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The Hidden Boot Code of the Xbox
Device666 writes "In order to lock out both copied games as well as homebrew software, including the GNU/Linux operating system, Microsoft built a chain of trust on the Xbox reaching from the hardware to the execution of game code, in order to avoid the infiltration of code that has not been authorized by Microsoft. The link between hardware and software in this chain of trust is the hidden "MCPX" boot ROM. The principles, the implementations and the security vulnerabilities of this 512 bytes ROM will be discussed in this wikipedia article entitled
How to fit three bugs in 512 bytes of security code."
Thanks for not reading your own site, CmdrTaco
"Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
The title of a seminar held on the Redmond, WA campus.
Just because some text is available on a Wiki, it's not automatically so on Wikipedia, y'know?
:%s/Open Source/Free Software/g
YTARY!
the slashdotrix adjusting itself... Pay no attention to that cat.
The principles, the implementations and the security vulnerabilities of this 512 bytes ROM will be discussed in this wikipedia article entitled How to fit three bugs in 512 bytes of security code.
So it seems someone doesn't know the difference between a page with wiki technology and Wikipedia.
You'd expect "editing" to catch something like that...
Advice: on VPS providers
Not only is this a dupe, but the summary claims that the link is a Wikipedia article. Guess what--not every site running MediaWiki is WIkipedia. In fact, I'm pretty sure that only Wikipedia is Wikipedia.
English is easier said than done.
512b of space. NExT ON SLASHDOT!
Wheel of Time: Book by Book and Sumview (summary review) Bigdady92 style: http://bigdady92.blogspot.com/
The thing everyone needs to remember is that slashdot is akin to Norman Bates, a lot of them are confused, a lot of them crossdress and are very often psychotic.
So, the next time you see a dupe.. remember, be quiet.. or you could be murdered by a crossdressing psychopath.
Is that over or under Microsoft's par?
Not only that, it's also certainly not a Wikipedia article. Not every Wiki is Wikipedia, for crying out loud.
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
It would seem that this article has nothing to do with wikipedia either (except mentioning the name). Correct me if I'm wrong, but wiki != wikipedia.
Maybe the chain of Anti-Trust?
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Anyone able to RTFA? Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /home/groups/x/xb/xbox-linux/htdocs/w/includes/Obj ectCache.php on line 409
Easy. Just put one bug in every 170.666666666666667 bytes and you will be done.
Spoken like a true person who hasn't seen a modded xbox.
Have you metaroderated recently?
I haven't finished RTFA yet, but I wonder if this will work with that "MS Appproved Hardware" initiative that I've read about.
The simple truth is that interstellar distances will not fit into the human imagination
- Douglas Adams
At least Microsoft provides the same level of security to it own hardware as its does yours. You can't accuse Microsoft of playing favorites.
I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person that I'm preaching to.
What is morally wrong about doing whatever you want with something you paid for and own?
What's morally wrong is anyone arbitrarily dictating what you can and cannot do with your personal property.
Those bugs are not ones that prevent games from running. Those bugs are bugs that prevent the anti-BootROM-tweak system to work.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Duplicate story, duplicate link.
The previous article linked to the same page on xbox-linux.org, which is a wiki; not part of "The" wikipedia. Taco is asleep at the switch again.
Wow. Was it something in the coffee this morning?
First of all, it a dupe with another article in the games section.
Then it's wrong. The article isn't from wikipedia.
Finally, nice sensationalist terms:
- Oh noes, this code locked out GNU/Linux! Bad Microsoft!
- Hah, Microsoft can't even write 512 bytes of code without bugs!
Oh, and that last part was only the subtitle of the article, not the real title. But no thanks for pointing it out.
Read the interesting linked article, or the comments on the original post on games.slashdot, but this article here is exactly what I don't like seeing on Slashdot.
Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
Are you serious? Put down the kool-aid for a sec and consider this. If I buy something (a physical something), I own it. It's mine. If I buy and X-Box and am of the ilk that likes to know what makes things tick, it's my prerogative (and certainly within the bounds of morality) to tear it apart and put it back together. If I can make my X-Box boot Linux (which, contrary to your implication can have a very significant and useful purpose) then more power to me. I will certainly share my knowledge with others who wish to do the same. When it comes to stealing games (copyrighted works of "art"), you are dealing with an entirely different issue. That is akin to me being able to throw my buddy's X-Box into a replicator, push a few buttons and voi lah! 2 X-Boxen. Don't confuse the two concepts. Now, commence kool-aid drinking.
My memory must be shot, I'm sure I didn't sign a license agreement.
Not every Wiki is Wikipedia, for crying out loud.
Correction: Not every wiki that looks like Wikipedia is Wikipedia. It does look the same, but when the URL starts with http://www.xbox-linux.org/, that's kind of a giveaway.
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
Posted by CmdrTaco on Friday August 12, @10:32AM
from the stuff-to-read dept.
Oh the irony...
http://stoploudness.org/
Haven't I read this post before?
KFG
If I had the points, I would. Precisely what I thought when I read the GP's comments.
Until you see xbox media center play media off a remote samba share, or you sit down and enjoy playing all your old console games in similiar environment (tv/couch).. you would say things like the GP. Afterwards you would shut your mouth and learn to mod your xbox.
twitter.com/gravitronic
Sure the arguement can be brought up that some people want to know how it works. Well? Go work for a bloody gaming company who designs how it works.
Yeah, because obviously if I want to find out about anything I can just apply for a job at the company, which I will get. And fortunately the company will just ask me what I want to do and let me do it. Just like when I want to see movies before they come out I can just decide to get a job at a movie studio and they will let me watch the movies.
Please show me where they trounced Nintendo in the market place. And when I say market place, I consider the entire world where Nintendo and Microsoft have basically been neck and neck in hardware sales since their respective releases. Sure, Microsoft is doing surprisingly well in NA, but Japan is a different story.
It's like sex, except I'm having it!
That was really interesting, and while it's a dupe it's the first time I've come across it.
I hadn't really tinkered in my x-box's internals just due to lack of time (I had previous tinkered with my ps1 and n64 a bit.)
I'm an amateur when it comes to assembly but the way that was presented made it pretty much easily readable for anyone. Kudos to the peeps who made it available.
Shadus
All the security that they put on games is a waste of time and money... if people want to copy a game they are going to find a way to do so, nothing has stoped them so far.
That's why I always rub bacon on the shrink-wrap and let my dog open it. Then he's bound by the EULA, not me.
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
I hack out of necessity. The Xbox Media Center is an amazing piece of work. If these capabilities were built into the Xbox (or offered as an upgrade), then I wouldn't bother. Microsoft should learn from this and include media playing (and whatever the hacking community is doing) into the 360. I don't even use my Xbox for games...it's strickly a media player. I know there are other options out there to play my media for me, but the XBMC is the best there is!
Mirror here
You don't even have to read Slashdot to check these dupes anymore. Just run the titles through Google.
site:slashdot.org xbox boot
With Slashdot not having had major features added in a while I have to wonder what everybody over there is doing that's keeping them from reading their own site. I heard about a CSS implementation of the site in the works, but there have been sample rewrites in CSS for almost 2 years now, so I don't know what the deal is.
Maybe the site should be renamed Slashslashdotdot to reflect its duplicative nature.
rooooar
No, he got nailed to a cross because he said what he wanted to say. Ironic you're telling someone not to say something, isn't it?
If you own it you can modify it. The company that made your car isn't obligated to insure your car will run with aftermarket parts installed, though.
Folks should vote with their wallet. If an MS product doesn't meet their needs, don't buy it - but if they're howling because it doesn't do something it wasn't designed to do it seems to me the proper thing to do would be to stfu about it ;-)
"But damn can't we at least brand the people who are breaking the EULA's and such for these "hacks." "
What EULA? When I bought my XBox I did not sign anything?
"At least I am not the unscrupulous individual who is taking the time and effort into doing something that is morally wrong."
Okay why is it unscrupulous to hack a product I own to do what I want to do with it? If I guy a house is it immoral to add on a room or to tile the floor? If I buy a book is it wrong for me to make notes in the margin? If I buy a CD is it wrong to skip the tracks I really do not like? If I buy a model kit and us those parts to make a different model is that evil? If I buy a car and then put in a new stereo system and better shocks am I dammed to hell? Just how is any of this unscrupulous or immoral?
If their is a bug in that boot code that has security issues then how bringing it to light any more immoral than reporting that flaw in a car publicly?
Your concept of what is moral and what is not is odd at best. If you just want to play games on your XBox then to play some games.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Why cant people cook over fire like ogg instead of hacking it?
I build fire, I cook over fire. But Ugg over there has to mess up fire by changing it and adding stone cover over fire and slate door in front of fire to make fire do things it was not intended to.
now Ugg is spreading this evil change to fire and giving away this really evil "bread" he cooks in his "oven" that is against the EULA of fire.
Cooking over fire is quite simple and those chaging fire are only making it more difficult for others wanting fire.
others should do as OGG does and stick head in sand to avoid change and innovation.
Hmm, sounds ALOT like what you just said. if we all had the silly attitude you did, we would not have computers now. HACKING and hackers brought you everything you have and enjoy now from your house to your car to your food to your precious Xbox.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I suspect that they spend most of their time finding all the non-duplicate, insightful articles that have been submitted so that they can reject them.
The Xbox lockdown was always about pirated games. MS knows that only a small fraction of the audience cares about homebrew or Linux.
What is morally wrong about doing whatever you want with something you paid for and own?
What's morally wrong is anyone arbitrarily dictating what you can and cannot do with your personal property.
I'm pretty sure that sheep wouldn't agree with you.
This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
Achille Talon
Hop!
Good news everybody! Apparently according to the new editorial standards set forth by CmdrTaco himself, every site that runs on slashcode can now be referred to as Slashdot! This should help line his pockets further so he'll be able to pay even less attention to his own site (as if that's possible)...
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
So what? Guilty until proven innocent are we?
Well, it's morally wrong to mod your Xbox and then use the mods to cheat with Halo 2 online (although Bungie fixed their moronic mistake[1]) or other online games. (It breaks the Xbox Live EULA as well).
I personally don't mind what people do with their Xboxes, as long as it isn't to cheat.
[1] Gee, people have been able to edit files on the hard drive for two years! Lets not bother with any verification for this downloadable content!
10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
20 GOTO 10
These stories aren't the same you see: one is a crazy modern teenager while the one is the sophisticated identical cousin from England.
What a crazy pair, two of a kind!
We'll call it the Patty Dupe Show!
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
No. It's also about imported games and unlicenced games. That's why those are disallowed as well.
What about hacking hardware you got via BitTorrent?
No.
It's about discussion. People will comment. Read responses. Learn. It's all good, albeit frustrating for some.
That's because sheep lack the ability to speak and form coherent thought. Very keen observation, friend.
If you want to shoot people with a gun you paid for and own, you can do that. But there is a penalty. I have not said that responsibility is to be ignored.
... It equals their handicap
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
I dunno... My XBox is modded to hell and back and I can't remember the last time I actually played a game on it, not to mention I own all the games I've played. All 15 titles are on my hard drive, along with a bunch of movies and TV shows. See, the main thing I used it for is viewing media. XBMC is the first position on my EVOX dashboard.
Perhaps this is all part of a elegant scheme to bring down xbox-linux's website. Way to go Cmdr Taco!
Everything was moving along swimmingly at /. until some monkey decided to allow CmdrTaco to start posting stories.
I've noticed a decent amount of code changes that appear to be implemented, and then rolled back. (Testing in production i suppose?) One I noticed a month or two ago that was gone a day or two later was an "Alter Relationship" link instead of seeing the friend/foe bubbles. Another change they rollout and rollback seems to be allowing Anonymous cowards posting from proxies...sometimes i can post as anonymous at work, sometimes not (mostly not...with the "Slowdown cowboy, Its been 15 minutes since you last posted" error.
Dude... don't pick on ogg; it's having a hard enough time trying to kick mp3's ass to worry about how to improve fire.
Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
Your homework had an EULA? *confused*
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
how many times slashdotters can say both "dupe" and "just because it's wiki doesn't mean it's wikipedia" for the same article.
Well, there goes my plan of using a fleet of Xbox2s as a render farm to compete with Wetta.
I guess I'll have to go back to scrounging parts from the MIT Flea.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Neeeeeeoooooobody expects the Slashdot editors! Our chief weapons are laziness, laziness and corporate shilling, our *two* weapons are laziness and corporate shilling...
oh, I give up.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=site%3Asl ashdot.org+dupe&filter=0
I don't know. From what I've been told, one editor named after a mexican dish looks smashing in a cocktail dress and red garters.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Well you may have a valid point about your ability to turn the XBox into a better media player, but your describing this this as "hacking out of necessity" is completely laughable. You need a media modded XBox to live or something?
Yeah, and Hansel and Grethel found a house made of gingerbread. What's your point?
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
I'll give you a personal example of why it works in their favor, and perhaps why they continue to put time and money into securing their product.
I used to support Windows 95/98/ME/2K and XP (after it came out) for Microsoft before they decided to move everything to India. (Right about that time I decided that if I didn't want to move to India to keep my job I had better make a few changes and have since left the IT industry) Right as XP was released they gave us all our own copy of XP Pro. I took mine home and installed it so I could actually use it at home while supporting it. (I think that was the whole reason that they gave it to us in the first place) Not too long after that, there was an "internal" release of the "devils own" version of XP. No Activation, No Calling Home, and no problems. I promplty thought, "I need this more than the legit version they gave me..." and installed it the same night that I got a copy of the CD from a coworker. I've been running the internal version of XP ever since and have to date installed many many programs and games and went on with life as usual. I was able to update to SP1 with no problem, and with a little tweaking (Information available online) able to upgrade to SP2. This last little upgrade that won't allow me to use Windows Update unless I'm "legit" happened to stop me from receiving the most recent security updates. I don't want to become part of some Zombie Network etc and know that constant updates help narrow the chance of those problems. Being unable to update my computers security vulnerability I finally threw my hands in the air and gave up. I ran a repair install and put my original product key in and now everything is just fine.
My point is just this. I had a fully usable copy of Windows XP that happened to be "hacked" for lack of better terms and was happy with that. In fact, I was almost proud that I was using the internal (illicit) version vs. the legit version that they had freely given me. Being unable to update from here on out just bothered me and I didn't want to waste a whole lot of time and effort to sidestep the new security that MS had added. I had to go throught he hassle of a recovery reinstall over my current install just to add the legit product key to allow me to update. Now I'm legit again and happy that I won't have to worry about circumventing the system anymore.
Point Being: Sometimes people get tired of bucking the system. (FYI, I have a dual boot setup with Linux on that PC and the same OS dual boot on all of my other computers in the house.) I still like to play games on Windows however and so XP is staying for the time being. I just got tired of having to work around Micrsoft's attempts to stop me from using their OS "illegally". Even though there are always going to be ways around the MS blockades, I don't want to fight it anymore and so have given in.
Microsoft must be thinking: "If you slow people down enough and enough times, some of them may end up just giving up."
Generation Trance: What generation are you?
Please send me torrent links for hardware as I require a new GFX card.
K kewl thx omg!!!!!!1111ONEONE!
Well, not necessarily to live, but to live a full and rewarding life...
Use small bugs, like gnats.
paintball
It's a long tradition. Children have been getting more enjoyment playing with the boxes their Xmas gifts came in than the gifts themselves for decades.
That's because the boxes are often more interesting and allow more use of their minds.
Yes that does seem to work in some cases... I have always used Legal verions of windows cause I have never wanted to deal with any of the problems like that but there are and always will be those who don't really care, don't have the money, are board and want something to do, and will use illegal verions of anything they can get their hands on. But I was mainly talking about Games... security on games is a waste of time and money because most of the people play games seem to want to hack them anyways in some way or another. Things like Operating systems though I do agree that it is not a waste of time and money, they should try to add more security to operating systems and whatever else but games is a totally different catagory.
"While the CPU initialization can be done in less than 150 bytes, the initialization of the chipset and RAM, if done completely, will require more than 1000 bytes of assembly code."
And at this point me, the old C64 coder, just went "ewwwfffh." Back in the day, you could do all of the CPU and RAMbank initialization you wanted with five bytes! (lda #%whateverbitmask; sta $0001) And memory initialization was simple, ummm... 9 bytes + 3 bytes per 256 bytes of memory cleared. (lda $00; ldx #$00; .clrloop: sta $c0000,x; sta $c100,x; ... ; inx; cpx $ff; bne .clrloop)
PC hardware is monstrously complex. No wonder people no longer code in assembly. =)
On the other hand, what manufacturers seem to be doing is clearly somewhat abusive, and even though they're not cooperating with each other, most EULAs will probably contain abusive language, so consumers aren't likely to have a choice about which contract they enter into.
On the other hand, quotes like this give me a little hope that more and more people are seeing the value in openness:
If people see that openness is a very valuable thing, it's possible that either manufacturers will start releasing more open products, or, eventually, judges might step in and mandate slightly less abusive contracts.That's debatable. By buying XBox games, you're giving financial support a convicted monopolist. To me, there are some moral issues with that. I resolve them by using neither the XBox nor other Microsoft products[1].
Eivind.
[1] Exception: An inherited Windows PC at work. It runs putty, Firefox, Acrobat Reader, Eudora and Open Office. I see no point in doing a reinstall for a box that works and where the license has already been paid.
Doubting the existence of evolution is like doubting the existence of China: It just shows that you're uninformed.
Or you could just rub Beggin' Strips on the shrink wrap, and your dog would still open it because he can't tell it isn't bacon!
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Everytime you masturbate, a Slashdot dupe is posted.
So, basically, A LOT.
Video Game News, FAQs, etc
Maybe you should just boot XBMC as your dashboard instead of EVOX. It works pretty well.
I see no philosophical problem with Microsoft locking their BIOS down, using trusted computing to prevent unauthorized code.
What I have a problem with is the law that says I can't try to break the lock on something I own. I have a problem with the law that says I can't talk about this activity.
Now, I prefer to buy robust, user-modifiable devices. I will spend my dollars on my preference. I worry about the marketplace being dominated by TCPA devices, but I don't have a philosophical objection to those things existing.
The DMCA is just beginning to effect our lives. Give it another ten years to poison "intellectual property". If people own ideas, enforcement can only come in the form of thought control.
Use the Firehose to mod down Second Life stories!
That's the fourth bug in 512 bytes of code.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Maybe if they released occasional patches for fire it would'nt get hacked. ^^ Seriously, when was the last time you saw one?
Uhuh, Wikipedia uses MediaWiki. Xbox-Linux uses MediaWiki. Hence the similarity.
-Jar.
Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
Yeah - nothing gets you a job faster than saying, "I know nothing about what you do. Hire me and pay me to learn it!"
Because you can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter"
Playing with electronics is not wrong. And as long as it is your there is no problem.
"Alter Relationship" is the alt text for those buttons. The image might not have loaded :)
Actually, "distrust".
That's an interesting analogy.
--
This post is probably overrated
Doesn't Microsoft lose money on the XBox itself, making up the loss by profiting on the games?
If I guy a house is it immoral to add on a room or to tile the floor?
Dude, I don't know what "guying a house" is, but I'm quite sure it should be immoral.
The article explains how having lots of internal ROM in an IC is expensive.
The is absolutely false. I worked on a cellphone product in which the main IC (DSP, MCU, etc) had 4k of internal ROM. The cost of the entire part was less than $15 and remember, this included _all_ of the digital circuitry.
You can easily have more than 512 bytes of internal ROM.
At least I am not the unscrupulous individual who is taking the time and effort into doing something that is morally wrong.
I went to the store, bought something, and am using it for what I please. My use hurt nobody. Where's the moral wrong, exactly?
If you just want an Xbox for a cheap linux box and you don't buy games, M$ loses. This move is just to protect their return on investment. I'm not a fan of M$ but this is a legitimate business decision.
Sort of like Macrovision filing patents on circumvention methods of their own systems, that way if a third party sells a circumvention box then Macrovision can put them out of business citing patent infringement.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Shouldn't that be "site:slashdot.org intitle:xbox intitle:boot"?
Method of processing duck feet
However, knowing myself and my friends: Without the hardware it's much easier to avoid the temptation of buying, being given as gifts, or pirating those games ;)
Eivind.
Doubting the existence of evolution is like doubting the existence of China: It just shows that you're uninformed.
What's morally wrong is anyone arbitrarily dictating what you can and cannot do with your personal property.
Lets see, I bought this nice music CD, I paid for it, so I own it, or do I? Can I share it with a few friends?
1. "copied games" is quite correct; they are generally locked out regardless of legality
2. "A, including B" means that B falls into category A. Nothing else. It doesn't have any effect on the prior part dealing with the verb.
3. Last I checked, things can reach from something to another...
Luke-Jr
Bill? Is that you?
So, I have a question actually relevant to this article. The article says that the CPU was supposed to jump to address FFFF_FFFF, turn off the ROM, then roll over to 0000_0000, where the CPU would throw an exception thus halting the CPU. However, says the article, the CPU does not in fact throw an exception in this case.
So my question is, how did the hackers who reverse engineered this code conclude that it was supposed to trigger an exception? It seems hard for me to believe that the MS engineers would base their entire security mechanism on a feature of the CPU that didn't actually exist.
What, you don't have (or know anybody that has) a child? Or just have a neighbor do it.
I bet you drawer full of CDs smells...interesting.
How is running GNU/Linux or NetBSD on an XBox "morally wrong"?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
You can give the CD to whomever you want. You can even resell it if you want. It's yours.
For anyone (like me) who missed the original:
/ 2013251&tid=211&tid=156
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/08
Lets see, I bought this nice music CD, I paid for it, so I own it, or do I? Can I share it with a few friends?
I dunno about you, but I still remember a time where it was perfectly legal to give a copy to your friends.
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
to quote the matrix "because i choose to"
IMAGE VERIFICATION IS EVIL!
Slashdot posts dupes. So the fuck what? Get over it already.
Personally, I didn't even see the original posting on this story and I'm thankful for the dupe. I doubt I would have found this interesting article otherwise.
Remember, security is layers and each layer protects against certain hackers. Sniffing and understanding communication between chipsets is way beyond the average hacker. And, to date, I cannot place a disc in my XBox and turn it into something else without opening the case ... so in my opinion, it is still secure.
As offtopic as it is, parent really deserves an Insightful mod.
kurzweil_freak
5th Kyu Genbukan Ninpo/KJJR student
Be the darkness that allows the light to shine.
(I was going for a joke on the sly about the already-identified Wikipedia/Wiki misinformation. Ah well, next time Spiderman, next time...)
Challenge to Perl geeks -
Write a dupe checker in 512 characters.
512 bytes is a very small amount of code (it fits on a single sheet of paper!), compared to the megabytes of code contained in software like Windows, Internet Explorer or Internet Information Server. Three bugs within these 512 bytes compromised the security completely - a bunch of hackers found them within days after first looking at the code. Why hasn't Microsoft Corp. been able to do the same? Why? Uh, maybe because they simply don't give a shit?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
WTF? It's "morally wrong" to try to figure out how things actually work, then tell other people? So science is morally wrong then, we should just beleive what are leaders tell us, and never question anything? Well, at least you and Al Queda agree on something! Man, people making assinine statements like that about things being "morally wrong" is the best argument I've seen yet why creationism should NOT be taught in the schools... you've got it backwards; intentionally remaining ignorant is the most morally wrong thing a person can do... but that is apparently the path you have choosen.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
It's generally and depressingly true that most dumb statements here, not least those by the editors, are actually dumb statements. Conversely, seemingly redundant posts are often explained as the authors looking at earlier versions of the page while they composed a post, only to see a dozen similar ones after they submit and refreshed -- I've been modded down redundant for that.
At least I am not the unscrupulous individual who is taking the time and effort into doing something that is morally wrong.
It is morally wrong not to stand up against evil. It is an even worse moral wrong when the evil convinces you that it is good.
Microsoft made an Xbox, great. They put a lockout code, more power to them. But when they try to portray people who bypass the lockout code on their own property, that is morally wrong.
(Grr. Should've previewed. Oh well.)
At least I am not the unscrupulous individual who is taking the time and effort into doing something that is morally wrong.
It is morally wrong not to stand up against evil. It is an even worse moral wrong when the evil convinces you that it is good.
Microsoft made an Xbox, great. They put a lockout code, more power to them. But when they try to portray people who bypass the lockout code on their own property as lawbreakers or wrongdoers, then that is morally wrong. And it is the duty of moral individuals to stand up and say what is wrong.
(While I'm at it, I may as well mention that copying games without paying for it is morally wrong. All that is acceptable is modding the Xbox for fair uses: copying games you own (although I'm not sure why you'd do that), installing Linux, etc.)
And the acronym works too: SSDD (same shit, different day).
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
I understand where you are going and but your buying a house example is not helping you. When you purchase any piece of land it is zoned and that is controlled by the local government. Certain zones are for certain types of housing and what not.
You are allowed to change your house in accordance with their rules as it is zoned. Their zoning is like the EULA. You cannot tear down your home and build a 10 story tower to rent out. So whether you agree to it or not you are participating and bound to these kind of rules all the time. The only reason you are vocal about it now is because someone said Microsoft.
I will have you know that I can't stand MS. And I don't agree with this either but it is their right to do so. It is my right not to purchase it and I haven't and will not.
Q: I am short, useless and provide no value. What am I? A: a sig
"The Xbox is an IBM PC, i.e. it has an x86 CPU. "
I didn't know PPC was x86....
Stupid article.
Well, this is the first time I saw this article. I can't believe they made a virtual machine to handle cpu init only! I found this very insightful into Microsoft.
I used to have conspiracy theories that when MS was going to release a build, they ran an obfuscation script to inject random code. Like copying values around in memory, values that were never used for anything, etcetera, as reverse engineering-quelling techniques.
After using Unixes for a while I began to think that it would be just too much work to reverse engineer Windows, so such techniques were just unnecessary. If you can't buy Windows or run CE for your platform, just use another toolkit and OS.
Reading the amount of work they did to break running normal x86 binaries on their custom PC, the conspiracy theories are coming back.
I also think it's insightful that, instead of say more OpenGL optimizations or more security work, they paid engineers to develop these obfuscation techniques. What does that tell you about them?
Their still grudgingly trying to sell black boxes, whether software or hardware, that buyers will be helpless to work with without them. How can you still think that will work?
When people are using Nokia devices with Linux or whatever the future holds, Bill 'Monty Burns' Gates will still be refusing to get entangled in building or selling anything that he doesn't have total lock-in on. And the tar pit will swell up around him, and he'll join the other dinosaurs.
and the code running on it.
When you bought the xbox, you likely bought a LICENSE TO USE the box to play games, you did NOT get a license TO BREAK their system or use it in a way Microsoft can't capture your money. Just like you don't own MS Windows if you use it. You bought a license for your personal use.
It's precisely because you have no philosophical objection to TCPA devices that the emininent demise of user-modifiable devices is coming quickly. User modifiable devices threaten mega-corporation's ability to maintain control of their property. The political/economic environment will continue to eliminate devices and their manufacturers that mega-corporations can't control.
There is nothing new going on here! This was happening way before DMCA. It's a very simple process, you buy products for a very narrow and well defined purpose of entertainment or productivity. For example, Sony doesn't give you all rights to their movies and games when you buy one. They limit your rights by letting you be entertained by them in your own home among many other very strict conditions.
It's SO sad there are at least 5 people who can't understand a more complex notion of ownership and act indifferent to the extreme limits and controls being forced onto them.
Professing outrage about the DMCA (or any other matter) and it's limitations and doing NOTHING about it is the new american way. Enjoy the new america you have chosen to make for yourself. Sad sad sad.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Modifying your own xbox does not infringe upon anyone's rights. Your XBox is your property, not Microsoft's. They do not have any rights over your property that you could possibly infringe upon, except possibly the copyrights on the firmware code & whatnot. However copyright does not prevent you from modifying copies that you own.
The company that made your car isn't obligated to insure your car will run with aftermarket parts installed.
No. However, I'd be very unhappy about buying a car that was designed to purposely not work with aftermarket parts, especially if that ban were enforced by law.
but if they're howling because it doesn't do something it wasn't designed to do it seems to me the proper thing to do would be to stfu about it
The X-Box was designed to run computer programs. However, due to artificial design restraints, it only works with Microsoft computer programs. On top of that, it is illegal to remove the artificial restraints so that the X-Box does run non-Microsoft computer programs. The restraints are a minor pain that a hand full of people have discovered how to remove. And yes, I understand the game console business model. It allows Microsoft to make money on the X-Box while selling it below cost. I suppose that's the cost of cheap hardware. However, it should not be illegal for me to modify my X-Box so that it performs to its maximum potential. Nor should it be illegal to tell others how to make the change.
Request a Linux Shockwave player here: http://www.macromedia.com/support/email/wishform/
Then if I smash the XBox I buy with a sledge-hammer, am I guilty of vandalism? After all, I just destroyed Microsoft's property, right?
Furthermore, if I mod it to run Linux and Apache, does Microsoft *really* have any recourse under the DMCA? After all I am not *accessing* their copyrighted code. I am *replacing* it. IANAL, but I think that the Lexmark case might have some relevance here.
Personally I disagree with you in that I don't think that user-modifyable devices are in danger of demise. I think that there will always be a strong market for such devices, and we need to do a better job of selling them. But the market will exist and unless legal mandates exist preventing user modifyable devices from existing, then I don't think there will be a problem.
I am more optimistic than you are. I think that it is just fine for the Studios to be involved in DRM, etc. I think that the tyrany which they excersize over the mind of man will come back to haunt them becuase not only will the market react against them (which it has been doing) but also this will provide incentives to build an open alternative.
Open Source happend before Open Music because software licenses were more intrusive. With the music companies trying to emulate the software industries, they are creating a market for any good entrepreneur who wants to create such a business.
Call me naive, but I think that it is one of the deepest drives of man that he be free. This doesn't necessarily mean anarchy, but it means being free from the fetters which unduely restrain that liberty. Think of how one feels when micromanaged at work or face to face with DRM restrictions. That drive for liberty is undying and, though greed can pervade the world from time to time, it is in its eternal nature stronger than any other drive.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Personally I disagree with you in that I don't think that user-modifyable devices are in danger of demise.
True, but user-modifiable devices that can be connected to the Internet are in danger of demise. Alsee explains how.
Sure, Microsoft is doing surprisingly well in NA, but Japan is a different story.
In Europe, only old people have a GameCube. Here's the battle for the #2 console as I see it:
Indeed...the qualifier "in this country" is very important. One of two things will happen (in my next to worthless opinion). Either we'll fix things, or many (any that doesn't have DMCA like craziness) other countries will surpass us in terms of technological advancement. Since money talks (and in the long run more money is to be made by advancement than payoffs from the current clan of DMCA pushers)I'm hoping for the latter.
Nonsense. Zoning is a law, an EULA is not. Governments can impose arbitrary regulations on citizens. Private corporations cannot. An unsigned document written by microsoft is no more binding on you than a document I would write that says you must pay me one thousand dollars as a fee for reading this message.
1. Not every place even in the US has zoning laws.d .html"Well, it's been about three months since I've posted anything significant. Half of that is I've been finishing my PhD thesis, and the other half is that I've been dealing with legal issues versus my work on the Xbox. Well, last week, I finished both my thesis, and I got a grudging thumbs up, so to speak, from Microsoft on my Xbox reverse engineering work. so...here I am, again."
2. The EULA is not a law.
3. I bought my XBox from a pawn shop. I got no EULA and even if I did Shrink wrap EULAs are not binding.
4. From this site http://www.xenatera.com/bunnie/proj/anatak/xboxmo
So Microsoft has have decided it is not illegal.
And finally http://www.gcwf.com/articles/ipu/ipu_sum00_9.html "You are actually allowed by law to reverse engineer copyrighted code so long as it is necessary to discover the ideas or functional elements behind the code" So it is legal.
So if it is totally legal I would say that any question as to it's morality is dumb.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Well, I must admit that dupes are worth reading over again just for the funny comments! Maybe Mr. Taco was just trying to make us laugh? :)
It's dumb that the submitter doesn't know the difference between a Wiki and Wikipedia. It's sad that the editor didn't catch this. It's utterly, hopelessly, painfully ridiculous that the editor in question is Rob Malda himself.
$ while true; do (echo "not every site running MediaWiki is WIkipedia!" | post-to-slashdot sid=15882); done
How many more of those can Slashdot take?
Maybe we should try all permutations of words in that sentence? Write a polymorphic engine for it? DOS attack Wikipedia asking it for its own definition?
Oh well...
The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
Your point was lost when you had delusions about being an editor, rather than an incorrect, petty pedant.
im in ur
You seem to have "a serious case of old."