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Microsoft Proposes Cooperative Research With OSDL
turnitover writes "According to eWEEK.com, Microsoft has proposed to work with OSDL for a 'facts-based analysis of Linux and Windows.' Could this just be a case of the fox contracting security for the hen house?" Martin Taylor, Microsoft's general manager of platform strategy, declined to comment on the specifics of what was discussed when he met with OSDL's CEO Stuart Cohen, only to say that they met.
I don't know if i would trust Micro$oft with any relationship involving Linux. They'll probably mess it up, try buying it to get rid of it, or patent some critical part of it, going by their history with software of course.
but maybe this isn't a plot by Microsoft to make themselves look better... maybe they just want to understand their opponent better. Go to the experts to arrange a fair trial and learn where they need to improve.
Anyways, I've been wrong before.
Perhaps Microsoft will lure away all of the OSDL developers (aka Mono & the head of Gentoo) with money for starving developers to take the wind out of Linux. Just tractor beam in all of the major talent and learn from the "enemy."
They had better have really deep packets to try take the wind out of Linux. They have deep pockets, but not deep enough, I'm afraid. Besides I think that their stock price would suffer if they spent enough of their money on this to make a difference.
More likely it is just one more aspect of Microsoft struggling to understand Linux. My suggestion is say "Sorry, Windows is beyond our focus. But if there are other areas you would like to work with us on, such as maybe improving the GCC on Windows, we would love to have your cooperation."
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
The fox has stepped forward and expressed an interest in guarding the henhouse.
Which henhouse?
Well, specifically, he wants to guard the special henhouse, the one within which the hens are manufacturing tanks, semiautomatic rifles, and other weaponry for the purpose of defending themselves against and possibly overthrowing the foxes.
Now, what do you think is the fox's motivation here?
And more to the point, why the hell does everything on slashdot always come down to strained metaphors?
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
``facts-based analysis of Linux and Windows''
Regardless of whether you think this is a good idea, and regardless of whether OSDL is going to take the offer, I just don't think any _meaningful_ "facts-based analysis" of Windows vs. Linux is ever going to happen.
The problem is that there are so many aspects that matter in such a comparison, and so many different Linux distros that get these aspects differently from the next one; so many potential users of either OS that have differing needs with respect to those aspects, and so many aspects that are not going to be covered in any given study, that basically any study conducted by yourself or someone else is going to be less than what you need.
If someone else conducts the study, they are going to cover some issues that are important to you, but not others. For example, they are going to find that security updates work better under the Linux distro they evaluate than under Windows, but ignore the fact that one application your business uses doesn't run on Linux. Or they are going to find that many applications don't run under Linux and suggest that switching to Linux would severely reduce productivity, whereas no such thing would happen in your particular case.
If you do the analysis yourself, you are not going to be aware of certain things. For example, I could well imagine that someone doing the comparison would notice differences and similarities on the surface, apps that do and don't run, how it takes time for people to adapt if they make the switch, etc. but not find that eventually, some employees are going to really take advantage of the new features and use the shell to greatly boost productivity. Or that this shiny distro they opt for is going to be a horrible mess come the next major upgrade, because of RPM hell. Or that an open-source effort is currently underway that will provide an app that is just what their business needs, but it will only run on one of the operating systems.
I believe that the only way to _really_ determine if Linux is right for _you_, is to actually look for (with the help of more experienced users) a distro that matches what you want to get out of your computer, install it on a computer that it works well with (don't go telling yourself that Linux isn't user friendly because it doesn't support your wireless network card), and run it for at least a full upgrade cycle. Get used to the way things are done on your system. Customize it to better match your desires. See how the distro copes with everyday needs. Maybe report on what you don't like, and let people recommend you a different distro based on that; then try that one and see if you like it better. Ask more experienced Linux or Unix users how they would do things. Maybe even try to do some programming or at least scripting on your distro, and then on the system you were switching from; just to get an idea of the functionality you don't use now, but could at some point. In other words, evaluate how the system fits your current needs, how well it behaves over time, and explore all the capabilities it has to offer. This will get you a much better insight in what Linux (and Windows, if you're thinking of switching the other way) has to offer you than any study conducted by others.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Show me one quote where Linus thinks Microsoft are in any way "good guys" - however you or he defines "good guys."
Yes, Linus is not a "free as in beer software" fanatic. However, he DOES believe in open source and in Linux as a process and a product, as well as a technology challenge. The latter may be what floats his boat, but he's not exactly an SCO supporter, either. And he's not stupid.
Stallman may be a socialist or semi-socialist or pseudo-socialist or whatever, but even the GPL allows people to sell open source software as long as the source is included.
Bill Gates and Microsoft have NEVER been about free as in freedom OR free as in beer, ever. Go back and read his "You Hobbyists Steal Your Software" rant and his poker days at Harvard.
Why should anybody in OSS concern themselves about "cooperation" (in other than a technical interoperability sense) with Microsoft?
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Mmm, let's see. 48 Billion in hand (I think that's what's left in cash and after the last dividend, not counting other financial assets). Say they spend 100 grand on hiring each developer, they would only be able to buy less than half a million developers. How many developers are there in the core Linux team?
48 Billion in hand (I think that's what's left in cash and after the last dividend, not counting other financial assets). Say they spend 100 grand on hiring each developer, they would only be able to buy less than half a million developers. How many developers are there in the core Linux team?
You misunderstand the problem.
Microsoft can hire all sorts of Linux Kernel Programmers. Many of the top tier programmers will not be easily hired, so you will have to focus on the second tier (which is, I think, where a lot of the actual programming is done). Many of these are hired by other companies. Redhat, Novell, Cray, IBM, SGI, and others. These companies often have a fair bit invested in Linux and can't just get by on fewer developers, so they will fill in the ranks. There will be some loss there but not enough to justify the money that Microsoft will be spending.
Now, lets say that Microsoft hires 300 second tier Linux developers at 100k each plus benefits (lets say 130k to be conservative). This means that it is costing them nearly 10M dollars just to retain these people for a year.
So now IBM, et. al. have hired and ramped up 300 more developers. People see that Linux Kernel Development has career potential and more people are interested. Wash, rinse, repeat and voila it is now more expensive the next year.
This is money which *actively* reduces Microsoft's profits. Yet, it doesn't accomplish a whole lot. Indeed it could actually hurt Windows marketshare as bright programmers see all the indications that Linux development is where it is at.....
So you have two problems:
1) Microsoft creating a larger job market for its competition and
2) Microsoft paying lots of money for very temporary delays.
Microsoft could hurt Borland by hiring all their C compiler developers. However, Linux is far different. There are many magnitudes more kernel developers out there on Linux.
Ultimately Microsoft would find themselves overwhelmed by sheer numbers much like the US-led forces were overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of Chinese crossing the Korean border when the Korean war really got going.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Let me see: "facts-based analysis of Linux and Windows." I really don't think that the word fact and microsoft belong in the same sentence where Linux comparisons are concerned. Now, if this was Microsoft wanting to work with OSDL on a common driver architecture, DRM or some kind of Windows/Linux_whatever API integration then that's something else. Why would MS want to work with OSDL on a 'facts based comparison' ? Because they want the facts to turn their way and I am sure they have some kinf of evil plan along this line. OSDL, run far far away from this.
a statement like that was clearly not thought through
No it wasn't, but it is typical of a lot of comments here about Windows, that are based either on a lack of knowledge or out of date information.
As you say, of all the things to rail on Windows about, a lack of user permissions most certainly isn't one of them - unless you've only ever used Win9x. In that case though, it's somewhat like bemoaning the state of Linux desktop environments, based purely on having used RedHat 4...
It's official. Most of you are morons.
> I'm not certain why you all think this is insightful?
It wasn't. Just a knee-jerk response that has nothing to do with the story.
> And les you all forget, there is some good code buried under all that other stuff that MS puts out. If MS ever got their act together and stripped away the bad code and added bits and pieces from others in the Windows domain. They could actually have something that would compete.
Are you refering to something specific, such as web servers? Because it would appear that overall Microsoft is doing a reasonably good job of competing. It's not like Linux & Co. had anywhere to go but up.
The unofficial
Hmm.
<sarcasm>
So I guess that's why they brought out MS Office for Linux instead of MS Office for Mac.
</sarcasm>
Did know that a low-end Mac sold with a boxed copy of Office often makes more money for Microsoft than it does Apple? (Gross margins on software are 80%+ compared to gross margins of 20% on hardware.) Yeah, Microsoft must really hate Apple.
Apple is no threat to Microsoft. If Mac doubled it's marketshare, Microsoft's revenue from it would increase.
Linux, if it can get its desktop act together, is.
I have no problem doing that in a Linux environment.
Not a troll or anything I just don't know how (I don't think the help functions and knowledgebase are that great either).
Considering that much Open Source work involves trying to figure out what the other guys are doing I would expect that Redmond is interested in knowing 1) how much OSDL has learned about their products. 2) what has OSDL learned about Redmond's competitors... 3) what methods does OSDL use.. In essence, industrial espionage...
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
First off, Linux FSs have ACL available and they are the same as Windows (but as in chairman gate's word, "we want to be equal, just more equal", eh comrade?).
Yes, only with the advent of SELinux though. MS has had the functionality for a very long time.
Most Linux rarely use ACL
Yeah, unless you count hacks like sudo which are meant to emulate ACLs.
MS is adding the same style unix permission
MS isn't "adding" anything. ACLs, by their very nature, *automatically* support unix style permissions. ACLs support everything unix style permissions do and MORE. There's no need to add anything.
And yes, MS's longhorn willfinally gain the simplicity such as sudo.
What are you talking about? MS has supported that kind of functionality for MANY years now. It may not be well know, but there are free, third party apps that do exactly that.
Cheap ass wifi cards are a problem in general. Even under WinDOS, with the best drivers out there, a crappy wifi card is going to be an excruciating experience for the n00b simply because the antenna is crap and XP will tend to lose it's mind over this.
NO ONE should ever bring up crappy wifi hardware as a reason to use WinDOS.
Linux wins hands down in that area simply due to relative simplicity and transparency.
XP is still subject to bitrot and crippling spyware and trojans.
Ubuntu wipes the floor with XP at this point.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.