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Mac OS X Intel Kernel Uses DRM

An anonymous reader submits "Several people have discovered that the new Intel kernel Apple has included with the Developer Kit DVD uses TCPA/TPM DRM. More specifically, it includes "a TCPA/Palladium implementation that uses a Infineon 1.1 chip which will prevent certain parts of the OS from working unless authorized."

118 of 1,399 comments (clear)

  1. Damn Microsoft! by Geekenstein · · Score: 5, Funny

    I hate those bastards! I knew they were going to try and sneak this crap past us! They were plo...oh wait, did you say Apple?

    Wow! Spectacular use of technology Steve! You're my hero!

    1. Re:Damn Microsoft! by gordgekko · · Score: 5, Funny

      The DRM makes the OS runs snappier!

      --
      You want to know who isn't running Firefox 2.x? They spell it "definately" and "rediculous".
    2. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Baricom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My whole plan was to switch away from Microsoft to Apple due to the (relatively) benign copy protection in OS X and other products.

      I may have to rethink that strategy now.

      (And no, don't say Linux - I don't have enough time to learn it well enough to use it as a desktop machine on a daily basis.)

    3. Re:Damn Microsoft! by KillShill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      nah don't worry about switching. all commercial vendors of os's will use drm. so strap yourself in, enjoy your new found freedom; the freedom to know you can't do anything about it.

      there just won't be a public backlash this time. it'll creep in slowly.

      how to make amphibians edible through the use of high temperature h2o.

      the GNU philopsophy will save us all... if it weren't for the fact that they are a bunch of pinko terrorists.

      not that i'm saying we should give up by any means except that i just don't see this going away like the BS "test the waters" cpu serial # scandal a few years ago.

      so many companies have invested heavily in digital -end user handcuffs that it's very improbable that they will give up easily. and the media certainly won't be telling the public anything negative, that much you can count on.

      i would like to donate to the eff, except i don't want to be put on a list of terrorists. the only way to even have a remote chance of beating this nonsense (criminal and unethical behavior) is to educate the public at a greater rate than the "mainstream media" can "educate" them.

      --
      Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
    4. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Buran · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Erm, I don't think this is quite what you think. Apple already doesn't treat customers like scum the way Microsoft does (which I appreciate; I'm honest, but I don't like the assumption that I am not). I think this is just Apple's already-known plans to prevent the OS from not running on anything they haven't sold as a Mac. In other words, you have to buy a computer from Apple to run their OS. Which makes sense -- Apple is a hardware company primarily and makes its money mostly from the computer sales.

    5. Re:Damn Microsoft! by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      (And no, don't say Linux - I don't have enough time to learn it well enough to use it as a desktop machine on a daily basis.)

      Isn't that the best way to learn? Using it on a daily basis.

      I won't say Linux because, despite the vast improvements the last years, it takes some patience.

      But if you'd rather take it as they (MS, Apple) hand it to you by all means. Just don't complain that there aren't alternatives... As the old saying - the cost of freedom isn't free.

    6. Re:Damn Microsoft! by KillShill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the copyright infringers didn't put the DRM in the machines. trying to prevent people from copying on a computer is like preventing fish from getting wet.

      you'll more than likely piss off the users/fish far more than you'll prevent copying.

      but that's not even relevant to this issue.

      how is paying for mac os x and installing it on an x86 computer you already own, copyright infringement? paying for the software obviously means that the vendor has complete control over what you do with it.

      it's a sad world we live in... because we're all responsible for our ills, in one way or another.

      --
      Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
    7. Re:Damn Microsoft! by mOdQuArK! · · Score: 4, Insightful
      you have to admit that if people weren't pirating things, there'd be no need for DRM.

      Nah, if "content providers" weren't such greedy bloodsucking parasites, then there'd be no need for DRM.

      how can you blame companies for trying to protect their profits when thousands of people are ripping them off every day?

      Because those companies didn't actually EARN those profits by providing a desired good or service at a price that buyers were willing to pay? Like what would happen in a _real_ capitalistic market instead of a government-mandated one.

    8. Re:Damn Microsoft! by xenocide2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      On the other hand, Apple treats developers somewhere between equally bad as MS and worse. Think of all the nifty features in OSX, and most of them started life as third party products that Apple decided to reimplement and give away with the next version of OSX. At least Microsoft has the benevolence of buying somebody out for their new features.

      The only real reason Apple doesn't have to treat its customers like thieves is that you already paid them through your own asshole for the hardware. I'm not sure what else the Infineon chip is good for aside from preventing operating systems not on the Palladium congress from running.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

    9. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know... as much as it sucks, you have to admit that if people weren't pirating things, there'd be no need for DRM.

      That's the same way I feel when a cop wants to search me illegally or otherwise hassles me. Or when my employer wants to make me take a drug test even though I don't even so much as smoke cigerettes or drink alchohol and my job involves me sitting at a desk reading and writing things of little consequence.

      Yep. I just think to myself "This sucks, but I don't need to be angry at the police or employers for violating my rights or my privacy. I need to be angry at the weekend pot smokers who make it necessary for people to infringe on my privacy or violate my constitutional rights".

      And when the cops shoot a black man for having a candybar in his pocket or shoot an unarmed non violent black man four dozen times at close range, I just think "It sucks, but if black people weren't out there killing every person they come across, these police wouldn't have to senselessly murder any of them".

      Seriously man... Get real.

    10. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Drakino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ugg. How many times does it have to be said?

      THESE ARE DEVELOPER MACHINES AND DO NOT REPRESENT HARDWARE THAT APPLE WILL SHIP.

      There. Apple has said many times they don't plan on using a BIOS in the shipping products, and have hinted at EFI. But the first developer machines have a BIOS, so everyone ignores Apple and assumes it will have a BIOS. Apple has a huge investment in driving forward with 64bit with all the marketing they have done, and yet everyone expects PowerMacs with the same Pentium chips in the developer machines that aren't 64 bit.

      Nowthis DRM thing comes up. Will Apple do similar in shipping hardware? It's hard to say. But right now, noone here can say yes or no for sure (unless your sitting at Apple's HQ working on the new products right now). I myself wouldn't be suprised if they do indeed put some kind of protection on, as the Mac OS has always had some kind of odd hardware requirement that prevents it from easially just running on a clone PowerPC box.

      Just settle down and wait until real products ship. Because if you have OS X 10.4.1 for Intel, you either have the hardware to run it on due to your developer program, or you pirated the ISO image off some torrent site and have it illegially.

      Yeah, sure, OS X will probably be runnable on a non Apple box some day. But guess what, it's likely to be a hacked up solution that kinda sorta works, and leaves you wasting time that could have been spent earning money to just buy a $500 Mac Mini. For me, my Apple hardware is a big reason I moved to OS X. Running OS X on my Dell just wouldn't be the same.

    11. Re:Damn Microsoft! by themoodykid · · Score: 3, Funny

      I don't care how snappy it is. If your OS is having the "runs", you've got bigger issues.

    12. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Quixote · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You know... as much as it sucks, you have to admit that if people weren't pirating things, there'd be no need for DRM.

      This is laughable, to say the least. Companies want DRM not because of rampant piracy, but because the technology is advancing so fast, they can't predict where the future lies; and they want to be able to make money regardless of which way the technology turns.

      Tell me something: is photocopying of books (by poor students, usually) not piracy? Then why don't copier makers have DRM? Where's the DRM for FM radio? People used to make copies of broadcast songs quite rampantly.

      Any fool who thinks DRM is about "stopping piracy" is nothing but a pure fool who's had too much Koolaid.

    13. Re:Damn Microsoft! by falkryn · · Score: 2, Informative

      Uh, dude, it's not 1999. Most respectable distros do all for you now anyhow (detect your vid card, sound, etc.) You might only get in a little trouble if your hardware is say a month or two old. And yes, laptops can be more annoying. Really, I find at this point linux hardware detection to be far better than windows (for the simple reason that the last installment of a consumer windows is rather old at this point.)

      Case in point, I have this dell d610 latitude here I'm borriwing. On it I have windows XP pro, and SUSE 9.3. I cleaned installed windows, but unfortunately did not have the dell resource cd. That meant having to go to dell's site, pick and manually install the missing drivers. One problem being though that one of the missing drivers was the NIC. Another problem being that because the laptop was non-US, I couldn't get the specific hardware components of the model based on my serial, so the list included a lot of extraneous drivers I didn't know whether I needed or not.

      Solution? Boot into SUSE, which worked out of the box, including wireless, check my hardware specs, download the right drivers to a shared FAT32 partition, and now Windows is happy...

      Granted desktop Linux is _not_ perfect, but seriously the situation you describe is from a largely bygone past. (unless you're a sadist, and want to run some uber-l337 do it yourself distro to prove how awesome and c00l you think you are ;-)

    14. Re:Damn Microsoft! by seanadams.com · · Score: 4, Funny

      The only real reason Apple doesn't have to treat its customers like thieves is that you already paid them through your own asshole for the hardware.

      That bit in your contract about the "per anum" fee may have been a typo.

      I'm an Apple user, and I've always paid through the nose...

    15. Re:Damn Microsoft! by identity0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of one of the new Macs (a 1.6terahz G6 w/256 Gigs of RAM and OS X Manx) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 700 Meg rip of Braveheart from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. And there's a popup screen telling me "Don't Steal Movies" the entire time.

      At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

    16. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ugg. How many times does it have to be said?

      THESE ARE DEVELOPER MACHINES AND DO NOT REPRESENT HARDWARE THAT APPLE WILL SHIP.

      There's a word for people like you: a useful idiot.

      Sure, Apple has coded up this DRM implementation for fun and has no intention of using it. Apple and Jobs has sold you out... get over it. They jumped to Intel to get this Trusted Computing stuff and now they are using it.

      You can put your hands over your ears and sing lalalalalala, but it won't change anything. The message that has to go out from here is simple and the same one that should go out to any software/hardware company that involves itself with this anti-customer bullshit: Don't buy Apple. If their sales drop because of this action, then perhaps they'll listen... but if idiots like you continue to defend their actions with ever more ludicrous excuses that won't happen.

    17. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Sj0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey, I don't shop at stores that force me to leave my bag at the door either.

      companies that want to treat me like a criminal by default can munch my taint.

      --
      It's been a long time.
    18. Re:Damn Microsoft! by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a license to use the software that has caveats/rules attached, and you agree to them, then you live by them (unless you are as unethical as some of the big software companies seem to be sometimes). If the license say that you can only use the OS software on a machine exclusively manufactured by Mac, and you agree to the license, then too bad, so sad, that is what you agree too. And if the result of you not accepting the agreement is that you can't use the software (the OS), you can use a different OS. There are serveral out there now.

      This is business. Mac spent the time and money to develop a pretty decent OS (by all accounts) to run specifically on a given platform. They probably don't want it getting a bad name by not running correctly when people try to run it on other platforms it wasn't optimized for.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    19. Re:Damn Microsoft! by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You pay just as much or more in the end trying to secure a Windows machine properly.

      Total additional cost "securing" my Windows machines: $0.

      And I don't see Apple hacking its OS so thirdparty stuff won't run [...]

      I don't see Microsoft doing it either.

      You can also uninstall anything you want to remove [...]

      Try removing every trace of Quicktime from OS X and see how well everything works. I suggest you back up first.

    20. Re:Damn Microsoft! by RenatoRam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      but as to the drug testing, unless you did not agree to such a thing when you started your job, well, it's kind of like having to deal with a Non-Compete clause. You agreed to it.

      I don't know... in more civilized law systems some rights are upheld EVEN if you signed them away.

      That's why they are called "unalienable", you know.

      --
      Ciao, Renato
    21. Re:Damn Microsoft! by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except for the vast bulk of legitimate users it doesn't, because so few of them upgrade their computers at all, let alone enough to trigger any reactivation sequence.

      Are you kidding? Legitimate users are the only ones it interferes with. Pirates just use Corporate Edition and don't deal with all that bullshit.

      Hell, I know lots of people who own XP because it came with their computer, and they still wipe it and throw a copy of corporate on there because the product activation/windows update bullshit screws up their system from time to time.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    22. Re:Damn Microsoft! by identity0 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It looks like some people don't know a classic Slashdot joke when they see one.

      Don't they teach you new whippersnappers anything these days? Or do I have to explain the origin of the "No wireless. Less capacity than a Nomad. Lame." and the "and then it was like, beep beep beep..." joke to you, as well? :)

    23. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IT was proved that what happened to Opera was a mistake, not malicious activity. The CSS used was to fix a bug in the rendering of the page on an older version of Opera, it just happens that it was fixed in the release and it came to light within a couple of days. MS fixed it, move on. Im sure any webdevelopers has had pages break after a browser upgrade.

    24. Re:Damn Microsoft! by unigolyn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blah blah Konfabulator blah.

      Apple did NOT rip off Konfabulator. Arlo Rose labors under the delusion that he invented desktop widgets, which he did not. DesktopX was out years before Konfabulator was even conceived.

      Now, what other features did Apple rip off hapless developers? Spotlight? Exposé? The dock? The Finder?

    25. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Greg_D · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ah, but here's my experience: for the past year, I used Linux as a desktop exclusively, mostly because of all the programming tools. I've bounced around between them.. starting with Fedora Core 3, then to SuSE, then Ubuntu Warty, then Fedora Core 3 for x86_64, then to Ubuntu Hoary, then to Fedora Core 4, then to Mepis, back to Ubuntu, back to Mepis.

      Why was I doing this bouncing? The repositories all blow. That's right, ALL of them. They're nice on getting some things to work, but if you're stuck in any one of their repositories, then you might as well be stuck in the mud, because either they'll have software on the repository that needs software that isn't, or the software on the repository will be so woefully out of date that other flavors of the same parent distro have passed you by a long time ago in one way or another. And depending on which library you need to replace, replacing one with a newer binary might totally screw up your existing configuration.

      And the help... the Mepis guys tell ya that if you need help to go to the IRC channel... so I do... because Streamtuner and xmms weren't working together after an install and an update from the repository. I ask how I can fix it, they tell me to ditch xmms and use RealPlayer, which works, but then Realplayer totally ignores my volume settings in KDE. This kind of crap is commonplace.

      Then there's the issue of speed. Speed of booting is faster in Windows by a factor of 10. Speed of loading up a program is much faster as well. I repartitioned my drive and put Win XP back on, and was shocked at how fast it was. No more waiting 5-10 seconds for firefox to load. Even with all the shell extensions I slapped onto Windows to make it closer to the KDE and Gnome desktops I was accustomed to, it's still much faster. And sure, using something like Blackbox would cut down on time... a bit... in Linux, but Blackbox is a window manager, and I want a desktop environment that is pleasing to the eye and non-annoying. I have transparency, drop shadows, window shading, an objectbar, konfabulator, and multiple other programs running, and nothing was harder to install than by downloading a file and double clicking an icon. My desktop still runs faster and smoother, and the only thing I'm missing in Windows is good ole kill -9. And the only thing I needed to download extra libraries for was... the Gimp.

      Sure, Linux does a better job with some things, like having the latest drivers with the latest distro, but most copies of Windows are OEMs that come with machines with the drivers pre-loaded. Files in the repository ARE easier to get to than having to go to a bunch of websites to download them for Windows. The desktop is more configurable without having to replace system files to do it.

      However, Linux right now is just not even in the same galaxy as Windows or OSX when it comes to giving a user what they need to be productive with minimum hassle, and the people who have the organizational power and clout to make it into something that can compete refuse to do so. Why? Dunno. Maybe because they deal with so many other geeks who use the same desktops and configure the same files everyday that they never have the time or the care to deal with the issues making Linux a lame duck in the race. I'd love to scrap Windows, OSX, and any other OS that requires DRM. After all, I did it once before, but until I see some improvement that puts Linux's desktop in the same realm as the other two, I'm sticking with Windows and will relegate my Mepis partition to tinkering. And lemme tell you, it was a pain in the butt to shift files from ReiserFS to FAT32 to NFTS until I was able to clear a drive to reformat the ReiserFS to NTFS and then move them all back again... twice.

    26. Re:Damn Microsoft! by FireFury03 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know... as much as it sucks, you have to admit that if people weren't pirating things, there'd be no need for DRM.

      Honestly, how can you blame companies for trying to protect their profits when thousands of people are ripping them off every day?


      Instead of just blindly saying "pirates are bad" and then handcuffing everyone, even the law abiding people who make them money, they should examin _why_ people pirate. Obviously there is the "pay vs. free" thing, but there are other factors for why people pirate stuff.

      A lot of piracy is at least partly down to the pirated material being "better" than the originals in many ways - take TV shows for example. Why do people download them from torrents instead of watching them on TV? Certainly for me, the reason for doing it is that I have to wait well over 3 months after the original air-date for most stuff to get shown here in the UK. I.e. the illegal distribution method is a lot better than the legal one.

      Another example: I buy music CDs. Once I have bought them then they get ripped to MP3 so I can easilly get at the music without sorting through stacks of CDs and the CDs themselves only get used on my personal CD player and in the car. So if I buy a CD that's "copy protected" which won't let me do this, it's useless to me, whereas the MP3s of the same CD I can download work fine. I.e. the illegal copies allow me to do what I need (and should be able to do with something I've legally bought), and thus are "better".

      A large proportion of people _want_ the legal version of something, but they're not going to buy it if the illegal version is so much better. The producers should look at this and rather than stamping out the illegal competition through restrictions they should improve their own systems so that they "outcompete" the illegal stuff.

    27. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't kid yourself. DRM is only partially about preventing copyright infringement.
      A major part of it, perhaps THE major part of it is about creating new business models by eliminating the ability of users to use their fair-use rights.

      For example, most cable HD boxes have DVI connectors that are NOT compatible with the DVI inputs on computer monitors... instead of being able to use your PC monitor as a HDTV.

      Why? Because they don't want people using their PCs as video recorders even though people have every legal right to do so.

      Why? Because they want you to use THEIR PVRs, for which you have to pay a monthly fee.

      DRM methods are always being broken, yet the industry still insists on them. Are they stupid? No. They absolutely know that so-called "pirates" will easily find a way around it.

      DRM will only stop the people who are NOT interested in copyright infringement... the casual consumers trying to use their fair-use rights, fair-use rights that the industry fought against and hates...

      DRM is really intended to extract more money for the everyday user... the industry wants a pay-per-view society.

      --
      This space available.
    28. Re:Damn Microsoft! by bersl2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously. Donate, grandparent poster.

      We'll both get dragged away by the Gestapo. Together. Like old times. It'll be fun!

      OK, maybe that was a little bit over the top. But you get the point: if that is your reason for not donating, then the terrorists^Wpoliticians have already won.

    29. Re:Damn Microsoft! by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, unless you believe the doctrine of first sale applies. I don't "license" my computer; I buy it. Any information on it or with it is mine just like the hardware is, because I never agreed to any kind of license at the time of purchase.

      And before you try to tell me "but that's not how it works," I say fuck "how it works." The scum who think up these fake "licenses" can cram them up their ass! They can claim that EULAs exist and are valid all they want, but it doesn't make it true.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    30. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Ravenn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ... we're all responsible for our ills, in one way or another.

      No, I'm being held responsible for someone else's ills. That's the bit that gets to me. I'm being presumed guilty before I even buy a computer, and therefore restricted in the use of my own property.

      I have to deal with speed limits being lowered to deal with idiots who speed, bag searches at supermarkets because of idiots who shoplift, and even more intensive screenings at airports because of morons who want to use innocents for their own personal socio-political stupidity. Now I'm also being restricted in my personal hobby interest and profession?

      I think I'll be sticking to Linux, where groups like Debian will remove software because it comes under a license that's too restrictive.

      --
      Of all the things you can accomplish by screwing up your face and swearing into a dark room, sleep is not one of them.
    31. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Ash-Fox · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually such technology does exist, as there was for a time 'anti-photocopy' school books being sold in Poland, however due to the huge increase in costs in the school books, teachers, school educators went a long with alternative books that didn't have this protection.

      So.. They (the publishers) stopped using the technology since it was too expensive and not making money.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    32. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Thomas+Miconi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Think of all the nifty features in OSX, and most of them started life as third party products that Apple decided to reimplement and give away with the next version of OSX

      Yeah, Heaven forbid that innovative software could actually be reimplemented by third parties and offered for free to consumers. I mean, next thing you know they might actually make a whole OS by taking ideas here and there and start offering it for free ! Imagine the havoc on poor little OS developers worldwide !

      Good thing that our modern democracies have invented software patents, so we can prevent such a catastrophe from ever happening....

      </sarcasm>

      Thomas -

    33. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Mocenigo · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The message that has to go out from here is simple and the same one that should go out to any software/hardware company that involves itself with this anti-customer bullshit: Don't buy Apple.

      There's no doubt that the poster you are replying to has missed something. But it seems to me that you also miss something. Apple is a hardware manifacturer. Why should you be able to buy Apple's OS and run it on other hardware, if it is NOT intended for that use? It is not like having an obscure data format for your data, a la Microsoft. It is not giving up the right of accessing your data the way you want. Apple is a hardware manifacturer and they have an OS for their hardware. The OS is there to drive customers to their hardware. Only a part of the development costs comes from OS sales, the bulk of their money comes from hardware.

      Now, you would like to have Apple continue to develop their OS but you want to strip them of their main income source by allowing the OS to be installed on non-Apple hardware. It seems to me that the word ``idiot'' can at this point applied also to you, not as an insult, but in the ethimologic meaning: from the greek ``that cannot see'' (i-diot, then the word entered latin, old french, and finally came to english).

      You propose to boycott Apple until they agree to give up on income, so that you can use their products in a way they are not envisioned. Sure, bankrupt firms develop their software actively...

      Learn programming and start contributing to GNOME development instead, and do not complain, please, if Apple has some features you are not able to implement...

    34. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Infernal+Device · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You missed the point - he was speaking ironically.

      No one group deserves more Constitutional Rights than anyone else under any circumstances. We're all supposed to be equal under the law. It's just that we've set up a system where some people are more equal and others are less equal.

      I consider drug tests and drm and all the other assorted crap to be punishment for someone else's inability to control their own urges in a manner that's socially responsible. Actually, it's way more complicated than that, because I don't consider pot smokers to be all that harmful to society, in general.

      Nonetheless, we keep getting saddled with the stupid laws because someone in Washington gets their dander up when some well-funded "public interest group" pays them to and it occurs no matter which side of the political fence our "honorable" representatives take, because a) the public has limited understanding, b) it looks and sounds good, or c) it's for the children.

      Sorry, started ranting.

      Washington has become divorced from reality in a very real way. Most of our Representatives and Senators can't connect with the people they're affecting beyond any superficial manner, regardless of their personal wealth. It may not even be possible, considering the number of people they're supposed to be representing. The only thing they're sure of connecting with are fat checkbooks and sleazy fuckers like RIAA or TCPA, who have a vested interest in limiting the rights of consumers.

      --
      "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    35. Re:Damn Microsoft! by grahamtriggs · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not always... they bought iTunes for instance.

      I think you have to accept that in some cases, the product they are imitating wasn't done all that well, or their prefered implementation is that much closer to the OS, or may be affected by long term strategy (think Intel switch), that it may have seemed an easier alternative to just implement from scratch.

    36. Re:Damn Microsoft! by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No person is an island. All the benefits of all human endeavour belong to all of humanity.

      If I write a piece of software which can improve someone else's lot, I have a duty to the rest of the world to make that software available to them. If that means I can't sit on my arse all day making money just selling that programme, then so be it.

      If you light your {unlit} candle from my {lit} one, does my room get any darker? Will my candle last any less long? I have lost nothing, you have gained something. So it goes with computer software. The effort in replicating software already written is comparable to the effort in sticking the end of a wick in a flame. Yes, somebody wrote that software in the first place; but they were going to write it anyway, whether or not anybody paid them for a copy. I lit that candle {which, by the way, was a non-trivial effort involving a flint and steel, tinder and kindling -- matches have not been invented in this figure of speech} because it was dark, not because I thought I could make money charging people for a light. How could there be anything fair or right about denying someone something which would cost me nothing to do, knowing that but for me they might fall in the dark with an unlit candle in the house?

      Somewhere in a parallel universe, there was a person a bit like Bill Gates who wrote a whingeing "open letter to hobbyists" a bit like this one. At the following week's meeting of their computer club, a resolution was passed calling for the troublemaker to be hauled into the Gents' toilets and given a Bloody Good Kicking {probably a couple of head-flushes with seat-whacks too for good measure, and to prevent the casualty from losing consciousness before satisfaction was achieved}. Thenceforth, on that planet, a law was passed, and it said this: That the author of a computer programme has exactly one right in respect of that programme, and that is the right to be identified as its author, for as long as any living person remembers any true fact about the person or the programme; and that everybody has the right to distribute the source code of any computer programme ever written, with or without modifications and whether or not accompanied by an executable version, so long as they did not try to change the original author's name.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    37. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Shaper_pmp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Interesting aside - last night my flatmate wandered in while I was talking to another geek friend about the TCA, Windows DRM^H^H^HVista and related matters.

      This guy is no techie (christ, he asked me to help him hook his monitor up last week), but he listened in and asked us to explain exactly what Trusted Computing was. We sketched out the very basics - media files dialling home before play, your rights/viewing-licence agreement changing after purchase at the whims of the content producer, other theoretically possible restrictions that DRM allows for, files refusing to play on non-trusted platforms and your PC dynamically downsampling future DVDs if it detects your monitor isn't Trusted.

      At the end of the five-minute conversation (again, attempting to inform rather than frighten) the guy was more pissed off than I've ever seen him - practically kicking furniture and swearing he'd never buy a bit of TCA-compliant electronics. Ever.

      As I said, while this guy isn't stupid, he's not even remotely technical. And when he appreciated the actual, real-life restrictions Trusted Computing would place on him he was angry.

      There is hope for these people, if they can be educated before the fight is over.

      --
      Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
    38. Re:Damn Microsoft! by squoozer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have got to be a troll. I can't honestly believe any grown adult (I presume you are an adult as you appear to work) would hold such a narrow minded view of the world.

      I wouldn't normally lay into someone expressing their opinion on a public forum but I believe you, and the thousands like you, who adopt the view given to them by the media are stealing the rights and freedoms of the thinking people.

      The mass media has the sole goal of making as much money as possible and will attempt to achieve that by any (legal) means. This means that they are not necessarily out to protect your best interests even if they appear to be. Therefore you have to make a judgement call about how much you can trust their information.

      Several years ago I gave up television the only mass media I really partook in, I never read newspapers and only really listened to music radio, and the change in my world view has been amazing.

      It took time and I only realize it now but I am no longer paranoid. I actually it find quite scary to listen to many of the sheeple now-a-days. They have been whipped up into a frenzy about terrorists and see evil round every corner. You might argue that I have become insular and lack a world view but I still get a daily dose of news from the Internet and am knowledgeable of world affairs. The difference is my intake is more controlled and it is easier to ignore the hyperbole.

      As an example take your comment about weekend pot smokers. Why is there wide spread paranoia about them? I believe that it is almost entirely mass media induced. The media need something to scandalize the masses about so they pick something new, because sheeple all suffer from neophobia, and something that a weak portion of society enjoys, because they have no voice with which to defend themselves.

      There is little evidence that pot has any negative effects beyond those caused by the tabacco it is often smoked with and the studies that do show it has an effect only appear to indicate that extremely heavy usage is harmful (IIRC somewhere in the region of 20 joints a day). Over here in Europe we don't have the same paranoia of pot and drug tests are almost unheard of in civilian jobs. Amazingly the world hasn't come to an end and our productivity hasn't dropped through the floor. So I ask you: why are you employers insisting on drug tests? Could it perhaps be a form of control? Something to help make you ascribe to their world view?

      I'm not saying that there is a big conspiracy. I don't believe there is. I think it is human nature. People will always want to dominate people whether they realise it or not and grouping together under a common banner is a good way to achieve that end. The problem is that it causes wide spread exclusion and the victimisation of minority groups. Once gangs, clubs, parties, etc begin to form and grow it is easy to view people that don't subscribe to the same world view as evil or wrong which is the mistake I believe you are making.

      The pot smokers and "black people" are still people they just don't agree that your world view is right. I suggest that you learn to live with the fact that the universe doesn't have a concept of right and wrong and try and accept the people around you because surprisingly most aren't actually out to get you. I hope that you think about what I have said. We can create a relaxed world where we get along it just takes a little understanding.

      --
      I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    39. Re:Damn Microsoft! by GreatSouledSam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That seems to be a trend in computing. Praise Apple for pulling the same sneaky underhanded moves that Microsoft gets pummeled for...not that Microsoft doesn't deserve pummeling mind you. I shall continue to steer clear of both. Ubuntu!

      --
      ---------- I have prepared a response. Ahem. Fuck. You.
    40. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Ugg. How many times does it have to be said?

      THESE ARE DEVELOPER MACHINES AND DO NOT REPRESENT HARDWARE THAT APPLE WILL SHIP.


      This is about the kernel, not the hardware.

      Really, if we take this attitude, we're forced to conclude that NOTHING about the developer platform can be counted upon to be in the commercial product. That's completely absurd. No, not everything will be in the commercial product, but it's not like they deliberately build the developer platform to be completely different from what they eventually release to the public.

      Common sense tells us that if there's DRM support in the OS X on Intel kernel, there's at the very least a chance that it'll be in the shipping product.

      If we're going to make noise over it, we damn well ought to do it as soon as we have first inkling of it, not when it's already too late. You don't wait until your neck is in a noose to hire a lawyer.
      --
      You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
    41. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Taladar · · Score: 2, Funny

      Newsflash:
      Researchers discover: Some people are willing to pay more for a product then others...

    42. Re:Damn Microsoft! by generic-man · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To play movies full-screen in Windows Media Player out of the box: ALT-ENTER

      To play movies full-screen in QuickTime Player out of the box: CMD-F (and pay $30) (and pay $30 for the next version) (and $30 more for the version after that)

      Yeah, Apple's a saint among corporations.

      --
      For more information, click here.
    43. Re:Damn Microsoft! by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Funny
      In Soviet Russia, tired old joke rehash YOU.

      -Eric

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    44. Re:Damn Microsoft! by larkost · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't license your hardware, but you do license your software. To put another spin on it, do you think it would be alright to buy copy of the latest Harry Potter book, copy out the text, and start selling your own printed versions? Notice I am not talking about loaning your book to that person, but actually making a copy. You are always free to loan your computer (and the software on it) to a friend.

    45. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have another person who have fallen for the FUD and no longer believes you can own a copy - you either own the copyright, or you license it. The copyright, the right to make copies, has always been protected by copyright law. If you sell me a Harry Potter book (the copy), you do not need to have a license agreement with me.

      Licensing has nothing to do with the right to make copies. It is about controlling how and what you do with your copy, and to avoid consumer rights we recieve by a sale. For example, to only allow playback on approved devices to limit features (disable fast forward), collect player royalties, enforce artifical market barriers (zones)
      or to tie licenses to specific hardware or activation schemes to prevent resale, or to remove the rights you normally would have under fair use and other laws.

      Anything that isn't lent, rented or leased, I consider sold. You sell me CDs, DVDs, iTMS songs and Windows XP. Not the copytight, the copy. That is my personal philosophy at least. The law is bought.

      Kjella

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    46. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What will you do when ALL the stored ask you to leave the bad at the door?

    47. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Wildkat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well I for one do not agree with your world view but maybe its BECAUSE I am a full grown adult. When I was a teen, pot smoking seemed like a fun, harmless thing. My employer for the last 19 years (Army) takes a hard line on drug use and I have o problem with that. See, I dont like the idea of the guy next to me with a gun being stoned - or drunk for that matter. As my daughter approaches teen dating years I developed a dim view of most young men and an even dimmer view of any with cars or motorcycles. Age does things like that to you.

      But none of that stops you from starting a company and putting a big sing on the door saying "Help wanted - dope smokers welcome!" Well nothing except the extra attention you would get from the police but even that could work out if you lowered your local crime rate. It might work out that your employees are so gratefull for your keeping out of their personal lives tht they never once come to work impared. Or they could come to work impared, get hurt and sue you out of existance for failing to prevent them from hurting themselves.

      This is exactly what the open source community has done with DRM and now we all have a choice between one product with DRM and one without. Most people will see the good of DRM free software and not abuse it to blatantly rip off other people hard work. Some will not. Im talking going beyond fair use to selling soneone elses work as your own. We will see which will survive long term. I would rather have the DRMless software but I understand the need to protect IP.

      The open market will decide if your "Pot Smokers Friendly" business will survive and thrive and in an ideal world the open market would decide the DRM issue. I say ideal because I think the media companies iron grip on content will give DRM an unfair advantage but they still might lose.

    48. Re:Damn Microsoft! by coolGuyZak · · Score: 2, Funny
      Or when my employer wants to make me take a drug test even though I don't even so much as smoke cigerettes or drink alchohol and my job involves me sitting at a desk reading and writing things of little consequence.

      Aww, come on. Slashdot's not really that bad, is it?

    49. Re:Damn Microsoft! by schtum · · Score: 3, Funny

      I for one welcome our tired, rehashed overlords.

    50. Re:Damn Microsoft! by eck011219 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sarchasm: the gaping social abyss created between people who can detect irony and those who can't.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    51. Re:Damn Microsoft! by Elranzer · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah but do the tired old jokes run Linux?

    52. Re:Damn Microsoft! by MKalus · · Score: 3, Informative

      You don't realize Sarcasm very easily, do you?

      --
      If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
    53. Re:Damn Microsoft! by tolkienfan · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Good post.

      I'd also like to add that, originally, copyright gave a limited monopoly on "publishing". Copying from your own copy of a book was not covered by the law - and at the time, the extent of protection was 7 years

      You are actually entitled to do many things, like reverse engineering (excpting where the DMCA is involved), and making copies of small amounts for various purposes (like education), without any permission from the copyright owner

      What most software vendors do, is force you to agree to a "license agreement". Agreement as in contract, which is used to actually restrict you further than copyright alone would.

    54. Re:Damn Microsoft! by CptNerd · · Score: 3, Funny


      Imagine a Beowulf cluster of tired old jokes...

      --
      By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
  2. Who's more evil? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So who became more evil Apple or Microsoft?

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  3. Isn't this expected? by Buran · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I had thought that it was widely known that OS X won't run on anything not sold by Apple as a Mac.

    1. Re:Isn't this expected? by Buran · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Schiller (a VP) has already stated that the OS will not be usable on generic computers, and why would it? Unlike other OS makers, Apple primarily sells hardware. It would be against their whole business plan to become a generic OS maker.

      Hence my comment.

      However, I am hopeful that now that standard motherboards are used, costs may be lower which means that Macs may cost less in the future than they do now. However, of course, I don't know whether that will happen.

    2. Re:Isn't this expected? by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mod parent up.

      All the rest of you that are in a tizzy, slow down and think about it for just a second. How did you think they were going to prevent OS X from running on non-Apple Macs? Magic? Voodoo? Asking nicely?

      Besides, it gives the 3r33t h4xx0rs something to fiddle with and crack. They'd be bored otherwise. :P

    3. Re:Isn't this expected? by MoneyT · · Score: 2, Interesting

      clearly, it's in their best interest to let people run os x on any computer, but officially state they won't get any support for it. that way people can try it out and use it and apple could still continue making closed systems that they profit from.


      Because quite frankly, people are fucking idiots.

      HP iPods are unsupported by Apple. They clearly state this. They are constantly revieving complaints that HP iPods aren't being supported.

      Apple doesn't cover user stupidity in Apple care. This is also clearly stated, and yet they continue to recieve complaints about this as well.

      Non-Apple RAM is not supported by Apple, if the memory turns out to be the cause of a problem, then you need to buy new memory if you want Apple techs to probe deeper into the problem, and no Apple will not install third party stuff. This is clearly stated, and yet again, is another complaint source.

      Apple does not support transfering music from the iPod, this is again clearly stated. Care to guess what Apple recieves about this?

      Apple does not do repiar or waranty work and service for any third party products, and yet you would be amazed at the number of people that come into the stores looking for Apple to fix their third party product.

      Simply put people are stupid and don't understand the concept of something being an unsupported hack. As far as they are concerned, it has X company name on it, so no matter what they do with it, X company should support it.

      This is even further compounded by the fact that Apple continualy emphisises it's "Whole Widget" philosophy where you go to one company for your hardware and software problems.

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
    4. Re:Isn't this expected? by seanadams.com · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right.

      What is not so widely known is that it is ILLEGAL (in the USA) to:

      a) BUY a PC
      b) BUY a copy of OSX
      c) Make "b" run on "a".

      You heard me - against the law to do it in the privacy of your own home, like sodomy in Texas.

      And don't think for a second that Apple is above invoking this stupid law (not the sodomy one)

    5. Re:Isn't this expected? by poopdeville · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, this is true. However, it was widely assumed that differences in architecture would keep OS X from running on commodity hardware. Instead, the story indicates that Apple will use DRM to achieve this end. This is far more onerous, because it may limit the rights of legitimate customers.

      --
      After all, I am strangely colored.
    6. Re:Isn't this expected? by Linus+Torvaalds · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How did you think they were going to prevent OS X from running on non-Apple Macs? Magic? Voodoo? Asking nicely?

      By not writing drivers for 99% of the hardware out there?

      Apple doesn't have to do a thing to prevent people from running OS X on non-Apple Macs. They don't have to - it'll be extremely inconvenient to do so already, because drivers don't magically appear out of nowhere just because the chip is manufactured by Intel.

    7. Re:Isn't this expected? by numark · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just as an aside, the Texas sodomy laws were invalidated just over two years ago in the case of Lawrence v. Texas. Continue debating away from this point on.

      --
      Want Slashdot headlines on your site? Try SlashHead
    8. Re:Isn't this expected? by Methuseus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except that with Mac OS running on Mac hardware only, they can control about 90% of what everything does and there will be very few bugs with a specific motherboard/pci card combination.

      If they release the OS itself they won't have that same control over the hardware, so they have no guarantees that the software will work as intended, in any capacity.

      I honestly think Apple is very smart in this. It avoids a lot of support calls asking "where do I find this control panel?" because they put it one place. In the Windows world the control panel can be here, there, everywhere, depending on who built the software image for the computer that day.

      Basically, if Apple sells Mac OS by itself, they will lose their well-known reputation of "it just works." And don't say that "it's unsupported" saves them from this. Customers will still complain and call the tech support number when they're trying to install OS 10.5 on their HP and it doesn't work because the OS doesn't like that particular motherboard.

      If you say they won't, try working tech support or a technician's bench in Best Buy or CompUSA or something.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
    9. Re:Isn't this expected? by OneDeeTenTee · · Score: 2, Informative

      Will the mods give an explanation?

      Probably not, posting in a story you modded posts in negates the mod points you gave. (Unless you're extra tricky.)

      --
      Stop the world; I need to get off.
  4. Gentlemen, start your debuggers by Jeremi · · Score: 5, Funny

    The first person to crack this DRM implementation will win a free story about it on Slashdot!

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  5. Zealotry by NitsujTPU · · Score: 5, Funny

    More specifically, it includes "a TCPA/Palladium implementation that uses a Infineon 1.1 chip which will prevent certain parts of the OS from working unless authorized."

    Oh no, my two sources of zealotry are colliding. Eeek! It can't be evil if Apple does it, right... but DRM is always evil, right? /. I need you! Tell me what to think!

  6. Mach Overide by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Alter OSX code at runtime. It only works on PPC at present, however.

  7. And this is surprise because... by Pecisk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't get it - Apple's hardware has always been close system as you can get from PC type computer. So of course they can be 'accidentaly' early addopters of Palladium. Don't like it? Choose another vendor.

    --
    user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
  8. Re:Hands up all the surprised people by rritterson · · Score: 2, Informative

    You forget that pearpc requires you to buy a copy of OSX. Assuming Apple makes x86 OSX require a handshake with the DRM to work, pearpc will cease to work. That's ignoring the fact that an x86 emulator running on x86 would be more than a little redundant. (that's all pearpc is- a CPU/architecture emulator)

    The PPC version, of course, will work, albeit slowly. Really, you're just back to where you started.

    --
    -Ryan
    AUWYHSTOT (Acronyms are Useless When You Have to Spell Them Out Too)
  9. Don't get your panties in a bunch. by Durandal64 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Apparently Apple's DRM kernel extension only gets involved when Rosetta is executing code. In other words, if you're running native code, there's no checking. But apparently some critical parts of the kernel are still being executed by Rosetta. And reimplementing the `AppleTPMACPI.kext' in a completely harmless manner (such that it always returns a "Yes go ahead" signal) is an option. As is replacing it at runtime via mach_override.

    These boxes aren't even for sale yet. I'm sure that it'll be cracked before that even happens.

  10. DRM by lemist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Now it all makes sense. The switch from IBM to Intel has nothing to do with speed, heat, or anything else anyone has suspected. It's control. Apple (and the RIAA) knows that it basically has a monopoly of the online music business and that people accept FairPlay as a DRM method. Most people think that Apple, much like Google, can do no harm and people won't revolt or get angry over extensive use of restrictive technology. The next move into consumer entertainment, as many suspect, is online movie distribution. Apple got it "right" with music, so why not with movies?

    The move to Intel is all about controlling consumers. And don't label me as paranoid. This is a strategically advantageous move. Apple knows that if they can get the movie industry to trust Apple and only allow online distribution through Apple's online store then Apple will have something others dont. If the rumors are false, and Apple lets the next OS run on all PC hardware, anyone who wants to get the highest quality movies (H.264, anyone?) must buy the Intel Mac OS or Apple hardware.

    This move makes sense for both companies. Microsoft, despite its "evil nature," will not lock out the huge customer base who don't want DRM'd processors. Apple, on the other hand, has no problem doing this - after all, Apple likes to be "exclusive." And if they're launching a new OS anyway, why not start it off this way?

    Again, I'm not trying to be paranoid, I just think that this development really brings a new understanding to the switch from IBM to Intel.

    --
    "Anything that's invented after you're 35 is against the natural order of things" - Douglas Adams
    1. Re:DRM by Okonomiyaki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That theory has been kicked around a little already and it seems to make sense on the surface but it ignores no less than three very important points.

      1) Installed base. If Apple intends to promote a movie download service that only runs on Macintels, it's going to flop big time and worse than just flopping, it's going to really piss off people who bought PPC hardware in the past couple of years.

      2) Transion time frame. Apple will begin the transition to Intel next year but it won't be selling Intel boxes exclusively until 2007. That means the announcement of a service that requires an Intel box would have to wait until then or risk killing hardware sales. Somebody else will be doing it before that.

      3) iTMS model? Assuming they intend to follow the same model with their movie store, where selling movies is really just a way to move a different product (video iPod, set-top box, etc), they'll want to sell movies to Windows users as well as Mac users just as they do with music now. They'll also need to allow users to move their purchased movies to another device which may or may not contain the same DRM.

      Anyway, they don't need hardware DRM to open a movie store. They have a perfectly good software based DRM for music so something similar should be enough to make the movie industry happy.

    2. Re:DRM by jcr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The switch from IBM to Intel has nothing to do with speed, heat, or anything else anyone has suspected. It's control.

      Nonsense. Apple was leaving billions a year on the table because IBM wasn't supplying the parts that Apple needed. It's a lot easier (and cheaper) to add hardware DRM to the PPC or to an Apple motherboard than it is to shift the entire product line a different processor.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    3. Re:DRM by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2, Funny
      And don't label me as paranoid.

      Don't fear. The moderation "-1 Paranoid" has not yet been implemented on Slashdot.
      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  11. Re:Hands up all the surprised people by Feyr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    iirc, intel's drm is based on a supopsedly "hacker proof" chip that has an rsa keypair in it.

    everyone know how those uncrackable chips fared... well every time they tried to do something like this. it failed miserably.

    i know what you'll say. "microsoft managed it with the xbox". which is bogus, microsoft's problem is the complete opposite as this one. microsoft is trying to prevent unsigned code from running on "their" hardware.

    apple is trying to prevent their code from running on "unsigned" hardware. that implies the private key is in the paladium chip so it can "sign" a token sent by the OS. that's the worst case senario, and it will just take a few months to reverse engineer and distribute apple's private key along with pearpc (yes, you can read the key from that suposedly secure chip).

    another possible implementation is that the chip just sends an "apple" id. maybe s string of text or something like that. that's even easier to circumvent.

    don't be fooled by their marketing, pearpc will work just fine, albeit maybe illegally in the US (and canada soon). thanks to the DMCA

  12. Before you freak out... by Y-Crate · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously, what did anyone expect?

    Apple does not want OS X installed on every generic PC out there. If Mac sales die tomorrow, Apple and OS X go with it. And no, they wouldn't open all the source after the liquidation and you would be stuck with Linux and Windows on the desktop. With both options being crap (for differing reasons).

    I would absolutely love for OS X to be sold for any machine with an Intel or AMD chip inside, but it's just not going to happen because Apple is not positioned to do so and survive.

    Fortunately, Apple has never even hinted at taking a route other than having OS X run on their machines and their machines only. Any disappointment should be tempered with the knowledge that they have had their cards on the table on this for some time. I don't think there was any question of another outcome.

    Apple is not screwing anyone over, they are just continuing what they have done for the past 21 years (even the brief period of Mac clones only involved the OS running on approved hardware).

    Perhaps things will change sometime down the road with Apple making further inroads into consumer electronics and successfully diversifying their business. I wouldn't hold my breath, though. The seamless integration between hardware and software is at the very core of the Mac experience.

    It's unfortunate that OS X is going to stay on one set of hardware, but it is just the way it has to be for the time being.

    1. Re:Before you freak out... by Senjutsu · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I probably just dont understand the business well enough but if Apple could sell 5 million copies of OS X for (generic) Intel system, why wouldnt they? Is -all- of their money made off of the hardware?

      The vast bulk of it. 80-90% if I recall correctly.

      How does selling lots of copies of OS X equal Apple losing money?

      You're assuming they'd sell lots of copies. That's a big assumption. Certainly their current level of OS license sales couldn't sustain the company, so even if we assume that everyone who uses OS X now were to buy a copy of "Generic Intel OS X", they'd need to expand their sales share significantly.

      What the "Why don't they just sell it for generic boxes like Microsoft does and make $$$" crowd forgets is that Microsoft doesn't actually make a lot of money off of people walking in to Circuit City and buying a box copy of Windows. The vast majority of people view installing an OS as being more complicated than building a rocket ship from scratch using only a stick of gum and some 2x4's; the hobbyist market who is comfortable with this sort of thing isn't big enough to sustain a company of any significant size.

      No, the real money is in OEM licensing to large volume hardware manufacturers. If Apple sold OS X for generic Intels, everyone would be able to undercut them on hardware prices, so forget about that business. And the walk-in market isn't nearly big enough to sustain them. So unless they could secure a number of OEM deals with the Dells and HPs of the world, they'd be bankrupt within the year. And Microsoft has historically done everything in their power to prevent even insignificant companies like Be from getting their OS shipping pre-installed from the OEM. You'd better believe they'd pull out all the stops to keep Apple out of that market.

    2. Re:Before you freak out... by Coryoth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So unless they could secure a number of OEM deals with the Dells and HPs of the world, they'd be bankrupt within the year.

      HP was selling HP iPods there for a while (stopped recently - it was dumb idea), but obviously Apple is willing to license other vendors to sell stuff... so while you might not see OS X whitebox edition, you might see HP featuring MacOS X. There may be a few laptop vendors like Toshiba interested as well. I have a feeling Dell is too cosy in their arrangements to do any such thing.

      The point is that Apple doesn't have to release OS X into the wold for us to see OS X on non-Apple hardware: they just have to hammer out license deals with other vendors. Presumably any such deal would involve said vendor being responsible for support. I doubt HP or Toshiba could significantly undercut Apple on hardware, especially if Apple has control over the license agreement on how the vendor gets to use OS X.

      I'm not sure this is really likely, but it is definitely possible. It would be interesting to kno who Apple is having talks with...

      Jedidiah.

  13. Re:Jobs and Gates: Two Sides of the Same Coin by KillShill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    are you ignoring the last 2 centuries of copyright nonsense and patents? the ever increasing copyright limits? our culture has been locked down in ways people can't even grasp at the moment.

    --
    Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
  14. Not in the kernel by annodomini · · Score: 5, Informative

    The headline states "Mac OS X Intel Kernel Uses DRM". According to TFA, it's Rosetta (the PPC emulator, which isn't written by Apple) that uses DRM, not the kernel of the OS itself: We've discovered that the Rosetta kernel uses TCPA/TPM DRM. Some parts of the GUI like ATSServer are still not native to x86 - meaning that Rosetta is required by the GUI, which in turn requires TPM. In fact, we already know that the kernel doesn't use DRM and can run on any Intel box you want, because it's open source and can be downloaded here. It's the GUI that Apple wants to be locking in to their hardware, not the kernel. I suspect that they probably will make something other than Rosetta check the TCPA chip, but that's not what is going on right now.

  15. Errm...OSX is no walk in the park either by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if you're coming from M$ Windows. As a matter of fact, I'd say it's not a whole lot easier (if at all) to use than the default "desktop" install of Redhat or Suse Linux. The only advantage you'd have over Linux is the ability to walk into a store and buy shrinkwrapped software and even that's not entirely easy for Mac owners since a lot of stores don't carry Mac titles either.

  16. Can the OS authenticate the TCPA chip? by jay2003 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From what I've read, the windowing system is using a kext to validate the hardware. The kext could be replaced with a fake one that replies anything. The real question is can software authenticate the TCPA chip through the kext. To do so, the chip would have have a private key embedded in it that was chained to a public key embedded in the OS.

    I don't known anywhere near enough to know if TCPA supports this. Apple would be the only user of the OS authenticating the hardware I can think of so it's possible TCPA leaves out this feature. There are plenty of uses for the hardware authenticating the OS but the other way around is rare since most software vendors want to run on as many types of hardware as possible.

  17. Re:Hands up all the surprised people by jmorris42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > i know what you'll say. "microsoft managed it with the xbox". which is
    > bogus, microsoft's problem is the complete opposite as this one.
    > microsoft is trying to prevent unsigned code from running on "their"
    > hardware.

    This situation isn't a lot different except they will allow unsigned code (WinXP or Linux) to boot instead of OSX. But once loaded it is a variant of the same thing, don't allow any unsigned code into ring0. And it wouldn't be all that much of a stretch for them to go total X-Box and lock any unsigned OS out.

    But I sure hope you are right about it being cracked soon because if it isn't we are hosed. The initial posts here confirm that the Apple fanboys are more than willing to drink the Kool-Aid if Apple is serving it up.

    Which means Microsoft will be forced to push up the rollout of similar lockdowns for Shorthorn because if they don't Apple will have all the video over net business locked up and Hollywood won't let Bill play.

    And of course while they are at it they can lock out bootleg Windows licenses forever, win-win for them. And if not outright outlaw Linux, at least make sure only generic whitebox motherboards from Taiwan run it. The Dell and HPs will all be locked to the copy of Windows married to their TCPA module during manufacturing. And when the non-crazed Apple Fanboy civil libertarians complain they can, with a totally straight face, claim they HAD to.

    Thank you Steve Jobs. Fucktard.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  18. Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you analyzed the mach_kernel binary file on the Developer Kits, you would see that the kernel is vastly different than the Darwin 8.2 that Apple released as open source. For one thing, it automatically calls the oah750 daemon (better known as Rosetta) every time that it finds a non-universal PPC executable.

    Before the kernel uses Rosetta to execute the PPC application (i.e. ATSServer in the case of starting a GUI), it calls the TPM kernel extension and checks the private keys in the TCPA chip. This is the only thing, as far as is apparent, that prevents Mac OS X from flawlessly running on a non-Apple system.

  19. Oh do stop panicing by threaded · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Oh do stop panicing, this will be cracked, and easily, if it has not already been done.

    I am beginning to think companies put these copy protection things in the hardware for a variety of reasons:

    1) They get free advertising with the protests.
    2) They get free advertising when it is cracked.
    3) They get free advertising when they chase the crackers.
    4) They get free advertising when they chase the cracks' distributors.

    And maybe it gives the content providers a warm fuzzy feeling.

  20. Awww. by Graymalkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everyone here has been waiting for OSX-x86 ISOs to hit torrent sites so they can run OSX on their whitebox PCs. As has been seen many times before, not every ADC member holds up their end of the bargain with regard to their NDA. Knowing this full well it was rather obvious Apple would have to take some sort of action to keep their OS from being widely pirated within days of the first dev kits being delivered.

    There's a lot of hand waving here about companies removing people's rights and slippery slope arguments along the lines of "if they do X they will eventually do Y for reason Z". This entirely ignores the fact that Tiger-x86 is probably the hottest thing to hit torrent sites in a long time. It was bad enough when developer releases of Tiger for PowerPC were making the rounds and people were making stupid assessments of the system months before release. The development kits and pre-release copies of OSX are meant to be in Mac developer hands, not Joe Dork down the street on his PC.

    It is not a particular right to run OSX on anything but a Mac, the OSX EULA that you have to agree to in order to install the system specifically states that. Apple locking OSX onto Macs means they can continue to sell the machines with a straight face. No one would bother to buy a Mac if they could just grab a copy of Tiger and slap it on their PC at home. Apple would have little incentive to continue Mac development if there were no Macs being sold.

    --
    I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    1. Re:Awww. by plasmacutter · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What bothers them are DVD players that can be modified not to Follow The Rules (no skipping commercials, no copying unencrypted movies onto DVDs and selling them extra cheap, etc.

      ...and this is the problem. They should not be allowed to tell dvd vendors not to skip commercials or allow decryption. It's everyone's right under fair use doctrine to skip commercials and back up or personally manipulate media in their homes. Not all decryption is for piracy, and there are already laws in place which severely punish pirates with hefty jail sentences and life long destitution.

      this was their plan however. Claim "exciting new media products" then remove fair use forcibly from the people. Hollywood claimed It didn't want to do that, yet faced with the reality of being able, went ahead and did it anyway.

      do you honestly think apple so infallible? they're laying out 10 miles of road when they only need 1, do you think they're not going to travel those next 9 miles? I believe they eventually will succumb to this temptation, but I am still holding out for benevolence here.

      if they choose to abuse this power, as everyone has before them (except george washington), I don't want that discovery to cost me the rather hefty price of one of their systems.

      --
      VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  21. Future of Apple vs. Microsoft by The+Angry+Artist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DRM now or DRM later?

    --
    If you're reading this, stop it.
  22. Re:Not to be an Apple apologist... by vought · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Well...if you think about it, they never really needed DRM for their OS before. Basically, using PPC was their DRM. Now, they kind of have to do it, don't they? Otherwise someone will hack OS X to work on any machine with an Intel processor and that will cannibalize Apple's hardware sales.

    There are other reasons for using the TPM. I'm sure someone with a vivid imagination will come up with more reasons, but here are a couple I came up with when I read the article title:

    • As mentioned, OS X for Intel could concievably be modified to run on commodity hardware, denying Apple deserved money for the software and hardware income streams of their business. The TPM helps them avoid piracy.
    • You could concieveably use any licensed media on any TPM-equipped Mac simply by signing into your account.
    • An added layer of defense against viruses and malware.
    • Enforcing iWork and Final Cut/Logic/etc. licenses while adding some easy machine-to-machine portability to those same products.

    I don't think Apple is overly agressive when it comes to licensing and DRM. If anything, they'll likely follow their tradition of using products like this to not only render accesible new content, but to provide new features.

    As with USB, Apple is employing a new technology that will cause some disruption to be sure, but it'll also help to overcome the inertia that comes with the commodity PC/Windows market.

    People who scream about the DRM sky falling are being shortsighted. The TPM provides for much more than copyright enforcement - it also provides a way to avoid entering serial numbers, inadvertent per-CPU licensing transgression, and could make finding stolen products easier.

  23. IBM <3 DRM by Kaseijin · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The switch from IBM to Intel has nothing to do with speed, heat, or anything else anyone has suspected. It's control.
    IBM were founding members of TCG and the first to sell TPM-restricted PCs. Do you really think Apple had to go to Intel to get Fritzed?
  24. How is the TPM used? by SiliconEntity · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know a great deal about TPMs, I have a computer with a TPM. They are very common. Many high end laptops and desktops have TPMs. Here is an up to date list of systems that have TPMs. They include manufacturers such as HP, IBM, Acer, NEC, Dell, Gateway, Toshiba, Fujitsu, and Samsung. You've probably heard of some of them. It's easy to get a computer with a TPM. Probably in a few years it will be hard to get a computer without one.

    What does a TPM do? Essentially it is just a crypto chip. It can hold keys, and sign and encrypt data with them. It's completely passive. It never takes control of your system or does anything invasive. It doesn't even monitor the bus or snoop on data flows. It merely hashes, signs and encrypts data, on request from the CPU.

    How is it used for DRM? It can't be done today. They way it would be used, sometimes in the future, is to ship the chip with a unique key pre-installed in it, and with a certificate from the manufacturer on that key. Then the BIOS and OS get enhanced to do a "trusted boot" in which every software component gets its hash reported to the TPM. This allows the TPM to send out a crypto-signed "attestation" about the software configuration on the computer. It is signed by the built-in key, and that key is known to be a legitimate TPM key by virtue of the certificate that was created at manufacture time.

    This lets a remote server verify that you're running a genuine version of Media Player or iTunes and not some hacked thing that will strip the DRM and put it out on the net. Your system can report its software configuration and that attestation can't be forged, because you don't control a TPM key that has a cert on it from a TPM manufacturer.

    It's a complicated system, and no part of it exists today. Manufacturers don't ship TPMs with pre-installed keys, and they don't issue certificates. Nobody wants to touch that stuff with a ten foot poll. I know, I've tried to get a computer with a certified TPM for research purposes, but they're just not available.

    How would Apple use a TPM to keep the OS from running on non-Apple PCs? This is the $64 question, but I haven't seen much information about it. If they just look for the presence of a TPM, that won't help much - see above for all the computers out there that have TPMs.

    My guess is that it is more likely that the mechanism Apple will use or is using to keep from running on non-Apple hardware is not the TPM. They will probably use a custom chip. The TPM is extremely standard, the Trusted Computing Group has hundreds of pages documenting it. It would be crazy to twist that standard.

    Rather, I'm guessing that Apple uses the TPM for crypto purposes, possibly with an eye towards eventual DRM if and when the necessary massive infrastructure ever gets built. Due to its unique position as designer of both the computer and the software, Apple might even be in a unique position with regard to rolling out some form of TPM based DRM, just as they were among the first to create a commercially successful DRM system in iTunes. My speculation is that Apple is not using the TPM to stop hackers porting its software, they're using the TPM because it's useful. It just happens that the hackers don't have many systems with TPMs.

    If so, then, it is merely accidental that the use of the TPM is a road block for experimenters determined to run the Apple software on non Apple PCs. It's possible that if they looked at the list they would find some computers lying around that had TPMs in them, and if they tried on those computers, the TPM software would work fine. Maybe the OS would then run in its current form. It sounds like it's worth a try, anyway.

    1. Re:How is the TPM used? by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How is it used for DRM? It can't be done today. They way it would be used, sometimes in the future, is to ship the chip with a unique key pre-installed in it, and with a certificate from the manufacturer on that key. Then the BIOS and OS get enhanced to do a "trusted boot" ...

      The BIOS part is the one I am slightly worried about. As soon as mainboards come with a BIOS that insists on booting only an "attested" OS, Open Source users will have a problem. Something to look out for when buying hardware in the future.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    2. Re:How is the TPM used? by UnapprovedThought · · Score: 3, Informative

      In your case, you are not running the full monty yet (a TCPA-compliant Longshorn), which is why it seems so harmless. I'm not as optimistic as you are about what's coming down the pike. To me, Trusted Computing is like having an M-1 tank on your doorstep. Sure, it's going to be fairly harmless if there are no keys to open it, but the keys will come someday, and you won't be allowed to hold them.

      You claim:

      It can hold keys, and sign and encrypt data with them. It's completely passive. It never takes control of your system...

      Sorry, there's a little bit more to it, unfortunately. From the TCG's own FAQ,

      ... security processes ... are protected through the secure TCG subsystem.

      Access to data and secrets in a platform could be denied if the boot sequence is not as expected...

      Features include ... attestation of machine configuration when booted...

      It sounds simple enough, but there is a whole realm of implications that will someday come home to roost.

      (Beware when reading the TCG's own FAQ, by the way, as they adopt a deceiving "don't blame us, we're not the ones pulling the trigger" position. So, they gloss over some of the juicy possibilities a BIOS writer or an application writer will likely exploit from the technical specs.)

      To begin with, the first application that boots up, typically the BIOS (probably UEFI but any other choice really), if written to do so can refuse to allow any application to start which isn't signed by one of the keys securely stored in the TPM. The BIOS will check the TPM for a matching key for the OS, and if it matches, will allow it to start. Conversely, if the key doesn't match (for example, a bootleg OS), the BIOS can just stop right there. Keep in mind, this is the BIOS handling this, not the TPM, but, unlike even the M-1 tank, there is no way to tamper with the TPM to change the keys.

      Now, once a trusted OS is able to start, it can decide pretty much autocratically what other applications can start, once again using the keys locked down by the TPM to check if they are legit or not. So, programmatically, the TPM doesn't make the decision to lock you out of using non-vendor applications, but it's just as well as if it did, because the OS writer can easily use the TPM's secure, untamperable storage to enforce it. (Note that the motherboard supplier can cooperate with the OS writer to initialize the TPM with the appropriate keys right out of the factory (if they wanted to). It's irrelevant if there are no keys in there right now. The tank is still there, pointing at your door, waiting for its keys to arrive.)

      Other applications, if they are also signed by the TPM, may be granted the privilege (by the OS) to start and, specifically, to lock down data, such as video, in order to provide DRM functionality. If that decision is made, there is no way you will see that video through any other application unless the application governing the data allows otherwise. That data can basically be owned entirely by the application vendor, not you (as different from what the TCG claims, because no one's going to enjoy watching encrypted video gibberish. You can technically "own" the gibberish, but you still can't watch the video...). You may have a choice to delete a video, for example, but not to view it unless that vendor allows it. It is a backdoor way of implementing the media (DVD, CD, etc.) equivalent of the broadcast flag, if the app writer and OS vendor cooperate to that effect.

      Unsigned applications may be allowed to start too, and the TCG spec says that this is in the "user's" control, but let's face it, it's really in the OS vendor's control because they control the machine all the way from bootup. There isn't a little switch on the TPM chip to allow you to override your OS' choice in the matter. Still, it's possible that

  25. I thought this way by Man+in+Spandex · · Score: 2, Funny

    how did you think Apple was going to keep their OS on the computers they make?

    javascript:void(osx.g_sDisableAppleCheck='all')

    :X

  26. Re:Actually... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Interesting
    In other words, one will be able to install and run Mac OS X on any Intel box, just not run any software compiled for PPC on it?

    No big deal then. I'd expect them to port all the code to x86 by the time they release those things anyway, and other software vendors will surely follow soon.

  27. Re:Hands up all the surprised people by monkbent · · Score: 2, Informative
    And of course while they are at it they can lock out bootleg Windows licenses forever, win-win for them. And if not outright outlaw Linux, at least make sure only generic whitebox motherboards from Taiwan run it. The Dell and HPs will all be locked to the copy of Windows married to their TCPA module during manufacturing. And when the non-crazed Apple Fanboy civil libertarians complain they can, with a totally straight face, claim they HAD to. Thank you Steve Jobs. Fucktard.

    Uh, Apple has already said you could install Windows (and obviously Linux) on their machines. In fact, it's already been done. http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/25/ 1920224&tid=190&tid=118&tid=3.

    This is a lock for the software, not the hardware. So I'm having trouble making the logical leap to Dell and HPs being unable to run Linux.

  28. Re:FP! by fr0dicus · · Score: 2, Funny

    DRM could be put to valid uses, such as stopping first posters...

  29. Re:copyrights by stoborrobots · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The copyrighters right to copyright is not protected by the U.S. Constitution
    ...
    Section 8 - Powers of Congress

    Yep - that would be the ability of the US Congress to control whether or not the copyrighters have a right to copyright. Note that it provides congress with a power, it does not provide the people with a right.

    Importantly, it has the clause "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" - once copyright is no longer filling that role, it should not be in place...
  30. Re:Hands up all the surprised people by jmorris42 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > This silly conspiracy theory is getting tiring. Why would Dell & HP
    > prevent paying customers from running Linux or DOS or whatever the fuck
    > they wanted to run? Both companies sell Linux and brag about how much
    > money it makes them.

    Simple. Same reason you can't buy a PC from Dell without an OS except for a couple of Optiplex lines they target at the corporate users who already have site licenses. And even for those they have to toss FreeDOS in the box to make Microsoft happy.

    Now imagine a world where Microsoft requires a locked TCPA chip to boot a future version of Windows. Basically they will speak unto Dell thusly: "If you want to sell Windows you will stick this chip on each and every motherboard. And if you don't want to pay the whitebox chopshop price for licenses you will join our co-op marketing program which requires you stick this chip on ALL motherboards you sell. No exceptions. Hey bitch, you already give Intel the same 100% loyalty so now you serve TWO masters. Starting today you no longer sell Dells, you sell Windows Workstations with Intel Inside and if you don't like that I have the same contract manufacturers you job your actual work out to ready to make em for me direct and a bunch of Indians ready to roll on deploying an ecommerce site to sell them through."

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  31. Re:Just out of curiosity... by anubi · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Well, imagine you hired somebody and you told him to do something. You want him to do it.... NOW!

    Now, imagine you hired somebody and you told him to do something, but now, instead of just doing it, he insists on getting permission from someone else before he will do what you tell him to do. This leaves someone else in complete power of whether or not you can get this guy to do what you hired him to do in the first place...

    Its yet another layer ( possibly dozens of layers ) of additional negotiation that has to be played out before things can happen.

    There are many businesses out there who are running on razor-thin profit margins as they try to remain economically competitive. Adding yet more layers of nonproductive negotiation will require cutting finances somewhere else, and often nothing is left but salary and benefits.

    On top of that, DRM enables somebody else to control whether or not the infrastructure you already paid for and installed will be permitted to continue to function. Would you want a toilet which insisted on "phoning home" and getting permission to accept a load?

    Believe it or not, there are many people out there which have a so-called "business" education that are completely unaware of the business risks of having somebody else at the switch which controls whether or not the business can function.

    We are trying our damndest to protect their ass.

    Its like trying to make sure your neighbors don't erect highly flammable houses in fireprone areas. Just as firemen know a fire in a neighborhood threatens all the houses, this DRM thing can easily get out of control and threaten all of us.

    There are some of us who know there is no reason at all to pay someone else over and over and over again for work that's already been done. But we also realize using DRM to enforce that paradigm is quite doable, and there are a helluva lot of people out there which will jump at the chance to lure us all into this cat trap.

    Me and a lot of other people here have been trapped before, and know what this kind of cat trap looks like and what it does.

    Once that door slams shut behind you... err, well forget about a lot of stuff you used to take for granted.

    --
    "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

  32. Imagine Bush's "Free Speech Zones" on the Internet by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting
    When the proposed move to Intel was first announced, I suspected this might be the case and therefore asked in my comment about what role DRM would play. Though I didn't elaborate on it, the tip off was the "Roadmap" being more "interesting". It's a shame that Apple is heading that way. However, it's still possible for a more enlightened move from Apple's management.

    I still think the problems raised by DRM are greater and more severe than those it purports to fix. Obviously, fair use and doctrine of first sale are the first to disappear. But also, common carriage is at risk, and if DRM gets into routers and switches then it will be possible to make the Internet into the same mess the telecommunications network is in.

    The nature of DRM and the clumsy attempts we have seen so far also indicate that there is great potential for human rights abuse, too. There is of course the ability to monitor who is interacting with whom, the DRM software has to track this to work. There is also the ability to block or censor communications. After all, restricting access or dissemination is what DRM is all about. And that directly affects both the right to free speech and the right to peaceably assemble -- after all what can be published or organized without the Internet or the Web these days, without them you're shut off.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  33. Win/win for non-crippled systems by picz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If it weren't for Microsoft tolerance of bootlegged Windows and MS Office, their dominance wouldn't be as clear. "Pirated" software is good for sotware companies. Their products get exposed to a vast amount of people. People that work at companies. People that make decisions about what software to buy for their business.

    So if Apple goes TCPA and MS follows, then the only non-crippled system left is Linux (sorry BSD guys, your OS is still hostile)

    That might be good news. And my current iBook might be my last Apple.

    --
    ------- Look mum! I have posted another Slashdot comment! --------
  34. Re:time to boycott apple by demon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Oh, be serious now. It's their OS. They want to keep it on their hardware, for several reasons (which I think have been hashed out sufficiently). The technology is available (in the form of TCPA) to do it. And really, I think this is the most sensible, legitimate use of this technology that I've heard of. Really, what'd you think they were going to do - cross their fingers and hope? I think it's pretty clear Jobs & Co. have thought about this long and hard. So no, I don't think this is boycott-worthy.

    --

    Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
    Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
  35. Hands in the ears? by poptones · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Damn, talk about irony! The entire "free software" community has had its fists buried so deeply in its ears over this issue for years now it is doubtful we can make a meaningful recovery of the ground that has been lost.

    You try to pretend TCPA and DRM can be killed at birth and you are wrong. You try tto pretend DRM cannot be made to work and you are wrong. The same technology that protects HOLLYWOODS data can protect YOUR dat and MY data. DRM will allow computing to move into a new paradigm where conversations can be reasonably assured of being completely ephemeral OR where "data" can be moved from point A to point B with the relative security and geographic displacement of a physical object. But people lie and copy and cheat and forge and so to do this requires a *trusted platform* - a system you and I can both agree has been verified for honesty by a disinterested third party to our exchange.

    If you don't want to buy DRM media then don't buy it. But insisting someone is trying to "take your rights away" because they are asserting *their* rights is, at best, disengenuous.

    The open source community at large needs to take off the tinfoil hats and start doing some real development on these platforms. Like it or not DRM is coming and if you sit out the party no one is going to listen to you complain that everyone else already got all the cake and ice cream.

  36. Signing a contract doesn't make it legal by jesterzog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can understand the Illegal Search by the Cop (as I've been made to under-go such a thing myself,) but as to the drug testing, unless you did not agree to such a thing when you started your job, well, it's kind of like having to deal with a Non-Compete clause. You agreed to it.

    This isn't true. Contracts can contain illegal terms, and if they do then they're invalid. An obvious example would be if an employer inserted a clause saying they could kill you if your performance fell below a certain level. If an employee signed their life away like that for whatever reason, it's irrelevant. The contract clause is illegal, and any employer that followed through on it would be in a lot of trouble.

    There are legal protections on the content of employment contracts to stop employers from demanding unreasonable conditions from their employees, current or future. It's also why we have things like minimum wage. Some rights can be given up in a contract, but others can't.

    Whether a drug-testing clause is or isn't okay would depend on your local legislation. Some governments would definitely consider it a breach of personal rights, and would disallow an employer from deciding who to hire based on their acceptance of submitting to a drugs test. Chances are there would sometimes be exceptions with this, however. It might be acceptable, for instance, if it's an obvious safety issue on the job, and/or if there's reasonable cause for suspicion that you're taking drugs. An employer might have to provide convincing evidence for suspicion, however, regardless of what a contract states.

    Personally I don't think that nearly enough is done to stamp out ridiculous and illegal clauses in contracts. This is exactly the same reason why we have hopelessly one-sided terms of service on shrink-wrapped software. There's very little, if any, penalty for putting in highly dubious or illegal clauses and then pressuring someone to agree to them.

  37. Re:DRM in a GPL kernel, and When Should We Panic? by Spiked_Three · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't follow you? If your crypto cant withstand its source being looked at, it isnt crypto, it's crap. I can show you source for public private key stuff all day long and it doesnt make it any less secure.
    I'm not sure but I believe the DRM stuff is cryptographically bound - ie, just bypassing a check is not going to get you to what you want. If that is all it takes to get around the DRM then man, I need to go patent something real quick .... brb

    --
    slashdot troll = you make a compelling argument I do not like the implications of.
  38. Its been done! by Beautyon · · Score: 2, Informative

    From the .nfo:

    Release: Apple MacOS X Tiger *x86* *PROPER*
    Type: OS
    Format: ISO
    Archives: 47x50mb
    Date: 08/2005
    System requirements: Intel Pentium 4 w/HT/1GB RAM/10GB+ HD

    R E L E A S E N O T E S
    Thanks to the guys at phe*NIX who released a non-working copy. Too bad we at XiSO had the OSX x86 DVD for a few weeks now, working hard on disabling the Infineon/Trusted Computing module which is present onboard of the "developer" Apple-Intel boxes. As some of you have heard, Rosetta, Apple's binary translation software used to convert PPC binaries to x86 bytecode at runtime is a primary user of this Trusted Computing module, and since majority of OSX Intel apps are actually PPC bins, not much of the OS is usable without this binary converter working. So we patched that, as well as a check during boot for "supported hardware". Enjoy!

    I N S T A L L N O T E S
    1. Burn to DVD using your favorite burning software.
    2. Enjoy this fine release from XiSO.
    3. This has been extensively tested on various hardware configurations, but you WILL NEED a SSE2+ enabled CPU to run this on. Also, this has *NOT* been tested, and not expected to work on AMD CPU's.

    http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3363864

    That was quick.

    --
    ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
  39. Re:Erm... Linux also has this... by rjw57 · · Score: 2, Informative

    You sir are a troll who either is incapable of recognising sarcasm or incapable of noting that supporting a piece of hardware doesn't mandate one use it :).

    --
    Rich
  40. Why do you people care?! by 0xdeaddead · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is *APPLE* OSX will only run on APPLE hardware. Did you get that?

    Let me repeat OSX WILL ONLY RUN ON APPLE HARDWARE!!!

    Ok? Got it? If you really wanted OSX as much as you purport you would have bought a mac mini.

    Oh I know $500 for a computer costs too much, and you just want to steal OSX and run it on you klone or dell.

    Honestly go back to your Linux, and fight over your KDE or GNOME nonsense, and how Linux is loosing out just as Unix did wthat that CDE vs Windows nonsense, when infact it just canabalized the unix market in the 80-90s.

    As for the DRM, what did you expect? Apple would just flood the market? Since you probably have never download or installed Darwin, I guess you have never noticed just how device driver poor it is, or just how un linux it is.

    So put up or shut up, go buy a mac mini, or just keep plodding along with your x86, since you are too cheap to get a named OEM peice of hardware.

    Sheesh.

  41. Try not to think of this as groupthink. by coolGuyZak · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Note that it provides congress with a power, it does not provide the people with a right

    Yes, but that power is being abused... It says copyright for limited times... If I can pass retroactive copyright bills (Copyright Act of 1976, Copyright Term Extension Act) then can one really say that term is limited? (Note: the Copyright Act of 1976 had it's good parts).

    Importantly, it has the clause "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" - once copyright is no longer filling that role, it should not be in place...

    Rebuttal: How does a software patent (amongst other things) promote science? Art? What about content which is still copyrighted, but not "profitable"? It will be locked up, and eventually age until it's destroyed. (See the story behind Eldred vs. Ashcroft).

    And, to bring this post somewaht more back to the OP topic... When the media protected by DRM finally does enter the public domain, how will we access it and make it freely accessable to everyone? If the publisher doesn't create a DRM-less copy, we'll have to devise tools to crack the DRM, and if that DRM is still used by copyrighted media... WHOOPS! Just broke the DMCA!

  42. It's the reduction of choice that helps OS X rock. by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If OS X had to run on a gazillion different combinations, that fact would be a major point it making it less reliable and less stable. BECAUSE THE OS IS SOLD TO RUN ON ONLY A FEW HARDWARE OPTIONS, IT"S EASIER TO WRITE AND TEST AND Q/A THE DAMN THING! That is part of the success of OS X and what makes it run so geat. Of course Apple wants the hardware sales, but controling the hardware is critical too. I would not want an OS X that could run on Compaqs to Dells to A Opens to your custom PC because then I wouldn't get uptimes of 90 days (rebooting only for security updates that touch the Kernel, etc).

    LOOK AT SOLARIS. Ask anyone who needs a Solaris box to stay up for critical stuff (not FTP server, talking about critical stuff at the core of a company / government / hospital) and it will be on one on Sun's servers, it will NOT be Solaris for Intel. Big metal + Tested Metal = Solaris uptimes of years if need be. Small metal + Tested Metal = OS X I know and love.

  43. Re:copyrights by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Article 1. Sec 8.:

    The Congress shall have power ...[snip]...

    To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

    The Constitution grants congress its powers. Congress has, theoretically, no powers that are not granted directly or by implication in article 1 or by a subeseuqent amendment. So far so good. But like "Thou Shalt Not Kill", there's countless ways to pull out loopholes by means of clever interpretation. The problem with this is how to interpret the relationship between "To promote the progress of science and useful arts," and "by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries". L. Lessig has argued that the power being granted should be read thus:

    Congress is empowered to promote the progress of science and useful arts, provided that it is by means of granting authors and inventors exclusive rights to their works for a limited term.

    I think this is reasonable. However, sometimes too much expertise means you can't see the forest for the trees. The SC reads it more like this:

    Congress is empowered to secure for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries. The purpose for which this Constitution grants this power is to promote the progress of science and useful arts.

    Notice that this reading expands Congress's powers in a dramatic way. By reducing the preamble to a mere commentary, Congress's use of copyrights and patents becomes an unlimited power to control ideas and expression. For example, if they can create a fundamental property right to ideas if they are so inclined ideologically, even if it could be conclusively demonstrated that this would actually retard progress. They can grant copyright extensions, even though it is clearly counterproductive to incent people to produce work they've already done. This also castrates the term limitation. They could set the term limit to a million years, even though this clearly does nothing to promote anything.

    You can't escape the fact this clause is very poorly written from a standpoint of clarity, although it fits nicely into the rhetorical structure of A1.

    Personally, I find the presence of constitutional appendages like "to promote the progress" very suspicious. It suggests to me that the rights/powers in question are ones most people agree on in principle, but disagree on in details. I think that the framers knew there were potential problems with this clause, but they had bigger fish to fry like preventing the President from levying taxes and raising armies on his own authority. So, they weasled out by putting some vague qualifications on it and hoping the details could be worked out later. The other famous preamble (er apppendix?) is of course "a well regulated militia..." in the second amendment. This is another mistake. To some people it sounds like a limitation on the right granted; to others it's just a bit of commentary on why the right is granted. I doubt this disagreement is new. I can imagine that a fat cat Federalist merchant would imagine a "well regulated militia" very differently than a "blood of patriots" Jeffersonian agriculturalist.
    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  44. Our reason for drug testing by tacokill · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am a small employer. The reason we have pre-employment drug screens has absolutely nothing to do with me or my company's opinion of them.

    Our insurance rates are cheaper if we do them.


    It is a VERY simple cost/benefit anaylysis. We save money by requiring drug tests. Not in productivity or anything like that. Just our insurance rates.

    I suspect we are not the only ones who are faced with this choice.

  45. Objectivity by jfengel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How did you explain their side of the argument?

    Let's assume (perhaps falsely) that the RIAA/MPAA aren't literally Satan's spawn. They have a good reason for wanting DRM: they spend a lot of money to make music/movies. They'd like to get paid for that, and the current environment makes it easy for people to get the full benefit of their work without paying for it.

    You know all this, so I'm not going to explain any further, but the question is, did you explain this to your friend? It's easy to get people angry when you explain only one side of the story. And if you want to use him as an example you have to be extra-careful to present their side as persuasively as possible, because you're obviously coming to this with a bias.

    Look, I agree that the DRM they want to use is too restrictive. But the absolutely-no-DRM environment is also not completely fair to them. So the attitude of simply getting angry at them for proposing an alternative is just wrong. The proper attitude is closer to, "Gee, neither situation is tenable, let's figure out what's genuinely fair."

    1. Re:Objectivity by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They'd like to get paid for that, and the current environment makes it easy for people to get the full benefit of their work without paying for it.

      Ah, but the problem is, that's not his fucking problem. What is his problem is having to wait a few hours to listen to the latest music because his internet connection is temporarily down. Or not being able to listen to it in his car without an "authorized" piece of hardware.

      There are a hundred ways DRM could be the cause of future customer aggrivation. And in their mind, all these problems with piracy are not their problem, because they were good little consumers and coughed up their hard-earned dough.

      Something I learned early on in business: it can take millions of dollars to get a new customer, but a single stupid mistake to lose them forever.

    2. Re:Objectivity by jfengel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Another thing you should have learned in business is that your business partner's problem is also your problem. The **AAs are your partners: you buy things for them. Claiming that their problems are theirs alone is self-defeating, because it leads precisely where you're suggesting: they'll stick the most restrictive DRM they can on it, and suddenly their problem becomes your problem.

      So rather than just getting angry and saying, "Hey, you're trying to take away my fair use rights, I demand everything that's coming to me and screw what's fair to you," you treat them as the enemy, which encourages them to treat you as the enemy.

      I think that if the Slashdot community took the attitude of trying to come up with a fair solution, the **AAs could be convinced to embrace it. You offer them a point at which they can be happy and you can be happy, and they'll go exactly where you're saying: happy customers buy more stuff.

      Maybe there isn't a better solution than, as the great-grandparent post suggests, just getting people angry. It doesn't really fight DRM, of course, but it gives you a great opportunity to scream about it on Slashdot.