Slashdot Mirror
AOL Fined for Making it Hard to Cancel Service
andy1307 writes "CNET is carrying an article about a settlement between AOL and New York State that includes AOL paying a $1.25 million fine and agreeing to reform its customer service procedures. The agreement stems from consumers' complaints that AOL customer service representatives would either ignore requests, or make it unduly difficult, to cancel their service, according to a statement from Attorney General Eliot Spitzer. The policy probaby had something to do with rapidly declining customer numbers at AOL as more Americans switch to broadband."
why anyone would want to cancel AOL.
Now, if they could just do something about those CDs...
All I had to do was move to a different state, change my name and get a new social security number. After that, no more bills.
The software that AOL runs on keeps throwing a divide-by-zero exception, just as the following:
try {
int i = iRevenue / iNumExistingCustomers;
} catch (...) {}
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
From TFA: "Previously, AOL would distribute bonuses in the "tens of thousands of dollars" if representatives were able to retain half the customers who called to cancel their service, according to the attorney general." This just further goes to prove Scott Adams, the Dilbert comic creator, correct when he said that all management incentives lead to weasel behavior. Of course, it helps when they receive weasel directives in the first place. Also, is it too late to clone Eliot Spitzer? We need at least one of him per state, preferably more.
When I used AOL for a dialup ISP during the summers, I never really wanted to cancel. I just said I wanted to cancel, saying the features aren't everything I was looking for in an ISP. Then I waited for the free offer of another three months. It was a great way to get an ISP for the summer.
Count me among the hoardes that hate AOL. I have horror stories.
This article deals with one of them. I know a lot of people who have a hard time cancelling their service with AOL. My dad tried cancelling the service three or four times and ended up sending them a certified letter to get them to stop bugging him.
Another issue I have with AOL is that AOL digs roots very deeply into your computer. I don't know if this is still true since I haven't seen anyone using the service in a while, but it used to do stuff like replace your built-in dial-up networking functionality with its own, and even replacing various parts of the TCP/IP software and system files with its own. Uninstall? Useless. I've completely reinstalled many people's computers just to get AOL off of them. It's ironic that now their ads pitch the service as a way of protecting people from stuff that screws up their computer.
I've also dealt a lot with "This thing isn't working" complaints. People who can't get through, people who do get through but only very slowly, people whose other software starts experiencing mysterious problems, and so on ad nauseum.
There's a reason that AO "Hell" has such a bad reputation, and whenever anyone I know says, "America Online has a good deal on Internet service; I think I'll sign up," I always tell them, "I highly recommend against that, and no offense, but if you do, don't call me to come fix your computer."
The company I work for had a brief co-branding partnership with AOL, and as a result, all employees were offered a free year of AOL service. I work in the IT department, and almost everyone I know turned it down because the service, even free, just wasn't worth it. Actually, come to think of it, one guy I worked with gave his account to his parents and then spent the next year fixing their computer...
And speaking of AOL's declining membership and miserable service, I guess Time Warner has to be feeling a little bit better about their decision to drop AOL from its name. Ooh, cheap shot.
Meanwhile, if you're experiencing problems cancelling AOL, try one suggestion I found: call the phone number on your credit card statement.
RIP, Doug Adams
Serves the bastards right...about 10 years ago, my GF at the time had AOL and cancelled...they just kept debiting her checking account, regardles of the flood of angry emails, snail mail letters, and phone calls she loosed upon them. In the end, she had to talk to the bank and persuade them to stop paying out to AOL. We could have stopped the abuse more easily by simply closing out the account, but she flatly refused to do that, on general principles (she was a very stubborn woman).
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
Are there any ethics in buisness, or is it just about the money?
I tried to cancel my cousins service over a year ago. I was on hold for over half an hour. I hung up and called back, but this time selected "new customer" and I had a person on the phone right away.
Why should a new customer get a person on the phone right away, and someone who wants to cancel service must wait a long time?
Maybe one good first law is to say "the time wait for an existing customer must be less than the time wait for a new customer". That would gaurentee that customers can cancel without having to wait and wait and wait for someone to anwser their call.
A good second law should be that a customer can dispute any service and does not have to pay for that month. If a customer disputes too many months, the service provider can drop them. But that might stop the bad service. If AOL has an outage, or dial numbers are busy, then the person should have the ability to dispute that days charge and not pay. This should be very easy to do, and not require more than 1 minutes time of the consumer.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
I just got my mother off AOL today. I read about how people would call, be harassed for 30 minutes and then told AOL wouldn't allow them to cancel. However, I read one post where they guy claimed he told them he sold his computer and was moving to Europe, and it took him 3 minutes flat.
So I told her to say she was going into hospice. She saw it as a game, so she even timed it. It took 1:30 min with the operator, who talked about how sorry she was for her.
That's how you do it. AOL only lets you go if you have a terminal condition.
"Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
The policy probaby had something to do with rapidly declining customer numbers at AOL as more Americans switch to broadband.
I imagine it had more to do with the hundreds of thousands of obnoxious free ipod chasers signing up for accounts and then cancelling them.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Because he's the only public servant I know who actually IS a PUBLIC servant- as opposed to a bribed-and-bought puppet of the corporations.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
And who gets the fine? Not likely the consumers that had the problems to start with.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I work at a credit union (the largest in the world), and we get people calling in *all the time* complaining about AOL/TW ignoring or being hostile about cancellation. I'll admit, i'm not going to assume much about the intelligence of AOL users, but still, if everyone is having the same problem, there's got to be something to it. It is absolutely the #1 problem company for cancellations, even above magazine subscriptions and people calling who tried to cancel their internet pornography.
Actually, I would hate for AOL to stop giving/sending/forcing out their CDs... I mean, they are pretty much the #1 source of ammo for my home made spinfusor. I might as well have unlimited ammo hacks...
I was once on a physics discussion board, and they where using the AOL CDs as capacitors... They would solder a small cable to one of the sides (top side, obviously), then stack them 50/100/250 high. I don't remember numbers, but some guys said it worked excellent. I think one of the guys was using a five-pack of these AOL CDs to fire up a Tesla Coil... I don't recall it's use... but I've always found very amusing a "Tesla Coil anti-pissing-dog application" :::
You hook-up your Tesla Coil to a metallic trash can (has to be of the above-ground type)... then, when your most-hated man's-best-friend comes along and takes his typicall piss, you fire up the coil...
You can imagine what would happen when 375,000 volts shoot straight up the dog's winnie.
I haven't done this, and I suggest against it... but for some idiotic reason, I crack my self up laughing every time I think about it.
-AJ
[There... my 1st /. post =) Now if I can nail down how they make the italics and bold letters... and those nifty hyperlinked text phrases...]
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/aug/aug24a_0 5.html
.
AOL TO REFORM CUSTOMER SERVICE PROCEDURES
Settlement Requires Company to Remove Obstacles
Consumers Face When Seeking to Switch or Cancel Service
Attorney General Eliot Spitzer today announced an agreement that requires the nation's leading internet service provider to reform its customer service procedures.
Under the agreement, America Online (AOL) will alter the incentives it offers to customer representatives who seek to persuade subscribers not to cancel their service.
"This agreement helps ensure that AOL will strive to keep its customers through quality service, not stealth retention programs," Spitzer said.
In response to approximately 300 consumer complaints, Spitzer's office began an inquiry of AOL's customer service policies. The investigation revealed that the company had an elaborate system for rewarding employees who purported to retain or "save" subscribers who had called to cancel their internet service. In many instances, such retention was done against subscribers' wishes, or without their consent.
Under the system, consumer service personnel received bonuses worth tens of thousands of dollars if they could successfully dissuade or "save" half of the people who called to cancel service. For several years, AOL had instituted minimum retention or "save" percentages, which consumer representatives were expected to meet. These bonuses, and the minimum "save" rates accompanying them, had the effect of employees not honoring cancellations, or otherwise making cancellation unduly difficult for consumers.
Many consumers complained that AOL personnel ignored their demands to cancel service and stop billing.
The agreement requires AOL to:
Eliminate any requirements that its customer service representatives maintain a minimum number of "saves" in order to earn a bonus;
Record all service cancellation requests and verify action on the request through a third-party monitor;
Provide refunds to all New York consumers who claim harm based on improper cancellation procedures, up to four months worth of service;
Pay $1.25 million to the state in penalties and costs.
The claim form for New York consumers seeking refunds is available at Attorney General Spitzer's web site http://www.oag.state.ny.us/internet/internet.html
Spitzer thanked AOL for working with his office to resolve the matter.
The case was handled by Assistant Attorney General Elizabeth Nieliwocki, under the direction of Kenneth Dreifach, who is Chief of the Attorney General's Internet Bureau, and with the assistance of Special Assistant Attorney General Gille Anne Rabbin and Investigator Vanessa Ip.
Attachment:
Claim Form
Long ago, in a far away land called USENET visitors from the land of AOL would come and make damn fools of themselves. They would ask for the dumbest things and threaten non-AOL users that they would be kicked off the Internet because they were going to complain to AOL. Some were clueful or polite but rarely, often they would ask for advice about downloading Pr0n or Warez.
Any such question would be followed up by no less then 6 more requests of 'ME TOO!!!!". If they found your email address they would send you mail asking for advice about Pr0n or whatever. Mostly they would ask if you were a young boy or girl.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
OMFG yes.
I worked at a fairly sizable local ISP (40000 dialup customers at the time) when 5.0 came out.
We served a lot of rural areas- upstate NY; adirondacks. So a lot of people would dial into our service so they could run AOL over the top.
Installing 5.0 completely hosed EVERY other dialup connection on the computer. And a good portion of the time, it would hose LAN connections too!!!
Christ, I will never forget how the phones were lit up for the next 3 weeks.
There was supposed to be a class action lawsuit over that version, but i never heard what happened to it.
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
I beg to differ. When big companies fall off the pinnacle, there's a tendency to blame some outside force, like broadband.
The truth is customers left because they didn't find any value in AOL's services, evidenced by the rapid non-adoption of AOL's broadband service. My mom had AOL for years, she switched because of all the silly ads she had to sit through.
AOL fell down because they were no longer relevant to their market. Same thing will happen to Microsoft, Intel and Dell. Any big company that starts treating their customers like a revenue stream. It'll take longer, but it'll happen.
The really strange thing is the people who ran AOL into the ground will all walk away with big, fat bonus checks and option buy outs. Just like in the Bush administration: Failure is not a problem.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
If they would put Firefox, OpenOffice, and other nifty open source software in the extra space on those CDs, people would keep them around instead of throwing them in the trash.
1) Why would AOL distribute apps that they don't control or support?
2) Those CDs would quickly become dated as new versions are released. Geeks wouldn't keep them around because they can generally download what they need.
3) Not to stereotype, but do you think the typical user who is interested in AOL dial-up service is also going to be interested in trying new/different open source apps?
4) Would this typical AOL user be remotely interested in the philospohical arguments behind F/OSS or even care that those arguments exist?
Oddly enough, there are situations where F/OSS is not the answer. People that try to push F/OSS where it doesn't belong are at best wasting their (and others') time; at worst they are being counterproductive and hindering F/OSS adoption with their zealotry.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
I went through a similar odyssey when I tried to terminate my Verizon Wireless cell phone account. Their web page has all sorts of automated ways to sign up for service or to modify your service. The one thing conspicuously absent is the option to terminate service. I had to call customer service and deal with a "customer retention specialist" who did everything possible to to try to talk me out of terminating my account. He was very manipulative and it really pissed me off.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I called them and after waiting on hold in the retention queue for about 10 minutes got someone.
They asked me why I wanted to cancel and I said their web browser was bloated and slow, and I preferred Firefox. They said I could minimize the AOL app and run IE if I wanted (I pointed out this didn't change the fact I was running a bloated CPU hogging program on my machine) then I said I also couldn't use my own mail program (this is before they allowed the IMAP access, so I couldn't send outgoing mail from my other email accounts since there was no outgoing SMTP server).
"So you want to use Outlook Express for your email?"
"No, actually I use Mozilla Thunderbird."
"What?"
"Mozilla Thunderbird," I said more slowly.
"Okay" the rep said "I have no idea what you're talking about." [little giggle]
"Perhaps we should skip this little interview then?" I answered coldly.
Bing. Got it cancelled immediately.
Now removing AOL, that was the hard part. I wanted to do it immediately, because they have that great EULA clause that if you sign on to AOL anytime after you cancel (which isn't hard when AOL makes itself the default everything in Windows), you're consenting to the reactivation of your service.
I had both versions 7 and 9 installed (for some reason the v9 "updater" just installed a second copy). My hard drive must have cranked away for over 45 minutes while the uninstaller ran. But it was still in the registry somewhere. For months after that, besides the IE 6 "provided by AOL" I would see my old screenname pop up in the most unlikely places when doing filling out web forms or on AOL/Netscape pages.
I work in "retention" (meaning I take cancellation calls) at an AOL call center. I'm ashamed of what I do here but the money is so damn good that I'm doing it anyway, bad karma be damned.
The "saves rate" expected of us is 65%. Incredibly, we have to get two thirds of the people calling to cancel their AOL off the phone without canceling them. This pressure to hit these numbers causes retention agents to due some pretty unscrupulous things.
In training we are told a bunch of bullshit about the "value" of AOL. But that's not how it works when you get out onto the floor. Here's how it really works: You be a very good listener, repeat back to the member the cancellation reason as though you agree with them to give the member the feeling that you are to cancel their account. You be extremely nice to them and show empathy. This is to get them to let their guard down. Then you ask them to get a piece of paper and write down your email address and you start talking about keyword this and keyword that to confuse and distract them. Then you read the "full disclosure" which is a statement that basically says your account is not canceled. If they are not listening closely they will get off the phone with the feeling that you have cancelled the account even though you didn't.
Once you practice and polish the technique it works amazingly well especially on people who don't speak real good english, older folks, inner city types who have little experience dealing with good salespeople, hillbillies in Alabama and people who are just plain stupid. And since they are stupid they typically don't look at their checking or credit card statements and many months may go by before they notice that AOL is hitting them for $23.90 a month in automatic withdrawals. Do the math. It's a lot of money for AOL.
I am ashamed of myself. But my last job was tech support and I made $9.75 and hour. Here I make about $28 an hour. As soon as I save enough for a down payment for a house I'm getting out of here.
I had a dial up contract with Tiscalli and tried canceling when I got broadband. When I rang up, they insisted that the only way they could cancel was if I told them the order reference that came with the paperwork when I took out the service. Since this was several years ago I did not have the paperwork, but no matter what information I could give them, they could not tell me that order reference, and so I could not cancel. I did talk to my bank about blocking payment, which they were happy to do, but warned me that Tiscalli could then give me a bad credit for non-payment of bills. I finally resolved it by pretending I was just ringing up to get the order reference 'for my accountant to complete my tax returns'. They gave me the order reference straight away. Possibly someone more cynical than me would claim that they were deliberately putting artificial barriers in the way of customers canceling their service, but I could not possibly comment.
One night when I was house sitting my grandma's house, where there was only a dial up connection, I got bored and started drinking. After about 6 beers, I found an AOL disk and decided to install. I screwed around with it for a few hours and went to sleep.
I obviously didn't want the account, so I called a few days later to cancel it. They completely refused to close it. They basically told me that I had to wait the remainder of my free month to cancel the account. Not wanting to do this, I straight up told them that I signed up for the account when I was drunk and bored, and I never planned on using it. The AOL guy told me (dead seriously) that what I did was "extremely dangerous" and I could get myself in "a lot of trouble" doing things like that. He said that if I ever did that again, there could be "serious consequences."
Needless to say, I took extra care to watch my credit card at the end of the month to make sure they didn't charge anything.