Forms of Alternative Transportation to Work?

puargsss asks: "For many people a bicycle is not a viable form of transportation to work due to lack of storage space. Are there any products out there suitable for transportation to a working environment (the ability to store them inside is essential), or a detachable/retractable set of wheels similar to heelys that are built for a working environment? I normally rollerblade for sport/exercise, but it is fairly unprofessional to show up in my workplace with the rather large and clunky traditional equipment. Any ideas?"

Comments

Your feet.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not too clunky, and you can take them inside with you.

Re:Your feet.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's rude. I always take off my feet before going inside. (Maybe it's a cultural thing, but where I come from, stumbling on bloody stumps shows more respect...)

Re:Your feet.

[NanoGator]

"Your feet. (Score:1, Informative)"

Informative...?

Somebody with mod points read this and said "Hey! He's right!!" ...????

it's not a lack of storage space

[Bill Dog]

It's that I'd have to ride on busy streets to get there, and I'm too young to die (or worse).

Re:it's not a lack of storage space

[jhoger]

We're all too young to die.

Plenty of people ride bikes in busy areas, and are not dead, myself included.

Ride with traffic, follow the rules of the road, ride conservatively (never assume a driver can see you), have proper reflectors and wear bright colored clothes at night (a white t-shirt will do). Oh, and don't ride in the gutter. Occupy your space in the lane, so that everyone knows you're not kidding... you're IN the lane, they HAVE to move.

The good thing is that sensible drivers will go out of their way to move completely around you.

-- John.

Re:it's not a lack of storage space

[ces]

I hate to break it to you but you are probably safer riding on a busy street than on a narrow rural highway.

For one thing traffic is moving slower and drivers are generally watching for hazzards such as other drivers, pedestrians, and even bicycles.

Also in a built-up area there are often quieter streets running alongside the busy arterials that can be used for bike commuting.

The biggest trick to safe bike-riding in traffic is to be aware of your surroundings at all times. Mostly this means looking around while you are riding rather than locking your eyes on the road 20 ft ahead of you. BTW this is a good habit to have in a car or on a motorcycle as well.

Re:it's not a lack of storage space

[Neil Blender]

It's that I'd have to ride on busy streets to get there, and I'm too young to die (or worse).

I have ridden 2-3,000 miles a year on the streets of Seattle for the last 15 years. I've wreked a number of times, but I'm obviously not dead and have never been seriously hurt. You just have to be very aware of your surroundings and sometimes choose routes that are longer but safer.

On a side note, I have actually noticed a decrese in the number of bike commuters this summer. Usually, there is a big spike in the summer but it has not happened this year (my wife noticed the same thing independently). My theory is all those fair weather riders bought bus passes and are too lazy to ride if it isn't saving them gas money.

Xootr Scooter

[VermifugeRT]

I know this is SO 2001 but the scooter has really been a life saver for me. I was never happy with the cheap $50 scooters you can pick up at the local Toy Mega Stores so I did a little research and found the Xootr Scooter.

They are a little expensive starting at $150. But you will find the construction to be far superior to any razor scooter with its sturdy frame and large 7" (180mm) wheels. It cruises like nothing else. Taking very little effort to gain and maintain momentum.

I opted for the Xootr Mg ($189) with a solid magnesium deck. It comes in under 10 lbs and is east to fold and carry. Fits nice under my desk at work and take up very little space in my home. Pick up the shoulder strap to make transportation even easier on crowded streets or into your place of business.

Re:Xootr Scooter

[poolmeister]

Try a real scooter, something like a Piaggio or Gilera with a range of 50,125,180,250,500cc engines.
I have a Gilera 180cc 'Runner' scooter, which has ample under seat & back box storage, keeps my shins dry in bad weather and goes upto 80mph, really nippy in-between tight traffic and you'll always be able to find a free parking space.

Re:Xootr Scooter

[justforaday]

You forgot to mention that it's great to use for picking up your date!

Re:Xootr Scooter

[VermifugeRT]

A "REAL" scooter as you put it isn't as practical in long distance commuting situations. Real Scooters cost money to run, and are just as expensive to part as cars. Do you want to spend upwards of $400 a month to part your "REAL" scooter? I would not recommend any one take a "REAL" scooter over a bridge or onto a busy highway or freeway.

A kick scooter is great for getting to and from local public transportation, or quickly (and effortlessly) to a destination within your major metropolitan area. But hey if that

Re:Xootr Scooter

[VermifugeRT]

As a matter of fact my girlfriend and I BOTH have kick scooters. They are a great way to spend a Sunday afternoon. We both enjoy taking them down to the lake and spending some time in the sun. A pastime I'm sire is not popular among the typical /. Community ;)

Re:Xootr Scooter

[cloudmaster]

Funny, I ride a real scooter on my 140 mile, 3+ hour round trip commute every day. I think that qualifies as long distance. It involves riding over bridges, riding on rural highways, and riding on semi-busy freeways (as well as riding in town). If you're not competent enough to ride over a bridge (where did that come from?), then you shouldn't be riding in town, either. You probably shouldn't even be on a two-wheeled vehicle. I sure wouldn't recommend taking a foot-powered scooter onto a highway, freeway, or on a long-distance commute, though.

BTW, my real scooter averages 68 MPG cruising at 70-80 MPH (top speed is over 95 - I haven't had opportunity and inclination to push it farther yet). Beats the pants off of one of those stupid half-electric cars in mileage, acceleration, and cost of purchase, insurance, and upkeep. It's also actually fun to ride, as opposed to "just transportation".

Anyone paying the same price to park a motorcycle as a car pays is being screwed - find another parking area that recognizes the size difference between a truck and a motorcycle. If nothing else, split the cost with another biker and share the spot.

"But, what about the rain and snow?" I have a car for the worst of those days (though a little rain's fine - I have a rain suit for that). The mileage gain more than offsets the cost of the scooter, even driving a car a few months out of the year - and I get lower insurance rates because my car's not driven as often as typical cars. "What about groceries?" I can fit 4-5 bags of groceries in the under-seat storage area, and there are saddle bags / trunks / racks that can be added for more capacity.

Have fun dealing with inclement weather / shopping / long trips on your foot-powered scooter. I'll bet those tiny, smooth tires are great on wet pavement, and that you move real well scooting into the wind. Traveling must be great fun, too.

Re:Xootr Scooter

[VermifugeRT]

Ok flamebait. You think everyone chooses the same mode of transportation when commuting as they do in all other situations? Most people who use mass transportation or alternate forms of locomotion during commute are still competent drivers. Choosing not to drive is a conscious choice, and not always necessity.

Faster: Metro and Bus lines are faster
Cheaper: Operating any motor vehicle is going to be more expensive the further you commute for gas, insurance and parking (not to mention vehicle maintenance)
Environment: Spare the air - less polluting

All of these are going to raise in importance exponentially if you are commuting to the burbs to a major metropolitan area. The more populous the area is, the greater the need for alternate forms of transportation.

As for your little parking remark. Try puling that off in a city like NY, San Francisco or LA

Re:Xootr Scooter

[cloudmaster]

Reread the post, and see if you comprehend better next time. Here are some hints: I didn't say anything about the competence of people who take mass transit or that ride a child's toy to work. I did say that people who can't ride a bike safely should probably not ride a bike. I have no desire to work in or even visit NY, LA, or anywhere else where people apparently are forced to pay outrageous parking fees but are too stupid to take that into account when determining whether they can afford to take a specific job or not.

I guess I'll also point out that having a vehicle that's useful for commuting *and* getting groceries is generally more handy that having something that you can only take to work. If you save a few bucks on parking at work, but have to spend more to do everything else in your life, you're not really saving anything.

As a bicycle commuter...

[Otter]

...my advice is to buy a junker bike, lock it outside, and if it gets rusty or vandalized, so be it. Maybe there's something I'm not getting (please explain if that's so) but I can't imagine a workplace where there's _nothing_ to chain a bike to.

The only such situation I can imagine is where you ride so far that you need a good road bike that you can't leave locked to a parking meter. But if that's so, wheelie shoes are hardly a workable alternative.

Re:As a bicycle commuter...

[Bastian]

Or heck, go all expensive and buy a folding bike, and keep it under your desk.

Re:As a bicycle commuter...

[ArmorFiend]

When he complains about "lack of storage space", is he complaining that his bike can't hold enough crappe? Or that he has to store the bike inside at work?

Many workplaces pay building fees for a security person, and also parking fees per employee. If you explain to your boss that the cost of installing a bike rack is smaller than what they're paying in parking fees for just one month, and that a bike rack could be placed either right by the security kiosk, or right under the nose of a security camera, you might convince them to go to bat for you.

Re:As a bicycle commuter...

[ces]

A good road bike with a not-flashy paintjob seems to work pretty well too.

I have a fairly nice bike but it has a bean-green paint job which seems to deter theves a bit. At the very least it gets messed with much less than my old hardtail MTB with a flashy paint job did.

FWIW most bike thieves are opportunistic so even using a cheap lock to secure a wheel to the frame is enough in most places to ensure your bike is there when you get back. (note I don't reccomend this in high-crime areas, for stops of more than 20 minutes or so, or where there aren't many passerby)

Try a folding ccooter

[kiore]

like the ones that were all the rage with children a few years back.

On flat ground you move about two to three times the speed of walking & if it rains you can fold it up and take it in a bus or taxi.

My personal experience is pick one with relatively large wheels and stay very alert at all times, stones and broken paving that you wouldn't even notice on a bicycle will throw you off.

Unprofessional?

[Seumas]

So showing up to work in a giant 4,000lb gas guzzling, exhaust spewing, parking-space using hung of metal is professional, but a pair of wheels on your feet is not?

This makes about as much sense as those people who judge employees based on whether or not they're married and have kids.

Get to work however the hell you want. If your boss somehow insists that you use one method over another, the fat fucker can pay for it.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Darnit]

If storage is an issue with this alternative transportation method then just store they alternative in the vehicle that you can't afford to drive. It's just sitting there anyway, taking up space. It is just like getting a free mini-garage for all your stuff. Small stuff in the trunk, bigger stuff in the back and pasenger seats.

Re:Unprofessional?

[macshit]

Hey you could even make a bit of cash by renting out the back seat to homeless people (they do usually have some money, just not much)! Don't give the keys of course. Unless they pay more.

I must admit I'm a bit confused by the assertion that commuting in roller-blades is "unprofessional." This isn't the '60s -- it's quite common these days to see young professionals in expensive suits showing up to work using whatever wacky transportation is fashionable and freshening up once they arrive (well at least in big cities; maybe Podunk, Iowa is a bit more staid).

Re:Unprofessional?

[wasted time]

Good point but any vehicle with a trunk is probably just a little too large to leave next to his desk. I think his lack of space is at work, not home.

Re:Unprofessional?

[tacocat]

Well, in a word, "yes".

Especially when you consider the following:

• Most people commute 30 miles or more.
• Many companies have dress codes that might make you rather sweaty in July and August if you biked to work (or any other human powered method).
• Companies believe in an image. Even if that means aristocratic demonstrations of hierarchy.

Try going to work in 90% of the companies in America and you'll find the same thing true.

I'm in a horrible condition. I work in Detroit at one of the Big Three automotive companies. This means two things -- Detroit has effectively no public transportation that anyone would consider without a large hand gun and you are expected to drive into work in a shiny new clean 6,000 lb SUV because you're supporting the company.

I drive a VW Diesel to work and they hate me. But no one can meet my 600 miles per tank.

Re:Unprofessional?

[nurb432]

Ah, you must not work in the professional world, where these things DO matter..

Your clothes, where you live, what kind of car you drive all factor into your career options in the 'professional' world..

Be it right or wrong, its reality.

Re:Unprofessional?

[deranged unix nut]

Find a gym near your place of work.
Bicycle to the gym, use their shower and locker room. Walk or bicycle the rest of the way.

I live in Seattle. Last year, I lost 5400 lbs in one day!

I traded in my car for a road bicycle, pedaled 40 lbs off of my body and I have been commuting by bicycle for almost a year. I love bicycling to work, even in the rain. My employers have locker rooms where I can shower and stow my sweaty clothes, and I save time by exercising while I commute.

BTW, when I started bicycling, I weighed in at over 280 lbs and I was in no way what anyone would describe as physically fit. Since then, I did a 200 mile bicycle ride from Seattle to Portland, and I have bicycled 60 miles with a 3300 foot climb in a morning.

Re:Unprofessional?

[It doesn't come easy]

Cool idea, except that you don't really save time while bicycling to work unless bicycling takes less than an hour or so (assuming you would work out for about an hour a day). For me, it would take 4 to 5 hours one way because unfortunately it is a full hour with no traffic jams by car to work (and on very busy highways to boot). Of course, I'd love to find work closer to home but at the moment it's not possible.

However, for those in the right place, bicycling to a gym near your place of work to freshen up and change clothes is a very good idea.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Seumas]

Okay, maybe I just work for a rare company, but I wear jeans and a teeshirt to work. I didn't want a long commute, so I moved to within three miles of the office. If I were to take a sweaty method of transportation, I'd just take a shower in the campus gym.

I'm a tech geek in a 40,000 employee technology company. I don't interface in meatspace with clients, so as long as I'm not showing my nuts and disrupting coworkers with my manner of dress, nobody could really care any less. I presume(d) that most of the Slashdot audience falls into such a category.

If most other corporations are as uptight as you describe, I think I'll continue to stick around where I'm at. :)

Re:Unprofessional?

[fm6]

Be it right or wrong, its reality.

You must be new around here. Reality doesn't matter. Being right is what matters!

Re:Unprofessional?

[angle_slam]

Cool idea, except that you don't really save time while bicycling to work

The point isn't to save time. It's to make yourself healthy, while not polluting the environment.

Re:unprofessional?

[Karma Farmer]

No kidding. I'm really not sure what kind of professional job this guy has, or exactly what his constraints are. If he has a job where the dress code actually matters, nothing short of renting a locker at the gym where he can keep clean and laundered clothes will help. You're not going to keep your shirt pressed in a backpack, never mind pants, tie, and jacket. I've never had much luck with shoes, either, but I"m a damned careless hippy.

On the other hand, this is slashdot. The guy probably works as a telemarketer, where "professional" means "I can't wear the rollerskates at my desk, and I can't a backpack to carry a pair of shoes."

Re:Unprofessional?

[deranged unix nut]

For the past few years, Cascade bicycle club has conducted an experiment where two people do the same commute for one day, one by biycle and the other by car. For the 30 minute in-city drive, in the past few years, the bicyclist has arrived within a minute or so of the car.

For a while, my bicycle + bus commute from Seattle to Redmond over the 520 bridge was only about 15 minutes slower than by car.

That said, depending on the urban planning of your area and distance between your home and work, commuting by bicycle may not be feasible.

If you can bicycle, it can save you money, give you exercise, reduce your stress, possibly save you time, and help preserve the environment all at the same time.

When I added up car payments, fuel, repairs, insurance, and non-reclaimable time, and environmental impact, I decided that car ownership was too expensive for the little benefit that I got out of it.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Baloo Ursidae]

Most people commute 30 miles or more.

Only if they're dumb enough to live in a different city than the one they work in. Or Los Angeles (but that's kind of redundant, calling Californians stupid).

Many companies have dress codes that might make you rather sweaty in July and August if you biked to work (or any other human powered method).

Most bikes equipped for commuting have plenty of space to carry a change of clothes as well as personal effects. I commuted 15 miles by bicycle for years wearing a t-shirt and jeans or shorts. Get to work, change in the restroom.

Companies believe in an image. Even if that means aristocratic demonstrations of hierarchy.

Thus damaging their own image and alienating their talent pool.

Detroit has effectively no public transportation that anyone would consider without a large hand gun and you are expected to drive into work in a shiny new clean 6,000 lb SUV because you're supporting the company.

That's like saying folks who work at Bombardier have to drive to work in a Type II LRV, even if there aren't any light rail tracks and they aren't qualified to drive a train.

You have options. You refuse to acknowledge them. This is your own fault.

Re:Unprofessional?

[NeMon'ess]

If you're taking a jab at Californians for the liberal politics, I'll point out that while LA is known for it's web of freeways, the Bay Area has some of the best public transportation in the country. LA finally built the Metro when they realized it'll only cost more if they wait. If they double or triple it's reach, they just might be able to have busses fill in the gaps and have adequate transportation with fewer cars.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Baloo Ursidae]

If you're taking a jab at Californians for the liberal politics,

Nope. And I hate to break it to you, but California is a conservative state. You inflicted Reagan on your neighbors. You're trying to inflict Arnold on your neighbors. You enabled both Bush presidencies. You caused the power crisis, then blamed your neighbors. Your trash visits then forgets to go back to California (folks in Washington, Colorado and Arizona can also attest to similar Californication of their states). Fuck California and everyone in it, you are the embodyment of everything the world hates about America and you prove it time and time again.

I'll point out that while LA is known for it's web of freeways, the Bay Area has some of the best public transportation in the country.

And yet, your transit system doesn't put a dent in your traffic problem. Portland has some of the worst public transportation in the world, and it's still more comprehensive and runs more frequently than any other US city, save for New York.

Please pull your head out of your ass and realize why the world laughs at you.

Re:Unprofessional?

[NeMon'ess]

The state has had more Republican governors lately, but the legislature has has made the state's laws most definitely liberal.
Arnold's approval has declined to 30-something percent.
Califonia went to Gore in 2000.
The power companies illegally exploited the poor wording of CA's power deregulation.
CA didn't have a negative net domestic immigration rate until 1990. Frankly I think the influx of illegal immigrants has played a large part in causing that.

When BART struck and the trains stopped, traffic on the freeways became far worse. Rush hour started an hour earlier and stayed backed up or slow until an hour after it usually does. So the transit system most certainly does put a dent in the problem.

How did you manage to be wrong about so many points? Are you blinded by hate? Oh wait, you can't see up your own ass.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Baloo Ursidae]

The state has had more Republican governors lately, but the legislature has has made the state's laws most definitely liberal.

Yes, eliminating legal safeguards and allowing critical utilities to privatize was in everybody's best interest. Catering to illegal immigrants is in everybody's best interest. Oh yeah, that's sure liberal all right, you don't put money exclusively in the pockets of the rich at the expense of the entire region, oh no...

The power companies illegally exploited the poor wording of CA's power deregulation.

That passed unanimously in both houses of the California congress, elected by Californians. Shows some real intelligence there.

CA didn't have a negative net domestic immigration rate until 1990. Frankly I think the influx of illegal immigrants has played a large part in causing that.

Once again, you cause your own problem through lack of inaction, then spread the consequences to your neighbors instead of dealing with your own problems yourself. Compare the northwest prior to 1990 to after 1990. Tom McCall is probably turning in his grave given what the Californians have done to the place.

How did you manage to be wrong about so many points? Are you blinded by hate? Oh wait, you can't see up your own ass.

No. I'm a patriot. I love Oregon for what it is, not what you're trying to turn it into.

Re:unprofessional?

[bitingduck]

Skates (along with helmet, pads, etc.) can pretty much disappear into a backback or gym bag, especially low-cut 5 wheel speed skates, which are faster anyway. If it's a problem you just change before you get to the building and walk the last block or so.

I work at a fairly large company and there have always been at least a few execs who bike to work. But this is SoCal, where a newspaper column I read several years ago pointed out that you could be sitting in ratty cutoffs and a tank top at a sidewalk cafe and have someone walk up and ask if that's your Ferrari that's illegally parked (and have it likely be the case).

Re:Unprofessional?

[NeMon'ess]

Nice, so when you're wrong about some of the points you just ignore them like you were never wrong in the first place.

About the power situation, I acknowledged that mistakes were made, but the companies were at fault also.

Funny thing about illegal immigration, the voters passed prop 209, which was very anti-illegal immigrant, but the courts struck it down. The Border Patrol is the Federal government's job. I blame them. Liberals tend to be compassionate, but even many of them realize one state can't afford to provide benefits to wave after wave of illegals coming from all over Central America.

As for immigration into Oregon, I have some interesting statistics. First of all, have you looked at the net migration numbers lately? Immigration into Oregon slowed from 53,700 in 1993 to 18,833 in 2002. It's also predicted to stay below 33,000 through 2011. Also, while in 1994 Californians accounted for 80% of the net migration, in 1995 they were 55% and just 45% in 1996. I'd certainly like to see more recent numbers in case lots of the migration is actually coming from states other than California.

Frankly I find it sad that you're so upset that someone else found a slice of paradise and wants in but you don't want to share. It's like ultimate NIMBY isn't it? Regardless of whether the migration is from CA, NY, or TX.

What's with hiding behind the patriot shield? Are you saying it's unpatriotic to migrate around the country? Did being a patriot make you ignorant and wrong about so many of the points?

Re:Unprofessional?

[jellomizer]

Well being that if you get to work all sweaty and stinky, and most business buildings don't have showers in them. Yes it could be considered unprofessional. I am sure the company would love it when they have a share holder meeting and on the tour they wonder in the IT area and get a smell of intense BO, will seem very professional.

Re:Unprofessional?

[jellomizer]

Most people commute 30 miles or more.
Only if they're dumb enough to live in a different city than the one they work in.

Umm it is not dumb when the cost of living 30 miles away from the city could be half of it is in the city, as well as fewer crimes and a quieter area. I would gladly travel 30 miles and back to get to work even if gas as at $5.00 a gallon. Because the price of my house that distance away is much more affordable and taxes are way cheaper. The $10 dollars a day for an average good mpg car, is better then the cost of living in the city and riding your bike every day. and here is a news flash. Not all people live in cities. Their are areas like suburban and rural area in which people live too.

Re:Unprofessional?

[anthony_dipierro]

Umm it is not dumb when the cost of living 30 miles away from the city could be half of it is in the city, as well as fewer crimes and a quieter area.

That explains why one might want to live 30 miles from the city (though it is probably an exaggeration, I doubt the cost is half). Doesn't explain why one might want to live there and still work in the city.

Personally I'd be willing to do it temporarily, and I have. But as a permanent solution, it sucks.

and here is a news flash. Not all people live in cities. Their are areas like suburban and rural area in which people live too.

Here's another. Not all people work in cities.

Re:Unprofessional?

[arkanes]

If the city in question is NYC, 30 miles can absolutely be half (or more) of the cost. A hole in the wall apartment in Manhattan can easily run you $3,000 a month. Outside of the city (maybe an hour commute, by train), and you can get a very nice place for $1500.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Rude Turnip]

Only if you work for assholes does it matter. I work for an old, well-established and well-regarded financial services firm. There are, let's see...only 3 "luxury" cars in the car park, with the rest being mostly domestic sedans and *gasp* pickup trucks. We live in anything from apartments to houses to farms and the dress code is casual (but not slouchy). Everyone is evaluated in terms of the quality of their work and the nature of their character. The point being that the reality of the "professional world" is whatever you make of it.

Re:Unprofessional?

[numbski]

Well, I'm in St. Louis, I'm starting a company, and the offices HAVE to be downtown, both to get decent internet throughput (providing network services) and to qualify for tax credits. I live in the suburbs. I'm trying to do home office via OpenVPN and VOIP and such as much as possible, but there are times that nothing replaces going into the office.

That said however, a staple of a business such is this is that there are times that emergencies happen, and we have to get to the client's site in a hurry. I wish it weren't so, but a bicycle won't cut it in that situation. Even if I could get there fast enough, the whole professional appearance thing kicks in. Not so much arriving on a bike as opposed to a car (with gas prices as they are, I'm sure I'd get more than a few "ooh, I wish I could do that"), but showing up at a client all sweaty usually isn't the best, and simply changing clothes won't fix that. :\

I need a portable bathing solution that is fast and effective I think. ;)

Re:Unprofessional?

[Baloo Ursidae]

I need a portable bathing solution that is fast and effective I think.

It's called a sponge.

Re:Unprofessional?

[duffbeer703]

The nice thing is that the 4,000 lb beast includes climate control, so you don't smell like a pig in the office.

If you don't want to ride a bus, bike or train to work, take a cab.

Re:Unprofessional?

[gstoddart]

That explains why one might want to live 30 miles from the city (though it is probably an exaggeration, I doubt the cost is half). Doesn't explain why one might want to live there and still work in the city.

Well, I can confirm that for cities like San Francisco and Toronto, the cost of housing right downtown (or near downtown) is massively more expensive than housing further out in the city or in the surrounding suburbs.

I knew people in San Francisco who had commutes of up to two hours because they could either have a house with a yard and the right number of bedrooms, or spend the exact same amount of money on a little wee thing nearer the city that was probably in disrepair.

I'm sure other metropolitan centres are very similar.

Re:Unprofessional?

[deranged unix nut]

Don't forget about those hidden costs to car ownership.

Let's say you commute 30 miles each way with $3/gallon of fuel, get 30 mpg, buy a $10,000 car every 5 years, and pay $100/month in insurance.

$6/day for fuel * 52 weeks * 5 days/week = $1560 / year in fuel
$100/month for insurance * 12 months = $1200 / year for insurance
$10,000 for a car / 5 years = $2000 / year for the car
Throw in car washes, repairs, and parking = $500 / year

So, that car is costing you $5,260.00 per year.

Next, what is your time worth? Does it really make sense to drive for 1-2 hours a day just to get to work?

Re:Unprofessional?

[MoonBuggy]

Reality doesn't matter. Being right is what matters!

I'm not entirely sure of the tone in which you meant that, and I'm inclined to think that it was sarcastic, but I actually think that's a very insightful statement. My interpretation: If you accept what the current reality is, nothing will change, and you won't feel good about the world because what you feel matters is not what you are doing. If you do what is "right" (in terms of what you feel is moral, what makes you happy, what you think will make things better, etc.) and accept that that is what really matters then you will end up much better off.

That's my overanalysis anyway :)

Re:Unprofessional?

[elebrin]

Having lived in the detroit area for quite a while, I can back up the parent's post. I know people who work for particular companies, and if they drive the wrong vehicle to work it will get keyed. These companies expect their employees to support the company, and punish those who don't. It makes one wonder if this isn't a cause for some of the problems that the automotive industry has.

Re:Unprofessional?

[ces]

Frankly I find it sad that you're so upset that someone else found a slice of paradise and wants in but you don't want to share. It's like ultimate NIMBY isn't it? Regardless of whether the migration is from CA, NY, or TX.

Sigh, I must admit I liked this area a lot better before everyone went and 'discovered' it.

Still as you point out it isn't as if we can stop people from moving here. Besides I'm not sure I'd like to see the changes that might cause people to start moving elsewhere.

Re:Unprofessional?

[fm6]

I pretty much agree with the opinions you state. ("Reasonable men adjust themselves to their environment. Unreasonable men attempt to change their environment to suit themselves. Therefore all progress is the work of unreasonable men." George Bernard Shaw.) But I'm afraid my comment was pure sarcasm. Somebody who insists that they're taking a moral stand by refusing to "dress up" is just exercising their ego. Not all battles are worth fighting.

Re:Unprofessional?

[gumpish]

This makes about as much sense as those people who judge employees based on whether or not they're married and have kids.

I take it you've never worked in a place that has deadlines.

Re:Unprofessional?

[petard]

Eh. I prefer to live in half the space (not in disrepair though) for the same money, close to the city and my office rather than spend an extra 20 hours a week polluting the environment from my car. I'd just fill the extra space with more stuff anyway...

To each his own, though. I know many people who'd rather have the extra space and stuff than the extra time. We all make our own trade-offs, I suppose.

Re:Unprofessional?

[bluGill]

I don't want to work in the city, I want to earn enough money to pay for my life, have room for my hobbies, and neighbors that don't complain about my hobbies. (See the typical restrictions on a townhome) Jobs that will pay for that are much easier to find in the city, thus I live 50 miles from work.

Your right it sucks. It is a compromise. I'd love to work from home, but I'm not allowed with this job. I'd love to live next door to work, but their offices are not next door, and the other people I work with want to live elsewhere anyway.

Unless you can tell me where I can buy 100 acres of land, on a lake, next to a golf course, with good schools, with plenty of night life (bars, theaters, shopping), and several churches (in our small office of 15 I know of 5 different Christian sects, and 1 Muslim), plus it needs to be just as close to our spouse's job (for those co-workers who are married). I'm sure there are more factors that the various people I work with would love to have, but you get the idea.

Re:Unprofessional?

[gstoddart]

Eh. I prefer to live in half the space (not in disrepair though) for the same money, close to the city and my office rather than spend an extra 20 hours a week polluting the environment from my car. I'd just fill the extra space with more stuff anyway...

To each his own, though. I know many people who'd rather have the extra space and stuff than the extra time. We all make our own trade-offs, I suppose.

Well, the persons in question were all married and had several kids.

I'm sure for a bachelor, or a couple with no kids, you can do what you do.

In this case, the quality of family life outweighed the need to commute by the father. Sometimes it's not a matter of if the extra space is merely convenient, but if the people consider it to be far more essential.

Cheers

Re:Unprofessional?

[Brandybuck]

I live in California. The heart of Silicon Valley to be precise. I commute precisely 1.2 miles to work. That's much much better than my Oregonian friend who commutes 30 miles.

Before you attempt to remove the speck in your Californian neighbor's eye, remove the chip on your Oregonian shoulder first.

Re:Unprofessional?

[RomulusNR]

Only if they're dumb enough to live in a different city than the one they work in. Or Los Angeles (but that's kind of redundant, calling Californians stupid).

See, I really hate people like this -- people who have no problem with uprooting themselves every year or two to shuffle 20 miles away because their job has moved. People who can find work that allows them a salary in which to house themselves and their family in the same dense urban overpriced core -- or who don't mind spending way too much for housing.

Wait, these people don't have families, because they have no social skills, and so remain loners and put on false facades of superiority over those who don't have to worry about the effects on their family members and other ramifications if they suddenly up and ship off across state, country or world.

It's nice when you can get it, but you're not better than people because you have it. Grow up.

Re:Unprofessional?

[anthony_dipierro]

Jobs that will pay for that are much easier to find in the city, thus I live 50 miles from work.

If you're putting yourself through such a commute every day, I sure hope it's impossible to find a job that will pay for your needs, not just harder. Personally I find it hard to believe that a job in the city pays that much more that it could ever be worth such a long commute. In just one year you've probably spent over 13 40-hour work weeks just in commuting. Would you give up your 100 acres for a 3 month vacation? This is without even factoring in the cost of all that commuting, both in direct costs and indirect ones.

Re:Unprofessional?

[anthony_dipierro]

The cost of living, especially when working in a city like NYC, consists of much more than just the cost of an apartment. The train alone is going to cost hundreds of dollars a month. Now add parking fees at the train station, because you're not going to get a place within walking distance to the train station very cheaply. This is without even mentioning all the indirect costs. Adding 10 hours to a 40 hour work week is going to raise at least some of them.

Re:Unprofessional?

[anthony_dipierro]

In this case, the quality of family life outweighed the need to commute by the father.

I'm sure the family life is just great with the father of the family never being at home.

Sometimes it's not a matter of if the extra space is merely convenient, but if the people consider it to be far more essential.

I find it hard to believe that it's ever essential, at least here in the US, for someone who lives outside the city to work in the city. It's always a choice, and I just don't see how it's ever a good one (on a long-term basis).

Short-term, fine, sometimes an opportunity comes up and you can't wait to move first and act later. But I'm specifically talking about doing this year after year.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Baloo Ursidae]

See, I really hate people like this -- people who have no problem with uprooting themselves every year or two to shuffle 20 miles away because their job has moved. People who can find work that allows them a salary in which to house themselves and their family in the same dense urban overpriced core -- or who don't mind spending way too much for housing.

So you hate common sense and love urban sprawl.

Wait, these people don't have families, because they have no social skills, and so remain loners and put on false facades of superiority over those who don't have to worry about the effects on their family members and other ramifications if they suddenly up and ship off across state, country or world.

No, in the real world, people develop skills to cope with change. It's not our fault you're socially underdeveloped.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Baloo Ursidae]

Having lived in the detroit area for quite a while, I can back up the parent's post. I know people who work for particular companies, and if they drive the wrong vehicle to work it will get keyed.

In Oregon, that alone is grounds to quit and still draw a salary due to hostile work environment. I suggest you do the same if this is a problem for you.

These companies expect their employees to support the company, and punish those who don't.

In the manner you describe, it's 100% illegal for them to do so. Your state's bureau of labor and industries would be very interested in this.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Baloo Ursidae]

I live in California. The heart of Silicon Valley to be precise. I commute precisely 1.2 miles to work. That's much much better than my Oregonian friend who commutes 30 miles.

These results are atypical. Your mileage will vary.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Brandybuck]

Yes, they're atypical. But sufficient evidence that you shouldn't be waving the Oregon flag while condemning all of California.

Re:Unprofessional?

[petard]

Fair enough. My sample of people who chose half the space and less than 1/4 the commute includes 3 single guys, 2 couples with no kids, and 1 couple with 1 kid. My sample of people who chose twice the space and 4x the commute includes 1 single guy, 1 couple with no kids and 1 couple with 2 kids.

Whatever the reason, though, I was only implying that people decide what they value based on personal situations, not implying that my valuation wouldn't change if I went from a couple with no kids to a couple with 4. Though I do (since we don't have kids yet) maintain that the difference is mainly "stuff" and that kids who share bedrooms (as would be the case if we went down that path with our current living quarters) don't suffer major quality of life issues. That's likely just a frame of reference thing, I suppose :-)

At the end of it all, though, what I'm really saying is that I have a hard time imagining myself in a situation where a >4h/day commute beats out a 30m/day commute based on expanded living space. Not an impossible time, but it seems like a stretch given my personal values.

Re:Unprofessional?

[Zoyd]

Having lived in the detroit area for quite a while, I can back up the parent's post. I know people who work for particular companies, and if they drive the wrong vehicle to work it will get keyed.

In Oregon, that alone is grounds to quit and still draw a salary due to hostile work environment. I suggest you do the same if this is a problem for you.

These companies expect their employees to support the company, and punish those who don't.

In the manner you describe, it's 100% illegal for them to do so. Your state's bureau of labor and industries would be very interested in this.


It isn't company doing it. It is the UAW. UAW = Mafia.

Sorry, that should be "Try a folding Scooter"

[kiore]

mumble mumble preview mumble grumble

Re:Sorry, that should be "Try a folding Scooter"

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Still, that's a typo that brings to mind some odd imagery.

Re:Sorry, that should be "Try a folding Scooter"

[Momoru]

Your post is so much more hillarious if you pretend it really is about folding cooters though.

Re:Sorry, that should be "Try a folding Scooter"

[VermifugeRT]

Glad i did a quick spell check, i almost poot Xootr cooter

Re:Sorry, that should be "Try a folding Scooter"

[Telecommando]

I think I know her, I still have the scars.

Segway!

[mitulmk]

expensive, but elite-looking and no fuel costs. Drove one of these around campus, really intuitive controls, and extremely smooth ride.

Re:Segway!

[cecille]

Actually, I was in ottawa about a week ago and saw a guy in a suit driving one around the sidewalks. Looks like fun if you can swing the cost. Plus, you're not sweaty when you get there. Kind of negates the whole exercise thing, but it might be nice to get some fresh air and actually get out in the morning.

Re:Segway!

[Red Flayer]

No fuel costs?

What does it run on, air?

It has a battery that needs to be recharged. You pay for the electricity.

Of course, it is much more energy efficient than an SUV...

Vespa

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll be the heppest hepcat in town.

Re:Vespa

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

I've got a Vespa beat all to hell.

I ride a 1964 bright red Honda Super 90

Bought it as a basket case, spent 4 months rebuilding it. It gets 175 miles/gal, does 55 and parks like a bicycle.

It also is a great conversation starter "I had one of those in high school" is the most common.

Re:Vespa

[DZign]

Yep, that was my first thought too, if a walk is too far, cycling is not an option but you don't want a car, then get a motorcycle or a scooter or something similar..

If you look around there are options enough available.

Want to be retro/stylish ? Get a Vespa or similar.
I have an Aprilia Mojito custom myself, drive it since the beginning of this year, wish I had bought it earlier.. just as far as a car (faster if there's heavy traffic), doesn't use a lot of fuel, ..

There are scooters with luggage racks/boxes so you can take a lot of stuff with you.

And finally, if you want to look more 'executive' (as someone else said, in some companies it's all about looks) then go for a BMW C1.

Re:Vespa

[tverbeek]

if a walk is too far, cycling is not an option but you don't want a car, then get a motorcycle or a scooter or something similar..

A scooter is the one hole left in my Transportation Schema. I walk up to a mile or two for neighborhood errands, I bike or take the bus to work and bike for small errands up to about five miles, and I have a small car for laundry/grocery trips and out of town trips. What I still need is something that can take me on errands or to the movie theater across town without wearing me out (as the bike would) making me wait (for the bus) or waste fuel (like the car). A scooter would be perfect for that.

Skates, of sorts...

[Net_Wakker]

Try these in winter.

Re:Skates, of sorts...

[Anonymous Coward]

and in summer, these.

Eliminate the need for transportation...

[Triones]

by living in your cubicle.

Bonus: You can then read slashdot in office all day.

Re:Eliminate the need for transportation...

[krunchyfrog]

The parent should be modded as funny.

But at a job I had a few years ago, one guy had to finish his shift at midnight and start at 8am the next day. So he never went home, instead he actually slept UNDER HIS DESK for the whole night.

Cubicle Bike Rack

[cmallory.berserk.org]

I pretty much had the same situation, and I have a nice bike. So I built something for inside my cube. Details: http://berserk.org/cbr/ Hope this helps.

Re:Cubicle Bike Rack

[ksheff]

You have enough room in your cubicle for a bike? that would be nice

Folding bikes

[Turn-X Alphonse]

For years my grandad swore by his foldable bike. It folds in half and fits in the back of a car. No reason you couldn't get one of them.

Or as you said roller blades, they'll do the job just fine.

Re:Folding bikes

[XBL]

This one looks pretty sweet! I didn't even know these existed...

Re:Folding bikes

[cosmo99]

Bike Friday makes performance bikes that fit in a suitcase.

And if you need to, you can even haul the suitcase as your are riding!

I own their family tandem, modified to fit 3 people and it fits in two standard suitcases. No more $75 airline bike fees for me!

Lack of space...?

[merkac]

Get a Cubicle bike rack!

cross-pollinated via Make.

Dance your way to work.

[wasted time]

Here you go. Bonus points for looking like a haker^W hiker.

Flying car...

[slorge]

I was promised a flying car... Where is my flying car???!?!!

did you ask?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it actually against the rules where you work to bring a bike inside? Ask around (your manager, or the HR dept) maybe there is a storage closet you can use or an unused cubicle somewhere.

If you work someplace with tedious people who are not accomodating, maybe transportation is not your number one problem.

unprofessional?

[Yonder Way]

"I normally rollerblade for sport/exercise, but it is fairly unprofessional to show up in my workplace with the rather large and clunky traditional equipment."

If this is your excuse for not rollerblading, you're not likely to like anything anyone here has to pitch.

But honestly I think the problem is all in your head. I think if you had a backpack and stowed all your gear in the pack before walking in the door nobody could possibly object.

Yes, it's called a FOLDING bike

[linuxwrangler]

I've ridden my Brompton to various jobs for years. I don't know how many miles are on it but well over 4,000 since I finally put on a bike-computer. I got (at the time) top-of-the-line version along with extended seat-tube due to my leg-length, rack, and the nice removable front bag. I also added some more lighting and reflectors and replaced the standard seat.

Folding or unfolding takes 15-20 seconds and it is very small when folded so I can put it in any number of out-of-the-way places. It will fit under my desk if no other spot is available.

All told I probably have spent ~$1,400 on the bike, upgrades and maintenance. Assuming a very conservative 4,000 miles, my per/mile cost is $0.35. If the current IRS business mileage deduction rate of $0.405/mile in some way reflects average operating costs, then the bike became "free" quite a while ago. At current rates, fuel cost alone for my 30-something mpg car is over $0.08/mile so given my approximately 13 mile round-trip commute, I save about $20/month on fuel alone. Parking in the building would cost another $60/month. Incremental maintainence on the car is probably at least another $20/month. All told, it's easy to save $100/month and get some exercise as well.

It doesn't take long to pay for even a moderately pricey bike at those savings.

Re:Yes, it's called a FOLDING bike

[antifoidulus]

Question, what kind of bike computer do you use? I've been looking into getting one, but I would actually like something that dumps onto my mac and/or linux box. Any suggestions?

Re:Yes, it's called a FOLDING bike

[Anonymous Coward]

who says he's even using a bike computer?

Re:Yes, it's called a FOLDING bike

[antifoidulus]

who says he's even using a bike computer?
I'm cheating, but I think this line may have given it away:
I finally put on a bike-computer

Re:Yes, it's called a FOLDING bike

[dan_bethe]

Oh great. Folding bike. I hadn't even thought about that. Here I was all primed to make a dry joke about riding one of those sweet telescoping compact ladders (only $100 at Lowe's!!!) to stash under your desk. And you hadda come in with your sense-making.

Re:Yes, it's called a FOLDING bike

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot to factor in the cost of the gym membership you no longer need.

Sweat

[srobert]

"I normally rollerblade for sport/exercise, but it is fairly unprofessional to show up in my workplace with the rather large and clunky traditional equipment."

  In my workplace, it's unprofessional to show up soaking wet and smelling like a pig, which is what I'd be if tried to rollerblade or bike to work. I might consider a motorcycle for myself. But you might want to see if your employer will let you chain a bike to something that's not really for that purpose like a lamppost.

Want alternatives? Lobby your company for them

[Chakka!]

Many companies have incentives from city or local governments to reduce the # of parking spots or automobile commuters arriving at the workplace. Talk to your Company and ask the tough questions: what is this company doing to support alternatives to driving to work? Every place I have ever worked I've contacted everyone I could think of to ask about showers, changing areas, lockers, and parking for bicycles. Many times the answer is "We dont have any" but unless people ask for these things, why would a company build them? A few times I was suprised and the company relocated (from somewhere they were unused) or erected outside bicycle-storage lockers which I could then use. Its up to you... Participate in building the workplace/world you want.

Lacking room?

[one-eye-johnson]

Get a rickshaw. Not one of those weak passenger types-- one of the heavy cargo rickshaws used for carrying everything from melons to portable repair shops. It would be a wonderful conversation starter, very cheap, and theft-resistant. Erm, I'm not sure if they're sold outside of the PRC, though. Stupid Westerners.

Folding Bicycles?

[fm6]

I'm not a bike person (too uncoordinated), but when I think of "bicycles" and "commuting", I think folding bicycles.

Re:Folding Bicycles?

[Anonymous Coward]

"too uncoordinated" - Jesus christ, don't tell me you drive to work on the freeway.

There Are Solutions

[wintermute1974]

In my workplace, it's unprofessional to show up soaking wet and smelling like a pig, which is what I'd be if tried to rollerblade or bike to work.

Agreed, that's why you should shower once you arrive and change into a new set of clothes which you brought with you to work.

I have the good fortune to work in an office attached to a factory, which for OSHA reasons needs an emergency shower. I shower off, change into dress pants, shirt, and tie, then go sit in my "open concept" office all day.

The only exercise I get in an average week is the bike ride to work to and from work, which is about an hour a day. I just can't describe to you the total feeling of power and control that is possible after having biked to work. Driving a shiny metal box to work and drinking coffee afterwards just does not compare.

Besides, I have to admit that I am actually treated better by my bosses and co-workers. Because I bike, they have come to consider me the healthy, awake and alive, mover and shaker in the office. It gives me credibility that my fatter SUV-driving co-workers can't buy for themselves.

So, returning to the issue at hand: How can our "Ask Slashdot" poster get to work? My answer (sorry) is to cycle there. If there is no where to park at your office, that's fine. Find a place within a 5-10 minute walk that you can park and shower at and change there.

Ignore what you think the fat, ignorant sheep that make up the bulk of the population think. Lead by example. Show that you can exercise, enjoy the outdoors, and save the planet all in one fell swoop.

Incidentally, all that advice that comes out of California doesn't work for the rest of the world. These people ask: "Why not bike everyday to work?" Well, for people like me at 42 degrees North latitude, late fall / all winter / early spring have two distinct problems:

• It's pitch black during the morning and evening commutes
• It's cold outside, with snow on the ground

I'm sorry, but when my body starts to freeze to a block of solid ice while cycling, it's time to put the bike away.

And finally, to all you bicycle riders out there, a reminder: You are a vehicle on the road. Follow the rules of the road. Drive with traffic. Signal when you turn. Take an entire lane when you need it, and when you don't let others pass. If you do this, motorists won't go to pieces when they pass you, even if they don't want you on the road.

Re:There Are Solutions

[jericho4.0]

I live in BC, in an outdoor-sports mad town, and in the depths of winter I often see folks commuting on bikes in snowstorms. That's a bit much for me, and only ride when it's dry. Last year I was very fortunate and lived ~500 feet up a mountain from town, and had many days when I could ski to town, arriving at work not too sweaty and very awake. My coworkers were all like "Dude, skis are for old people, snowboarding is where it's at.", so maybe it was holding me back. I've since moved, and will no longer be able to do that, so maybe a promotion is in my future!

I don't understand where the guy works that he can't take a bike (bad neighbourhood?) but loses brownie points for rollerblading to work. Nice old ten speeds are cheap, and the most efficient form of transportation. About the 'unproffesional' angle; Screw the promotion and live the life you want. (to the naysayers; yeah, yeah, kids, responsibilities, drug habit, whatever.)

Re:There Are Solutions

[Anonymous Coward]

Suck it up and buy a helmet light.

I live in the northeast.
I inline skate to work in a T shirt until it hits 40F. Then I put on a coat. When it hits 0F, I wear ski goggles and a ski mask.

Cold cannot stop me, but ice and snow will. If they wouldn't plow the sidewalk, I'd be skiing or snow skating to work.
  Unfortunately, I'm stuck riding public transportation for roughly half the time between janurary and april.

Re:There Are Solutions

[Baloo Ursidae]

• It's pitch black during the morning and evening commutes
• It's cold outside, with snow on the ground

• I'm sorry, but when my body starts to freeze to a block of solid ice while cycling, it's time to put the bike away.

  Lightweight (but what do you expect out of California...).

  You're only 42 degrees north, you still have plenty of light after work and in the morning. And you know not what weather is. Shit, Vancouver and Whistler, BC are at 50 degrees north. Many winter mornings have snow at the upper elevations (and everywhere in Whistler), with sunrise well after start of business and sunset well before end of business every day. They don't bitch. Suck it up, Californian, prove there's at least one non-wuss, non-poser in the state.

Re:There Are Solutions

[Zachary Kessin]

Assuming that your office has a shower, mine doesn't. Well even if it did I would not be able to bike to work, my house is 50km away, and there is probably about 1000ft of vertical climb as well. Plus there are some areas that I would be afaid to bike threw for risk of getting shot at.

Right now I take a bus to work, its about 2 hours each way. (on a good day) but I can't afford a car yet and need the job.

Re:There Are Solutions

[bitingduck]

Well, for people like me at 42 degrees North latitude, late fall / all winter / early spring have two distinct problems:
It's pitch black during the morning and evening commutes
It's cold outside, with snow on the ground
I'm sorry, but when my body starts to freeze to a block of solid ice while cycling, it's time to put the bike away.

I live in SoCal now, but spent 6 years cycling to work year round in Minneapolis, and a year in Boston before that.

It's really not so bad biking in the cold (I still do it on vacation sometimes)-- you warm up faster on the bike than you do in a car that needs time for the heater to warm up. It's actually better in colder places, because dry snow and ice aren't as messy to ride in. When it's really cold (below 0 F) you just don't leave any exposed skin and it's alright.

There are also some really nice lights available these days-- 15-20 W is enough to see by up to ~25 mph, and if you're willing to spend some bucks there are the metal halide lights that can light up the road for a whole group of riders. Illuminite and Scotchlite are also not bad as supplemental reflectors-- they do wear out eventually, but they last a fairly long time and help your visibility.

If you just decide that it's normal to bike to work year round it's easy. It's generally more effort for me to drive to work (and not forget stuff that I'm supposed to bring) than it is to bike.

Folding Bikes

[Fuzzle]

Have you looked at folding bikes by Dahon or in the UK Brompton?

Transporters

[wideBlueSkies]

I for one can not wait for the day when I can be transported to the office.

Beam me over Scotty. :)

Re:Transporters

[Servo]

They call them buses 'round these parts.

Oregon

[Baloo Ursidae]

Oregon is full, so this really doesn't apply to people outside of Oregon (save for the tourists...remember to leave when you're done visiting). Oregon law requires weather-protected bicycle parking for most commercial and all government facilities. If you are in Oregon, and you can't park your bike, it might be time to remind them of their legal obligation to bicyclists.

Alternatives

[RealityMogul]

Unicycle
Skateboard
Cross Country Skiing
Moon Shoes
Stilts
Dog Sled
Hot Air Balloon

Ya know, this is why you're not getting that promotion. Fred's getting promoted cause he wears moon shoes. Get with the program slacker.

Re:Alternatives

[tomjen]

Why no paraglider - a good geek could build one him selfs - properly a hell to get a license, but anyway.

e8e3d50494900a3608982b45c0e76383

Re:Alternatives

[ChiChiCuervo]

you definately shouldnt' forget the Hindenpeter or the Petercopter!

Quit living in the past!

[Baloo Ursidae]

Ah, you must not work in the professional world, where these things DO matter.

Ah, you must not work in the 3rd millennium yet, where these things DON'T matter. You might want to join us, things are better here in the future. Even the September That Never Ended ended earlier this millennium.

Re:Quit living in the past!

[Money for Nothin']

Fine. Go to work for a Fortune 500 financial firm, then show up the next day naked (except for a tie tied around your cock), wearing a red-dyed mohawk, 30 iron earrings and nipple rings, and reading pr0n.

I guarantee they will sic security on you and have you escorted promptly to the edge of their property, if not hauled away in a police car.

Your clothes, your attitude, and other such bullshit *do* matter, and only a goddamn retard who has no job and has never been out in the sunlight of the real world could possibly think otherwise. If you are lucky, you will find a place to work that lets you wear jeans, a T-shirt, and sandals to work every day, as they did in the late 1990s. Most places require "business casual" (khakis and a button-up shirt, possibly a tie), and depending on the job function, possibly "professional" (suit + tie).

Then again, this is Slashdot, where the clueless post louder and more often than the clueful...

Collapsable Bik

[AvitarX]

Puma makes a collapsable bike here

Maybe too big still.

SEGWAY

[KJAM2005]

Think this is the best one around...http://www.segway.com/

Electric Bicycles

[sakusha]

For the people who don't want to arrive at work stinky and sweaty, try an electric bicycle. There are small folding models, as well as retrofit motor/battery kits for regular bikes.

Cycling is quite safe

[driptray]

It's that I'd have to ride on busy streets to get there, and I'm too young to die (or worse).

You might be surprised to find that cycling is no more dangerous than driving.

Follow that link. It leads to a "cycling safety perception" quiz, with some pretty surprising answers.

Re:Cycling is quite safe

[anthony_dipierro]

You might be surprised to find that cycling is no more dangerous than driving.

Depends on where you're driving/riding. If it's a road that wasn't built to handle bicycles, then it's most certainly more dangerous, not to mention illegal, to ride a bike.

Re:Cycling is quite safe

[cecille]

You know, I don't know where those stats came from, and they may well be true, but it sure doesn't seem like it. And this is coming from someone who commutes to work every day in a car and has never been in an accident, but got hit while riding a bicycle. Although, admittedly, I don't ride much anymore.

Here's the thing - no matter what anyone says about how "bicycles are vehicles" when I'm in my car, driving at 60 down the road, they sure don't SEEM like vehicles. My CAR is a vehicle. It is big, and heavy and moves fast. A bike is small and slow and so light you can actually pick it up and carry it. A car offers a measure of protection, bikes just don't. In a fight between my car and your bike, my car will always win.

Honestly, when I'm driving, I try to leave as much space as possible between my car and a bike and I think a lot of people do the same. It's dangerous becuase it crowds the other lanes and forces people into quick lane changes that can be dangerous to the cars as well as to the cyclist. I've been told (and told off) about this before because "bicycles are vehicles" and "cars shouldn't have to do this", but there is always that fear that something bad is going to happen, and the cyclist may need some space. How do I know that the bike won't hit a rock/grate/curb and tip right on over? Fall into the road, and if I'm too close, guess where my right tire is...yeah, that's right...not somewhere good. So I clear away. Because let's face it...even if you've given the bike space, if the biker falls into your car it is ALWAYS the car's fault.

Look, I don't mean to be down on cycling - I really admire people who ride instead of taking cars - it's great for the environment and for health. But when I'm in my car, it also seems like a great big giant hazard.

Re:Cycling is quite safe

[rossifer]

The only roads where it's illegal to ride a bike are limited-access highways that are posted as prohibiting bicycles.

Otherwise, it's not illegal, and it's just about as dangerous as driving a car on the same roads.

Plan your route to stay on back roads with speed limits of 35 or less (occasionally up to 45, but try to avoid these if possible). When riding on roads without dedicated bicycle lanes, you should tend to ride in the middle of the lane, to discourage cars from trying to share the lane with you. You may wish to move over and allow cars to pass when it is safe for you to do so (wide shoulder, middle turning lane, etc.). You should be able to sustain a pace of 20mph or faster, you should have high visibility lighting (not just reflectors) in the front and back of your bike, and your clothing/pack should be made from brightly colored fabric with reflective material for additional visibility.

But most of that is just common sense.

Regards,
Ross

Re:Cycling is quite safe

[Anonymous Coward]

sustain a pace of 20mph or faster

That would rule out cycling for almost everyone who isn't on the Tour de France.

Re:Cycling is quite safe

[rossifer]

Perhaps I should have specified "on level pavement". On uphill sections, even gentle grades, maintaining 20mph isn't going to be practical unless you're pretty fit and in good form.

I do believe that being able to maintain a reasonable speed is essential in order to be safe, and if you can't maintain a speed that won't frustrate car drivers, then I suggest limiting your riding to roads with dedicated bicycle lanes and clean, wide shoulders until you are fit enough to "get on the road". Not judgemental, as I need to do some practice riding to get back to that state myself...

The bottom 40-80% of cross country bicyclists maintain an average of 20mph for rides of 40-100 miles and more. The best riders are obviously faster. This is not an impossible goal, though it certainly will be a challenge for the average American.

Regards,
Ross

Re:Cycling is quite safe

[Anonymous Coward]

We probably need to more clearly establish what you mean by "sustain a pace of 20mph". If you mean "on a long flat road with no obstacles (crossroads)", then 20mph is an ambitious but achievable speed. On a normal tour however, even on flat land, I generally come out to an average of 12-13mph from point A to point B, and I hardly find stretches where i can really go faster than 17mph without ignoring hazards (like car doors opening into my way or pedestrians not looking where they go). I've also found that motorists are even less capable of sharing a road with fast cyclists than with casual cyclists (ca. 10mph). It doesn't matter that you have the right of way when the motorist on a crossing road doesn't see you. Hence the constant slow downs to be safe. It's also much more exhausting to go that fast because you're constantly braking and accelerating again.

Bicycles...

[DavidNWelton]

... are the way to go. They are the most efficient means of transportation in terms of how many kilometers you can go with X amount of energy (or so my physics professor said). This also means that, if it's hot out, you can go nice and slow and not arrive all sweaty. Things like scooters or in line skates might be ok if you have to involve a bus or some other public transport in your commute, but... otherwise nothing really beats a bicycle. And riding a bike is just so much more fun than walking or driving a car!

I agree 100% with the strategy of having a clunker for use around town. It might be more fun to ride a nice mountain bike around, but the peace of mind is really worth it.

Re:Bicycles...

[ces]

Things like scooters or in line skates might be ok if you have to involve a bus or some other public transport in your commute, but... otherwise nothing really beats a bicycle.

Check with your local transit agency as many have bike racks on buses nowdays. Even if they don't or you need to take a train or tram some have bike storage on board.

A bike can make a commute via public transport practical as you can ride to a transit center or area with a lot of commuter routes, throw the bike on-board, then use the bike to get to your final destination on the other end.

Re:Bicycles...

[martalli]

Most mass transit districts will accomodate bicycles. Almost every bus I have seen in the last several years has a bicycle carrier (for 2 bikes usually) on the front (St. Louis, Madison Co transit/East of St Louis, San Francisco, Indianapolis, and Washington DC). The trains in Washington DC and St. Louis both allow bikes, and I believe most ofther systems do, too.

With my bike in my office right behind me, I too absolutely agree bike commuting is a great way to go. If you absolutely must avoid sweating, a car with A/C and a close parking spot is the only way to go...any other method (eg, wheelie shoes) are just going to create sweat and (horrors) exercise.

I had an idea for segway style footwheels

[tod_miller]

You have one stapped inside/outside ankle, high up on ankle, only 1 inch or less of wheel is below your sole line, and for balance in motion, small rollers at front of shoe and back of shoe.

It has a built in 'balance' akin to segway, but instead of requiring batteries all it does is lift the wheel, and you are using your feet (roller lift also a bit), and you own (worse than segway apparently) bio balancing act. Want to move off? set wheels down and roll... dunno how tricky balancing would be though...

Probably impossible... might work.

Any one from the north east?

[jellomizer]

It seems like all other forms of private transportation requires you to be outside in the elements. I myself can handle getting wet in the rain. But when it is 5F below 0F and a wind chill of -20F I sure with icy roads or 1/2-6 inches of snow on them I do not want to take a bike, segway, scooter, motorcycle, or anything but (something with tracts or (4 wheels over and 1 foot radius)) and a heated cabin). and conversely when it is 90F with high humidity (Where you sweat will not evaporate off you causing to over heat no matter how much you drink) I would sure want a method where I could use as little physical effort as possible and being in an AC area would be better. For myself public transportation will not work because I am a consultant and I go to the clients location and many cases public transportation doesn't go there. So in short I must drive a car, and right now the car is still the best means of personal transportation.

Heelys:

[Anonymous Coward]

Freedom is being able to read about your product with installing a plugin.

Um... No, at least not here.

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I live in Cambridge, UK (the old university city) where cycling is a Very Big Thing. Many people use it as their main form of transportation, not least because 15,000+ university students aren't allowed to bring their cars with them when they come here to study.

Our accident statistics show that cycling is far more dangerous than driving by just about any measure you care to pick. Involvement in accidents, and the results in terms of injuries and equipment damage, are far worse at all levels for cyclists than for cars. And of course, many relatively minor accidents involving cyclists go unreported, whereas almost all accidents involving a car and causing serious damage or injury get into the records.

The quiz you linked to is a fascinating exercise in defending a position, but certainly isn't anywhere near representative of the situation in this cycling-heavy city. The questions are almost all loaded. In particular, the accident statistics for what they call an "enthusiastic cyclist" are much better than the average. They do concede that in Britain, cycling is more dangerous than driving, while apparently it's not in a few other countries. I'd be interested to see how many of those other countries use cycling as heavily as we do here in Cambridge. And I've never heard of the "Cyclists Touring Club", despite knowing people (and for several years being one of them) who cycle almost everywhere.

Perhaps we really are uniquely bad in this respect. God knows, there are plenty of local cycling enthusiasts pushing ideas to make cycling safer around these parts, and the local councils' pro-cycling measures are frequently attacked as being ineffective. But I'd like to know how many average people (not "enthusiastic" cycling club members) use a bike as their primary means of travel in the other places considered before accepting their conclusions.

Re:Um... No, at least not here.

[Anonymous Coward]

so... where are *your* stats? Or don't you need such trivial things in Cambridge?

And I would think a university population, would have to be adjusted because young people have more accidents via recklessness and drinking.

Re:Um... No, at least not here.

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

so... where are *your* stats? Or don't you need such trivial things in Cambridge?

I'm all for people being able to back up their claims, but please make at least a token effort to do some basic research before you chime in! More or less any sensible search in Google leads to numerous relevant pages: try "cycling accident statistics cambridge uk" or "cycle car relative accident rate" for example. Whether it's local cycling groups or national government statistics, the picture is pretty consistent in this case. And you could have found that for yourself in the time it's taking you to read this post.

And I would think a university population, would have to be adjusted because young people have more accidents via recklessness and drinking.

You might think that, but if you go try one of those web searches I just gave you, you'll actually know.

Future planning for alternatives

[tfiedler]

I'd love to bike to work but alas, I'd have to ride through the ghetto to get there. Sorry, I'm just not willing to risk personal danger for it. The major problem with alternative commuting is distance. We live about 20 miles from where I work and maybe 30 miles from my wife's office. We also have a teenage son and the price of admission (work transportation costs) for his safety and a good school district, is in my mind, well spent. However, nothing is permanent. We've made plans to move into the city once he graduates from college. It makes sense in many ways since we both like the cultural opportunities of the city and feel money and resources could be put to better use. Kansas City has ZERO reliable mass transit so our plans include scooters for transportation (yes year round) once we move. Point? If you can't use alternative forms of transportation right now, plan so that you can in the future.

Re:Future planning for alternatives

[MarcQuadra]

I'd have to ride through the ghetto to get there. Sorry, I'm just not willing to risk personal danger for it.

I've rode my bike through bed-stuy Brooklyn, Dorchester, Boston, and every dark corner of Providence (which, in my opinion, is much more dangerous than either) without a problem.

As long as you acknowledge people in the ghetto without appearing threatening to them, they're happy or indifferent to have you there. Remember that most ghettos are made up of hard-working minimum-wage folks who never got the education they should have or were tossed in jail for non-violent crimes. They tend to have VERY strong feelings about neighborhood solidarity and safety of families, which is where gang culture arises from.

Take a walk through the ghetto, keep your eyes open, nod at folks as you walk by, talk to them when you stop; You'll learn a lot by making the connection, and you'll have yourself safety wherever you want it.

The ultimate alternative transport

[ixirider]

I read your posting on slashdot about looking for alternative transport. You may want to consider our iXi Bike (www.ixibike.com). The iXi was designed to solve many of the problems you see with traditional bikes. They have replaced the traditional greasy chain with a maintenance free belt drive - perfect for commuting! I got the bikefor a 30% discounts (enter comp805 in shopping cart)

Sherpa's are all the rage these days

[Takehiko]

Find a sherpa to carry you piggy back.

You can't be serious.

[Anonymous Coward]

What is with all these posts? Rode a bike 13 miles one way? You start work at nine in the morning? So, what time did you leave your house - like 6 am?

Right now i live exactly 6.7 miles away from where i work, and taking my car during morning commute equals about a 20 minute ride. Even if i could keep pedaling non-stop at a nice pace of 10 miles an hour, it would still take me 40 minutes to get to work. Start counting the stoplights, plus the breaks to catch your breath, it will take you an hour and a half.

Now i'm moving further out of the city, to *gasp* a suburb, and i will have a 20 mile commute. I'm sorry, but i'm not an olympic cyclist, and i don't feel like getting up at 5 to get to work on time.

Further, try riding at that pace in the middle of summer, when it hits 90 deg. F. Can somebody say "dehydration", after 15 minutes of riding. Good luck getting anywhere in the middle of winter with a foot of snow.

I love taking bikes, roller blades, etc. WHEN it is FEASIBLE, but come on, nobody is going to go 13 miles on their rollerblades. It takes me an hour in rush hour traffic with my car.

As for saving on gas, buy yourself a REAL scooter (yeah, the one that runs on gasoline) and use it during the summer days.

What about the excercise? Well one suggestion would be to trash your couch and throw your tv out the window. Oh and go outside once in a while.

Re:You can't be serious.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right now i live exactly 6.7 miles away from where i work, [...] Even if i could keep pedaling non-stop at a nice pace of 10 miles an hour, it would still take me 40 minutes to get to work. Start counting the stoplights, plus the breaks to catch your breath, it will take you an hour and a half.

We're not talking about walking, fatty. Comfortable cruise speed, including stops at lights and other necessary slow downs, is at least 13 mph.

Cue the Jeff Foxworthy Jokes!

[Anonymous Coward]

You know you're a yuppie when your bike rack has a bike rack!

Efficiency?

[Vagary]

Does anybody have any data on relative efficiency of these? I don't like bicycling so I'm interested in skateboards, scooters, and rollerblades as alternatives, but I'm not going to pick one just because it's cool...

Where is this number coming from?

[cr0sh]

Do you want to spend upwards of $400 a month to part your "REAL" scooter?

$400? Where is this number coming from? I currently own a paid-for 1994 4-banger Ranger - fuel costs me about $120.00 a month (maybe a little more, but not much) and insurance is $60.00 a month. Maintenance is negligable - consisting mainly of oil changes every 3000 or so miles (every 3 months or so, which I do myself), new tires every couple of years (about $400), new shocks every few years, new brake pads every so often. None of it is near $400.00 a month.

How can a scooter with a much smaller engine and fuel tank cost $400.00 to run? I can't imagine it at all - can you explain your reasoning?

BTW - myself, I would love to have use a scooter or bike to get to work, however living in Phoenix, Arizona and the fact that my workplace hasn't got a shower (and is about 15 miles one way away from my home) kinda rules this out currently...

Re:Where is this number coming from?

[VermifugeRT]

dude, i said parking. parking the car in the city costs about $400 a month minimum.

Re:Where is this number coming from?

[cr0sh]

No, you said the following:

Real Scooters cost money to run, and are just as expensive to part as cars. Do you want to spend upwards of $400 a month to part your "REAL" scooter?

I was wondering what you meant by the word "part" - I thought maybe you were meaning to "fix" a car, not "park" it. Since you typed it the same way twice, and since the letter "t" is fairly far away from the letter "k" on a QWERTY keyboard, and are still removed from each other on a Dvorak layout (which you might be using/learning) - I had to assume you meant to use the word "part", not "park".

I am not a mind reader, nor will I ever be. In hindsight, with what you say now, speaking of "parking" in the context of expense in a city, then yes, I agree - parking a scooter versus parking a car in the city and all the expenses with that will be expensive.

In my defense, ambiguous spellings aside, I have never held a job in a city where I had to pay for my parking. Even here in Phoenix, unless you get unlucky, most places "validate" your parking stub so you don't have to pay for it. If you do pay for a spot here, it tends to be fairly lower in cost than say, New York, for instance. I can see, though, if you pay day-by-day here, it would definitely get into some real money at the end of a month. Once again, though, every place I have worked here has had free parking...

Re:Where is this number coming from?

[VermifugeRT]

in fact mothly parking (reserved) can be in well over $1000 a month in NYC

Yep.

[Servo]

Right now I live in NH and commute down to Boston. I'd have to drive for 20 minutes to get to the nearest commuter rail station, so I'd still need a car to get to work. I'm thinking about doing it anyway, since gas prices and lousy commute times are really getting to me.