prevent it later.
Just last week I set up a new laptop for a home office. I had to move the data from the desktop to the new laptop and then do all of our typical standardizations (clean up XP). Not two days later was he infected with spyware. So, I came out again and did a full removal on the machine. Then spent some time with him. He's now a Firefox convert, as I taught him how to use that (and put in some nice extensions. He loves AdBlock and ForecastFox). He was also shown how to use SpyBot, Microsoft Antispyware, and a few other programs to at least check his PC periodically. A lot of times you can catch the problem early before the machine is totally buried. Doing so makes cleanup much easier and cost efficient.
As has been said so often here, the real problem is educating the end user. We'll keep trying to do our small part.
Try actually thinking for yourself. It's quite refreshing.
yeah. Many people, if they got a computer with ubuntu on it, would get it very quickly. For the average old lady, linux (if it came preconfigured for e-mail and websurfing using whatever) would be a perfectly viable solution, if it had the right software, most of which is included in ubuntu.
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
Seriously though - This situation is ridiculous. He has a PhD in computer science. Surely, he's figured out how to use the cup holder on his machine. And if not, he's a "Internet industry executive". Can't he bribe one of his tech support guys to fix it for him and keep his mouth shut about the pr0n stash that he has on there? Does he know any 12 year olds that could instruct him on the proper use of a Windows CD? Or is he just _that_ wasteful?
Hell yeah, I'm going to go dive me a new computer now. People are such suckers.
case in point:
I have an not-terribly-old Compaq 1710 laptop with Windows ME (I know that is worst case). It takes 2 full CDs worth of Compaq patches after the recovery disk to get this piece of crap to even function reliably. Then 5 or 6 more CDs worth of drivers and apps.
Needless to say, we just use the machine for web surfing and streaming media. The current recovery plan is to install Linux. As far as I know, the only thing we will miss by doing that will be the Winmodem, and some distros may even have Winmodem supprot for it by now.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
"Mr. Tucker, an Internet industry executive who holds a Ph.D. in computer science, decided that rather than take the time to remove the offending software, he would spend $400 on a new machine."
how in the hell could it possible be either cheaper or quicker to pitch a comp and march off and buy another one, some of the people could just claim comp ignorance. but a guy with a ph.d in comp-sci not being able to work out what a restore disk is for...come on... how hard is it really to restore a mass market co. comp these days..not very hard. most of the comps cited in the article where pretty old, and new comp or rebuild you would still ahve to burn off all your pics and misc personal items you wanted to keep. and restoring a comp is alot quicker than shopping for one and getting it. this just sounds iresponsible to me. whats next my car has a flat so i better pitch it
"tell the ones that come after me that 5 is to much"
Well, I suppose someone who can afford to use a new PC every 12 minutes, would not want to waste time removing spyware, but he can probably afford to hire someone to install proper protection on the damn thing...
Oh well, what the hell...
... is the executive of salesforce.com, a customer relations management company. Anyone can reasonably see that this is rather a "press release" article on the news, shouting "it's time to buy new computers!"
Except their argument don't hold water. They even said that getting a new computer isn't all buds and roses, since you could get infection soon if your computer is left unprotected. They still got away because people, even the editors of nytimes.com, only read the title of that article.
I once had a signature.
...one works for a dot com, and the other is a computer science teacher? They both (presumably) lack the knowledge to reformat? They should be fired from their posts instantly!
This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
Client gets what client pays for. I do not support piracy, especially when posting about it in public.
(Spits right back at you...)
Of course now I'm gonna sound like an evangelist but... you coulda sold him a Mac. No training and no return visit.
The postings okayed by the so-called editors would be scrutized by this dupe-chker-editor and then posted to slashdot. Candidates with previous experience at Slashdot NEED NOT apply.
-Slashdot editorial
Heh, I'm sure you were just being funny. But on a serious note, if all the customer has are the OEM disks, then that's what must be used. I know ME sucks total ass, but I would never pirate XP (or any other piece of software) to a customer. Unless they are willing to pay for an upgraded OS...the software they have is all that gets upgraded.
Life is not for the lazy.
bringing up hanlons razor in regards to posting duplicate stories...
somehow everyone instinctively knows it couldn't possibly be in error...
i wonder where those buggers went...
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
Some computers need ME due to applications and/or device drivers that only run under 9X/ME. I used to have one. The manufacturer refused to release any softwafe updates that would allow it to work properly with Windows 2000 or Windows XP. They suggested that I buy a new computer.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Next time you have to deal with this feel free to point them at:
Microsoft Windows Security Anti Spyware Quick Reference Card
Click here for the printable version.
The best place to find free hardware is dumpsters outside of Girls' College Dorms. Of course that's also the worst place possible to be seen, so it's better to try someone else's Girls' College Dorm. It's like a technology treasure stash. I have several friends that have gotten brand new laptops, perfectly functioning CPUs and a wealth of high value electronics.
Disclaimer: I am a 20-year Mac user/owner. It is my platform of choice.
He probably could not have sold his client a Mac. Many small businesses use specialized software that is developed for Windows only. It sucks, and frankly, having dealt with some of this software, the software often sucks as well, but that's the reality of the situation.
Don't underestimate the power of The Source
Most BIOSes now have the ability to accept USB devices as 'Legacy' keyboard and mouse devices. IE, my Micro$oft Bluetooth Wireless Keyboard and Mouse work perfectly in BIOS/Setup/etc -- Even though they connect through Bluetooth to the USB Bluetooth Dongle. All you need is to enable that support. Should work fine. Even on a Hell^H^H^H^HDell
To the darkened skies once more, and ever onward.
Maybe those customized T-shirts can ask that question...
"Know how to de-dupe your CMS? Get MySQL?"
(C) 2005-07-18-17:26 Copyright David Syes
Abuse this and MAKE ME RICH! I Really, really need some money... BIG money. Legally obtainable...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
"While no figures are available on the ranks of those jettisoning their PC's" What this means is that they talked to a couple of their friends who threw out their machines and decided to generalize a trend from it.
That's gotta fit into your schema somewhere
donn't whirry...
Bzzzt!!!! Worng anser
I cents Conf-ooy-zhun. They need better see-ehm-ess sseestyum, aye?
Maybe they are bots... or overwerked federal analysts (the kind with no public agency names?)
You're right. I doubt he would have gone for it though. For some people, Macs just aren't the right option. Personally, I won't ever go back to Macs. I do fine on Windows and Linux. My Windows box never gets hit with garbage, it's fast, and it runs everything. Same situation for this guy. He got a sweet new laptop, he's keen on taking care of it, it's fast, and it runs everything. He also doesn't seem like the person to like the UI of the Mac (just my opinion). For some people Macs are a fantastic alternative, for others they're not, for whatever the reasons may be.
This past visit to the guy's house was the first in three years. He listens and learns well when we go over things with him. I doubt we'll have many problems in the near future. His new laptop should treat him pretty good.
Try actually thinking for yourself. It's quite refreshing.
Do what any responsible person would do. Zero the hard drive ELEVEN TIMES. That's what me and my friends do.
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
yet another dupe... :D
Next why don't we ask Pepsi how tasty soft drinks are.
Question everything
Maybe it works better. I tried XP on my 1400MHz Athlon, 512MB DDR ram; 64MB videocard, yadda, yadda... XP failed after about 5 weeks. It never lasted even a month after that. Eventually gave up on XP & went back to ME-no problems. Eventually I shitcanned Win-blows altogether in favor of Linux and/or FreeBSD and gave the XP "upgrade" [puke!] disc to a friend-at least he used to be a friend, maybe not now. XP? Worst $99 I ever spent.
If you want your life to be different, live it differently.
It's *hard* to read stuff like this!
While ppl on under development countries work their asses off as volunteers to help poor kids to have a computer usage knowledgment rich ppl throw out their PCs.
I've set a fundable.org account to try raising funds for *ONE* barebones computer for the public school I work in... if *ONLY* those richies could send us their 'garbage' our work would help many more children!
Anyways, maybe YOU can help. More then 300 children will be very very thankful!
Because sitting around whinging and moaning about about /. M1 while madly refreshing and searching for keywords in your dupe database so you can be the first to bring it to attention is somehow much more fulfilling than reading slashdot topics.
Great, not only can I be subjected still to dupes, I can access a database maintained by someone so obsessed with something that pisses them off so much, it's all they spend their time doing, and verify the article is in fact, a dupe. And find out the CID, date, editor(sic) etc! And then discuss it!
Marvellous idea! How you guys haven't brought slashdot to its very knees already amazes me.
I just finished testing some old P2, 5 of them, and we are donating them to 5 different associations for helping people wih dissabilities. Right now they dont have a single computer, and they need one. THIS is an option not making more garbage. And this donation was done by a SPORTSBOOK (for you that think this business should be shut)
Check out Website development, maintenance and accesibility cons
I wonder why no one is telling these dumbfucks they can just type format c: and throw out the files instead of the hardware
Is anyone else mortified at the thought of the environmental cost of all of this hardware going into landfills? This is just appalling.
You install what the customer is comfortable with.
Not what your idea of a good OS is.
Business doesn't always mean converting everyone over to your religion just because you think it's better.
Karnal
I know what you mean. I work in the field, too.
But what most people don't realize is how much work they'll have if they get a new PC.
Consider all the things that you've accumulated on your system and how much you've tweaked it -- settings, bookmarks, documents, serial keys, music, etc. You've had it for at least a year. And in all that time, you've done a lot with their PC. Do they know how to get all those settings and data to the new PC?
Secondly, what about software? Most customers lose their original discs. Some systems don't even come with discs. Are they going to re-purchase everything? It's illegal to install an OEM Office onto a new PC. Will they buy a new Office? (No, they probably won't, but it's something you SHOULD bring up.)
Third, there's hardware changes. What have they added? They will have to move that to the new PC, if it will work! (If the new system, for instance, had 768MB RAM and the new system uses a different type of RAM.)
Fourth, what are they really getting with that system? There's a chance that the $199.99 powerhouse is anything but and may actually be SLOWER than what they have now!
Finally, there's preventing this from happening again. Do they know how?
They usually realize at this point that they're going to need help anyway. Since they can't perform these tasks, that means they're going to have to hire someone to do it. Suddenly a $199.99 PC is starting to look unrealistic.
Of course, my OPINION is that it's better to repair than replace. I'm sure someone more clever can offer valid contrary arguments. I think replacement-as-policy (and I also put "rebuilds" under this category) is ultimately a longer road. I suggest it only if the new system is going to be much better out of the box.
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
AdBlock rules!
What if we made a site that mirrors /. by way of RSS, and had it automatically remove dupes and/or let people mod articles up/down?
Anybody interested in starting a pool?
I say this story gets duped AGAIN by Friday. Any takers?
Somebody submit this story again - prove me wrong.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Hardware is cheap, but as we all know most of the margin from these sales goes to microsoft. Talk about unfair. The people responsible for the mess get the benefit.
The other thnig that bothers me is this constant reference to Apple's "3 per cent" market share. I swear the *majority* of computer users I see outside corporate settings are on macs; this includes a significant sampiling of 1) open sourcerers 2) cafe denizens 3) academics and 4) self-employed/very small business people. So what gives?
Well, Apples last a long time. Suppose Apples last 3 times as long as PCs. (On the basis of this story, the ratio is probably increasing.) Then the actual market share in computer-months is about 9%, not 3%. Now suppose that Apple people actually LIKE their computers, and spend three times as much time with them. Then the user share is about 27%. About a quarter of the actual minutes people spend with computers would be with Macs. Accounting for hidebound corporations and government agencies this looks more like real life to me.
mt
Seriously, if you can't keep your own computer free of viruses and spyware, you should have your Ph.D in computer science revoked. I have no problem with that sort of stuff at all, and my degree is in physics (bachelors), not cs. If you have too much trouble with this stuff, just follow 3 simple rules.
1) Apply all security patches immediatly upon getting a new computer, preferably from a cd rather than the internet.
2)Only install open source software or software you've purchased from a legit source.
3) Don't use Internet Explorer or Outlook Express, I recommend Firefox and Thunderbird.
what sig?
(Use the Preview Button! Check those URLs! Check those fucking dupes!!! MORONS!!!)
Important Stuff
# Try to put *NEW* stories on the system instead of fucking dupes!!! MORONS!!!
# Read other people's stories before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said!!! MORONS!!!
[Addition of the term "MORONS!!!" is my contribution to good user interface design.]
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Excuse me? "the editor's intention"? if you want to read past /. posts there are three well know perfectly workable solutions: the editors can post a "slashback", you can subscribe to the headlines email and click on what you missed or go to "Old Stories" and search or just reel 'em in....so what dope is in need of a repeat of something that was posted waaaayyyy back on Saturday? YOU may need to explain away slashdot's version of Ground hog day but the rest of us are just not interested in leftovers.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
I run WindowsXP SP2 like anyone else. Sometimes behind hard and soft-based firewalls, sometimes not. My updates are set to auto download every day at 3AM.
It is not the fact I am running SP2. I have been popup and spy/malware free since the days of Windows 2000.
How does any living person with access to a computer keep getting spy/malware? How does a person get a popup window?
That story blows my mind.
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
System Shock 2 from Looking Glass, long since gone out of business, is difficult, at best, to get running under anything but Windows 95/98/ME. Actually I don't think I've ever succeeded in getting it to run on 2000 or XP, and never tried on NT.
Sigs are like bumper stickers.
"A typical college kid who's working as a techie in a computer store is going to expect about $20/hr for their time."
Trust me. They're not going to get it.
The bulk of the cost to have the shop work on your computer generally isn't going towards the help.*
*The exception is the more experienced, and those with specialized knowledge.
I tell my customers after a 15min. glance (free of charge), that they have 2 options:
:)
:)
1) I clean it there (provided they have dsl), and it will take anywhere from 2-6 hours and after that it may still require a 2hr. re-install of the OS.
OR
2) I take it to my shop (where I can work on it and others and play Quake), and charge them a 2hrs. labor flat fee.
Most choose 1, i don't know why I always recommend 2, because, hey, I love my Quake...
When the bill is in the range that they could have gotten a new computer, they realize their mistake. However, I do set them up with a spyware blocker, MS' Official, Firefox for browsing (with a 5 minute WOW tutorial), and recommend them switching to Thunderbird for email, and recommend they purchase Norton for Anti-Virus (or update).
(And yes, for most of them IE is their ISP... not kidding, 'I pay SBC, but Internet Explorer is my ISP...right?').
I do what the customer asks, and when I point out that they are asking for the incorrect thing, they get indignant and demand their ignorance! So I provide them with that for which they ask.
I have also had some who say 'Can't I just get a new computer and give this one to the kids?', why yes... or you could just have me get your data backed up, restore the os, and you can have it all back good as new for 2 hrs. labor... "NO, I want a new one", and so it goes.
I got a free 1ghz. laptop that way, customer got angry said get my data off it and throw it in the trash. Passed my K6-500 compaq Lappy to my son,(Mepis 3.3.1), running good, and I get the new trash
Saving data costs money and most people want that done even though they do not/will not do it before they have problems...
What part of,"An emergency on your part does not constitute one on mine" do you not understand?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
Even home users who back up don't back up all that often. So how much is it worth to you to keep all that data and information you already have? $100? $200? How does that come into play when you are weighing up the cost of replacing or repairing?
What about software installation on the new machine? How many applications need to be loaded? Special templates? Tools, layouts, systems - all take time. To get a PC back to a standard that the client is happy with (as in it has 10 or so applications loaded and configured,) takes much much longer than cleaning out some spyware.
Sell your services to your clients better. You are trying to SAVE them money at $75 an hour. They are MUCH better off with their OLD system well maintained.
After all, when you need an oil change, do you go out and buy a new car? No. Why? Because every car needs an oil change. Just like every computer needs they occasional crap clean out.
1. Swap drive with new one that's only large enough to hold user's current amount of data usage (save user's old drive for formatting and reuse if desired). ...
2. Charge half the cost of a new PC.
3.
4. Profit $$$
Tag lost or not installed.
It can take two IF you have EVERY freakin' tool available for deleting files that are heavily protected, hidden, etc. and you nail EVERY freakin' Registry key and hidden DLL on the system.
Depending on the speed of the client's machine and how much hard disk he has, it can take one to two hours just to run a scan with ONE spyware tool. If you have to run more than one tool (almost always), there's at least another hour.
THEN you have to find the stuff the tools DIDN'T find (almost always), THEN you have to clean off stuff that you found but which is hidden, protected from everything except System privilege, etc.
Yes, it can easily take four hours. Which is why I charge $25/hour, not $90 - because most clients can't afford $90 for exactly the reason that it's ridiculous to spend $400 cleaning a $400 machine - or one they got free from a relative.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
just-in-case-you-didn't-see-it-the-first-time dept.
seriously, dude...
...I got nothing.
why not only replace the hard drive instead of throwing all of the computer? ;-)
This sig doesnt exist.
Time to install Windows ME You install Windows ME, and you call yourself a computer repairmen?! [spits] Away with you!
That's how you get repeat customers, duh.
Go two pages back, it's on the July 16th (Saturday) page. See the old news link at the bottom.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
What amazes me is that somebody with a degree in Computer Science is dumb enough to get spyware and not have backups to ensure that his computer could be functional within two days at most. What also bothered me was that the article gave the impression that spyware "just happens" - by connecting to the Internet, you can get spyware. It should have mentioned how employing a small amount of common sense can keep the computer trouble free.
My main problem with the dupes is that there is so many comments about it being a dupe that the discussion is almost useless, and when I'm scrolling through the front page and see a dupe I quick scrolling down, thinking that I've already caught the rest of the headlines (assuming I don't recognize right off it is a dupe).
Went down to Nevada to go spend 2 weeks with my girlfriends parents because we are in a semi serioius relationship. My girlfriends uncle lives with his mom still, no fucking joke the guy looks like Christopher Walken. He's pretty addicted to porn and spends half his paycheck every week to go get laid at some bunny ranch. Anyways, he comes down stairs one morning all shook up for some reason. I asked him whats wrong, he said that "somehow" he got a popup for child porn ( who in the fuck has child porn popups ) anyways I didnt say anything. He was going on how the FBI would raid his house and asked how he could get rid of it. I really didnt feel like formatting his harddrive so I just said "dont know you can figure something out." He takes the case and monitor outside and proceeds to bash it in with a hammer. I witnessed the funniest thing of stupidity in my life that 2 weeks. The funnier thing was the look on his face and the fact that he bashed that monitor good and 2 took swings at the case....hard drive was still intact :O I stole it after he threw it in the dumpster and formatted it. New 120 gig Maxtor =]
If I had mod points I'd give them all to you. Sarcasm is wasted here.
...sitting around whinging and moaning about about /. ...
1) if you can't spell 'whining' just use 'beaching'. It sounds much better, you phucking prick!
2) if anti-slash can do it, why the phuck can't slashdot editors do it? Its not like they actually write these articles themselves, they just post them (occasionally, several times).
The weak, dumb, and stupid will be weeded out by thruth and logic.. it just takes a while :).
Let them throw their PCs away, geeks will nab them and put them to good use, eventually the geeks will inherit the earth.
given the fact that his porn fits into 640K (ya, I know he did not say that), your idea is just daydreaming.
I'll relate a mildly shameful story:
:)
;) Hopefully they won't track me down now, but it's past the statute of limitations anyways :)
Early in my dotcom career (97) I was still fairly poor and excited about computers. A nearby office had just shut down and they had just thrown a whole pile of PC hardware into a rental dumpster right in front of our office. Me and a buddy went crazy dumpster diving after work -- most of it was old 386's and other stuff we weren't excited about, but there were some good SCSI controllers, network cards, and hard drives. I scooped up several hard drives -- Western Digital, but only a tiny 500MB or so. Most drives at the time were 4GB or so, and even my lousy home PC had a 2GB drive. You couldn't even buy anything smaller than that. Still, free 500MB was cool.
At some point after playing with some of the stuff at home, I found that Western Digial covered all their hard drives for 5 years no matter what, even if you didn't have a receipt. And though this drive was a smaller one, it was actually only a couple years old. So I decided that I'd send it in for a replacement, which would undoubtedly be bigger as well. The only problem was that the drive still worked perfectly.
So I hooked it up to a power supply that was _not_ connected to my computer and let it spin up. Then I dragged a screwdriver across the circuit board and visible sparks leapt out. It caused the power supply to safety shutdown. Then I tried hooking it up to my computer again and the drive still worked! So I went back to making it spark some more until the motor actually stopped spinning.
Successfully destroyed, I packed it up and shipped it off to Western Digital and awaited my replacement. A few weeks later it arrived. And it was another 500GB drive. I couldn't believe they still had a warehouse of them around, just for idiots like me
Anyways, I've since become financially successful enough to buy hard drives normally, and I've bought a ton of Western Digitals (only the Caviar line) to make up for it. Never had one fail, and I know they provide an excellent warranty
Cheers.
It worked fine for me on two 2000 systems. I did have to bind it to a single cpu on a dual-processor machine, or it'd lock up in the first minute or so.
Did you have to do anything exceptional? I could never get past the opening splash screen.
Sigs are like bumper stickers.
Generally I'd agree with this, however I'll go one further and say the best thing a person could do is invest in a custom built system, built to purpose by a skilled tech. Properly designed for safe usage and fast recovery should something go wrong.
But thats just me....
We here in Redmond are becoming concerned at the amount of personal computers (PC's) being found in dumpsters. As you are already aware, recycling is a much more environmentally conscious option than throwing away. We have built a "Recycle Bin" into every version of our Microsoft Windows Operating System since Windows 95. In order to protect the environment, we ask that you refrain from disposing of your computer and instead place the offending "spyware" into our Recycle Bin. That way, the files can reinfect your computer until you download our new Microsoft AntiSpyware product. At that time, all offending files will be permanently disposed of, except for ones created by the Claria Company. Thank you, and happy computing!!!
Throwing out all that hardware is incredibly wasteful. For goodness' sake, folks, just get a Knoppix CD. Boom, no more spyware.
If you absolutely MUST get rid of your hardware, find a recycling center (computers contain lots of things like lead, cadmium, barium and mercury, none of which we need in our landfills) or to a school or donation program.
Anyways, I've since become financially successful enough to buy hard drives normally, and I've bought a ton of Western Digitals (only the Caviar line) to make up for it. Never had one fail, and I know they provide an excellent warranty ;)
Do they still honor such a warranty? I've had two WD's fail (a 40gig with only a couple bad blocks, an 80gig with so many that now it makes funny noises) that I bought within the last five years, with failure coincident with a CRT monitor running sitting next to the computer for a few days (no one ever said don't do that!). This was about a month ago, and they were running perfectly for years up until this. What is dissapointing is you can no longer do a "low level" format to rewrite the sector marks as you could 15+ years ago when drives were under 50 meg (and Spinrite saved the day). WD claims/implies their "write zero" utility does a LLF but it clearly doesn't.
I asked about this (if there was any hope for the drive) on Usenet where I got mixed responses, then on the WDC website's 'moderated' forums and got a seriously patronizing response. I can only wonder if the responder has any official connection to WD, I'd hate to think that if I buy another WD drive I'd be supporting him.
Tag lost or not installed.
....getting it home and hooked back up to the internet they are owned again and back to square one with an infested computah.
Many new machines will see a usb jump drive plugged in at boot time as an atlternative boot device.
What I do for the SATA install of XP is put the drivers on a CD and "load additional drivers" early in the setup process.
hmmm... fat chance... I upgraded my computer mobo and processor and discovered my OEM restore disk wouldn't work with the new hardware... I had to dig around in my spares box for one of my 98SE OEM disks... to get it up... and even that was a tale of woe itself as it point blankedly refused to install as there was already an OS on the disk... I had to use Knoppix to wipe the original windows files before that 98se would install... all this hassle just for a games machine... my other boxes all run Linux...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
your title just reminded me of one of my favorite bushisms:
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
I guess this is why ppl r rebuying windows machines, the dumbing down of america
Would someone think of those homeless children who dumpster-dived and brought home (or somewhere whatever) such PC?
Homeless children bringing it where?
The friendly article mentioned that "people are increasingly unwilling to take out their 'software tweezers' to clean their machines", maybe it's time for manufacturers to install a HardReset button (like in a PDA) with a 1 GB ReadOnly Flash drive, which resets everything back to factory.
Look, I'll be honest. I don't like you. I don't like your post. I think it would be best if you did not return to slashdot.
Some computers need ME due to applications and/or device drivers that only run under 9X/ME
9X/ME != ME. You still have the choice of running 98. It would be pretty unusual software to work on ME but not on 98.
IMO there is no reason to be running ME ever.
meh
Almost 400 comments so far. So, yes, it was worth it.
:)
Now... if a dupe got NO comments, THEN we'd some real action
I've been able to boot Apple hardware from the CD since 1996 (that is my experience, I am comfortably behind the curve when it comes to hardware). Why has "wintel" been even more behind the curve when it comes to booting from alternate drives? It isn't like it was patented or something. Put the CD in, hold down the C key, and it boots, what a great idea. But if you still find floppies useful, more power to you. Thank you for keeping that old hardware useful.
We are stockpiling old computers with ISA slots so they can use the special interface card that is utilized by 20 year old lab equipment (the Gleeble machine comes to mind, and I'm sure Gleebles are expensive, but the newer ones sure look nice).
Amazingly, no-one seems to have complained yet that this story is a dupe of this one from Sunday.
That must be fairly newsworthy in itself!
I say we take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...
I love this, in a country where people trade out cars every two years, you are actually shocked and amazed that they would throw away their computers?
Come on, a car these days costs tens of thousands of dollars, has a life span of around 20 years, and the technology hasn't substantively changed in 50 years! Yet, every couple to few years, the average American gets a new one. I don't know why, but I suppose it is because a four year-old car is just icky.
Computers on the other hand, are improving about every six months, are completely obsolete every five years, at the outside, and only cost a few hundred dollars. Why wouldn't people throw them away?
Admittedly, I still have just about every computer part I have bought since about '95 sitting in a bin somewhere, but I hardly ever have a use for all those parts. I also have thrown away one entire computer (sans drives) because it just pissed me off that much, and I have to say it was quite satisfying kicking it all the way to the dumpster!
If you are going to address the problem with disposable consumerism, I think there are much more important and meaningful targets than people swapping out their crappy cheap computers for new crappy cheap computers. Hell, what about the millions of people who tossed perfectly good CRT monitors, just because they wanted a flat panel monitor with a lower resolution, and slower refresh rate, just because they thought it was cool that their monitor was only two inches thick?
Why would Intel care what OS you point on your machine?
i of course was speaking about a single known instance.
this specific machine was running win ME and had a 1ghz cpu with 128mb and 16 meg video. so with all the adware there was no chance in hell it would boot in 5 minutes.
this "5 minute fix" B.S. further enforces the impetus to dispose of an older computer.
I say it's B.S. because the more training one has in fixing computers (and the newer the machine) the more likely it can be fixed quickly. so the speed in fixing should be worth more. I mean really would you pay more to fix an old gremlin waiting a week to get the part or to fix a corvette whose parts are more likely to be in stock?
Last christmas I upgraded a win95 machine to win98 for someone for $50. the hard drive was so slow that it took hours to restore thier data (10 gigs of MP3s) to thier disk. I won't be doing that again.
300 is only worth it if your computer is fixed AND you get to keep your data.
so to summarize 5 minutes and free is B.S.
"He's a real midnight golfer"
That's assuming it takes zero time for the (l)user to select, order, and then take delivery of, unpack, plug in and connect, then turn on, the PC; then click through all the EULAs, then set up his network, reinstall his apps....
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_J._Hanlon
Noone caught that this is a duplicate? http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/16/180 221&tid=126&tid=172&tid=98/
I stand corrected....
my boss just called me in to fix a usb drive that had been "malfunctioning" since last night. I plugged the powersupply in and "wah lah" I danced around him while he flipped me off.
re: no licensing for PCs, "no one" (statistically compared to cars) dies from computer missuse. but I would agree that shouldn't preclude ppl learning about what they use. I mean it's 2000 freakiing 5 and ppl i work with who have been using PCs for 12 years barely know what drag and drop mean!
"He's a real midnight golfer"
a person with a Ph.D. in CompSci can't recover from a malware infestation.
As someone in school going for a compsci degree, I'd like to know which school he attended, that I may switch if it's mine.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Hello, CNN.
/. story is a dupe.
And yes, this
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
an OS installer (Program) should be able to figure out disk paths a little better.
I am currently running a RAID 0 array on the mobo's IDE controller. 4 ata 133 disks (Sisandra says it's %14 faster than a 2 disk sata150 striped raid and it's cheaper). To get this to happen I have XP installed on a hd on a PCI IDE controller because tho i could boot from a CD on said controller the windows installer program couldn't find the cd it was booting from. So I installed from the cd on the mobos controller to the hd on the pci controller then moved the optical drives to the slave channel on the PCI controller and setup the RAID on the mobo. leaving me slightly unhappy because I was looking froward to booting from the RAID.
"He's a real midnight golfer"
After all, do you see people expecting to buy and use a car with zero training, no licence or maintenance? Why do they apply a different standard to computers?
Especially since my computer was about twice as expensive as my first car.
--- What
Right before I went to college (Fall of 2000), I bought an HP Pavillion something-or-other, set it up to dual-boot Linux 2.2.something-or-other, and took it to school. It took me under three days to bork up the Win98SE installation to the point that reformatting/reinstalling was easier. So I reformatted the Windows drive, popped in the HP Recovery Disc, restarted, and...Oops, Sorry! You needed to have Windows already installed for their recovery cd to work, essentially meaning that the recovery cd was no more than an installer for all the bloatware that the OEM thinks you might be really interested in having on your computer. What kind of recovery is that?
I'm still pretty pissed at HP, whatever their reasoning was. I hadn't any other OEM computer at the time not coming with a Windows install disc. I honestly wouldn't have minded if they sent a recovery disc that was locked to my computer, I just want to know that if I'm paying for an OEM license (even implicitly), I want the ability to reinstall the software on the same computer as many times as I want.
--- What
I believe the article misrepresents the options available to users.
Someone who works in the internet industry and who holds a Ph.D. in computer science thought it "cheaper and faster" to buy another new PC running Windows. A director of a internet-related research group considers this a "rational response." Followed by a list of statistics related to Windows viruses, ad- and mal-ware. Then a professor of computer science at Yale, with another story of another infected Windows machine.
Then a few paragraphs about Microsoft releasing software to combat the problem, noting 800 _million_ uses of the software this year alone, but then not offering any connection to how this affected the personal stories mentioned in the article. Not at all, I would guess, but then this isn't addressed.
Then a story of a woman, a physician, solved her problem by buying a computer that doesn't run Windows. The case selected for this inclusion used nearly the most expensive possible option available, a top-end Macintosh laptop at $3K. The final two stories listed a stockbroker who is at "wits' [sic] end" and considering a new Windows-based PC purchase, and a bank manager who was the only one to clean their own computer of the offending software, albeit via a 15+ hour process of self-education and work.
So what does a reader of this story who doesn't know that much about computers (ie, most users) learn? That very smart, very well-educated people -- even those that are computer professionals, are throwing their old Windows computers out and buying new ones because it's just too complicated or troublesome to fix the old ones. This behavior isn't questioned, but bolstered by the declaration of an important-sounding research group that claims this is a "rational response." And even if you do replace your Windows computer, it'll get infected all over again.
The one person who buys something else other than Windows has to pay $3000 for it. The other person who teaches themselves to remove the infection and hopefully combat it successfully in the future must go through hours of self-teaching and work.
However, the fact that this virus, mal- and ad-ware epidemic only exists on Windows is not discussed. Linux is not discussed. That the woman who bought a $3000 Macintosh could have bought a $500 Macintosh that would have offered her the same safety is not discussed. Hell, even the option of inserting a restore CD and returning the computer back to the way it was delivered to the owner is not discussed.
These are all valid options. I'm not a Ph.D., a physician, or member of a research firm so maybe my opinions don't mean as much. I'm not an employee of a Windows-based PC manufacturer (I will mention though that I the ad that I had to click through to read this article was for Dell). But I use a Macintosh, and have used them exclusively for the past 10+ years, and have never had a single infestation. Ever. So what do I know.
Oh yeah, that I have options. Successful, inexpensive options that were completely overlooked in this article. And after reading the article, if I didn't know any better (and ran Windows), I'd be far more likely to buy a new computer to replace my old infected PC. Maybe even with a new... umm... Dell?
Just recently,
My wife and I were at the local Walmart and lo and behold, right next to the store, (at a donation drop off box) someone had left a pristine computer case complete with mobo, cpu (AMD Duron 1.3G) and cables, there was no RAM H/D or cmos battery (easily fixed with spare parts), I threw a cdrom into it, 256Megs of RAM and it sits in my den as a spare knoppix box.
Why throw out perfectly good hardware, (win32 I guess). I know it was meant as a donation for the poor or whatever but I`m not rich and I couldn`t pass up perfectly good hardware just sitting at the side of the road.
nevdullc
Cthulhu Saves -- in case He's hungry later.
If you have spyware, please drop your pc in my garden, Thanks :)
About throwing out the baby with the bathwater?
Good points. I was wondering myself why these people didn't just reinstall the OS. Doing that and reloading all of the programs shouldn't take more than a few hours. A pain in the neck, yes, but much better than buying a new machine! And yes, a Mac Mini would solve a lot of these people's problems. That's my advice to anyone who complains to me about infected machines. Few listen, but the ones that do are glad they did.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
the problem with american computer users and spyware these days, is that they approach keeping the computer like they do their body. when there is a problem they look for a fix. i bet none of these people buying new machines run adaware everyday. all i'm saying is that american computer users could learn something from chinese medicine. its better to constantly be checking and maintaining the machine than to only see doc when your head hurts. wubbo?
spy b ot search and destroy and lavasoft adaware can remove many smalware programs. Digging into the registry is a bit over many people's heads but the softare programs I mentioned are free and easy to use. But you get what you pay for, they can't remove everything.
http://www.bookforce.net
The problem isn't that they are too lazy to fix it and just buy a new one, it's because they just don't know that the problem is spyware/malware.
Amazingly, no-one seems to have complained yet that this story is a dupe of this one [slashdot.org] from Sunday.
/. at work haven't noticed the original article.
Actually, they have (scroll up), but I'm guessing the key word there is *Sunday* - lots of people who only read
Just installed the game, patched it and ran it.
Trashing your PC doesn't really solve the problem. Using another web browser does. I don't really see many people recommending Opera or Mozilla.
My wife just recently got OUT of the business of cleaning spyware off of people's PCs. She's been doing this for years, but lately the darn buggers are buried so deep nothing really flushes them out short of a reformat.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
I'm not saying it's reasonable of the editors to ignore dupes, or run slashdot to the standard they do, but it's not that I'm complaining about either.
Why can't the slashdot editors find the dupes? Well, why can't anti-slash run real articles? Something interesting? Just because you're able to spot someone/somethings deficiency and write detailed accounts of it doesn't make you the solution.
In fact it puts you of the mindset that you are somehow authoritive, and do things like correct spelling on words you haven't learned yet, and no doubt continually refresh slashdot pages so you can post them on anti-slash.
This article is a fraud, because if people in New York throw $400,= PC's in the dumpster, then this City would be bum free in no time.
Robert
It sounds like the same reason I no longer fix VCR's.
They used to sell for over $500 and people would pay to have a video head replaced and aligned. A new VCR is typicaly less than the replacement part.
The truth shall set you free!
Check out Freecycle.org - Leave your computer at the curb, post a freecycle entry - a needy technophile will find a loving home for it before dawn. Forget the dumpster! Freecycle!
It turns out I actually did misspell the word in the first place, but "whingeing" is in fact in the Collins English Dictionary. Again, meaning "to whinge".
to answer your questions:
The first question was actually rhetorical, but thanks. Anti-slash and their articles: I only piped up because someone linked to them, and was reminded of the first time I'd visited some months ago, expecting something at least vaguely competing with slashdot (I can't remember what the original post said, is was might even have been a troll). I visited again to see if anything had changed, if there was anything interesting. Indeed, it must be for some people given they have posts on their forums, but I couldn't see it being of value to many well-adjusted individuals.
So, I thought I'd vent my spleen on it once and for all in the hope of saving a few folk from hunting through a few tabs looking for something more nourishing than "omfg fscking got modbombed wtf!?!" and plan after plan on 'how to make the moderation system work how I want'.
If you were the slashdot crew, would you fix it? Let's just say, (because I've no idea) that slashdot is cranking the $$$. People complain about dupes, but still the $$$ keep rolling. The things people say about CmdrTaco in their sigs etc. No surprise he doesn't come here. But it cranks in the dollars for him. From what I understand of business, you treat complaints based on how your inaction will affect you in the future. In the dupe case, I'd say very little if nothing.
Sure, slashdot sucks, but I still come here. The town I live in sucks and the council sucks but I still live here (my job is nice, though). Lots of things suck in ways you just have to ignore sometimes. That's why I think that people that spend their time running a hair-splitting, pedantic and generally unconstructive site need to take a look at themselves before they become obsessed with it. Sure, complain to timothy, or taco or whatever, you're right to, but leave it at that.
re your disclaimer: if antislash didn't have to do what they do, I'm sure they'd find something else. What they need a wee reassessment of their priorities. It's not like slashdot's faults aren't blaringly obvious enough. Isn't it ironic that, on an articles second running, there might be 40 posts all saying "dupe!". Someone spots a dupe, but for some reason they think they'll be the only person to notice, so they must report it. And set up a domain.
I was actually hoping you were associated with them, I was looking forward to hearing what one might say.
Sorry, I did a search for "dupe" and at the time nothing came up...
I say we take off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/19/opinion/l19compu ters.html
I've noticed even the most savvy ppl i know dont follow practices that allow for sane and easy backups and restores. Ghost is your friend. It's like restoring your saved game. You can go and kill everyone in town, open that chest, or infect/pollute/abuse/experiment with your system, and just restore your save game. For a Winbox I suggest: 1st Drive, C, partitioned as 5 gig partition, holds: windows, small programs 1nd Drive, D, partitioned with remainder of the drive, holds: large programs, desktop and my documents directories. All other drives to hold Data (audio, video, documents, software installers, ghost backups.) When putting the system together, install windows, create a ghost of C. Install drivers, create a ghost of C. Install small core programs like winRAR, tweek, continuum/subspace, Nero, etc that will live on C, create a ghost of C. Tweek and customize. Move swap file to another physical drive, move commonly used folders to a drive that wont be over written, setup email and IM clients, etc. Create ghost of C. Install large essential programs like office, photoshop, etc and small programs with dynamic config files such as SSH, FTP, etc that will live on D. Create ghost of C. Install games that you will be playing for the next 2 years or more. Create ghost of C. Install games you are currently playing. Create ghost of C. I've been following this since ghost 3.x, and have never found a need to create an image of my D drive. Abuse your system, if it starts acting up, restore it to a previous save point. Some of your programs may save config information on C. Incorporate those into a ghost image. There are some other considerations... but you get the point...
It can take several hours to clean a machine properly, but with a workshop setup, you do not have to only clean one machine at a time.
Our small setup has four bays and so can be cleaning four machines at a time. Plus laptops (just need a power socket).
A lot of the time "spent" cleaning/scanning does not require interaction. Set the scans running, and ocaisianally glance over them; "Finished yet? Found much? let it run another 1/2 hour. Time for another game of Quake"
Assuming one wants to earn $90/hr, with four machines being cleaned, one only needds to charge $22.5/hr
Sure, one can charge $90 to each of them, but one may find that not all bays are being used, as customers choose the cheaper guy down the street.
If one is called out on-site, then prices rise, as it takes one away from the other work.
b3 4phr41d 0f my 4bov3-4v3r4g3 c0mpu73r kn0wI3dg3!
MadDwarf
Only problem with a workshop setup is that either the tech has to go and pick up the machine, or the client has to drag it into the shop.
Neither one is desireable for most people (except for lapstops, maybe). Onsite support is just that.
Of course, offsetting that is that some people are too busy to sit around babysitting a tech onsite for four hours, too. My last spyware client allowed me to work on my own while they went to work, but a lot of people might not. (There were roommates in that situation, so it's not like I was alone in the residence, which would be a liability risk on my part as well.)
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!