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Microsoft Sues Google For Hiring MS Exec
bonch writes "So it begins...Microsoft is suing Google for wooing away a top executive to work in a China research lab. Microsoft is accusing Kai-Fu Lee of breaking his contract by taking a job within a year of leaving Microsoft, and accused Google of 'intentionally assisting Lee.' Google describes the claims as 'completely without merit' and vows to defend against them."
I guess this means "intentionally," but it's hard to be sure...
Since when can a company control whether or not you get to get another job? Could this mean that companies could FORBID you from ever getting another job? Or at least prevent you from getting another job for a longer period of time? I'm asking because some companies might use this as "incentive" to keep people from quitting, particularly game programmers who are overworked and frankly, underpaid.
If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
So... all this because he got a job within a year of leaving MS?
What do they expect, him to just roam the streets homeless until times comes to get a job?
Riiiight...
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
Shouldn't it be the employee that gets the lawsuit? They were the ones who broke the contract? Not Google? I mean, yes, I read the article, but wouldn't it make more sense to just sue the person, not try and make up random claims?
Sure, they want to attack Google in all ways they can, but seriously... this just seems stupid.
In MS's case, I think this is obsurd!
Wait... if I want to work for you, I have to promise not to work for them sometime in the future? Okay... And I have to name my firstborn child Billy?
Tom Burt, a lawyer for Microsoft, said Lee announced Monday that he was leaving for the Google job and had given no indication that he planned to honor an agreement not to work for a direct competitor for one year.
"To the contrary, they're saying, 'In your face,'" Burt told The Associated Press.
Your honor... yada yada yada... IN YOUR FACE!!! HA! Now there is a new legal argument. I wonder if this groudbreaking lawsuit will be referred to from now on as the "facial"?
Google shot back with a statement saying: "We have reviewed Microsoft's claims and they are completely without merit. Google is focused on building the best place in the world for great innovators to work. We're thrilled to have Dr. Lee on board at Google. We will defend vigorously against these meritless claims."
Okay, it is starting to sink in. Mr Lee has an agreement with Microsoft saying he will not work for a competitor. A competitor hires him. But does the competitor have any contract with Microsoft? Who should get sued?
In its lawsuit, Microsoft said it was seeking a court order forcing Lee and Google to abide by terms of confidentiality and noncompetition agreements that Lee signed at Microsoft.
Oh fuck. Now you did it. Luccciieeee!!!
Okay, time for some Seminals finest analysis. Fuck you Microsoft. You are a dirty bastard who has lived past its expiration date. Die, die, die, you miserable corporation. Sink back into the depths of hell from which you came.
Translation...
Microsoft has no right to mandate what kind of work someone does. Microsoft did not train this person, Microsoft did not make this person a better person. Mr Lee is the one who made microsoft better. He shared his mind and ideas with them. If Microsoft patented them, which I am sure they did, then there is no conflict of interest. This guy can go and and think new thoughts for Google.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
If you want to talk about such actions... I suggest you look up Alienation of Affection. It's only still useable in a few states (South Dakota being one of them (where I live)) and has to be one of the coolest and yet most ridiculous concepts still on the books.
In short, it is based on the concept that a wife is property of her husband, and if another man should 'steal' the wife from the husband and cause her to wish to be with him, leading to the end of the existing marriage, the (former) husband has legal standing to sue the other man for taking his wife.
Brilliant eh?
In most states where this concept exists (or more often existed), it has been thrown out by judges hearing such cases in recent years, so it's existence is quite endangered.
Why do I mention this? Simple, the example you made as a joke believe it or not has some legal standing.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
At my job (a small company of 11 people), I was recently informed that we would be renegotiating contracts. I was then handed a 16 page document and told if I did not sign it, I would be fired.
Nestled deep among the fine print of this document I discovered the following gems:
- I cannot use a computer for two years after I leave.
- The contract never expires.
- Anything I do on my computer, at my own home, on my time, belongs to the company.
- If I get another job on a computer, I have to notify them, and the company has a right to send my new employer a copy of the contract.
My boss says I'm reading it wrong, its all legal speak, and its just a friendly contract. He also claims every business will make me sign the same thing. Is this legal? I've received a lot advice. Some say to quit, some say its unenforcable, and I should sign it, etc.So far I have not signed it (so I can leave and compete all I want...), but cannot find a job to leave this company for. Should I sign it? Is anyone hiring a web programmer in the Tampa, FL area?
As an IT contractor, I have repeatedly refused to sign a contract with a non-compete clause. They are simply too board. I will not agree to let a company put me on the bench unemployed for a year just because I took a job working for them. I have to earn a living, and I am not changing careers just because I left one employer for another.
The US courts tend to dislike these clauses as they restrain free-trade and block free enterprise. Since both parties in this complaint have the reputation and resources to call attention to this issue, I look forward to seeing more caselaw defending the rights of employees and courts scrutinizing noncompete agreements very closely and hopefully refusing to enforce them.
Microsoft is at war with Google over developers. Microsoft's entire global domination strategy has been best described (by an insanely bellowing simian MS executive) "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS" (rinse, repeat). Google's APIs, and their huge popularity, have stolen all of MS' thunder. Where the developers go, the apps go. And apps create demand. That demand is the market that software companies like MS serves. Because Google sells... er, advertizing, and maybe more later, they're more flexible. While undermining the MS lead in attracting developers to Windows threatens the entire MS empire. That's why MS went after Netscape so hard: Netscape's promise of a cross-platform Internet application system was an end-run around MS, and their developer/customer lockins. Now Google gets to take a turn, without the vulnerability to monopoly competition, in browser and server markets, that let Netscape succumb. An interesting sidelight in this battle-spiral will be the dance of Linux developers, who are more free to hitch wagons to Google's Web services, without the burden of a monopoly to defend. Let the good times roll!
--
make install -not war
Suing over employee "poaching" is pretty common business practice in some countries.
When you say this, are you refering to the suing of the second company to hire the employee, or the suing of the employee in question. I understand that he may have broken some kind of contract, which in some way, that I find very strange, must remain valid after he quits, but how can another company that had nothing to do with the origonal contract be held responsible for a breach by a newly hired employee? I would think that it would be the responsibility of the employee to refuse employment offers.
One question I wonder about, if Google wanted this guy so bad before another company picked him up, could they put this guy on a salery and have him sit at home untill his 'Microsoft year' is up?
Vol~
It also varies between state. CA is an "at will" state. Non-compete means nothing here; it's a "gentleman's" contact, nothing more. A company can dismiss you with no warning and you can quit with no warning.
Silicon Valley was built on "at will". Otherwise there would never had been a Sun, Cisco, or Juniper, etc.
The valley is based on poaching. As it should be. A vital resource should be able to command as much money as the traffic will bear. MS got dozens, if not hundreds of patents and millions if not billions of dollars out of the guy. I'm pretty sure his cut was less than that. TS. Guy doesn't want to work for MS does want to work for Google.
Cry me a river...
China also is "at will".
Great. So when is Gentoo going to sue Microsoft?
Spot on, absoloutely right. I own a web design company and all of our developers sign non disclosure agreements. Now I take a fairly loose approach on it (that and deadlines; better late than wrong, M$ taught me that much) - if they want to use what they learned within my company while working on different projects either on their own time or moonlighting, thats usually okay with me, NDA notwithstanding.
As long as it doesn't compete with the projects they worked on. We pay them, we did the market research to determine the project had demand, we put the sales force out on the road and invested in advertising, we even came up with the ideas in the first place, so some nimrod doesn't have the right to take our hard work and sashay off to another company in competition. There is a reason the developers and designers are paid, and not them paying us.
In this case, I hope Google and Lee get hammered.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
You must have been the HR person who kept pushing paper after paper in front of me to sign. You said "This is just a formality, just sign there, and there, and initial there. Good. Very good, you will be perfect here".
I did not think anything of it, until I got my first check and had a "fines" category. Seems that I did not park in the "employee" section, across the street, behind the dunkin doghnuts, just a short 1/2 mile walk to work. The stores parking lot was reserved for customers only.
Then there was the fine because someone saw me eating lunch at McDonalds. They said those kinds of neglectful eating choices raises the insurance premiums on everyone. I scratced my head wondering what they were talking about, I did not have any health insurance. Hmmm... Could I have raised their rates just because I smelled like a Big Mac?
Okay, the second one was Bullshit, but it did happen in michigan. One company has a no-smoking policy. Ever. Smoke at home, and get fired. Then there was the guy who worked for Budwieser, who was spotted drinking a Coors beer after work one day. He was fired too. It is amazing the shit that can get into a work contract.
Here is something that really did happen to me. I saved the best for last. I was working in factory one summer. It was a stupid job assembling shit. There was a quota per day, 200 parts assembled. with no more than 2 rejects. I think my third or fourth day, once I was out of training and figured out what they wanted done, I assembled 800 parts with 3 that were rejected. Understand, this job was mindless, a repetative hell. A 12 year old could have done it (and probably is in China).
And I got in trouble. Why? The Union contract stated the low end quota, of 200 parts. They did not want anyone doing more. So the Union rep pulled me to the side, and said "if you keep up that shit, I'll send you home". The first 90 days are a probation, and not only can the employer fire you for any reason, the Union can reject you too by not accepting you into the union, and since it is a closed shop, that means the company can not hire that person. It is fucked up, ain't it?
There is all kinds of dumb shit that can get in a contract. What we need is something simple. Pay a livable wage. Provide a pension for retirement, and health care. Treat workers with respect.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
The legal ramifications are that it may amount to interference with a contract. In fact, poaching another company's employees when those employees have signed contracts preventing them from switching to the competition is a very frequently cited example of contract interference.
One of the requirements for success in a lawsuit for this is that the defendant intentionally induced the third party to violate their contract, which is why "intentionally assisting him" has more to it than the obvious meaning.
However, that doesn't mean that companies don't try to overreach. Courts tend to look at three factors: type of job; geographic spread of the non-compete clause; and lenght of time it would be in force.
A non-compete clause for a line cook (a common position, not skilled [apologies to slashdot-reading line cooks]) would probably not be enforced, but one for some kind of head chef or software exec. probably would be.
The geographic reach of the clause is a bit job-dependent as well (e.g. 'head chef, you will not open a restaurant within 5 miles of our restaurant'), but I am not sure what kind of reach a court would allow for an internet type industry (you are directly competeing whether you are in Alaska or Florida).
The length of time is fairly straightforward as well (for the law, anyway) - what is a reasonable amount of time to keep the person from competing in that field in that geographic area.
Anyway, if you encounter one of these things, remember that just because they make you sign one doesn't mean it is legally enforceable - Google apparently didn't think MS could enforce this one.
Wow, such a non-compete agreement is pretty sick.
Over here in Germany those agreements are permitted by law and an accepted practice. However, they come with a twist:
These agreements are limited to (I think) two years. If you have one in your work contract and you resign or get fired, you employer can either decide to let you go and accept you working at the competition or has to continue paying about 75% of your salary as a compensation.
If you didn't know about the contract then I would agree with you. But if you knew about the contract between the two parties and then intentionally helped one of the parties break that contract that is where you have the tort violation. Because you acted in bad faith to sever a legally recognized relationship.
Does this mean a woman can sue her husband's mistress?Yes
In some states a spouse can have a recognizable legal claim against the "other person" with whom the the other spouse had an affair.
The claim, like the Microsoft's claim, is call"tortious interference".