Slashdot Mirror
The Electrocharger...Any Day Now?
bigmoosie asks: "It has been over a year since the Electrocharger was discussed on Slashdot. It appears to be almost ready for production, or is it still vaporware? Does the Slashdot community think an electric motor replacing the alternator on an internal combustion engine will add 5, 10, or even 15 mpg? How well do you think the super capacitor battery pack will hold up at -20 degrees Fahrenheit? Are there any other products out there that do the same thing? I know this is not as efficient as a hybrid car made at a factory, but it can reduce the fuel consumption and emissions for cars that are 5 or even 10 years old and still on the road. Does have the potential to be an environmental friend or disaster (how long does the battery pack last)?"
"Does have the potential to be an environmental friend or disaster?"
;-)
I know enough logic to know the answer to this question is definitely "yes."
I think the fact that they call this a simple equation gives a pretty accurate vision of the likelihood it will actually work. That definitely looks like bullshit with which to baffle.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Try as I might I can't find a connection between Sigma Automotive and Texas A&M. The only other chatter I see about this on the web are on hybrid enthusiast sites..........I smell a rat.
Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard
Heck, some of us don't even have alternators.
I guess I could replace the generator and regulator, maybe upgrade from 6v to 12v (or more?) at the same time...
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
See:
http://www.hybridcars.com/silverado-sierra.html
They claim (which I can't verify) that the equation is from:
"COURTESY: BOSCH AUTOMOTIVE HANDBOOK, 5TH EDITION"
Looks like you need a degree if physics to figure it out. Also looks like a scan of a piece of paper.
There is the remote possibility that it can have some benefits. The basic idea is vaguely sound. However, they're fond of making wildly inaccurate statements on their website, so I'd take any specific claims with a grain of salt.
My favorite FAQ is:
This is of course an outrageous statement to make without qualifications. My current vehicle does 0-60 in about 4.2 seconds. There is no way in hell that thing is going to give me a 1.2 second 0-60. Perhaps on a car that goes 0-60 much much slower, then maybe you could shave 3 seconds, but even then that sounds like an awful lot.
11*43+456^2
It's not using regenerative breaking. It's capturing the wasted energy the engine create while you are breaking. Unless you are power breaking any energy the engine creates is lost. Same with idling, the engine continues to run even though you are not using that energy.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
That belt will obviously be able to transfer huge amounts of force. And of course, it'll be easy to retrofit and replace the existing serpentine belt.
Ewige Blumenkraft.
There's no rat, but there's no Electrocharger either, and the plans to produce it are currently scrapped.
The connection between Sigma Automotive and Texas A&M is--in a word--me.
You can check out all this with google, here's the facts: I am a grad student at Texas A&M, and my name is David Hoelscher. I work on power electronics and motor drives under Dr. Ehsani. A year and a half ago we got a visit from a man named Michael Van Steenburg, and he had an idea to make retro-fittable hybrid electric vehicles, ala replacing the alternator. The reason he came to Texas A&M is because Ehsani specializes (or specialized?) in switched reluctance motor (SRM) drives.
As an aside: SRM drives are basically a rugged motor drive--they don't need any magnets, so there's no demagnetization problem. Basically the idea is that when you put a paramagnetic material in a magnetic field, the material will temporarily magnetize and align with the field as much as possible (you can find more on paramagnetic at Wikipedia). To achive this, the rotor has to have salient poles--that is, it must physically have a toothed surface. And when you combine a toothed surface and large magnetic forces, you get a loud noise, which is THE biggest problem with SRM.
Back to the subject at hand though...so Mike wanted to use SRM motors because the alternator is near the engine (which is hot) and there's nothing to demagnetize. Ehsani knows motors, but he doesn't manufacture them. In fact, not many companies manufacture them. In this case, he found an company, International USA, who could manufacture them. So things are looking good.
Summer 2004, I take off a summer to work with them, specifically sizing the battery/ultracapacitor pack and determining the best type of battery to use, etc. But every step of the way, the delivery date for the test motor drives is pushed back. The work by International was unfunded, as the company was incredibly small and funding was tight (you can see how small by checking out the contact page: http://www.ecolectrictechnology.com/contactus.htm and yes, I'm the Dave).
At some point, the web page information showed up on Sigma Automotive, and then on Slashdot--I admit, I was surprised when a lab mate told me he read about it in a major news outlet (I hadn't checked Slashdot yet on that day). FYI, the actual webpage for the company is www.ecolectrictechnology.com
We also went out to the SEMA show in Las Vegas, but the most we had to show was a mock-up on an engine--at this point, I had been back at school a few months and just answered questions here and there, maintained contacts, but was largely out of the day-to-day business.
About the start of 2005, key personnel for our product at International had left the company, so there was no one left to work on it, and even if there was, there still wasn't money to pay them.
Since then, the project has been dead in the water. As for me, I'm finishing up my research at A&M and starting the job hunt. If anyone's looking to hire a Masters EE with a power electronics/motor drives background, 5 years of experience building solar cars, and 6 years experience software development, feel free to email me at david dot hoelscher at gmail dot com
The original idea is still a good one, albeit a bit complicated. For example, to add much torque to the driveshaft, there needs to be a significant upgrade to the belt that used to run the alternator, which in turn (likely) requires a new pully, and changing out a lot of belts. The motor drive itself has to fit in the place of the old alternator, so there are size restrictions there. Also, the motor controller needs to go SOMEWHERE, preferably close to the motor but not in the engine compartment. Finally, a mass air flow sensor (or something) needs to be used to determine when to run the motor and when to regenerate. All that while keeping the costs reasonable.
If you factor in that t
You are correct...this was a question I had while working there. I even contacted a company that makes torque converters to see if they even CAN transmit power from the wheels to the engine, and they said no (which isn't very surprising when you see how they work). So, no braking regen for automatic transmissions. However, if you want regen in a manual transmission, you just need to make sure you don't step on the clutch until you absolutely have to--stepping on the clutch right when you start braking will make any regen impossible. See my other post in this topic for more general information.
I admit, it was especially frustrating seeing the outrageous claims from the inside but not having the power/authority to correct them. Although if I did have the power to do such things, the first thing I would do is have the web pages make more sense in terms of both layout/organization. Then I'd delete the excessive, unfounded claims.
Two things, it would be relatively useless in terms of mpg because you still have the same base engine, so you can't really do better than your highway mpg. That's why it was marketed as a performance product--electric motors deliver excellent low-end torque. Second, the storage was not just ultracapacitor, but a passive combination of ultracapacitor and battery...that part was pretty innovative in that it's a hybrid battery pack for a hybrid car.
Yes, it makes sense. With a mechanically commutated motor (i.e. a DC motor that uses physical brushes and commutators.), you can just provide a DC voltage and it will happily run the motor. However, you can also have electrically commutated motors (Brushless DC, SRM, etc.) that run off a DC voltage but use a set of switches (MOSFETs) that need a motor controller to turn on and off the voltages seen by the coils of the motor. Thus, even though the battery is providing a constant DC voltage (as opposed to the 60Hz AC voltage your electrical outlet provides), the motor is reciving varying voltages from the motor controller.
You can even do cooler stuff like using pulse-width modulation (turning on and off switches really fast) to make a DC source look like an AC source, with the benefit that you can control the frequency (which you can't do with your wall outlet). This would be useful for controlling the speed of an AC induction motor, although it can also be used (and has been used) to control brushless DC (BLDC) and switched reluctance motors (SRM).
"Sept 7th, '05: Technically, the maker is ready to launch this device but their hands are tied until the programmer is done refining the software. Please be patient."
Heh, there's a bunch of things about the McMaster Motor that are just plain wrong...for example, the total volume per chamber never changes. If you see a 2D animation, it might look like it, but that thing in the middle is basically a tilted plate that spins, so there is no volume displacement into or out of the chamber whatsoever.
Also, their fuel source (hyrdogen and oxygen) is a problem...you'll note they say they'll use solar power to produce the oxygen and hydrogen and then use that to power the engine...unfortunately, unless you violate a few laws of thermodynamics, you'd be better off using the electrical energy directly, as every step (solar -> electricity -> hydrogen) introduces inefficiencies. Basically, if solar power is used as the input, that is the limiting factor for the maximum average power. And my experience on the solar car team says that right now, for something the size of a car, you don't get nearly enough power compared to the controlled combustion of hydrocarbons...
Compare all that to the starrotor and there's a world of difference. Basically, the starrotor is a small jet engine with a funky-looking compressor and expander (common components on jet engines). Air is brought in and compressed, fuel is added, combustion occurs (pressure goes up), and so more pressure is put on the expander than was put on the compressor, and you have real work being done. The only reason tight tolerances are needed is because (for engine life reasons) they are designing the starrotor such that the inner rotor does not physically contact the outer rotor.
That's not exactly accurate. If that where true, an engie would put out 0ft/lbs of torque at it's idle rpm (~800rpm). You know this is false because if you put your car in drive/first and leave you foot off the gas, (slow clutch release on manuals), the car will move, usually at about 3-5mph. If an auto tranny loses anywheres from 10%-40% efficiency, you are looking at a significant amount of energy.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs