Charges Against High School Hackers Dropped

Unfair! by biryokumaru · 2005-09-01 19:36 · Score: 5, Funny

When I got in trouble for hacking my high school network, we all got 50 hours of community sevice!

Lame.

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When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!

Re:Unfair! by mwvdlee · 2005-09-01 19:56 · Score: 5, Informative

This wasn't really hacking, it was more like typing in the password which was conveniently supplied on a label on the back of the laptops.

Some students did some minor hacking after the passwords were changed, but that still didn't amount to much more than executing "hacks" that were readily available on the internet, more akin to the work of a script kiddie than a hacker.

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Re:Unfair! by boisepunk · 2005-09-01 20:22 · Score: 5, Funny

Zero Cool would be proud.

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main(0)
Re:Unfair! by Sancho · 2005-09-01 21:53 · Score: 5, Informative

Some students did some minor hacking after the passwords were changed, but that still didn't amount to much more than executing "hacks" that were readily available on the internet, more akin to the work of a script kiddie than a hacker.

Does this somehow reduce the significance of the crime, or was it just an aside you were adding?

When I first read about this case, I thought the school was justified. When I found out that the passwords were taped to the machines, I changed my mind. When I found out that later, there was indeed "hacking", I changed my mind again. The students broke the law--the very same law that protects you from having to worry about unauthorized computer access.
Re:Unfair! by biryokumaru · 2005-09-01 21:57 · Score: 2, Funny

Maybe he went to high school in San Francisco.
*cough*

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When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
Re:Unfair! by digitalchinky · 2005-09-01 22:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

I 'worry' about unauthorized computer access constantly - the law is irrelevant.

The internet doesn't just stop with lines on a map - I get hundreds of dictionary attacks on a daily basis - I don't care where they come from, I don't much care that they even occur (though obviously it'd be nice if they didn't) - the ones that are successful are the problem.
Re:Unfair! by SoloFlyer2 · 2005-09-01 22:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

Parent and Grandparent were likely only punished by the institution they were attending not by the courts...

These kids will have their lives ruined by this if they ever want to do anything in IT requiring any sort of security, i have held jobs which required a police background check where any form of hacking (and several other things) no matter how small would have prevented me from being employed.

Thank god my school decided to punish me by requiring that I assisted the IT administrator for 1 hour every school day for 1 semester.

--
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" - Adam Savage
Re:Unfair! by nahdude812 · 2005-09-01 23:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

Although I know your response was a joke, I think that what happened here was basically executed perfectly.

The kids repeatedly violated guidelines that were put in place by people with the authority to put those guidelines there. Regardless of whether the measures used to enforce those guidelines were sufficient to deter activity simply by the strength of the restraints or not is unimportant. I can drive my car over the dotted yellow line in the road too if I want, and I can make my car go above the speed limit; that doesn't make it the state's fault when I careen through oncoming traffic at 120 mph.

Obviously the early traditional reprimands failed to make an impact on the students. What they needed was a good scare, and I think this is what they got. Settling on 15 hours of community service each kid doesn't sound like the prosecuting attorney(ies) ever really intended to send these kids to jail, it sounds to me like they wanted to make the kids fully aware that when you choose to violate guidelines, there are consequences (at least when you're caught, especially when you're flagrant in the actions). And I doubt, when faced with the prospect of jail time, that any of these kids failed to get that message.

Further, the message was probably received by more than just the kids involved, it was probably received by many other kids in the same district, and in surrounding districts.

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Re:Unfair! by mwvdlee · 2005-09-02 00:37 · Score: 3, Insightful

I do think it reduces the significance of the crime.

The hacking methods they used were not something the suppliers of the system could not have stopped. They left some easily exploitable holes in there whereas they shouldn't have. They also continued to use that very same password on most systems, even on "fixed" compromised laptops and even after pretty much everybody knew about it.

I do think they should be punished for their deeds (which they are), it is however no excuse for the gross negligence of the system admins, who basically did next to nothing to prevent, or indeed assist in, hacking. They should have expected children (yes, children; who cannot enter legal contract because they are not considered responsible enough) to play with the toys they are given. They gave these children a half-working toy and pretty much told them "do not try to play with the other half, even though it's a lot more fun" and ignorantly expected them to comply.

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Re:Unfair! by avdp · 2005-09-02 00:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yes, I know - it seems to be the popular thing to do to "make examples" out of people. "Send a message" blah blah. I am sorry, I don't think it's appropriate to do that with children. To (potentially) mess up a child's life just so that you can "send a message" should be a crime in itself.

You also seem to believe that this was the plan all along. Give them a good scare, then end up giving them 15 hours of community service. Yeah right. I am sure the worldwide media attention this case received had plenty to do with the appropriate punishment they did end up getting (as opposed to the ridiculous crime they were charged with). Call me cynical, but I don't believe it was the plan at all. It just ended up to be the only way out the authorities got themselves into without sounding like they completely caved in to the negative media attention.

And lastly, I have a problem with you comparing this case with dangerous driving. Speeding and moving into the incoming traffic has real physical, possibly deadly, dangers to you and to others on the road. Need I say more, really? changing the admin password on the computer they carry with them all day long so that they can browse the net without the filter, or the damage-less little prank they played with a teacher is totally benign, and the punishment needed to fit the "crime". But really, what should happen is getting these policies that made such an infractions a crime to begin with re-examined.
Re:Unfair! by Thud457 · 2005-09-02 01:26 · Score: 2, Funny

Our bad --
turns out the kids were just using Firefox.
Sorry about that whole destroying your life thing.
-- The Mgt.

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the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Re:Unfair! by j-turkey · 2005-09-02 01:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

Does this somehow reduce the significance of the crime, or was it just an aside you were adding?

Considering that they were charged with a felony for what essentially amounts to youthful mischief, I'd say that the significance of the crime is pretty minor relative to what they were charged with. No person or property was damaged in any way.

When I first read about this case, I thought the school was justified. When I found out that the passwords were taped to the machines, I changed my mind. When I found out that later, there was indeed "hacking", I changed my mind again. The students broke the law--the very same law that protects you from having to worry about unauthorized computer access.

Yeah -- those kids really do deserve punishment. I'd think that 3 weeks of detention, possibly even in-school suspension would be an appropriate action. I'm still baffled by how this all adds up to a felony charge. The students didn't break anything, they didn't access sensitive data, and they didn't disrupt anything. The fact is that this is a mostly harmless crime. I'd want more severe punishment for the kid who uses a sharpie to tag all over my neighborhood. If these kids were convicted of a felony, it would have ruined their lives. Convicted felons don't tend to get jobs, and often resort to crime as its the only way to make a living. Let's save the felony charges for those who are truly harmful and disruptive.

I hope that maybe some day if you or I ever slip up and are caught commiting a minor or victimless crime, neither of us have to experience heavy handed tactics of making an example of someone.

Oh, and with regards to your mention of the students breaking the "very same law that protects you from having to worry about unauthorized computer access." It does absolutely nothing of the sort. If I didn't worry about unauthorized computer access, I'd be out of a job. Unreasonably stiff penalties do not make the world a safe place.

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-Turkey
Re:Unfair! by Viper+Daimao · 2005-09-02 01:37 · Score: 3, Funny

I think he would be more crochety.
Zero Cool: "Back in my day, we didnt have physical access to the computer with the password taped on the back. No, we hacked the gibson from payphones with our 28.8 modems and pentium 1's, and we liked it!"

Either that, or he'd be too busy with Acid Burn. My god, have you seen her lately?

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"In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
Re:Unfair! by j-turkey · 2005-09-02 02:17 · Score: 3, Insightful

Just because they're kids doesn't mean that they're incapable of rational thinking. So many apologists on Slashdot (I have no idea if you're one of them, so apologies if you are not) are quick to step forward and say that kids are capable of making distinctions between right and wrong when it comes to discussing video game regulations, but when it comes to them having commited a cyber crime, they're just kids, give 'em a break?

Let's see...they can't get a credit card, get married, drink alcohol, drive a car (in many states), or live independantly without a lengthy legal emanicpation proceeding. So -- which is it? Are they capable of rational thinking or not? It's a bit of double talk that they have all the responsibilites of an adult, with none of the privileges. Even putting this aside, I still don't think that it makes any sense at all to over react to a minor crime, where there was no personal or property damage. These intentionally heavy-handed tactics of making an example of someone have been used for quite some time, and they don't work. They just destroy lives. In this case, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. IMO, what they did is akin to spitting on the sidewalk.

As far as your black-and-white law and order stuff goes, I have a feeling that you've ever been acquainted with our criminal justice system in any way. Go work in corrections for a while (just about any area), gain a minimally basic understanding of the other side of our criminal justice system. Perhaps with a tiny bit of perspective, you will have a difficult time spouting your black-and-white justice BS.

Finally, your earlier example of driving on the centerline at high speed is called reckleess endangerment, and is not a victimless crime. It is a felony. Your analogy makes an inappropriate comparison.

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-Turkey
Re:Unfair! by Sancho · 2005-09-02 02:27 · Score: 4, Insightful

For the sake of discussion, let's turn to cutusabreak.org, a site which proposes to support the students (though I think some of the passages in there actually harm them).

Now all along the computer department was monitoring for these infractions and dozens of students were reprimanded and punished for their curiosity. Detentions and in-school suspensions were handed to kids by their homeroom teachers, often with no face-to-face with the disciplinarians. This was hardly a deterrent, though, as the kids were able to take their laptops and play video games during their "punishment."

They were handing out the sorts of punishments you suggested. Perhaps not for the length of time you suggest, but it's not like they just saw a problem and said, "FELONY!"

Some laptops were temporarily confiscated for long enough to have them cleansed and returned to their original configuration with a new password. Yet the laptops were still not secure. On several occasions the laptops were returned with the old password still intact. And then the kids learned how to turn off and or limit the administration's ability to spy on what they were doing on their laptops.

Here we see that the students must have known that what they were doing was not authorized. The notebooks were confiscated long enough to undo the damage and change the admin password. From this point on, the students who had their laptop's password changed had to actively seek out a way to get admin access again. There is no way they didn't know, at this point, that what they were doing was "wrong".

Now, you suggest that these children, if convicted of felonies, would have their lives totally destroyed. In many states (including Penn.) this is not the case. A person may request that their juvenile record be expunged, under certain situations: ahref=http://www.jlc.org/home/mediacenter/factshee ts/FAQPAJJ.html%23exprel=url2html-4701http://www.j lc.org/home/mediacenter/factsheets/FAQPAJJ.html#ex p>

Now, many people are going to come back and say that the school screwed up, too. They did. I'll even provide a few examples up front.

1) They only targetted 13 kids. I have no idea whether these 13 had cracked the password after it was changed. For the sake of argument, I'm going to assume they did (if they did not, the school was definitely way out of line).

2) They failed to notify the parents, either of the offenses themselves or of the severity of the offenses.

3) They allowed the use of the laptops during detention, and had no contingency for removing a student from the program. I suspect that there is more to the story than "Some kids who had trouble resisting temptation tried to turn in their laptops and were forced by the administration to take them back." but for the sake of argument, we'll take that as accurate.

4) They monitored student activity in the first place. I do think that there is a reasonable level of monitoring that can occur when leasing or loaning out hardware, especially if notification of the monitoring is given up front (which it was, in this case, to the student but not the parent, apparently). But I still don't particularly like it, and there are distinct privacy implications considering these were minors.

5) They didn't secure the computers properly.

The only one of the above which reduces the culpability of the students is #3. If the student was actually trying to get rid of the temptation by getting rid of the program, they should have allowed that. Of course, we don't know if any of the 13 tried to give up the laptops, which would make the point moot.

And for the record, I agree with you on making an example of people. I think it's inappropriate and a mockery of the jusice^Wlegal system. But, rather than not prosecuting any of the kids, they should have prosecuted all of t
Re:Unfair! by Sancho · 2005-09-02 02:34 · Score: 2

Sorry, I managed to screw up that link:

http://www.jlc.org/home/mediacenter/factsheets/FAQ PAJJ.html#exp
Re:Unfair! by Sancho · 2005-09-02 02:54 · Score: 2, Informative

Accessing parts of the computer to which you are not authorized falls under computer trespass laws, plain and simple.

(a) Offense defined.--A person commits the offense of unlawful use of a computer if he:

(1) accesses or exceeds authorization to access, alters, damages or destroys any computer, computer system, computer network, computer software, computer program, computer database, World Wide Web site or telecommunication device or any part thereof with the intent to interrupt the normal functioning of a person or to devise or execute any scheme or artifice to defraud or deceive or control property or services by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations or promises;

The key word, of course, being "exceeds authorization"

3 is interesting, too:

(3) intentionally or knowingly and without authorization gives or publishes a password, identifying code, personal identification number or other confidential information about a computer, computer system, computer network or data base.

So any student who gave out the password would also have broken the law, whether it was before or after the passwords were changed.

So yes, they DID commit a crime. The school had no particular burden to make the computers ultra-secure. Whether the school was wrong for getting the law involved is a matter for debate.

You should be aware, however, that the students WERE given ISS and detention. The charges were pressed after the school had already tried to curb the problem internally.

Let's all register at random hick sites by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-01 19:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

Jeez, let's all register at "eSchool News". Sigh. Talk about minimum effort editing.

Good news? by syousef · 2005-09-01 19:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

They had a moronic school willing to proceed with this stupidity, and they're still at this school I presume? Going to a school where those in power have a severe mental handicap doesn't sound like good news to me. Having the possibility of a felony raised and it taking THIS LONG to and public uproar to dismiss this stupidity doesn't seem like good news to me.

Good news would be the principal and any police involved in this over-reaction getting an official reprimand.

--
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer

Re:Good news? by Lumpy · 2005-09-01 20:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

I hate to break this to you but after school, College has a severe mential handicap, then work, the managers have severe mential handicaps.

you never escape it. I strongly suggest becoming extremely adept at social engineering, it will get you out of many situations. Anyone who is really good with any technology today must be a really good social engineer to disguise the fact or to calm those around you.

and when you potentially run afoul of the law it works great. and officer on his way walking to you to give you crap or possibly arrest you will not do so if the first words out of your mouth are " Officer! I am so glad you are here! can you help me?" if you make the officer think that he is your savoir then he will ignore lots of things to help stroke his ego. Tresspassing? you will be politely told "you know this is a restricted area?" instead of being dragged off screaming by barney fife wanna-be.

Same goes for school admins, college admins and managers and upper managers at work. none of them will EVER understand technology and you are extremely scary because you know technology.

Is this fair? no. but it's life. Ask any minority that is persecuted and they will tell you the same thing. you are frightening to them, they see you as dangerous, and they want to keep you under control.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Re:Good news? by EternityInterface · 2005-09-01 21:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

- The Profound -
Men of profound thought
appear to themselves in intercourse with others
like comedians
for in order to be understood
they must always simulate superficiality

[Nietzchse]

--
the sun is god

At least the tags will be gone... by Palal · 2005-09-01 19:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

I mean grafitti... But the real question is: did this bring out the real curiosity in them or will this forever stop them from exploring computers further?

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-Palal

No Registration Required by Motherfucking+Shit · 2005-09-01 19:44 · Score: 5, Informative

The case against the "Kutztown 13"--a group of Pennsylvania high school students charged with felonies for tinkering with their school-issued laptop computers--seems to be ending mostly with a whimper.

In meetings with students over the last several days, the Berks County, Pa., juvenile probation office has quietly offered the students a deal in which all charges would be dropped in exchange for 15 hours of community service, a letter of apology, a class on personal responsibility, and a few months of probation.

"The probation department realizes this is small potatoes," said William Bispels, an attorney representing nearly half the accused students.

The 13 initially were charged with computer trespass and computer theft, both felonies, and could have faced a wide range of sanctions, including juvenile detention.

The Kutztown Area School District said it reported the students to police only after detentions, suspensions, and other punishments failed to deter them from breaking school rules governing computer usage. (See "Felony charges for computer-abusing kids.")

But the students, their families, and outraged supporters around the nation said that authorities overreacted, punishing the kids not for any horrible behavior but because they outsmarted the district's technology workers.

The trouble began last fall after the school district issued some 600 Apple iBook laptops to every student at the high school, about 50 miles northwest of Philadelphia.

Students easily breached security and began downloading forbidden internet programs, such as the popular iChat instant-messaging tool. Some students also turned off a remote monitoring function that let administrators see what students were viewing on their screens--or used the monitoring function to view administrators' own computer screens.

School district officials and prosecutors did not return phone messages left Aug. 25 and had not been heard from by press time.

In legal terms, the students have been offered an "informal adjustment"--the least severe form of punishment.

Bispels said a few students are thinking about refusing the deal because they don't feel they have broken any laws. "A lot of these parents would like to fight this on principle, but it's hard to put the kids at risk on principle," he said.

Mike Boland, who represents one student, said his client likely will accept the offer. "It doesn't require my client to acknowledge he is guilty of anything," he said.

"It's about as mild as you can go," agreed James Shrawder, whose 15-year-old nephew was among those offered the deal. "It's more of a face-saving measure."

One student who has had prior dealings with the juvenile probation office was not offered a deal. That case is expected to proceed.

Links:

Students' web site
http://www.cutusabreak.org

Kutztown Area School District's response
http://www.kasd.org/districtinfo/kasdPressrelease. htm

--
"BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.

Re:No Registration Required by klept · 2005-09-01 22:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

It's not "as mild as you can go". They still got 15 hours community service. I can understand the defense attorney cutting a deal. You never know how a trial is going to turn out. But then it sounds like somebody with the authorities had some brains. If this case had been brought before a legitimate court, with a decent, intelligent, and fair judge, there was most likely a high probability it would have been thrown out. For example, did these kids even commit a crime? Did they have intent? Or for that matter did they even have knowledge of the law allegedly broken? And before some wiseasss, like the jerk that commented to me about free speech, tells me ignorance of the law is no excuse, let me reply. Yes, ignorance of the law is no excuse, but lack of knowledge is. There's plenty legal precedent on this. And then there's that poor smuck that they are "expected to proceed". Sounds like he's going to be the fall guy.
Re:No Registration Required by Stephan+Schulz · 2005-09-01 22:13 · Score: 2, Funny

The trouble began last fall after the school district issued some 600 Apple iBook laptops to every student at the high school, about 50 miles northwest of Philadelphia.
Well, if they dump 600 iBooks on every student, no wonder they get in trouble. You need a minor warehouse just to store them...

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Stephan
Re:No Registration Required by anthony_dipierro · 2005-09-01 22:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

Please note that using that login constitutes felony computer trespass.

Not merely that it's small potatoes. . . by kfg · 2005-09-01 19:44 · Score: 5, Insightful

but that they really don't stand much of a chance of conviction by jury.

Not to mention how silly they look.

KFG

Re:They are not bright kids. by KiloByte · 2005-09-01 19:53 · Score: 3, Funny

They are not sleazy enough.

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I hope they don't take the deal by Rogerborg · 2005-09-01 19:57 · Score: 4, Interesting

I hope that at least one of them fights it out, and makes the state (in all senses) that started this madness either see it out, or drop the charges altogether.

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Re:I hope they don't take the deal by krunk4ever · 2005-09-01 21:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

if you don't view it as a deal, it doesn't seem that harsh. think of it as disciplinary action. i mean if i break one of the school rules (nothing to do with the legal system), i'll be punished either by detention, writing standards, community service, or some other sort of disciplinary action within the school system; and community services is definitely a valid disciplinary action they can choose to use.

what these kids committed was NOT a felony, but it did BREAK school rules/policies. It may be true that the IT dept was stupid, but if the school grading system was left wide open, you are still NOT ALLOWED to go into it to change your grades and IF YOU DO GET CAUGHT, you should be liable for your actions.

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HD Trailers
Re:I hope they don't take the deal by ABaumann · 2005-09-02 03:03 · Score: 2, Informative

Well, you'll get your wish...

"One student who has had prior dealings with the juvenile probation office was not offered a deal. That case is expected to proceed."

That's incredibly stupid. "People A-L get off light, but M did something completely unrelated before, so we have to make sure he learns his lesson." I don't know, I guess my assumption is that it's not computer related, but in my mind if you kill someone, serve your time and then get arrested for robbery, your punishment shouldn't take into account that you killed someone in the past.
Re:I hope they don't take the deal by lscotte · 2005-09-02 03:07 · Score: 2

So what you are saying is if you came across an unlocked car with the keys in the ignition, it's ok for you to take it?

What happened to ethical behavior!?

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This post is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.

I was asked to hack by Boomshanka · 2005-09-01 20:00 · Score: 5, Interesting

When I was in my senior year in high school back in 86 and Apple IIe's were the flavour of the day (wonder if linux will run on it?) the math department had a password protected program for tracking and scoring all the students of the school for that year and guess what.. they forgot the password. I was asked what could I do so I ran the program through a hex dump and looked for unusual words appearing in the hex and found a word "ferret" tried it and got in. So its not all bad to be a computer enthusiast (nerd) at high school. I got no community service for that. I had the chance to up my grades but I of course I didnt.

Re:I was asked to hack by krymsin01 · 2005-09-01 20:06 · Score: 2, Informative

Yeah, but now if they asked you to do that you'd be commiting a felony, and your teacher would be guilty of soliciting criminal activity. YAY circumvention!

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stuff
Re:I was asked to hack by Lonewolf666 · 2005-09-01 21:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

It seems that things have changed towards far greater paranoia. Today, it might be wise to get that invitation to hacking in writing. So you can prove that you did it with permission of the computer's owner.

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C - the footgun of programming languages

HA by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-01 20:00 · Score: 3, Funny

Changing an admin password on an iBook considered hacking. I have heard it all now. I got a similar letter sent to me from a University I once attended but my one stated that I broke 14 out of the 16 rules they had in the computer policy. The other two were too lame to break.

They started to get worried when I told them how easy it was to crash the University ATM machines. Of cource I got caught as I was cocky like most young kids. They set up a stink ( rather funny thinking about it now). They told me that I was the biggest ever threat to the University ever ( I felt proud ). Ah well I went away and got my computers degree elsewhere.

But Where Is The Community Service ? by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-01 20:03 · Score: 2, Funny

15 hours in New Orleans right now would be tough going - they might want to re-do the plea bargain back to a felony !

Small potatoes == felony? by monstermonster · 2005-09-01 20:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

You know, what I don't get is this - there is a reason that juvenile offenders are supposed to be treated as juveniles by the law. Their brains aren't done developing. They sometimes do juvenile things because they're, well, juvenile. It's not like they murdered someone. And if the school IT guys are idiots, as they often are (I remember explaining a floppy disk to my totally incompetent 8th grade computers teacher back in the dark ages), I don't see that we should be trying to charge kids with felonies. Especially when it's not as if they hacked into some national defense computer. The only lesson it teaches anyone is that we have overzealous prosecutors.

Give a kid something he's not supposed to get into, and he'll try to get into it. Period. Be stupid about it, and he will get into it.

Re:Small potatoes == felony? by MosesJones · 2005-09-01 22:14 · Score: 3, Interesting

It's not like they murdered someone

And this is the problem with the way the US legal system is going. Murder by a juvenille becomes a death penalty offence, and hey look another felony should have them tried as an adult and another.... etc etc etc until we have 12 year olds being tried for fraud because they lied to their parents about tidying their room to get their pocket money.

Its a more fundamental question than small potatoes, its about whether its right to EVER try juvenilles as adults.

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An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi

Corporate IT vs Employees by Raindeer · 2005-09-01 20:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

What these kids did sounds like the battle happening between many corporate IT-departments and employees.

Corporate IT departments erect all kinds of barriers for users to use certain applications and generally don't explain why these barriers are there. The most common answer I have gotten was: "Security". ICT-security is in my jobtitle and I know these guys were bullshitting me. Other things you hear are maintence, complexity or my favourite one: "It is our policy" and "The department heads agreed on this".

This is a battle that has gone on ever since we started with computers in the workplace. Invariably the result was that people worked around the ivory tower that controlled IT and got what they wanted some way or another (PC's got bought on office supplies budgets in the early eighties, they were forbidden by the high priests of mainframes) Invariably after prolonged fights the users win.

I currently see the following problems around me, where corporate IT erects barries, that people go around. In most cases corporate IT should enable it in such a way it is safe, or explain very well why it is not allowed at the moment, or at all:
- Banning of Instant Messaging
- Filtering of websites beyond porn
- Banning any Palm-like device, except the corporate one.
- disabling USB ports.
- disabling Wifi
- banning alternative browsers and all kinds of utilities.
- limiting the size of mailboxes
- disallowing or crippling desktop search
- disallowing or crippling streaming media
- Creating lengthy processes for getting new software on your desktop

--
Use Adsense for Charity

Re:Corporate IT vs Employees by aaronl · 2005-09-01 23:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

There *are* perfectly logical reasons for why those policies. It is not the job of IT to explain those reasons; it is the job of IT to do the IT-related work. If you want to know why a policy is what it is, you can try to ask, or you can try to find out. The IT people are probably too busy to sit there and try to explain all of this to a layman that refuses to even attempt to learn anything on their own.

Really, it doesn't matter what the users want. An IT manager should *care* what they want, and form policy around it. However, if you do what the users want, you have an infrastructure that doesn't work, has no security, and can never be maintained. That means you have to tell users to "stuff it", to a point.

You follow the policies of your workplace because those are the conditions of working there. If you disagree, you say something. If it is perceived as a problem (ie: enough people complained), and a change is deemed required, then policy will get changed.

Backing down gracefully..... by xiaomonkey · 2005-09-01 20:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

So, this appears to be the school's way of backing down gracefully. That is, they get to drop the charges without having to admit that it was wrong to press the charges in the first place.

Overall, not a bad out come. But, it does leave it as an open question whether or not the school district will every try something like this again.

Lucky fucking kids by rk87 · 2005-09-01 20:23 · Score: 5, Interesting

You know, this is such absolute bullshit.

Several years ago (I think '99) I was in an optional school activity that fixed computers and made sure the school network worked etc.. There was one particular trouble computer where apparently students snuck on and installed a whole bunch of nasty stuff. One of the other guys that did this with me installed Back Orifice on it to monitor it (remember, those were the days when it was popular). One day he asked me to go on the linux box and check on that computer (I watched him do it plenty of times, so i knew how). At this point, the head of the computer group came around and saw bo2k. Oooh boy was he pissed. Since this was the time of people using bo2k as a virus, he instantly thought it was.

I told him that I was just checking it for the other guy but when he asked him he knew nothing about it and wondered why there was a virus on the linux box. Fuck.

I got kicked off the computer group, got a total of abut 25 hours of detention cleaning desks, and my parents got to pay the equivalent of about $200 in "damages". And no, I did NOT make slashdot with this.

--
I'M NOT ANGRY!

Re:Lucky fucking kids by rk87 · 2005-09-02 00:50 · Score: 2, Interesting

If you had actually read my comment, you would know that I was not the one that installed BO2K, but the other guy that claimed he didn't. These days, I use TightVNC exclusively.

And, what I didn't mention, is that they told me they would press charged if I didn't clean the desks and my parents didn't pay the fines. If they were actually going to do it, i don't know, but what was I supposed to know? It's fucked either way _especially_ since I didn't install it.

--
I'M NOT ANGRY!

My comments, and link to article by Antony-Kyre · 2005-09-01 20:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

The below really bothers me. Someone may think that accepting that kind of offer admits no guilt, but in reality, it admits you're guilty. The logic is that if you are truly innocent, you should have no problem in court. But then again, the American judicial system is so messed up, especially towards juveniles/minors, it may be next to impossible to get a fair trial/proceeding.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b4_5kutztown-3 aug26,0,1647962,print.story?coll=all-newslocal-hed

Mike Boland, who represents one student, said his client probably will accept the offer. ''It doesn't require my client to acknowledge he is guilty of anything,'' he said.

International view. by Lellor · 2005-09-01 20:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

Here in Kelowna, British Columbia, a co-worker of mine found out about this via an email sent by his relatives in the US who knew about the case, and we discussed it for quite a while at work.

The general consensus is that the authorities in the US have become too strict, especially with "intellectual property", "the war on drugs", and "computer crimes".

They are basically making themselves a laughing stock internationally - the Canadian public doesn't seem impressed by what the current US adminsitration is doing, or how they are handling these issues.

Things like this would not happen in any other industrial, civilized G7 democracy, like Canada for example.

It's quite shocking that the authorities are punishing students for using passwords - that they were given!

--
Liberal Ontarians and French Quebecers are draining Western Canada's wealth. Stop them now! Support Western separatism.

Hmmm.... by Legendof_Pedro · 2005-09-01 20:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

I'm glad they're dropping the charges, but seriously, shouldn't this be a civil matter, not a felony?

Re:Hmmm.... by dauthur · 2005-09-01 20:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

It should be "sysadmin gets fired for leaving the passwords taped to the back of the fucking laptops", not a civil matter nor felony.

LInk to the student's site by Evets · 2005-09-01 21:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

For those that haven't followed the story, here is the link to a site representing the student's side of the story: http://www.cutusabreak.org/

sad... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-01 21:18 · Score: 3, Interesting

i am currently attending junior high.

the sad thing is the school management and even some it departments are very naive about their computer security. i recently ALMOST got suspended from school from using batch files to start word, internet explorer, or excel! (they believe batch files constitute as a hacking tool/device that can compromise network security).

ideally, IT staff should be trained properlly and understand that security is only as good as the person enforcing it. if school network security is bad, then perhaps they should hire better people. this is because i recently got the admin password of the local computer taking about 15 minutes (1) boot usb key 2) copy sam file from hdd to usb 3) use saminside to generate pwdump file of sam hashes 4) pass the pwdump file to l0phtcrack which passes the hash through a rainbow table - the password was 6chars long with 1 number!?) - the IT staff were so naive to have the network and local computer pass the same, and allowing booting to usb key.

in the ideal world, school network security would be standardized and out-sourced to higher-skilled people.

these kids should be commended for proving how in-effective school network security is.

Re:sad... by MichaelSmith · 2005-09-01 22:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

i recently got the admin password of the local computer taking about 15 minutes
A word of advice from somebody a lot older: save this kind of stuff for your own systems. If you want to get involved with sysadmin stuff then you should start by gaining the trust of the people who run your school systems.

I can see that you are talented, but your admin people are just going to come down on you for it.

Oh, and don't brag about your accomplishments, even as AC. Word gets around. Remember the really smart people keep this kind of information to themselves.

--
http://michaelsmith.id.au

Outrageous by hooeezit · 2005-09-01 21:19 · Score: 5, Interesting

The authorities in question had the gall to offer a compromise that included:

15 hours of community service, a letter of apology, a class on personal responsibility, and a few months of probation.

A letter of apology? That I'm sighted, not dumb, and would like to use convenient technology to stay in touch with my friends?

And what is this from one of the defendant attorneys:

Mike Boland, who represents one student, said his client likely will accept the offer. "It doesn't require my client to acknowledge he is guilty of anything," he said.

I'd say a letter of apology counts as acknowledging guilt, at least in my books!
If you keep track of Paul Graham's essays (try http://store.yahoo.com/paulgraham/nerds.html), you will probably recognize this as a glowing example of the holding pen analogy he uses vis-a-vis present day school system. I'm apalled that the most important thing that these bright kids are impressioned with is 'Obey the Thought Police'!

So...they did not have the right to read? by RAMMS+EIN · 2005-09-01 21:58 · Score: 4, Interesting

Reading the students' story, it sounds almost like The Right to Read.

Student Story:

At a school board meeting ~ a year ago, opponents of the high school's Computer Initiative predicted that the administration would not be able to control the student's access to inappropriate internet sites...

It would allow the computer department to monitor student activity and it limited access to the network and internet. This configuration was protected by an administrative password and, as our administration discovered, the laptop could be easily reconfigured by curious students when the password was not secured...

At least one student figured it out and passed it along until ~ 80 - 100 of the students had access to it...

the Kutztown Police Department notified the parents of 13 high school students that their children were being charged with the crime of Computer Trespass. This offense is graded by the state as a felony of the 3rd degree.

Right to Read:

This put Dan in a dilemma. He had to help her--but if he lent her his computer, she might read his books. Aside from the fact that you could go to prison for many years for letting someone else read your books...

In his software class, Dan had learned that each book had a copyright monitor that reported when and where it was read, and by whom, to Central Licensing...

There were ways, of course, to get around the SPA and Central Licensing. They were themselves illegal. Dan had had a classmate in software, Frank Martucci, who had obtained an illicit debugging tool, and used it to skip over the copyright monitor code when reading books.

--
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.

DAMMIT MODS by RAMMS+EIN · 2005-09-01 22:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

So here this guy goes pointing out how ridiculous the situation is, and how it is a nice example of US authorities having become too strict. That's not exactly rocket science, it's been said many times before that USAmericans are too sue-happy and that authorities don't have the wits to understand technology - often leading to ridiculous situations (software patents, anyone?).

And just because he said he's Canadian it's modded flamebait! I hate to break it to you, but this is a real problem is the USA, and it isn't a problem in most of the rest of the western world. So instead of silencing those who criticize you, perhaps you should let them speak, so that the situation may be improved?

If this were only one incident, I wouldn't bother to post this, but I'm fed up with americans sticking their heads in the sand and telling those trying to educate them to piss off.

Nice example: the Europeans who wrote letters before the last elections, arguing why people shouldn't vote for Bush. Guess what happened? The reaction was: piss off I'm not gonna let you tell me what to vote. Not an unnatural reaction, really, but it's very sad considering how ignorant many Americans are about the rest of the world. So here the rest of the world comes and tries to educate them, and their arguments aren't even considered. Now that's ignorant and smug about it!

--
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.

Re:DAMMIT MODS by RAMMS+EIN · 2005-09-01 23:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

`` I hate to break it to you, but this is a real problem is the USA, and it isn't a problem in most of the rest of the western world.

Then you haven't been paying attention. As an Aussie, I'll give you at least one example:''

Yes, that's Australia. Note that I said "most of the rest of the western world". I was specifically thinking about Australia when I wrote that.

``That said, the OP *is* flamebait, and your post isn't any better.''

I agree that my post isn't any better than the original, but I don't agree that the original was flamebait. It was simply stating that some people thought there is a problem with American authorities. I don't see any flamebait in that.

Now, if you considered _my_ post a flamebait, that would make sense. It uses slanted language and actually insults the intelligence of an entire nation. Strangely, it has been modded Insightful. Maybe the point I was making is a valid one?

--
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.

Sounds familiar... by bogd · 2005-09-01 22:39 · Score: 2, Insightful

Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.

Some things never change...

Mods? Hello? by Zeebs · 2005-09-01 22:49 · Score: 3, Interesting

I can speak to the truth of this. When I was in my 4th year of highschool the IT department decided they wanted to lock down all the computers in the school, passwords this that and the other thing. They did this even in the lab that was used exclusivly for the programming courses, needless to say, pain in the arse. A small group of the students got a little annoyed about having to get up and get the teacher to unlock the computer at the start of every class, and anytime we managed to crash one among other things. So we conspired, about 3 of us, to obtain the passwords we needed to work freely, simply quickly mocking up a dummy screen and getting the teacher to unlock the computer. Now this is far worse then what these students did, we actually stole the password, it wasn't written down anywhere we could get to. You know what happened?

The teacher thought it was great, we all had a good laugh, he even wanted to have a look at the source for our little tool. Now, we did admit to the teacher we did this however, because there wasn't an environment of fear about going to jail for basicly a simple prank.

Had that been the case for these students the state might actually have had a case and gone to trial with it.

--

Happy Noodle Boy says "F###ing doughnut! Mock me? You fried cyclops!!"

Ah, those high school days... uggh *choke* by ACORN_USER · 2005-09-01 22:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

High School and, as everyone else has pointed out, EVERYTHING which follows is just plain brain damaged:

Through school and high school, I got harassed, teased and when others were baking their own rear-ends, I was also depended on for my 'skill with computers.'
You earned respect from teachers. You earned more of a stigma from students. Finally, you were distrusted by the same stupid teachers if something went wrong. You'd show someone one of your programs and they'd be like, 'how do you do something like that?' Not that they'd listen to your answer. I really hated that question!
Through University, I was distrusted ( validly ) when spending nights in our labs. I was condemned for finding obvious security holes. Still, this was the most sane ( other than the dot-coms I worked in ), situation I've seen.
I once quit a stupid tell-sales holiday job, calling my employer a 'computer-illiterate moron,' after being suspected of 'changing the bloody date to 1980 on a stupid PC.' Why? Because I was 'good with computers.'
Through REAL work.. The dot-com years were tolerable. Then I went for real money and well it goes on and on. Now that everyone is ready to proclaim his/herself a computer expert, you have to put up with more distrust, shit and even stupider 'imposed' solutions. Ignorant backlash to good suggestions. And then some.

My point was.. well I'm pissed that these kids were prosecuted in the first place. If anything the kids should be encouraged and rewarded, while the school learns a thing or two about sensible security. The world may be brain damaged, however at least we can look down on everyone else.

Nerds should have their own country. Kind of like Isreal. We can encourage other nerds to enter and have a 0 tolerance policy to all other imigrants - unless they're cute and attracted to nerds.

Re:Ah, those high school days... uggh *choke* by ACORN_USER · 2005-09-01 23:55 · Score: 2, Informative

I know that, you know that, but they didn't believe it. So I told her where to stick it.

Re:Where is the line ? by a_greer2005 · 2005-09-01 23:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sysadmins do not listen to students, in my experiance. They assume that students are stupid and know nothing.
example:
My freshman year we were using Windows 95 boxen in typing class. I came in one day and saw that Napster and AOL havd been installed and were running - I didnot hae the permission to kill the app or remove the program - because I would not hack the pathetic security, so I told the teacher and filled her in on what it was. 10 min later the IT person came in and deleted the SHORTCUTS freom the desktop and said "OK, the apps are deleted, thanks for reporting it" I said "but you deleted the shortcut, not the app" he said "I didnt pay my way through college and get my MCSA to be told that I am wrong by a mouthy teen"
I proceeded, in front of the teacher to say to the IT guy "get outa my seat, I just had the teacher call you because it was the right thing to do, it is just a shame that the corp. hires dumbasses like you in stead of real pros."

Example 2:
we moved to Win 2k pro, and found that if ou went into the find->people utility, you could see the students name, acount name and PASSWORD in PLAIN TEXT...the IT guys didnt listen untill my buddy demoed it to the entire electronics class on a 6 foot screen while the IT guy was in the room, watching.

I have MANY MANY more stories like that.if you cant report an isue and have it resolved,,,something is wrong

Re:Where is the line ? by LordLucless · 2005-09-02 00:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'm really struggling to find a parallel between your scenarios and what happened to these kids. I'm really struggling.

How about this scenario:
You give a friend permission to sleep on your couch. However, they are only allowed to do it between the hours of 9 and 5 and they are only allowed to sleep on the couch. You come home at 6 o'clock and find them sitting on the couch, in breach of all your rules. So you charge them with trespass.

These children were given laptops by an education institution that their parents were funding. The school would not let them get an education without these laptops. These laptops reported everything the students did back to the school administration, and they were forced to use them. They disabled the surveillance software.

After that, they did a number of different things. But that's not hugely important, because that's not what they're being charged for. They are being charged for stopping a computer, paid for by their parents, that they were forced to use in order to get an education that was theirs by rights, spying on them.

How exactly is that equivelant to stealing a wallet, breaking and entering or rape?

--
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face

Don't take the deal by macdaddy · 2005-09-02 00:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

I've been in nearly this exact same boat (minus the legal charges). I was accused of causing around $14k worth of damages (labor for the outsourced IT company to come down and fix the problem) way back when I was a freshman in HS. It was not possible that neither I nor the other person they accused could have done the dead though because 1) I was home sick on the Saturday that the logs show the first of the damage and I was at the doctor 1+ hours away on Monday when the second round of damage occured, and 2) the other kid was on the basketball court playing in a JV tournament on that Saturday (that I missed because I was sick), and was at home having supper with his family when the second round of damage occured. When pressed with this information the principal even admitted that neither of us could have caused the damage. He needed a scapegoat though. The other kid's parents had the right approach. They told the principal in no uncertain terms to go to hell and that they were through with the matter. My mother was a district teacher though so that wouldn't fly. The principal made me do 120 hours of community service. It was easy to account for though since I filmed all the football games (which he counted) and had worked for the school pro bono for years.

However after all of that came to an end, I was still treated by the school staff as some sort of hacker. Many openly expressed their distrust of me around their computers. Whenever ANYTHING ever went wrong with the computer system I was the first person they blamed. Now I was also the one they always turned to for a fix to their problem. Still I had to put up with all that grief just because my parents elected to take the deal.

Moral of the story, if you're innocent then don't agree to any deal where blame can still be associated with you. If you're innocent then make damned certani everyone knows it.

And so... by flajann · 2005-09-02 01:23 · Score: 2, Funny

I am sick of the term "hacker" being used as a perjorative. But I've beat that dead horse before...

What peeves me about this story, and a similar one, is that in both cases there was a lamatable lack of security-mindness among the school staff. Leaving passwords taped to the back of computers is the same as not using passwords at all. I consider this the failure of the staff members to exercise simple-minded commonsense security procedures.

In the other case that I have in mind, the teacher left her desk without password protecting her computer, which would've taken her 2 keystrokes to do. A student went to her desk and altered grades. Everybody nailed the student, but *no* attention was given to the very plan fact that the teacher left everything wide open.

And another criticism. Most school staff are clueless about computers anyway; the students can very easily run rings around them. If a technology is going to be used, then that technology should be fully understood by the adminstrators and staff. After all, a teacher *is supposed* to be smarter than the students he or she is teaching, right?

I recalled being so bored in school all those many years ago because I was light-years ahead of the techers in the areas of math and science -- even in their so-called "advanced placement" courses. It was all largely a joke as I recall.

--
Ruby Neural Evolution of Augmenting Topologies

My letter of apology. by wubboy · 2005-09-02 01:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm sorry. I'm very sorry that your network security is a disgrace.
I'm sorry that your network admin staff is completely braindead.
I'm sorry that the ADMIN passwords were taped to the back of the laptops by what must have been the single most stupid person on the planet.
I'm sorry that likely the only thing anyone learned out of this is that 13 kids "broke in to the schools computers".
I'm sorry that noone will ever think to FIRE the dumbass who taped the passwords to the back of the computers.

I'm sorry that I had to write this.

--
Sit... Speak.... Shake.... Good Dog!

Pleas and felonies by hotspotbloc · 2005-09-02 01:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

The fact is in the US felony charges are used the vast majority of the time as a club to coerce a plea agreement to a lesser felony or misdemeanor charge rather than a State's Attorney's honest desire to prosecute a real felonious crime.

Felonies are meant to be serious crimes like "aggravated assault, arson, burglary, murder, and rape" and not minor infractions like what the "Kutztown 13" possibly did. Almost 95% of felony charges result in a guilty conviction via a plea agreement. It's rather disgusting.

IMO the only reason the "Kutztown 13" got off without a conviction is because of the multitude of complaints generated by the Internet and not out of any "common sense" of any prosecutor. The criminal justice in the US is like a giant meat grinder where the innocent and guilty get ground up together and spit out the other end. "Justice" is rarely a factor.

--
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST

Re:Where is the line ? by cow-orker · 2005-09-02 02:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

4. A kid gets a locked device handed to him with the key dangling on a chain.
a) Obviously an invitation to open the device and use it.
b) Obviously an oversight, the kid should immediately point this out to his supervisor and hand him the key. Kids aren't supposed to possess keys anyway.

Are you fucking out of your mind comparing this to the rape of a helpless victim? (And you too, mods! You should stop smoking this bad stuff.)

Major difference by Sycraft-fu · 2005-09-02 05:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

You were asked by the legal owner to do it. These kids were told, repeatedly, to stop doing this and were punished by the school for it.

If I lock my keys in my car and call a locksmith to get them he is perfectly allowed to pick my lock since I (the legal owner) requested it. Indeed, he'll even charge me to do it. If you decide to pick my lock randomly for fun, it's a crime and you'll be charged if caught.

That's the things. Just like with physical property, you aren't allowed to access computers without permission. Also permission of one kind doesn't constitute full permission. Slashdot runs a publicly accessable webserver, since it is setup with the intent to reach the public, it's the same as giving you permission to access it. However that doesn't mean you have permission to try to get root on the box and do whatever you want. Likewise that the school let these kids use the laptops was not permission to do whatever they want.

I can say as a lab admin for a university, if we had to deal with a similar situation, there would be criminal charges as well. If you break in to a computer, we'll yank your account and send you to talk to the dean. If you do it again, we are going to call the cops since you obviously didn't learn your lesson the first time.

True, our labs are much more secure than these laptops, but nothing any person with computer support experience couldn't easily get by. If you have physical access to the computer, it's not hard to just wipe and reinstall the damn thing. However just because you can do it, doesn't make it legal or right to do it. I mean I can break in your house. Unless you are someone with one in a million good security, it would be easy. However that doesn't mean it's legal for me to do so.

What you did, was put your skills to good use to help someone at their request. What these kinds did was put their skills to bad use for personal gain.

Re:Major difference by jc42 · 2005-09-04 05:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

I can say as a lab admin for a university, if we had to deal with a similar situation, there would be criminal charges as well.

And I can say, as a parent with kids who have learned about computers, that I'd advise any child to refuse the loan of a computer from any school. To any other parent of school-age children, I'd say: Teach your children to turn down offers of the use of school computers.

This case is an excellent example why. Yes, you want your children to learn to use computers. The only way to do this is to experiment with the computers.

But we seem to have an "educational" culture now that, rather than encouraging the kids to do the usual thing of playing with the gadgets, instead offers the kids enticing toys and then punishes them for attempting to study and learn from them.

So if you want your kids to learn about computers, buy them their own computer. Tell them that they can experiment and learn on their computer all they like, but beware of any school-owned computer. Attempting to learn anything on a school computer without explicit "authorization" may be dangerous to your safety and your school (and police) record. Don't trust your teachers on this; the school admins can overrule them and call the police on you if you try to learn something that they haven't authorized.

Either that, or send your kids to a school that's seriously interested in educating their students. Asking the admins about their take on this story could be a useful interview approach. If they support the school's actions against the students, don't let your kids anywhere near them.

Those of you without kids, or who don't want your kids learning about how computers work, please ignore this advice.

--
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.

Common sense by Ogive17 · 2005-09-02 06:40 · Score: 2, Insightful

As I just finished reading through the topics that had been modded up, I wonder why everyone BUT the kids are being blamed for what happened.

I am sure when the school district gave those kids the laptops, there was an agreement signed and rules explained to the students. So it wasn't a smart idea to put the passwords physically on the computer, but how do you explain the minority who took it beyond that? The kids knew the rules, and they knowingly broke them. Sure a felony was too far, but 15 hours of community service seems too light. But now I'm sure the regulations will be much tighter due to these 13 kids, who may have ruined it for the other 483.

Then there's the segment of /. that blame the schools and anyone government related for being too strict. When my parents were in school, the teachers physically beat them in front of their classmates for breaking a rule! If anything, kids now have much more leniency because of the very liberal advocacy groups who raise a stink whenever someone is punished.

Bottom line, the kids broke the rules multiple times. The school had to do something that would get the kids to stop, which happened. 10 years ago I got a Saturday School because I was working on my Geocities webpage in the school lab. It may seem a bit harsh for a 1st offense, but I never did that again!

--
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."

The whole program sounds stupid by soft_guy · 2005-09-02 06:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

What is the point of requiring every kid in the school to carry a laptop around with them? What benefit is there to that? According to the article, the teachers did not like the program because the laptops were a distraction in class.

I'm certainly not against computers, and I think they do have a place in education (writing reports, etc), but not in the classroom.

Kids need to spend school time learning academic subjects, not IMing each other and downloading music.

--
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score

Not really a crime by bezuwork's+friend · 2005-09-02 12:48 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'd just like to add that I don't think this is a crime that should have got the DA involved.

My reasoning is that the computers were given as part of the school's activities, as part of a mandatory program, if I understand correctly.

Since schools are de facto guardians of students while the students are under their control, they are effectively parents. I believe it's termed in loco parentis.

Anyway, a DA would not get involved if a kid hacked his parent's computers - it would be a domestic issue in most cases. So I say the school should handle it this way as well. If it's bad enough, then expulsion. But not a felony charge. That's not right. Kids will be kids, and schools should shoulder the responsibility, since the law requires parents to surrender their kids to them.

was suspended for violating school rules once.
is a fun story to tell now.

why... by Lazarian · 2005-09-02 16:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why didn't the school administrators simply take the laptops away from them the first time they proved to be untrustworthy? Or the second time?

It's obvious that if those kids circumvented the controls the first time around, they'd do it again.

It looks more like the admins wanted an example made, and it blew up in their faces when the police were called in.

Slashdot Mirror

Charges Against High School Hackers Dropped

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