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A World of Warcraft World
An anonymous reader writes "On ebay people are paying real money to buy WoW gold... while some guy in Korea murdered another guy over a rare sword that existed only in an MMORPG. This essay looks at the way more and more people are failing to draw a distinction between their real and online lives and takes it to its logical, yet utterly insane, conclusion." Amusing, and with more than a few ounces of truth.
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The people are ripe for it. You've heard stories about how ticket sales are plummeting at movie theaters, in favor of home DVD viewing. Why? Why do so many people want to work from home now? Because we're sick of having to sit with other people. We want that extra layer of control that meat interaction will never give us. We want a world without the unpredictability of real, unrestrained humanity. Either that...Or DVD+/-R & DVDwriters prices are coming down.
do.what.promptcmds
ever consider the benefits of mmorpgs and computer games? ever compared the real violence rate and drug rates between nerds and jocks? jocks are the generally the ones beating peers, raping women and snorting coke. sh~t happens with anything. what doesn't influence people?
How dare you sully the great name of Blizzard? I and my 80 strong army of MC loot equipped legionaires will lead a crusade against you until there is not but one of you left to mock us!
But we need a one hour break from 6-7, Mom will murder me if I'm not there to eat dinner with the familly. Don't worry, this "real world" instance seems to be pretty persistant, our progress wont be lost, just aa few minutes to clear the repop...
Beep beep.
Absolutely right. If the time and effort required to obtain something is real, and the satisfaction derived from it is real, then why does it matter if the object itself is virtual?
The fact that people care so much about a silly game is, however, pathetic in my opinion.
until I ran into this:
/. and not something of actual merit.
"Just think of how porn changes when the user also gets to go in with the toned body of an underwear model. It'll make our current online porn look like just the tip of the assberg."
Was that really needed?
Anyway the article smells of someone trying to get posted on
"why don't you just slip into something more comfortable...like a coma!"
I'd like to see a study on the percentage of people that drop out of college due to WOW and how many actually recover.
Of course these people dont think they live ina fantasy world... but here's the reality of it.
These people have a very real connection to the entertainment, social, and self image (among many other things) aspects of playing this game. The ways you can gain prominence, excell, get friends, make a splash, whatever it is they are talking about (swords and money are prime examples).
When someone takes that from you or offers to sell it to you, it has real world implications to their lives that are no less real than anything else. It does not matter what social construct it is.
Going down to my local club where every girl is dressed up and dancing is also complete surreal to the normal world around me. And if I drive up in a nice car (+5 pimp/has money) and wearing a rolex (+3 nice job) it has effect on that world too. And it's the bsuiness owners job to make it as surreal as possible just like a game... with flashy lights to make the girls look better, and drinks to.... make the girls look better (and the guys too).
It's all about power and these people are just living it with a game as the medium. But it's no less real. Odd maybe, not so accepted, yes, but it's very real... as that guys rage in killing someone demonstrates quite well.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Personal responsibility surrenders. Its not the game. Its not the weapon. Its not the sex. Its the person!
When there is internet cafe's in WoW Inns and Taverns on which I can read the news, read slashdot and even play online games such as WoW.
... mmmm!!!
And what sort of conspiracy that my verify word was 'sorcery'
EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
I used to play EQ a lot, I was pretty hooked on it for about a year. I don't regret it, since I had a lot of fun times, but looking back, I certainly burnt a lot of hours in Norrath. My brother got really hooked on it too, and he's not even the complete nerd that I am. There were certain people there who were pretty terrifying though. For example, I often heard people talking about how they were skipping school in order to spend the day playing the game, and my brother once even got paid (EQ money, but still) to guard someone's character while he took a nap at the keyboard. This guy was so thoroughly obsessed with the game that he wouldn't leave the computer - not even to sleep.
Take these stories as warnings. You might not think yourself capable of such things, and okay, I doubt you'll end up killing anyone, but even a stupid little game can become a major feature in your life if you're not careful. Especially when you have to pay per month, since it's so easily justifiable - you're only getting your money's worth, after all!
K, why would someone kill someone else over something as intangible as the way they honor their preferred deity? There are always people on the fringe of any group whose very fringiness make them outcasts. Online wealth is still wealth. People go to war for essentially the same thing; albeit on a larger scale.
I say, Let Natural selection decide who is the victor, People with intangible swords vs. people with tangible swords and questionable mental stability.0xB315AA8D852DCD3F3DCA578FD2E0BF88
I don't understand why people ridicule online life and view it as some trivial sideshow to "real" life. The history of human existence shows that people have a penchant for taking many things seriously. Many of these activities reside far outside the realm of pragmatic, utilitarian life. Whether it's being a sports fan, a serious gardener, a breeder of dogs, an avid golfer, a sailboat owner, or any of a thousand other activities, people can become quite immersed. If online gaming "doesn't count," then so many other activities that people invest time in do not count either.
Without these "hobbies," people would be little more than animals -- eating, sleeping, reproducing in the endless cycle of life that we share with even the lowliest bacteria. What distinguishes humans from animals (perhaps only quantitatively) is the extent that we can move beyond the mundane activities of "real" life and explore such a wide range of alternatives.
For the record, I, personally am not into online gaming or sports -- this post is not a personal rant -- but I can see how these activities can become a major part of a person's identity and daily life. As such, it is important to understand and respect (in a love-of-freedom sense, not a politically correct sense) the fact that different people value different things. Its not that some people go overboard on online life vs. real life, its that some people become immersed in a life that is different from the utilitarian vision of a standard life.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
... while some guy in Korea murdered another guy over a rare sword that existed only in an MMORPG.
CHINA, not Korea. It happened in SHANGHAI. Geez, do a little research, tens of thousands of people are going to read your submission...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8143073/
Here's a link to a phsychologist who's making his living on studying people who play MMORPG's.
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/
I've filled out his surveys for 4 or 5 years.
At the site you may find many tools for characterizing your personality type and how it relates to the alternate reality of the games. As well as analysis of how MMORPG's have affected people en masse.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
The sword was worth a good 5000 yuan on the open market. Adjusting that for GDP, that's around $3000 in the US.
Now how many americans have gotten murdered over $3000 or less? A lot.
The comment that was made in the blurb/article about not being able to differentiate between a game and real life is ridiculous. It's inflammatory and biased and baseless. Nobody is making a mental disconnect between the two "places". It's just people with anger issues. Some people get seriously pissed off when someone cuts them off in traffic. They tail them until they can beat the crap out of them. Other people might let their anger get out of hand over a discussion on abortion or religion or the invasion of Iraq or a sports team or getting fouled in a basketball game. Otherwise might do so because they felt screwed over in a game that they'd invested a lot of time in.
This is nothing more than more of the same crap that surrounded Dungeons & Dragons in the late 70s and the 80s.
r iticism_and_controversies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons#C
These people behave irrationally not because of the game, but because they are irrational, sick, or sociopathic people.
If these same individuals were in a knitting club, they'd be stabbing each other's eyes out with knitting needles and paying stupid amounts of money for fancy-assed wool to turn into butt-ugly sweaters and scarves. But we don't hear people telling us that knitting is evil -- probably because other people outside the knitting community understand what it's all about.
Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
In case you haven't heard how serious (read: messed up or funny, depending on your disposition) MMORPGs can get, have a listen to this:
http://wowseriousbusiness.ytmnd.com/
This was recorded from a voice chat on WoW. All I can say is...WOW...
All I would say is that this level of feeling is not some unique nerd-loser quality. See "World Series", "Super Bowl", "Championship Belt", "Formula One", etc.
...who met a woman, and dated her, as much in the World of Warcraft as in the real one.
She ended up leaving her husband and moving to an apartment near him just to be with him -- a college kid. Talk about insane!
Poor guy didn't know what'd hit him.
She was po'-white-trash with no job and no education beyond high school. Finally he got enough sense knocked into him to get away from her.
The kid is still addicted to WoW, much to the detriment of his grades and his social life. For all I knock the crap that passes for a "social life," sitting by yourself in a dark room playing MMORPGs sure isn't healthy!
I've been in some bad situations, but man: What happened to him sure makes me feel normal.
I do not believe that you can possibly identify a single country, except for perhaps Monaco and Vatican City, where someone has not been murdered for a sum of money less than 3000 USD. So I am not sure why gripe you have against the US that you feel the need to try and turn everything into a failing of the US "social experiment."
participating in a fantasy world. Usually, it's been their own, in their own heads; but now they manifest these behaviors in a public, communal fantasy world, in a way that is widely observable.
Of course, there now are regularly elements that are beyond the control of one person, namely other people; this is where the combination of fantasy and immaturity lead to "bad things".
It seems to me that it's just as much of a problem of having a "chronic need to escape reality" if you're blowing all your money at the strip clubs or nightclubs, going out to the movies every single night, taking recreational drugs to escape, or spending most of your waking hours inside an MMORPG.
... But again, all of it is ultimately "false", because those "friends" are only connecting because of the common addiction they share.
The way "reality" works in our world, entertainment = escape. The entertainment industry probably prefers you not equate the two so starkly, but I think it's just the facts. All of us have a need to disconnect from our daily lives (the "daily grind" as we so often call it), so we crave some "entertainment" to whisk us away from all those worries and stress for a while. But some people live for the escape itself, not for their lives as a whole. And that spells trouble.
Just because while playing an MMORPG, one might have a real connection to the "social aspects" of the game and so on doesn't mean it's any more "real" than other forms of "escape". Most people hooked on cocaine, heroin, or other drugs tell you that all their friends are doing it, and it's "cool" and so on and so forth, too. It does let them become a part of a particular "social circle" and attain a level of "popularity" they might not otherwise have had
And the trolling and flamebait never ends.
GGP makes a statement. Thin skinned GP take offense at what he obviously believe to be an attack on the U.S. and P spouts inane trolling crap.
And here I am answering for some reason to that crap.
I'm not the GGP but I'll take the liberty to re-phrase what he said:
"A lot of people have been murdered for less than $3000 in almost every country in the world."
There. I believe it's still faithful to the spirit of GGP's post which was something like:
"The man wasn't killed just for an imaginary object in an imaginary world. That object had a value of about $3000 and that is why he died."
Disclaimer: I'm not american nor I live in the U.S. I don't hate America, tho I probably hate a few americans. I also hate people in several countries in all continents. I'm probably a very spiteful person. A country is an abstraction. I can't hate a country any more that I can hate the color blue. But that's just me.
No sig
"Real" money is just a fantasy substance that people barter for. Money is not a fancy piece of paper, it's a delusion, that we all politely buy into to make trading easier.
Like some third-world currency that suffers boutes of inflation and counterfeiting, MMRPG money is ephemeral and unstable, but from a mathematical standpoint, economics does not care if there the resources are real or imagined.
Markets have judged the supply and demand and the perception of inflation/permanence have assigned it a conversion rate. And because there are a great many unknowns in how a game will develop or be managed, the markets may from time to time exhibit irrational exhuberance, have pyramids and bubbles, just like the "real" world.
It's not entirely impossible that some day a court might rule that income tax will have to be charged on game money for the simple reason that there is a market for it - just as if it was money earned in another country.
People are playing World of Warcraft, EverQuest 2, Star Wars Galaxies, etc. as a hobby or form of entertainment when they are away from work or school. And like every other hobby or form of entertainment, there will be some who do it way too much or way too seriously for their own well-being.
I work a regular, decent job like any other normal person. When I come home, my wife and I play World of Warcraft together. This is opposed to sitting ourselves down in front of the TV for 6 hours like many people do.
We have formed a guild with other working adults who treat WoW as a game, and not a replacement for life. We have a great deal of fun when we play without needing to be pressured by others to be involved in raiding or other activites every waking hour.
Yes, there are some people we know who are in the game at least 18 hours a day and treat raiding Molten Core as if it were more important than life itself. Yes, it is pretty sad. But if it weren't WoW, they'd most likely be squandering all their time obsessing over some other activity.
" I can't hate a country any more that I can hate the color blue."
Don't get me started on the color blue! Just thinking of the color blue makes me see red! I'm not a violent man, but if the color blue were ever hit by a bus and tasted its own blood, I would want to be there to see it.
In short, down with the color blue!
(except for the periwinkle shade, which is kind of nice.)
It's a popular meme that crime in America is "so high that it's not newsworthy." Crime happens all over the world and no higher in America than anywhere else. Crimes are more often prosecuted here than anywhere else, and many crime rates are proportionally lower here than in Europe. There are several places to look these stats up, but here's a site from Google that summarizes them:
Stats
Of course I am not going to quote you numbers, but I'm suggesting that this idea is not arguable.
In other words, you won't cite anything but will declare your argument inarguable. It's sad that this is what passes for insightful commentary on Slashdot these days!
5000 yuan is in fact $617, however, when you factor in per capita GDP, which is a very good indication of cost of living, you'll understand that $617 in China "feels" more like $4300 in the US. GDP is not only valid for comparison but its a much more meaningful comparison too. I'm not sure how the parent arrived at their number of $3000.
PowerLevel.com - A next generation marketplace for virtual items and services
I don't know about murder, but people do suicide over it (a recent event in the stock exchange where I work confirmed this to me).
Come to think of it, there's an awful lot of commonality between an MMORPG and the stock exchange. Hmm... you listening, Sony? I can imagine my level 63 Vah Shir warrior wandering into the main bank at PoK, right-clicking the banker and investing in the international equities market. All on the credit card. Corporate takeovers could be PvP raids. Thwack!
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
Of course, the bottom kinda dropped out of the sports card business, so maybe that's not a good example. :)
Regards, Martin
That's precisely what I'm always trying to point out to people. That this "new wave" of crime is the same old garbage, brought to a new medium by the same psychos who'd kill you for saying their baseball team sucks. Although I have no hard facts to backup this second idea, I speculate that the violent outbreaks over video games isn't even perpetuated by the geeks and nerds, it's a result of video games/PC Games becoming easier and popular enough that the same sick people who kill people over a football game are now playing video games. People weren't killing each other when games were BBS style and you had to be a true nerd to even figure out how to connect, play them, and appreciate the ASCII art. Most maniacs who are prone to kill people just don't have the patience, desire, and intelligence to do all that, but now that the technical knowledge required to play games is so little, your average joe-psycho can hop in and get pissed off in record time.
It's like somebody getting murdered over a $3000 baseball card. The card, in reality, isn't worth much more than the paper it is printed on. But to the people buying and selling cards, it is worth that much.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
people here seem to be talking about killing like if they had enough money from the murder then it's okay, that seems crazy to me
Nah, of course it isn't okay. What we're saying is, is that it is conceptually understandable.
If you say "some guy killed another guy for stealing his imaginary sword", the immediate response is "wtf?"
If you say "some guy killed another guy for stealing 3 grand from him", the response is more, "oh. one more murderer in this wonderful world of ours."
You don't condone it, but you can sort of see why he might want to do it.