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Impact of Daylight Savings Time Changes?
jason718 writes "With the pending changes to U.S. Daylight Savings Time, what impact will those changes have to existing systems and their applications? Are some operating systems more open than others with regard to the configuration of Daylight Savings Time start and end dates, or will we need yet another update or patch to modify the internal calendar?"
With over 800 comments, I thought that's enough to get an idea of its impact and suggestions to deal with it.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Are some operating systems more open than others with regard to the configuration of Daylight Savings Time start and end dates, or will we need yet another update or patch to modify the internal calendar?
Wouldn't a patch for this sort of thing require all of 10 seconds to make?
The sleep patterns of Slashdotters will be messed up... Oh, wait a minute...
Cause more dupes.
I live in Arizona, you insensitive clod!
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
This seems like it is going to be a great deal of trouble. Although most software will be fairly easily patched, it still seems like a hastle. People will inevitably forget to patch, and different will be handling time differently.
Voice your opinion!
Did someone turn the clock back to the discussion we already had on this issue?
Right...
Unfortunately, due to inconsistent implementation of Daylight Savings, an erroneous timestamp will cause the system to place this post significantly further down the list. Rest assured, though, that this post was made an hour before the timestamp shows, and was, therefore, first.
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
You'll need an update to /usr/share/zoneinfo/ . Expect the next Debian release in late 2012 to support this.
They'll just think it's the wrong time. Makes no difference to DVD players. Important for clocks, but these can be set manually twice a year.
Few devices adjust for DST. To my knowledge, only computers do this. And that can be turned off and done manually if need be.
...but don't worry. Daylight Savings Pwnage is a common occurrence, within and without Slashdot.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
* May vary dependig on your location, only applies outside of the USA.
#include "coucou.h"
(Until we follow you guys)
We've always been at war with Eurasia.
One reason to stay out of Hawaii: Electricity is expensive as hell.
Let me just look around my room here... My TV does. So does my VCR. There are lots of things out there besides 'computers' that adjust for DST. Certainly my TV and VCR aren't 'patchable' to changes to when the time changes occur.
I hae no idea why Congress thinks this thing will svae oil. Back when DST was invented, it was understandable. Now, we're different. Now we have people who work at any time during the span of 24 hours. We have 24 hour stores and there's more activity at night now then ever before. I bet that the existing DST does nothing to save oil now at this point. Sure, it's nice to have those extra daylight hours and what not but is it worth causing untold number of devices (regular desktops and servers will be fine, but it's the embedded stuff that is the problem now). Changing it now would not make a difference in oil usage.
Gorkman
The absurdity of fooling yourself by changing the clocks (not really unlike those that set their alarm clock fast so they are never late) reminds me of a former coworker, who came in later to work every day. One day he came in as we were leaving for lunch. Soon he came in on a Friday as we were all leaving for happy hour. Eventually he "lapped" himself and started coming in so late it was early the next morning, and eventually he came in at a normal start time of 8:00 or so. Of course, the trend continued and he just started coming in later again.
Upton noted that the extension means daylight-saving time will continue through Halloween, adding to safety. "Kids across the nation will soon rejoice," said Upton, because they'll have another hour of daylight trick-or-treating.
:)
This is the silliest reason I've ever heard of. Energy consumption I can understand if the facts support that it will really make a difference.
Here in northern Michigan for our family at least we always wait for it to get dark before we go out. Maybe it's like having snow for Christmas, but it's doesn't seem like Halloween would be the same when you can see just how cheap all the costumes and decorations really are.
Also how would this affect livestock? How do they know what time it is? If daylight savings time is so great, why revert at all why not just move it forward the whole year and let Indiana print their own TV Guides.
Maybe we should start boycotting all /. dupes in an effort to bring attention to this pressing matter.
Err... wait.
Nothing disturbs me more than blind loyalism towards some unrealistic and over-idealistic notion of one's nationality.
Many of the packages are expecting the 1st Saturday/Sunday in April to have 23 hours and the last Saturday/Sunday in October to have 25 hours.
Do you really want the power grid to put into production a patch that hasn't been tested for many months ? ( Or do you want blackouts, or the cost to quadruple ? )
UPS Sucks
An article from Colorado's legislature suggests that the primary complaint from farmers is that "most agricultural activities are based on daylight hours as opposed to clock hours, and crops and livestock maintain their schedules regardless of the time reflected on the clock."
Because the farmers and their families would still have to work with their product during certain margins of the day to accomdate the plants, they would have to readjust their schedules to do non-farm things like shop for food, meet with a bank, etc.
In the case of agribusiness, they would have to readjust the schedules of their employees.
Next thing you know Bush will make us use a calandar based on how many days it has been since Jesus died. That would be absurd.
It's be simple to implement: day = oldDay + jesus.lifespan()
Except when you get the compile-time error: ERROR: jesus is not defined
It's Daylight Saving Time, not Daylight Savings Time.
As long the operating system can handle both local time and Coordinated Universal Time, it should not be any problem. If the program saves every time in UTC, and when displayed, convert it to local time, the user should not need to be worried. As a European citizen we all have DST, and we manage easly, so why shouldn't those in the US manage too?
------- In the end there are no begining
My TV does. So does my VCR
Don't these use the time code encoded in the VBI in TV broadcasts?
http://www.standardtime.com/proposal.shtml Check out the proposed replacement for daylight saving time, which also shrinks the number of timezones in the continental US from 4 to 2. It seems to make a lot more sense overall than what we have now...
But how will I find an update for my gremlin? Will I have to be careful not to feed him after 11 for a few weeks? It's all so confusing!
Posted from the wireless couch.
Of course, the countries of the world that do change their clocks don't change their clocks at the same time. The EU starts DST on the last Sunday of March whereas we (currently) start ours on the first Sunday of April. Currently, we both end ours on the last Sunday of October.
If we're going to change how we handle DST, I'd recommend that we match the EU. I know that the idea of following the EU's lead is anathema to many of us, but hey, it's a small sacrifice and shows that we're willing to make compromises every so often.
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Sheesh.
Ok, let's take as a given that Peak Oil has already passed, just for the sake of argument.
All that this means is that crude oil pumped from the ground will continue to become more expensive. Not in great leaps and bounds, but at a relatively steady pace.
As crude oil becomes more expensive, alternate fuels become relatively less expensive. Sooner rather than later we'll see both synthetic crude (from farm waste, of all things) and expanded hydrogen trade.
In a hundred years, we won't be back to hand-working on farms. We'll have a bunch of telecommuters working the same networked jobs they all want to work now, and the same green revolution farms, only the tractors will use more electric motors and less internal combustion.
Is Peak Oil going to give us change? Yes. It is going to cause a capitalist apocolypse? No, not really. We did rather well before gasoline, and we'll do farily well long after it's gone.
>>would think that it would take the Evil Empire about 30 seconds to distribute a patch for Windows,
Hey, here's a new conspiracy theory! Maybe this is all a scheme by MS. They'll patch it, but only for Windows 2003 and newer systems, in an attempt to force everyone to upgrade. Pure brilliance, I say!
(Why not, they seem to think people will upgrade for IE7.)
Microsoft has just released their much anticipated hands-free cordless mouse. Warning, it may hurt a little at first.
Tar sands in Alberta require huge gas inputs making it barely worthwhile from the energy standpoint. The Energy Recovered to Energy Invested ratio for tar sands is only 1.5 (for comparison the Saudi light sweet crude has a ratio of 30). As far as shale oil goes the ratio is less than 1.0 making it an excercise in futility at best and a moronic waste of remaining energy at worst.
Fusion power is nowhere near ready to replace our existing reserves and it remains a high risk venture. Cold Fusion hasn't happen and most likely won't while Hot Fusion is yet to yield a positive Energy Recovered to Energy Invested ratio. In other words Fusion Power currently consumes more energy than it generates.
We're good. But we're not THAT good. Yet. There is a very good chance we will have a long and significant readjustment period that will be very hard on ravenous oil consumers such as the USA.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
Cisco devices, both IOS and CatOS based, use the 'summertime' command to compensate for daylight saving time (example [cisco.com]). This means that a change in the DST setup would force you to upgrade code.
Or at least it would force you to study the command reference a bit better, and find the second optional form of the command that allows you to specify the beginning and end of summertime.
That would mean you require only a configuration change, and not a code upgrade.
But of course you would need to read the manual...
I turned my clock back a half hour... I'll never need to change it.
Well, the radio signal does not include DST information; that's a "client-side" feature of the clock itself. Most clocks allow you to configure which time zone offset you wish, as well as to specify whether you want the clock to observe DST during the appropriate time of the year.
And therein lies the problem!
I can't exactly "patch" my clocks/watches with an update to handle this absurdity. These aren't exactly field-upgradable. If this goes through, rather than being zero maintenance, each of these timepieces will need to be adjusted 4 times per year!
(Yes--four--go count if you don't believe me: once to compensate for DST starting before the device thinks it should; again to un-compensate upon the traditional DST start; once more to compensate upon the traditional DST end; and finally yet again to un-compensate for the real end of DST.)
So count me as one, I certainly care!
Relax -- your investment in atomic clocks (really radio-controlled) is safe :) They get DST from the master clock already.
All of the radio-controlled or "atomic" clocks work on the same idea -- they receive a time signal from a low-frequency transmitter (60kHz in the US). The device will typically set an internal quartz clock from the received time code. The time reference signal is strongest at night, so it's typical for these clocks to set themselves at 2 or 3 am (local time). Some newer designs will set whenever the signal strength is high enough for a good read. This redundancy makes for a very reliable device.
The time code contains, among other things, a flag indicating whether DST is in effect. So -- when (if?) this change to the DST rules goes into effect, the folks who run the transmitter will change the flag at the proper moment, and the next time your clock reads the signal, et viola! it reads DST.
The radio station broadcasting the time code in the US is WWVB, and it is managed by NIST. The WWBV system is really an elegant design, involving a wonderful mixture of old and new technology. Check it out:
http://tf.nist.gov/stations/wwvb.htm
By the way, there are 4 other time zones east of US Eastern. The Atlantic time zone, for example applies in Nova Scotia. There are also similar time reference broadcasts in the EU, Russia, and Australia. There might also be one in China - but I've never needed to look that one up. I'm sure that will change one day soon.
Fission energy (ie. uranium) will peak just like oil.
What's the timeframe for that if fast breeder reactors are used?
Since I can have an extra hour of light at the end of the work day. That means I can get out on my bike and get some miles in before dark. And before you fuckers suggest that I go in to work an hour earlier, I must tell you that I cannot. I work in television, and programming doesn't shift with DST. If something airs at 3pm, it airs at 3pm.
There is literally HUNDREDS of years of coal AND natural gas in the ground not 150 miles from where I am sitting.
Natural Gas production in the US has NOT peaked and NEITHER has coal production.
We have options, messy ones maybe, but we do have them.
This could be good for our energy situation 'cuz that extra hour of sun each day will let us produce more corn, which we can turn into ethanol.
--
watch funny commercials
AMEN TO THAT, Seriously.
Who the fuck cares if youo get up at 0700 EST or 1500 Zulu? Its exactly the same damn time. My mother wouldnt have to do timezonemath every time she tried to figure out when to call me.
Want extra daylight hours of business? Open an hour later and stay open an hour longer, stupido.
Don't even get me going on the fucking 12 hour/24 hour clocks. 24 hour makes sense, but your average 'merikan thinks of it like is the "mindbendingly complex metric system."
s'wut i sed.
It is only a couple of decades before uranium peaks if we start replacing oil with it (in whatever form). Breeder reactors would double that time frame. However, the energy required to build and operate those nuclear stations can't be ignored and may shave quite a bit off that timeframe.
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
There may be quite valid reasons to dislike U.S. (foreign) policy, but this is really an internal issue. If the majority of the U.S. population suddenly decided to scrap any celebration of Christmas or any other somewhat coinciding or similar holiday, that would sure as hell affect export industries with some U.S. interest more. Just like Firefox gaining marketshare among U.S. users affect everyone, no matter where you're situated, who has been an "IE only" dumbass. You're not forced into anything. Not this time, at least.
The complete corpus of Josephus regarding Jesus: "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." -- Antiquities, ch. 18 Another version reads as follows: "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders." This version was preserved in Arabic--much like most Greek philosophy currently known to us. To be more relevant to the grandparent, you can't call a method on an object before defining the method. And in this case, you can't call the method before the object is defined.
In fact, timezones themselves are stupid.
Everyone should be on UTC.
Who said that local Noon should be when the Sun is directly above our heads?
In fact, with time zones, the Sun can be directly above your head anywhere in the range between 1130 and 1230 (or even earlier/later, because time zones are not strictly longitudinal), and DST can increase the range even further.
In the "old days", each town/city had its own time zone, synchronized to local Noon.
The railroads were largely resposible for our current system of hourly time zones.
There are places on Earth today that don't follow the hourly convention, and are one-half, or even one-quarter, of an hour "off" the conventional system.
Why does the local day have to change when the Sun is on the other side of the Earth?
I could kind of understand this back in the "old days", when everyone went to bed at sunset, but in our increasingly 24-hour society, in makes much less sense.
What detrimental effects would there be if the day changed from Monday to Tuesday when it was light out?
When everything is open 24 hours anyway, I doubt that there would be very many.
Note that I don't mean that kids should be going to school in the middle of the night, etc.
In some locales, kids would go to school at 1100 UTC, in others, at 1700 UTC.
Note that they do this already; it's just that 1700 UTC may be 9 AM local time.
People's schedules wouldn't necessarily change vis a vis daylight and nighttime; only the time measurement would change.
If everyone used UTC, communications across time zones would be much easier.
(No more "Is that 10 AM East coast time, or 10 AM West Coast time?".)
People wouldn't have to reset their watches every time they visted Aunt Mabel in the next state over.
The International Dateline would disappear.
Oh, and since we would be doing such a massive change anyway, this would be the perfect opportunity to decimalize time (and it's about time that we decimalized time).
Just think: With decimalized time, most people would be working only 3.3 hours a day!
(On the down side, whenever anyone said "Just a minute!" or "Just a sec!", you would have to wait longer.)
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
I'm all for simplifying baroque systems, but this doesn't seems like it would help that much. If, as you said, people would still get up in the morning and go to sleep at night, schedules would still be different everywhere, they would just be mapped to different numbers.
If I wanted to communicate with someone in europe from the West coast, I would know that since it's 800 UTC here, it's 800 UTC there, but the significance of that number itself would lose meaning. So what if it's 800 UTC? Does that mean the sun's up there? Would they be eating dinner?
In order to keep track of what 800 UTC means in different regions, we'd have to come up with a system of "zones" which could tell us approximately where the sun was in each region at a given UTC time, so that we'd know when it was okay to call, or whether they'd be doing business at 800 UTC.
Maybe we could call this system "time zones", or something. Though I like "chrono-differential sectors" better.