EA To Publish for Valve

That's a step up? by Wilson_6500 · 2005-07-18 10:00 · Score: 1

Oh well. Let the conspiracy circus begin!

Re:That's a step up? by ZephyrXero · 2005-07-18 10:10 · Score: 2, Funny

Con-spir-a-cy n.
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

...at first I thought conspiracy was a bad choice of words, but upon further inspection it seems perfect ;)

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."

Contract? by Nos. · 2005-07-18 10:02 · Score: 5, Interesting

What I wouldn't give to see the contents of this contract. Since Valve really wanted to be able to distrubte electronically and bypass a publisher, I would imagine that's in their somewhere. Still, I think any publisher could make a lot of money still of HL2. Lets face it, there's still mods coming (DoD) and with an XBox version on its way, store shelves will be packed again with HL2 boxes.

Re:Contract? by HD+Webdev · 2005-07-18 19:45 · Score: 2, Insightful

What I wouldn't give to see the contents of this contract. Since Valve really wanted to be able to distrubte electronically and bypass a publisher, I would imagine that's in their somewhere. Still, I think any publisher could make a lot of money still of HL2. Lets face it, there's still mods coming (DoD) and with an XBox version on its way, store shelves will be packed again with HL2 boxes.

As far as Steam online distribution, I'm sure that matter is very detailed in the contract by Valve. Valve just finished several years of lawsuits vs Sierra/Vivendi and one of the main disputed issues was Valve wanting to distribute games directly to people on-line.

After going through years of that, I'm sure that Valve is very paranoid about getting back into the jam they just got out of.

IMO, EA will cash in on the console distribution mostly. After all, the PC distribution may be a loss in the long run. Once an EA/Steam game is installed, Valve will be able to sell more games directly to those PC players and that's a loss of future EA sales.

Valve wins: They get an Evil & powerful distributor to sell more copies of the game than Valve would otherwise. Using Steam, they will also get to directly advertise to those people.

EA wins: Bragging rights about having (implied created by EA as always) the most popular on-line FPS games in the world. And, they'll hope that the console sales make up for future losses by Steam distributed games to the PC gamers.

--
This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
Re:Contract? by |/|/||| · 2005-07-19 05:16 · Score: 1

IMO, EA will cash in on the console distribution mostly. After all, the PC distribution may be a loss in the long run. Once an EA/Steam game is installed, Valve will be able to sell more games directly to those PC players and that's a loss of future EA sales.
Or EA can end this painful boycott by releasing a non-steam version.
Please. Take my money. Just detach the strings from your product.

--
[javac] 100 errors

Steam by ZephyrXero · 2005-07-18 10:02 · Score: 1

How does this affect their Steam sales though? As long as I can buy my games directly from Valve, I don't have to contribute to the EA juggernaut ;)

--
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."

Re:Steam by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 10:23 · Score: 0

What the fuck is the point of publishing those numbers?

To call and bitch?

I'm this close to leaving this fucking community...
Re:Steam by Guspaz · 2005-07-18 11:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think that the fact that EA is the publisher is mostly irrelevant. Valve is (was) in a very unique position; they are an independant developer with a huge franchise looking for a publisher. Any publisher would kill to publish the game, under extremely tight restrictions. If a publisher doesn't like the restrictions, Valve can say, fine, publishers are knocking down the door to get this deal.

I suspect that the contract that Valve has with EA gives EA absolutely no control over the games themselves. EA normally only has control of games because they either made a game themselves, own the company that made the game, or put forth cash to make the game. Valve has plenty of cash, so they don't have any reason to give EA any control over their games at all.

I am guessing that the deal that Valve has with EA is pretty much "We supply the games, you publish them, end of story." I don't think we'll see EA delaying future releases via Steam because they're not on shelves yet; Valve didn't like it when Vivendi did that.

In short, I think that EA is simply a vehicle to get products on shelves and will have no control over anything. For those of us who hate EA and would rather our money didn't go to them, this is exactly what Valve's excellent STEAM platform is designed to do.

I purchased HL2 via STEAM. Vivendi didn't get a penny, though Vivendi did set a minimum price that Valve could charge. And now that EA is Valve's new publisher, EA won't get any of my cash; it's going all to Valve.
Re:Steam by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 11:16 · Score: 0

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
Re:Steam by dnixon112 · 2005-07-18 22:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

Maybe there's the flip side of the coin. Valve would also like to have more games on their Steam platform. EA's library would do nicely I'm sure. Perhaps this deal is only the beginning.
Re:Steam by williamhb · 2005-07-18 23:54 · Score: 1

Except that most people don't actually like Steam. It has usability nasties like forcing patches even for single player (guess I'll not be playing this today after all then), making it very slow to start games (first you have to wait for steam to start... login... check for updates... check the available games list... then you can think about starting your game), foisting advertising for new products on the user (in Steam Update News and the Coming Soon), and of course placing a technical barrier to reselling a game second hand even though the game's EULA permits it.

Valve don't care to fix these deficiencies for their own business reasons around Half-Life 2, but the upshot is I know very few people who wouldn't rather have a good ol' CD/DVD instead.

If EA wanted an online distribution and patch mechanism, they'd do much better to write a proper one rather than rely on Steam.

I hope Valve was hard-nosed by pkw111 · 2005-07-18 10:02 · Score: 1, Interesting

This is terrible, potenetially. I hope Valve was hard-nosed during negotiations, otherwise $EA$ will be pushing unfinished crap out for unrealistic deadlines. Anyone following what they did AGAIN with the battlefield series is shuddering at the thought of there slimy finger all over a nice game like HL2

Re:I hope Valve was hard-nosed by 77Punker · 2005-07-18 10:15 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ahhh, EA...how that company releases so many top-notch games but manages to make them all somehow less than they should be blows my mind.

I loved Need for Speed Underground on my Gamecube...except when it locked up.
I loved Battlefield 1942...except for the problems too numerous to list here which mostly got fixed eventually.
I'm currently loving TimeSplitters: Future Perfect on my Gamecube except for its lockups.

Who the hell besides EA releases a console game that isn't totall stable?!?!
Re:I hope Valve was hard-nosed by hudsonhawk · 2005-07-18 10:28 · Score: 1

Do you people even understand the difference between publishing and developing?

No?

Maybe I should know better than to expect ignorance to be an obstacle to posting on Slashdot.
Re:I hope Valve was hard-nosed by 77Punker · 2005-07-18 10:34 · Score: 1

No, I don't know how the games industry works, but I do recognize patterns. That's 3 games published recently by EA that by all other measures are excellent games, but came with awful flaws. Consider EA's the hand of doom.
Re:I hope Valve was hard-nosed by Elshar · 2005-07-18 10:36 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think you misunderstand the problem. Its more akin to a writer being forced by their editor/publisher to release a work that's still in between a rough draft and a final draft. That, and with the publishers seemingly able to stipulate odd requirements for patches make it really hard for the developers to even publicly fix issues sometimes. (I seem to remember this being the case with atari/moo3)
Re:I hope Valve was hard-nosed by jonwil · 2005-07-18 10:45 · Score: 1

For an example of developer vs publisher when it comes to patches, look at the PC version of HALO and what happened with the whole Halo CE thing.
Re:I hope Valve was hard-nosed by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 14:15 · Score: 0

Yup -- publishers decide when the game will ship, which means they carry the bag if the game is crappy. What are they going to do, release patches for console games to sit on the memory cards? Fuck that shit.
Re:I hope Valve was hard-nosed by daVinci1980 · 2005-07-18 15:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

You apparently do not have any inkling how the game industry works. Allow me to enlighten you, young padawan. (Either you don't work in the game industry, or you're very new if you do. Or you don't keep up with the industry rags, at least).

In the game industry, there are two (basic) types of developers. First party developers (that would be, developers who are actually just a branch within the publisher) and third party developers (who are working with a publisher via a contract).

I've worked for both--including the evil empire. The bottom line is that in the end, the publisher is law. Regardless of whether you are a first or third party developer, the publisher's QA department has to sign off on a title before it is released. When a product is realeased before it is ready, it is the publisher's fault--and was most likely the publisher's decision. In the case of PCs, there is at least some forgiveness for releasing games that have various bugs; due to the nature of PC hardware (and the nearly infinite combinations of video cards, sound cards, motherboards, RAM, drivers for all of the aforementioned, etc, etc, etc), it is almost certain that there will be at least one person whose machine is incapable of playing your title. However, a console is a fixed target. There is no excuse for all but the rarest of hangs. The memory allocations should even always shake out the same way, for chrissake. The thread switches--should your title use threads at all--are deterministic for the same sets of user inputs.

And incidentally, in the case of the three titles mentioned above, both NFSU and BF2 where developed first party by EA. (DICe was purchased by EA after the success of BF1942). The publisher was the developer in this case.

As far as the topic at hand, I'm neither here nor there. On the one hand, it saddens me that yet another talented studio has signed with the evil empire. (I imagine in 5-10 years that the other publishers will be gone or will form together to sue EA for monopolistic practices). On the other hand, I haven't played HL2 because I disagree fundamentally with a copy protection scheme that phones home even when I play single player.

--
I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
Re:I hope Valve was hard-nosed by Lonewolf666 · 2005-07-18 23:23 · Score: 1

As others said before me, Valve is in a much stronger position than most developers. Half-Life is hugely popular and if EA does not want the deal, others might be happy to jump in.
Thus, I guess you won't have to worry about EA dictating terms to Valve.

--
C - the footgun of programming languages

Um, what? by sc0ttyb · 2005-07-18 10:05 · Score: 1

Why didn't Valve go with someone respectable, like Activision? I'm sure they have their share of issues, but they're nothing like EA. Or am I wrong about this?

--
"Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose one day, it lands on its edge."

Re:Um, what? by Winterblink · 2005-07-18 10:13 · Score: 1

Why they went with ANYONE is beyond me. I thought Steam would have been a great way for them to be publisher-less.

--
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Re:Um, what? by LocoMan · 2005-07-18 10:35 · Score: 2, Interesting

Maybe they didn't want to mess with the other things publishers do (advertising and the like)... or maybe just didn't have enough money to fund complete development of their next game (since games, like movies, don't start to bring in money until they're released).
Re:Um, what? by jonwil · 2005-07-18 10:49 · Score: 2, Informative

Firstly, they need a publisher for the X-Box version (presumably the fact that they went with EA means that they couldnt or didnt want to self-publish this)
And secondly they need a publisher to get copies of things like expansions, mods (and also the eventual Half-Life 3) onto store shelves (not everyone is prepared/able to buy HL2 from Steam)
Re:Um, what? by mizzoubear56 · 2005-07-18 13:50 · Score: 1

"why didn't they go with someone responsible like Activision?" Activision publishes just enought to barely survive, let me rephrase. Activision has a crap to good ratio that barely keeps them alive. They publish bad games. Valve is smart, they had to have made it their handle on the leash if they were to go with EA. They'll release when they want, what they want. EA will though, be making a hefty amount of cash off this. Why didn't Valve go back to MS?

Mod Parent Up! by insomnyuk · 2005-07-18 10:13 · Score: 1

Funny, +1

Online Implementation by nevergleam · 2005-07-18 10:18 · Score: 2, Informative

Maybe EA will learn a few things about online implementation from Valve, rather than stick to this GameSpy travesty that haunts Battlefield 2 at the moment. Favorite servers, history, friends network...even though some of these don't work at all, they are features sorely missed in BF2.

Re:Online Implementation by gamerdave · 2005-07-18 14:13 · Score: 1

This has always puzzled me about the Battlefield series. They all have substandard server browsers, yet the one in Neverwinter Nights, which is also powered by GameSpy, has favorites, history, friend tracking, and even chat. Is GameSpy the problem, or is EA/DICE the problem?

--
Dave
http://internetgames.about.com
Re:Online Implementation by abandonment · 2005-07-18 19:40 · Score: 1

considering that the BF:Vietnam server browser was completely broken in the shipping version, and the fact that every single DICE game since BF:1942 has had the worst menu & server browser systems EVER, i would hazard a guess that it's a DICE problem, not EA...

BF:Vietnams 'sort by ping' feature was flat-out BROKEN - how did this get past EA's mighty quality assurance - seriously HOW?

Quite possibly the MOST used server browser feature - aside from perhaps the 'update' button, which barely worked at the best of times...this kind of bs quality assurance has been pretty much the death of DICE's reputation as a quality developer...

considering how good BF:1942 was - in just about every way - this is truly sad...And of course BF:2's release complete's DICE's fall into the depths of the dark side...

alas i digress...

Steam and EA are a perfect match...the only better publisher could possibly be microsoft...and considering the Valve are a bunch of ex-microsofties, this would be a truly perfect match...

but perhaps even Valve couldn't swallow the fact that after leaving MS to start Valve, all they did was end up being Microsoft employees once again...

--
Gekido's Lair
Re:Online Implementation by BenjyD · 2005-07-18 21:47 · Score: 1

BF1942's game browser had stupid bugs as well - before one of the recent patches, if you filtered on a map name with a space in it, it would ignore any text after the space. So filtering on "Battle of Britain" would match "Battle of the bulge" as well.
Re:Online Implementation by bitkari · 2005-07-20 03:02 · Score: 1

The browser is indeed awful. I guess the problems weren't picked up until the game was rolled out in to the wilds of the internet.

One good thing introduced with 1.01/02, however, is that you can now launch games via an external server browser like All Seeing Eye. You can then filter the servers properly, and connect to games a hell of a lot easier.

It can't filter out smacktard commanders tho. pity.

Valve Is Tired by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 10:20 · Score: 0

Did Half-Life 2 even sell that well? I'm sure it was no 20k shelf filler that makes up most of the stuff in the pc section, but for the money the put into the games development in addition to the financial liablity for letting themselves get hacked must have put a end to their big plans of bypassing publishers.

HL2 was just flatout boring. And new versions are just going to get worse now they have had to run to EA.

Re:Valve Is Tired by Scorchio · 2005-07-19 01:38 · Score: 1

Slashdot reported there were sales figures of 1.7 million units through retail, back in January. Can't find any mention of sales since then, or how many copies were sold through Steam, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the region of 3+ million in total. Not too shabby, particularly for a PC game.

I'd be particularly interested in the Steam sales figures, as I'd imagine there'd be a much larger profit on each of those units compared to box sales.

Boring? Probably wasn't your sort of game. It certainly held my attention, which is rare these days.

EA publishing Valve to have terrible consequences by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 10:21 · Score: 0

I expect EA to put pressure on Valve (as far as deadlines are concerned, for example) and we shall see the quality of the latter's games drop to dismal ... EA is certainly not liberal enough for Valve, I should think.

EA is just as bad as Vivendi by grumpygrodyguy · 2005-07-18 10:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

EA is the worldwide leader in bringing best of breed games, for all platforms, to market

Sorry, but that's total bs. As much as I loath Vivendi, EA is right up there with them. If you go to a store and pay $50 for Battlefield 2(an EA title) and install it, you will learn that you can't play online unless you completely uninstall all CD emulation/burning software on your computer.

Most slashdot gamers are PC professionals with dozens of utility programs like these installed on their computers. Utilities they need in order to use their PC the way they want. Insisting on the permanent uninstallation of these applications is an arrogant intrusion on the part of EA.

I'm infuriated because I bought this game fair and square and I can't play without a nocd crack. Some of you might suggest I just return the game, but it's a great game and I want to support the developers because they did such a great job...but I'm done throwing money into EAs coffers who screw their customers into altering their PC just to satisfy their draconion copy-protection scheme.

I will certainly be getting my next Valve title through steam however, and not through EA's handcuffs in a box. I just hope that in the future, Steam or another service like it will be able to distribute all PC titles through the internet, so we can finally get rid of these price inflating middle-men.

--
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky

Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by corrosive_nf · 2005-07-18 10:29 · Score: 1, Interesting

Thats a complete lie. Ive got daemon tools/alcohol 120% and a few others installed and I did NOT have to untinstall them to get bf2 to install.
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by grumpygrodyguy · 2005-07-18 10:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

Thats a complete lie. Ive got daemon tools/alcohol 120% and a few others installed and I did NOT have to untinstall them to get bf2 to install.

The error message the game gives you doesn't tell you the name of the offending program. It says something like '...uninstall all CD emulation software...'. Some tools package both emulation and ripping into the same tool set. So the already pissed customer has to keep uninstalling software one program at a time until it magically starts working.

Something like that should be grounds for a class action suit. I know people love to say 'read the EULA', but how long until the average EULA takes 20 days just to read and understand? It's more akin to entrapment than an agreement.

--
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by hawkbug · 2005-07-18 10:36 · Score: 1

Perhaps it depends what CD/DVD burning apps you have installed. I currently have around 7 on my machine, and I'd be curious to see what this game complains about specifically.
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by Wilson_6500 · 2005-07-18 11:22 · Score: 3, Insightful

Gamers need to be on the watch out for EA and other publishers who could try to form some kind of GPAA--we're already hearing the same story of "I want to support the artists (read developers), but I know the money just goes to the labels/whatever (read publishers)." Now they're trying to control how their product is distributed at the device level (barring CD emulators).
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by whodunnit · 2005-07-18 12:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

That's utter bullshit. I have 4+ cd/dvd burning programs on my computer, daemon tools, and a few other programs that would probably fall into those catagories and BF2 gave me no problems installing what so ever.
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by Some_Llama · 2005-07-18 12:35 · Score: 1

Ditto here, in fact I use DT instead of the BF2 cdrom to play the game (I hate the cdrom shuffle).
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by IIDX · 2005-07-18 12:58 · Score: 2, Informative

Clone CD did it for me. It ignored Dameon Tools, but until I pulled Clone CD, it didn't work.
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by Zeussy · 2005-07-18 13:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

I'm running Alcohol 120% and get no problems.

--
Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by leland242 · 2005-07-19 01:25 · Score: 1

I had this issue - the culprit was CloneDVD.

Alc120% was okay...
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by Gothic_Walrus · 2005-07-19 01:53 · Score: 1

The EULA is a mess, in most cases.
You've got to agree to it before you play yet you can't actually read it until you've bought the product, installed it, and rendered it unreturnable because it's been opened?

Sounds great to me!

--
Goo goo g'joob.
Re:EA is just as bad as Vivendi by Nosferatu+Alucard · 2005-07-19 16:07 · Score: 0

I had Alcohol 120% installed, and nothing else in the Emulation department. I got the error, and after uninstalling it, it worked fine. Seeing as how I only used Alcohol 120% for a few things, it didn't bother me much, since BF2 takes up all those games time slots, but I have found myself starting to go to use Alcohol 120% and wondering where it was, only to remember I uninstalled it to play BF2.

Friends feature doesn't work in CS:Source either by Work+Account · 2005-07-18 10:39 · Score: 1

If you Google and tinker with files for an hour or two you may be able to get it to work.

For the rest of us who just want to click and play you see

Signing into the Friends network. Signing into the Friends network.. Signing into the Friends network... Signing into the Friends network.... Signing into the Friends network..... Signing into the Friends network......

--

If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!

Xbox Steamed??? by poena.dare · 2005-07-18 10:41 · Score: 1

God forbid, could it really be, a version of HL2 that doesn't require logging on to Steam? I'd buy that for a dollar!

Or are they going to require your Xbox to be hooked up to Xbox Live to play? Oh that would be deliciously evil, as Stewie says.

Re:Xbox Steamed??? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 11:56 · Score: 0

Werd. That was such bloody garbage, fighting just to run a single player game because a server was boned. I don't care who publishes it as long as I don't have to deal with that crap again.

Although to be completely honest I'll be thrilled to get the expansion at employee cost. ;) (Yes, I work for EA; no, I'm not some kind of demented zombie to them just because they currently pay for my services. Of course I like my job well enough that I'll post anonymously.)

Jeebus... by SillyHatsOnly · 2005-07-18 10:48 · Score: 1

All EA is doing is distributing the game through very well established channels to the retailers. The game will probably get prime space on the shelves/kiosks, and sell more copies...good for players and good for valve.

This actually has the potential to be the first EA news that /. can think positively of...yeah, what the hell was I thinking.

20 years from now... by Digital+Vomit · 2005-07-18 12:51 · Score: 1

"We had ea-games when we were kids, too, but we called them 'video' games."

Ugh.

--
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.

thanks by Turn-X+Alphonse · 2005-07-18 12:54 · Score: 1

Thanks Valve you JUST lost a sale. If you'd not pulled something this fucking retarded I would of bought the HL2 expansion, now I won't.

Thanks you saved me money :)

--
I like muppets.

Re:thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 17:39 · Score: 0

If you thought THIS was dumb, then why did you buy HL2 in the first place? STEAM, with its requirement to phone home for SINGLE-PLAYER game sessions, has got to be close to the most intrusive copy-prevention crap I've ever seen. Since I don't like (nor trust) pie-rat copies, I'll simply never buy nor play HL2.

EA may have crappy policies, but it certainly doesn't have the potential to as much harm to the rights of PC users than STEAM does...
Re:thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 23:26 · Score: 0

No...you, sir, are a dumbass. Steam does not require you to "phone home" everytime you play HL2. Steam works similar to Windows Activation. If you're activated, you can be offline and play as much as you want.

STFU.
Re:thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-19 00:31 · Score: 0

If you'd not pulled something this fucking retarded I would of bought the HL2 expansion, now I won't.
I guess VALVe is crying at losing you as their customer...

Distributing -- NOT Publishing by Toddarooski · 2005-07-18 12:57 · Score: 3, Informative

According to GameSpot, Valve is self-publishing the title. EA is only distributing the game (i.e. using their contacts to get their games into stores like Toys R Us and Target). That's it. Nothing to freak out about.

--

"Do you expect me to talk?" "No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!"

Conthpiracy by tepples · 2005-07-18 13:26 · Score: 1

at first I thought conspiracy was a bad choice of words

I thought "cons-piracy" meant widespread prohibited copying of Lisp compilers.

You mean the ESA (formerly known as IDSA) by tepples · 2005-07-18 13:29 · Score: 1

Gamers need to be on the watch out for EA and other publishers who could try to form some kind of GPAA

You mean "Game Publishers Association of America"? In that case, there is no try.

Re:You mean the ESA (formerly known as IDSA) by Wilson_6500 · 2005-07-18 16:45 · Score: 1

I wonder why we don't hear so much about this ESA's anti-piracy bit? Glancing at that site, it looks like they're at least a little active--coordination or whatever of a raid in Mexico, and the like.

Are they less visible because they aren't litigating as hard as, say, the RIAA, or because they aren't lobbying so hard? Are they lobbing _smarter_ so that we don't hear so much about it?

... Maybe they just don't have enough A-s to be nasty yet.

So no one told you Half-Life was gonna be this way by tepples · 2005-07-18 13:34 · Score: 1

Signing into the Friends network...

I'll be there for you... (not)

EA released the BF2 beta. by Kelbear · 2005-07-18 14:28 · Score: 1, Informative

People who've poked through the battlefield 2 found the original interface menus. These had all the core features expected of a multiplayer game interface, as well as a whole tree for clan-specific functions! Everyone who owns BF2 can vouch for the "Boost" button in the Land controls. Did you guys ever realize that there is no vehicle that uses this button? Ayup that's right, it's a key for vehicles that were never put in the game. They didn't have time to remove the key from the key configuration menu apparently. Wondered why the ranking system only goes up to sargeant ranks when they advertised that you could go up to general ranks? They're saving them for the expansion which has the rest of the unlocks. EA was incredibly quick to announce their upcoming expansion to BF2, before even releasing the patch necessary to fix major playability issues! The 1.01 crash caused memory leaks that lagged and crashed servers to the point where it had to be repealed! (We have 1.02 now, which is just the working version of 1.01) They're selling us the rest of the game and just tacking on a few extras. EA rushed the developers to an early release date, leaving the consumer with a buggy game and the programmers scrambling for a playable patch. They pulled this same crap with Splinter cell games. I just love how you need a workaround just to use the apostrophe key in chat. Whether or not you're talking through text, hitting apostrophe will open the console! "Im sorry but Im just not a fan of saying youre, theyre, and its/its".(I'm serious, this was in Pandora tommorow, and was still around for the sequel Chaos Theory) This was a simple problem to fix.

Re:EA released the BF2 beta. by BenjyD · 2005-07-18 21:39 · Score: 1

I don't know why we expected anything different from BF2, really. Does anyone remember the problems with BF1942 when it was first released? Random disconnections, broken game browser, hundreds of bugs and crashes.

EA did the usual thing of spouting crappy troubleshooting ideas like forwarding ports or changing MTUs until they could get a patch ready. IIRC, it was many months before it was actually stable - after about four patches.

This just seems to be par for the course in PC gaming: promise the world, feed the hype machine (notice that gamespot's review makes no mention of bugs at all), release a crappy beta version and then stall for time while your overworked, undertrained developers scrabble to make a patch or three so that the game actually works.

Hence the fact that I do almost all my gaming on my Gamecube, PS2 or Gameboy these days. BF2 could be a great game, but I'm not sure I can be bothered to put up with the bugs, crashes and troubleshooting required for PC gaming any more.
Re:EA released the BF2 beta. by nekoes · 2005-07-18 22:47 · Score: 1

Didn't you hear! They're changing the game completely with the expansion. They're adding such innovative things such as a device known as a "grappling hook" (which will allow you to grapple onto a building and climb/zipline towards it) along with an ultra-realistic, never before seen in games "night vision goggles." With the inclusion of ultra-tall buildings to scale, and night time maps with REAL darkness - these items promise to change the way we see gaming forever.

After the news about this expansion was released, I saw a huge influx of copy-cat "grappling hook" mods in Q3A and TFC. I also just signed onto steam today for a bit of Counter-Strike:Source to see that they stealth-patched in some night vision goggles! EA and DiCE together are revolutionaries in the sea of mediocre gaming!

--
Hey, it's my OPINION that dogs have eight legs and make a sound like a car horn every time they take a piss.

Shouldn't that read... by LBt1st · 2005-07-18 15:27 · Score: 1

"EA has secured Valve as its new cash cow." EA will bleed them dry like every other development house then toss em into the ocean with all the rest.

if only... by KillShill · 2005-07-18 16:31 · Score: 1

"delivering great products to console and PC gamers around the world."

how about not handcuffing your customers, not calling them thieves and unloading DRM crippled crap on them.

frankly hl2 is one of the worst games of all time.

what? you say that i've never played the game?

true.

but as steam is inseperable from hl2, then my opinion stands.

legally and out of the box, steam is as part of hl2 as the engine and physics.

i was looking forward to this game (and i'm not even a fan of HL) but they lost me as a customer when they combined it with that DRM bullshit.

of course, there are millions of immature games who look passed all the hurdles they have to jump and ask permission from valve just to play the game that they legally bought.

online distribution is a great idea... in theory. the online distribution of hl2 is pure garbage. it is intentionally crippled and i do not spend money on junk.

once you sell a product you do not have any say in
what a customer does with it afterwards. (don't bring up copyright infringement because that's handled by the law, they don't get to dictate anything above that).

one can only hope this doesn't hold true as a trend. it is very unfortunate that people aren't educated enough about their rights (yes, commerce and related issues are a right) to stand up and just say no.

the software industry never learns from the past. the 80's with its endless list of floppy crippling and user frustrations.

--
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source

Re:if only... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 16:53 · Score: 0

ummm actually you can play HL2 without steam however you lose all of the online options. i play it that way on my laptop the time

http://dhost.info/bffelon/mods.html
Re:if only... by KillShill · 2005-07-18 18:36 · Score: 1

but you didn't fully read my post...

one: it's illegal under the dmca to even link to the site you did, it's also illegal to use it.

two: you have to go out of your way to find something like that... this time they were able to find a way to circumvent it... with treacherous computing, it'll be much much harder (unless a buffer overflow works...like reversing the polarity, except that it works.)

three: valve is saying "we don't trust you, our customers, so we'll call you consumers and take extra rights for ourselves and control our product after the transaction has been completed"

four: most people bring up the " you don't have to be online to play etcetc"

as a matter of fact, you have to get permission from valve every few days as they so graciously made the mechanism expire. if that isn't offensive to you... well wait a few years... you'll have a better grip on what that means then.

five: they have the ability and have exercised it to disable the account of any steam subscriber for any reason whatsoever WITHOUT any sort of trial or ability to rescind the "judgement". that's right folks, they can make your copy of the game you bought with your hard-earned dollars disappear. now imagine if any other industry pulled this shit...

and these are some of the reason off the top of my head why steam is pure shit/garbage and since you cannot legally seperate steam from hl2, that hl2 is also pure shit.

next time some ignorant "f**boy" starts spouting the valve corporate propoganda line or says why don't you whiny a**holes just shut up and take it, you can copy and paste this post for them to read.

--
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
Re:if only... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-18 19:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

Valve pretty soon realised that they had to abandon the DRM/CD copy protection stuff, and they did. Steam works smoothly: updates are automatically downlaoded (no searching on some filemirrors anymore where you have to create an account etc), the game can be played from different computers without having to enter a 20-digit serial no etc. "Pure garbag", "intentionally crippled": it may have not perfect from the start, but for me it is.
Re:if only... by Lonewolf666 · 2005-07-18 23:40 · Score: 1

But you still depend on valve keeping Steam running. If they ever shut it down, the offline modus will reportedly only work for a limited time. For me that is reason enough not to buy HL2 at full price.
If I see it on the rummage table for 10 euros some day, however, I might get it.

--
C - the footgun of programming languages
Re:if only... by dupont54 · 2005-07-18 23:40 · Score: 1

I completly agree with you.

Steam is one of the worst DRM scheme ever because its hidding its true nature. Everybody think that they have "buy" a game. The whole advertising and the pricing structure leads you to believe that.

But in reality, Steam and HL2 came with the same terms and conditions than any subscription-based service: you've got to be online from time to time and we can just cancelled your subscriptions/account at any time for any reason without refund or excuse or anything (see the Steam Subscriber Agreement section 13), which is too opened to be honest IMO, and very differently written than any other non-MMO game EULA.

Don't believe Valve will do anything nasty? I don't know, but I want to remind you about the former $10 tax Valve was collecting when you wanted to re-sell your HL2 boxed copy. It has needed the intervention of a german consumer association to get rid of this unaceptable hidden feature.

Now if you are happy with your one-time paid, not-lifetime subscription on some buggy online service.

And please stop with Valve as being the savior of originality and creativity in the game industry. Come on, have a look at their catalog: sequels, add-ons, free fan made mods gone retail... Even EA come from time to time with more original titles...
Re:if only... by KDR_11k · 2005-07-19 00:44 · Score: 1

MS has a clause in their EULAs that they can terminate the license whenever they please without reason. I doubt the law allows that.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:if only... by stanmann · 2005-07-19 02:14 · Score: 1

I have no complaints with a subscription service based game having a subscription service based T&C. I do have a problem with a single player game having subscription service based T&C. And yes there are those of us out here who don't play multiplayer FPS ever. We get pwned enough playing against the computer.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:if only... by dupont54 · 2005-07-19 03:41 · Score: 1

I've just check my XP Pro EULA. It says:

6. TERMINATION. Without prejudice to any other rights, Microsoft may cancel this EULA if you do not abide by the terms and conditions of this EULA

Stea(l|m) SSA states:

Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time.

followed by

Valve may, but is not obligated to, provide access (for a limited period of time) to the download of a stand-alone version of the software and content associated with such one-time purchase.

Maybe I've got really poor English skills, but I see a HUGE difference in Evil-Level between the two...

Now, about what the law allow... I would prefered not have to know for a mere game *purchase* (or renting)...
Re:if only... by KDR_11k · 2005-07-19 05:29 · Score: 1

Last time I read a Windows EULA was with Windows 95 so they might have changed that since it was unenforceable.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.

Has To Be Said by blueZhift · 2005-07-19 00:01 · Score: 1

Valve, you too will be assimilated by the Borg...

--
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started

The first message to Valve by Rinisari · 2005-07-19 01:12 · Score: 1

What hath Gabe wrought? (for future reference of ya'll, /.'s Lameness filter blocks morse code)

--
Colin Dean Go a year without DRM

Re:The first message to Valve by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-19 07:08 · Score: 0

(for future reference of ya'll, /.'s Lameness filter blocks morse code)

so what you're saying is that slashdot doesnt do the dash-dot?

You people... by leland242 · 2005-07-19 01:35 · Score: 1

What a bunch of whiny bitches.

Waaah, HL2 has Steam...

Waaah, BF2 won't let me play with X installed...

Waaah, "They aren't getting MY money!"

Waaah, "I'M NOT..."

Here is a clue: we are talking about games. Sure it's an interesting subject, but in the end, it's just a game. You don't want to play BF2 because your neighbor's friend's brother told you he had lag? You think Valve is spying on you with Steam? Too bad for you.

The reality is, HL2 and BF2 are 2 of the best games I've played in a long time. I understand that I'm buying a product from someone, and, gasp, I might not have 100% freedom to have it work like I want to. I don't recall seeing the GNU license attached to either of these games.

Re:You people... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-07-19 01:53 · Score: 0

My Goodness...
I have been going about this all wrong. Thank you for pointing out that I am a whiny bitch. Not only have I now examined my purchase of a $50 game in a new and enlightened manner, I have found that I can move along with many of the other things in my daily that bother me w/o complaining. I salute you sir, for pointing out the flaw in my logic and reasoning. Had we only realized earlier that we were all whiny bitches this entire post could have been avoided.

Bah...
I think its okay to be upset with a product that you pay for. You just need to keep perspective on the situation. Yes, its only a game. But yes, it is also a major hassle to figure out which computer in the house can run what.

Out.
Re:You people... by leland242 · 2005-07-19 02:51 · Score: 1

"I think its okay to be upset with a product that you pay for."

I do to, but some of these people are out of thier minds. Hey, I was annoyed at having to uninstall CloneDVD to play BF2.

But for someone to complain about code left in the game for options that don't exist...how about looking at what's *in* the game, not what might have been in the game (Hot Coffee mod anyone?). Someone else was discussing the virtues of a ` and how it didn't work properly during in-game chatting.

Small potatoes.

But I suppose if we all sat here saying how great everythign was, there wouldn't be much of a discussion :)
Re:You people... by i_ate_god · 2005-07-19 12:25 · Score: 1

It would be a much more pleasant discussion. It would also certaintly set a huge precedent, not just for slashdot but for the entire internet community as a whole. A pleasent discussion about something a software company released? It seems almost impossible! Perhaps it's something we should try just to say "WE DID THE IMPOSSIBLE!"

--
I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...

Steam, or EA? The decision is *cough* obvious by i_ate_god · 2005-07-19 12:14 · Score: 3, Interesting

Thats the message I'm getting here. People hate steam because it prevents them from what exactly?

Oh right, being able to properly pirate a game and show Valve they don't give a shit.

HL2 by anyone's standards is a high calibre game. Even if you don't like FPS, there is no question about it. The attention to detail and the sheer power of the Source engine are mind blowing. Of course, these things take time and money to develope. I for one am grateful that Steam exists. It's so much better than any other possible method of protecting Valve's IP. For starters, it didn't require any hardware changes. It doesn't require an internet connection. It doesn't require a dongle. It doesn't really require anything at all.

For those who obviously don't know, Steam can and will work in an Offline mode. It will allow you to play HL2 single player, single player mods, and allows you to work on your mods and maps with the Source SDK. Don't tell me it doesn't, because it does. I lost internet for two weeks and the only thing that prevented me from committing mass murder and subsequently suicide was still being able to work on my Source mod, and still being able to play HL2 to see how Valve did certain effects.

I can not figure out for the life of me why some people are just so paranoid about steam calling home. It is a reasonable measure taken to protect valve's prized work and to ensure that there is a steady cash flow to Valve so that they can outdo themselves, again. Luckily, I do not have to look forward to idiotic DRM concepts that are not consumer friendly. I don't need a dongle, I don't need special hardware, I don't even need a CD. I don't even need to visit a store. And most importantly, I do not need to give EA money.

There seems to be a great deal of ungratefulness for this ease of use with Steam. It's almost like the mere mention of a company that wants to protect its works is now branded evil, even when they do it the easiest way possible. And naturally, all hatred and complaints come with absolutely no suggestion for an alternative.

There is another huge advantage to Steam that many people have overlooked. It allows Valve to implement very strict anti cheating measures. If you cheat, your copy of HL2 becomes INVALID and there is nothing you can do about it. I applaud this measure. It's impossible to fake your cd key with steam, so the arguement that "well, someone else did it" fails because that is solely your responsibility. And even if you are busted for cheating, you can STILL login to Steam, and STILL play online, just on insecure servers that don't implement VAC, which is more generous than I would've been. CS 1.5 was plagued by hackers, and there was little Valve could do about it. Now they much more control over it.

So all in all, the complaints about steam are unfounded, illogical, and demonstrates a great deal of ignorance and unfounded paranoia by the people who are against it.

--
I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...

Re:Steam, or EA? The decision is *cough* obvious by Xud · 2005-07-20 03:17 · Score: 1

I think most of the people are paranoid because they don't want valve to find out about all the "less then legal" stuff they have on their computers :-).

But in all honesty, the calling thing did put me off for a second. People do seem to guard their privacy hardcore and having "steam call home" can be looked at as violating that privacy. I quickly forgot about it however when I played HL2. :-)

I agree with you in the fact that , yes, Valve is only protecting their hard work, but, I think they can figure out a more creative and less obtrusive way to handle it.

And yes, Steam is an advantage right now. I stopped liking EA because of the forced deletion of some 3rd party software just to play the game. And being able to bypass a publisher like EA can justify a call from steam.
Re:Steam, or EA? The decision is *cough* obvious by i_ate_god · 2005-07-20 05:38 · Score: 1

What is the worst that can happen when Steam calls home? It sends over your ip address, your email you used for steam, and your password. OH MY FUCKING GOD THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO KIIL ME NOW. Give me a break. That is not a violation of privacy in any way whatsoever. It is not obstrusive, and will almost likely never be used against you except to cancel your steam account for doing something stupid with it. With this type of thinking, I'm surprised privacy nazis don't just lead a campaign against the internet. IRC servers record ip addresses. Websites do it. FTP servers can do it. Perhaps privacy nazis can fight for a law to be passes that states that ISPs can not in any way collect any personal information from you. That way, you can pirate your internet connection and not pay for it. stfu

--
I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...

Re:Friends feature doesn't work in CS:Source eithe by Nosferatu+Alucard · 2005-07-19 16:02 · Score: 0

Or you could be like some of us and click "cancel" on the sign in and not have to worry about it.

Friends hasn't worked in ages, it worked decently in the steam beta, but I haven't seen it working in the past 6 months ever.

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