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Return of Text-Based Games?
twivel asks: "I've noticed a trend recently. I've had many friends return to text based MUDs even after a couple years of playing MMORPGs like Everquest and WoW. When I've asked them why they returned, they've said that the virtual community in MUDs really seems to set them apart from the newer MMORPGs. In MMORPGs, you just get lost in the numbers. In the forums on places like MUDConnect, a popular MUD listing site, you find people claiming that the MUD community is actually growing. For those of you who've experienced both forms of entertainment, would you agree? While the cost is much less (many great MUDs are 100% free), how would you rate your overall experience with MUDs compared to newer forms of online entertainment?" A bit of this discussion was touched on not too long ago, but it would be interesting to note if the MUD community is enjoying a resurgence in popularity, as the article implies.
OK, reading through the original post, I think I can see the problem that some people have with MMORPGs. Thing is, though, I don't agree that this is a problem inherant in the genre, it's more a matter of how players approach it.
The key factor here is size. I've done one or two MUDs and most of these had player counts in the hundreds, or occasionally the low thousands. A large-scale commercial graphical MMORPG, on the other hand, isn't really commercially viable with less than about 50,000 players.
There are some obvious implications here. Even if the MMORPG in question takes the common approach of parcelling players on different servers, with average populations of 10,000 or so (which is a pretty low estimate for a lot of the games out there), it's always going to be more people than you can get to know. Hell, my secondary school had 1,000 pupils and I doubt I knew more than 150 or so, even on a passing basis. And that was without the problems of location and language barriers that you have in a MMORPG.
The result of this is that a player who doesn't have a good, consistent group of friends in a MMORPG, be they real-life friends or online acquiantances, is going to have a pretty lonely experience. In a MUD, on the other hand, with just a few hundred people, it's easier to become a known face much more quickly.
Now personally, I *much* prefer playing a graphical MMORPG. These games are designed to be played for pretty serious amounts of time and if I'm going to look at anything for that long, I want my eye-candy, goddamit. Moreover, I'm always impressed when the developers of a MMORPG manage to come up with a new visual location design that really knocks me back. Both FFXI and WoW have managed this fairly regularly (although you have to get pretty deep into the Zilart and Promathia strands of FFXI to find the prettiest areas). The quality of service and regularity of updates that you get from a well-run commercial MMORPG is more than worth the monthly fee.
I guess if there's a solution for people who are finding it hard to "click" with a MMORPG and missing the interractions of a MUD, it's to find a regular group. Either throw heavy things at real life friends until they sign up, or actively seek out a group of like-minded players in game. A good guild/linkshell of 50-100 people, with its own rivalries, goals and ethos, can completely transform your gaming experience.
My name is MUD!
With a mud, at least the ones that I play, you may not have numbers anywhere as high as in a MMORPG, but it's generally alot easier to make an influence on the surrounding world. I'd say that there are alot more MUDs that, when big things happen, the world is actually changed.
MMORPGs might be huge, but at least with MUDs, they generally at least have the RP that the so-called RPGs ascribe to.
Luke
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Do you like ketchup? I just found the most hilarious stand-up monologue all about ketchup. Go read it!
By the way, the MUD I play is called Dark Mists http://darkmists.org/ and my character is Nij so if any of you want to stop by I'd be happy to show you around.
Utinam me logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant.
The difference between MUDs and MMORPGs is the same as the difference between a book and a movie. Sometimes nothing can beat our own imaginations.
This post approved by Shampoo.
I co-founded and coded 100k lines of C for Avendar: The Crucible of Legends. I think they've remained steady now for about 7 years of uptime as far as players. But it's true - the admins get to know you, the players really know each other, and you can actually engender a lot more character vs character conflict without anonymous asses ruining the process as would happen in an MMO.
I also scripted and built for an NWN persistent world, City of Arabel. It was and remains one of the most popular PWs for NWN - pretty much pegged to capacity in prime time (and sometimes way beyond prime time) for the past 3 years. One of the reasons PWs get so popular and remain so is that the smaller playerbase allows you to develop intimate plots and interactions between characters. With just 50-55 players at peak, spread across a level range, Arabel resembles a tabletop D&D game as much as it resembles an MMO.
Moreover, one thing MMOs have really lacked is personalization. You don't interact in a dynamic manner with NPCs of note, gods, and GMs do not set up and run quests. That's decidedly untrue in the smaller scale games. For Arabel, for example, and other NWN PWs, it's common to have DMs running quests. I used to start all sorts of things - evil mage kidnaps PC, and her friends assemble a group to rescue her; a city official from Arabel requests help to accomplish some task; an earthquake opens a gateway down to undiscovered caverns where riled-up elementals guard ancient catacombs; a mage in town loses control of a summoning circle and demons begin to pour through onto the Material Plane. What made these events special is that everyone participating in them was experiencing them for the first (and generally only) time. This isn't like an MMO where you can hit a database to figure out how to solve the quest that's bothering you or find where to get the phat loot.
I think there's a big future for an MMO with a dual-subscription model, where there's a customized service that gives you unique opportunities to adventure and emulate the tabletop sort of experience. Or perhaps a game will come out like NWN, where there's a client, a toolset, a DM client, and an "official" persistent world that plays like an MMO, but also you can use the tools to create your own. Imagine if players could craft their own city areas and script their own quests in City of Heroes or World of Warcraft. Imagine having a small WoW server with a few GMs that were out to customize play like a traditional DM, and only 40 players on at a time.
I've been playing MUDs for about 8 or 9 years now, and MMOs for maybe half that. I've found that the only two things the latter are better at are
1. Graphics (obviously) and
2. Sheer numbers
For everything else, from combat to PVP to player housing, I've found some MUD that's done it better. If I found a MMORPG that was nothing more than a graphical conversion of one of my favorite MUDs (say, DragonRealms), I'd be there in an instant. I have to also wonder how many additional people would try it out then, when they wouldn't give consideration to a MUD.
I think the issue relates to how you define community. I am an avid WoW player and completely hooked on the game still. To me the community isn't the entire player population. It is broken into subsets.
All Players -> Server -> Faction (Alliance/Horde) -> Level Range -> Guild -> Friends in Guild.
The lowest common denominator in WoW is really people in your faction, since you can't communicate with the enemy at all. Also, you don't really do much with people outside of your level range, so those guys are the ones you see most of the time.
I really only consider my guild mates to be my real community. We mostly do instances together, so I see them a majority of the time without a whole lot of interaction with other people. I have a fairly large subset of people in my guild I would consider friends and mostly spend my time with that subset.
I don't think it is fair to say that because MUDS have less people, you have more community. I just don't think you can define "community" as the millions of players that have accounts.
/. ++
All the kiddie jerks that play the MMOs that trask talk, l33t speak, etc that just ruin the games. Percival Role Play server in DAOC was simply the best place I have ever seen for any MMO. All the kiddies stayed off of it. Too bad Mythic just ran DAOC into the dirt.
Maybe part of the fun is that it's not for the masses.
I know it has been said in a number of ways but here is my observation. I am not a big online game player, I tend to enjoy my solo experiences rather than deal with people and all their downfalls online (cheating, ego's, n00b's, etc.) I recently bit th ebullet and bought Guild Wars as it was billed as a skill/strategy over hours played game. This was the case the first week, then it went horribly off course.
Now it is filled with all the usual crap. I put in three solid months and always hope for it to turn around but it isn't going to. So ultimately I spend all of my time solo or with AI henchmen to form my parties. I was in a solid guild but they all left for WoW. Not having any RL friends that play games I'm stuck.
The sheer number of players in the game and no real way to hook up with like-minded folks leaves you alone in a sea of people. This is no fun. A MUD has a more intimate setting and feel and even though I can go in not knowing anyone I can make friends and team up within a week and have a good feel for everyone involved. I wish it could be this way in an MMO. Multi-game guilds/clans are worse because they are a defined structure and everyone is not welcoming to outsiders.
It makes playing a game into a big social experiment... the exact thing I play games to get away from.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
You actually get to roleplay your character, which is an important part of the experience. Instead of killing X number of rats so you can gain points to kill bigger things, or mining gold so you spend more billable hours on the game, the range of options and quests is much broader.
Certainly the ability of the players to customize their environment is also much higher, as well as being easier to accomplish. Adding flair and pizzazz to a player can be as easy as modifying a text string.
MUDS at least to me offer another set of advantages in that I can often play them on any connection, on any computer and with any amount of time. When I played WOW sometimes I was virtually coerced by people I guilded with to spend 3-4 hours clearing a dungeon. That is a stupid amount of time to play a game for me so I quit.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
yeah I miss the old days of mudding. My personal favorite was Looneymud it was something totally unconventional compared to other muds which were usually D&D based. This MUD was more based on television, cartoons, and movies. It was a place where you could encounter just about anything, whether it be Bert and Ernie or Darth Vader. I would spend hours exploring its intricaces. I check in now and then and it is still up after all these years, just not as busy. If you are looking for a place to kill a lot of time and some very strange mobs, check it out sometime. :-)
DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
all solo-player though (so possibly off-topic)
I am currently developing, with another close friend, exactly what you're talking about, or at least pretty damned close. The name of the game is Fallen, and it's going to be a role-playing intensive, many-featured, text-based webgame. Players can not only run, but purchase and build their own cities, or not, and then appoint city commanders to lead whole armies-at-a-time against other cities armies, or not -- players may simply exist. Combat is never going to be a necessity for character development -- the skillsets and proficiency system incorporate fairly standard combat styles, but also include things like architecture, artistry, writing, etc. So a player could reasonably exist for the soul purpose of being an architect hired by city owners to design their city. And all of this takes place within a broad, player-directed story -- the events and decisions made by our players will shape the future of the world in a very literal way. Simply for the fact that's only in early alpha form, I hesitate to release the link, but stay tuned. What I've found interesting in the project is that it can combine real-time and turn-based gaming, role-playing, strategy, a little bit of the "pretty stuff" (graphics and the like), and an enormous amount of imagination through a simple, web-based interface -- no socket or persistent connections are ever created. It's been extraordinarily interesting, and keeps getting better. So the short answer to your question(s) is yep. :)
When I've asked them why they returned, they've said that the virtual community in MUDs really seems to set them apart from the newer MMORPGs
This is probably true as long as you avoid MUDs with less than ~30 people on-line at once. In these MUDs everyone who's anyone seems to know each other, and they are usually very cliquey. Playing on servers like that can become 6 months of fraternity hazing instead of 6 months of gaming. The smaller MUDs are even worse, usually occupied by a ring-leader admin and a handful of 'admins' who bully and abuse the server. I remember this one wasteland themed MUD where the admins were so abusive that they threatened to ban me because they didn't like my character description.
Lots of people have experienced this kind of thing on CS servers, where 95% of the people who apply for admin do so in order to bully the other players with threats of being kicked/banned/llama'ed if someone says or does something the admin doesn't like. This is very prevelant on some of the smaller MUDs also. There are exceptions, but they seem to be in the minority.
In short, if you've never played a MUD before but would like to try one...do some research first and try to find a MUD that caters to at least 50 players online at once. This increases your chances of finding a game you'll enjoy.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
Fixed.
My old MUD(which I don't run anymore) has recently gone through a resurgance of popularity. Average online players is back up to over 100, with peaks in the 150s and lows in the 40s.
Like most MUDs it's been in one state of development or another for over a decade. It's code pedigree traces back even further to the early days of DIKU and MajorMUD. It's seen staff come and go, changed servers, lowered the GPAS of several groups of college students, and still it endures.
Honestly, I still prefer MUDs to MMOs. They are far more polished, the systems are better, the admin staff is better, the communities are far more tight knit, and well... everything is better except the UI and eye candy.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
Again, not inherent in the medium. There are 3D games that actually encourage players to transform the world. A few years back, I played something called AlphaWorlds, which was basically a ginormous plane on which you can put 3D objects, referenced by URL. Stack them, connect them, add JavaScript events, but it's the players creating the world, not the developers.
/me would get you, while the technology allowed for so much more.
Of course, I really want to see something like WoW do more of that. Somewhere in between, really. I don't want people loading gigantic custom penis models into a medieval world, but I do want to, for instance, be able to chop down trees and build a house with them. Or, remember when a community took down the Sleeper in EverQuest? Like that -- maybe a way to actually win the game, make the developers scramble to change the world fast enough so that it visually looks like what the players have socially created...
I've actually had some pretty bad experiences in MUDs. The MUD that was technically the most like AlphaWorlds, one which allowed users the same level of freedom of the original designers, except that you can only attach your stuff to public objects or stuff you own (you can only add a room to a door that you've claimed as yours).... It was a reasonable system, though understandably not too flexible, but the community sucked. People just used it for chat. They claimed it was better than a normal chat because of the "props", but the whole experience there was nothing more than what a
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I always compared MUDs to books, and MMORPGs and stuff to movies. Book leave things to your imagination. A dragon there is a *huge* fearsome creature.. You're bent over the keyboard, reading the text, going north and back south immediately to have a quick glimpse.. your imagination does it for you.
I can't help but feel not bound to the MMORPG characters.. it's just a few pixels on a screen.. it's like pacman for me. It's not me, and if it died, *I* didn't die. My remote control midieval guy did.
And just as when you read a book and then see a movie and are dissapointed because you imagined it all differentely, I am dissapointed at the graphical stuff. Maybe I should try a massive first person online roleplaying game or so. Any suggestions?