Panasonic Forms Embedded Linux Incubator

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Panasonic Forms Embedded Linux Incubator

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on Tuesday September 13, 2005 @10:32PM from the more-corporations-on-the-bandwagon dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Panasonic has opened an embedded Linux incubator in Silicon Valley, where it hopes to host and collaborate with several Linux startups, in exchange for 'first right-of-refusal on up to 10 percent of the startup's next institutional funding round'. From the article: 'Panasonic uses other open sources OSes in addition to Linux, but Linux has become a top choice due to its cost-effectiveness and robust nature,' according to the Center's director. Panasonic is in the same corporate family as Matsushita, which is one of the founding members of the Consumer Electronics Linux Foundation (CELF)."

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In other news by benja · 2005-09-13 22:38 · Score: 5, Funny

Microsoft has opened a Linux-on-the-desktop incubator, which hopes to host, fund and collaborate with several of the most inventive desktop Linux startups, in exchange for first right-of-refusal of the products going to market.
but Linux has become a top choice by jellomizer · 2005-09-13 22:39 · Score: 4, Insightful

"but Linux has become a top choice due to its cost-effectiveness and robust nature". It couldn't be that next to Windows and Macintosh, Linux has the most recognizable name for an OS? Linux in the the most robust OS out there. I have seen BSDs, Solaris, and systems run much more robustly then Linux. And the BSD's and some versions of Solaris are free as well, and pretty damn close to use.

--
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
1. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-14 00:42 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Being popular is part of being cost effective, more people familiar with it.
2. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by Kjella · 2005-09-14 00:44 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Well, compared to all the "more robust" systems you mention, I imagine better embedded device support is the deciding factor. Robustsness is not an absolute, most embedded devices don't run with the redundancy, quality and whatnot to be a 99,99999% uptime system anyway. Besides, if you take a known, fixed hardware configuration and load test the hell out of it, how many problems do you really have left on linux?
  
  Kjella
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
3. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by donscarletti · 2005-09-14 00:51 · Score: 1
  
  I havn't used Solaris much and I havn't used Unixware at all, but I've seen FreeBSD make mistakes with similar regularity as Linux. It's a good OS for sure, but there is nothing huge between it and Linux.
  Part of the difference I think is that BSD currently has the same overwhelmingly competent userbase that it always had*. this makes it seem hugely more stable in the same way that Linux seemed more stable than it really is back in the '90s. Now, increasingly people are trying Linux where they may not have the same incredible computing skills as those who used it in the past and now users are making mistakes like they would on anything. BSD on the other hand is only known about by the top few echelons of mega geekdom and thus almost all of its users are extracted from there. Linux had a huge drop in apparent stability without any wrongdoings on its own part and there is no reason to believe that BSD would not have the same sort of things. A Linux setup resembling the default install of even Free BSD is as close to completely bulletproof as any BSDs I have encountered. When you slap on X, plug and play configuration daemons, Gnome/KDE and IM client, a bunch of games and whatever else that comes on something like Lindows, Mandriva or Fedora it starts to get a little saggy and gets a couple of bugs whether there is Linux or BSD at the core.
  * Before some smartypants mentions OSX I would point out that if one believes it to be BSD in the same sense as Open, Free, Net, Dragonfly, etc. BSD they seriously need to actually sit down and use both of them on the same day. Something that uses a thin layer of BSD sandwiched between Mach and Aqua is completely different for all practical purposes.
  
  --
  When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
4. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by oringo · 2005-09-14 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  But Linux is not an OS, It should be GNU/Linux!!! Damn those bastards ruining my perfect day!
5. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-14 03:02 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Actually, I think the main difference between Linux and *BSD is that *BSD doesn't come packaged with politics and a revolution. The BSD folks are more interested in make a stable, secure, usable OS than preaching from a soapbox about how the world is going to hell in a handbasket if people don't use the GPL. The different BSD distros have their own particular goals, but there is a lot of sharing between them. OTOH, Linux distros are more concerned with promoting their own distro and to hell with everyone else. So, yeah... there are a lot of differences between BSD and Linux.
6. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by donscarletti · 2005-09-14 03:58 · Score: 1
  
  I've heard that BSD authors are completely apolitical many times. However I've read far too many rants about how this makes BSD far better than Linux to believe this to be anything other than blatant hypocrisy. BSD users take so much time to denounce the GPL as being not free enough and denounce other BSDs for not doing things the "right way" and denounce Linux as being a operating system for petty political children that any assertion that BSD people do not have politics is completely laughable.
  You are forgetting:
  * BSD does not have a standard widget set either, GTK+ and QT battle it out on that front as fiercely as any other.
  * There arn't many distributions of BSD, no there are multiple completely rewritten operating systems from the core up. Free, Net and Open BSDs don't just rely on different package managers, they have completely different kernels and core libraries.
  * Theo de Raadt is a BSD developer, not a Linux developer. Need I say more?
  Linux has never had a major divergent fork. Can you name a BSD that has gone 10 years without one? That NetBSD/OpenBSD split was hardly amiable. FreeBSD/DragonflyBSD wasn't any more cooperative, it just had a little less Ad Hominem mailing list posts involved.
  Don't get me wrong. I think that most of the major BSDs are great operating systems that work very nicely. It's just that the developers are not just arrogant, stubborn and counterproductive (like the Linux devs), they are smug about pretending they are not.
  Linux is for people who hate windows.
  BSD is for people who hate Linux.
  
  --
  When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
7. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by freshman_a · 2005-09-14 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  There arn't many distributions of BSD, no there are multiple completely rewritten operating systems from the core up. Free, Net and Open BSDs don't just rely on different package managers, they have completely different kernels and core libraries.
  
  And that's worse than having 300+ Linux distros?
  
  Theo de Raadt is a BSD developer, not a Linux developer. Need I say more?
  
  Yes, you do need to say more. He leads the development of one of the most secure OSes around. The man has a reputation for expressing his opinion, so what? How is he any different from RMS or ESR?
  
  Linux has never had a major divergent fork.
  
  The kernel hasn't, no. But like I said above, there are 300+ distros. How is that better? Why should I use Ubuntu over Debian? Why should I use Fedora over Mandriva? I can certainly tell you that I'd use NetBSD for older obscure hardware, OpenBSD for a firewall, and FreeBSD for a desktop though. The goals of each are clear-cut. Even though you can use any of them for any purpose, there are situations where one might be more suited than the rest.
  
  I think that most of the major BSDs are great operating systems that work very nicely. It's just that the developers are not just arrogant, stubborn and counterproductive (like the Linux devs), they are smug about pretending they are not.
  
  After reading your your last 2 posts, I wonder a) how much have you actually used any of the "major BSDs" and b) how many conversations have you had with the Linux and BSD devs?
  
  --
  Slackware
8. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by WilliamSChips · 2005-09-14 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  And that's worse than having 300+ Linux distros?
  Depends on how you look at it. With Linux, you can be sure you're having the same kernel(the distributor may add a few more features, but it's closer than any of the BSDs), the same GNU, etc, etc.Yes, you do need to say more. He leads the development of one of the most secure OSes around. The man has a reputation for expressing his opinion, so what? How is he any different from RMS or ESR? You're in total agreement with him. He wasn't saying that Theo was any different--he was saying that Theo was the same.
  Why should I use Ubuntu over Debian?
  In a nutshell, Ubuntu has better desktop support, Debian better server support.
  Why should I use Fedora over Mandriva?
  Because Mandriva is pure, unmitigated crap. :P
  I use Gentoo(actually the most BSD-like, due to Portage) which is designed to be as customizable as possible. Each distro has its niches, some are better than others for certain things, some are just plain bad(*coughcoughMandrivacoughcough*).
  After reading your your last 2 posts, I wonder a) how much have you actually used any of the "major BSDs" and b) how many conversations have you had with the Linux and BSD devs?
  I have never used any *BSD or had any conversations with any devs, but I'm sure there are probably just as many (per total number of devs) arrogant, stubborn, and counterproductive devs in the BSD teams as in Linux.
  
  --
  Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
9. Re:but Linux has become a top choice by donscarletti · 2005-09-14 15:47 · Score: 1
  
  You just proved my point that BSD is just as heated with politics as Linux through your post. Thank you. Though it needs no reply to prove my point since that has been done for me, I may as well answer the questions asked of me.
  And that's worse than having 300+ Linux distros?
  
  Well it does cause a lot of code duplication. Repackaging can be done by people with fairly minimal skillsets, whereas rewriting the core of an OS takes quite a bit of skill. All linux distros use the same Kernel written by Linus and co. and the same basic C library and system tools written by GNU and simply add other things on top of it. Sure, they write their own initscripts, but basically all that is required for packaging is monkey work. The BSDs need tallented coders to maintain their fragmentation since they have to implement whole new features and there just isn't enough of them in the developer pool to do that. Thats why not all BSDs have good SMP support yet.
  Yes, you do need to say more. He leads the development of one of the most secure OSes around. The man has a reputation for expressing his opinion, so what? How is he any different from RMS or ESR?
  
  No different, no different at all, they are all excelent programmers who are all dripping with politics. That is my point.
  After reading your your last 2 posts, I wonder a) how much have you actually used any of the "major BSDs" and b) how many conversations have you had with the Linux and BSD devs?
  
  a) Quite a bit actually, I use a home webserver that runs FreeBSD. As I said before, I quite like BSD.
  b) 2 and 1 respectively (if you only count kernel devs for both).
  
  --
  When Argumentum ad Hominem falls short, try Argumentum ad Matrem
If Panasonic like Linux... by zenmojodaddy · 2005-09-13 22:40 · Score: 4, Interesting

... is there any chance of them selling a Toughbook preloaded with it? Please?

I have a second hand 233Mhz CF-27 running Slackware and it beats the crap out of the £1000 + Acer with WinXP my boss bought himself...
1. Re:If Panasonic like Linux... by FudRucker · 2005-09-13 22:57 · Score: 1
  
  if Panasonic started selling Toughbooks with Linux preloaded i would buy one, maybe two...
  
  --
  Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
2. Re:If Panasonic like Linux... by stripyd · 2005-09-13 23:26 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  ... is there any chance of them selling a Toughbook preloaded with it? Please?
  Chance would be a fine thing. Being windows-ignorant I first slung GNU/linux onto a cf-25 in 1996 and racked up nearly half a million miles with it before replacing it with a T1 which I am now bumming round marinas in the balkans with. Great kit (survived falls from moving westfalia van, soakings in the tropics and all kinds of abuse) but forget support: UK support won't even answer your emails on OS neutral hardware questions 85% of the time.
  Before straying too far off topic, I doubt the development of drivers for panasonic embedded linux products is going to leak over into helping out the toughbook user who wants a copy of lindvd or needs to get that SD slot working. On the upside though, most everything on my T1 already works out of the box with SuSE 9.3 (except the SD card slot, but including the winmodem and acpi). Things aint the labour of love they used to be 10 years ago. Check out the reviews of toughbooks on Werner Heuser's invaluable tuxmobil.org.
  Linux on toughbooks always struck me as being an ideal combination (all the tools you need for any bizzare geek situation in any corner of the globe). Anyone know of any large organisations using toughbooks with customised linux (with or without Panasonics complicity)?
3. Re:If Panasonic like Linux... by zenmojodaddy · 2005-09-14 00:05 · Score: 1
  
  For the benefit of trolls, let me clarify. I can do everything on my laptop that my boss needs to do on his, though it might take a little longer. I have NEVER had it crash on me, whereas his regularly freaks out on him. Even after seven or eight years out in the field with a utility company before I got it, my Toughbook feels indestructible compared to the flimsy plastic on my boss's laptop.
  
  I repeat: beats the crap out of it.
4. Re:If Panasonic like Linux... by stripyd · 2005-09-14 00:11 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Did you get sound working on that CF-25?
  Yep, definitely. I don't remember which sound chip it used but I vaguely remember it worked fine with the SB driver with a 2.2.something kernel. Sadly it's currently in storage a bit too far away to easily check...
  maybe I should try and keep this on topic with the observation that the average device panasonic are looking at embedded linux for probably has more resources than my old 133MHz/40MB RAM cf-25 :-)
5. Re:If Panasonic like Linux... by Brunellus · 2005-09-14 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  a lot of toughbooks seem to be showing up government-surplus. I think they were military issued, but can someone with time in the service confirm this?
Japanese have always used open standards by core · 2005-09-13 22:46 · Score: 5, Informative

Japanese CE engineers have eaten TRON for breakfast since they were little. CE devices have outgrown TRON now that everything requires handling digital file formats and releasing code on tight schedules while not crashing the whole device if possible. The transition to Linux in Japan is massive (teams I worked with or talked to at Hitachi, Matsushita, Mitsubishi, NEC, all make Linux-based devices). Montavista Japan / ELT is a growing force.

--
Hit action puzzler for mac and pc, Atlantis: http://www.funpause.com/
Smart move ? by BlueTrin · 2005-09-13 23:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

I was wondering myself if this would have an effect on Panasonic's products. Because if you want to use Linux, you just need to hire some talented programmers with some experience at developping hardware using Linux. What is the real effect (if there is any) of such an announcement compared to creating a new department within the company or changing their strategy, asidde from the marketing effect ?

--
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
1. Re:Smart move ? by aussie_a · 2005-09-13 23:03 · Score: 1
  
  What is the real effect (if there is any) of such an announcement compared to creating a new department within the company or changing their strategy, asidde from the marketing effect ?
  
  What's the effects of making an announcement besides marketing? There is none. Marketing is the only reason the announcement was made.
I believe...... by amodm · 2005-09-13 23:00 · Score: 3, Interesting

apart from the robust nature of Linux that they are talking about, one of the biggest reasons why Linux might be helpful in the embedded scenario is the almost infinite level of customization and tuning that can be done with it.

In the embedded scenario, its the customization that counts more IMHO.

PS: Not that robustness doesn't count. But (as someone pointed out) there ARE systems which come pretty close, if not better, to linux.
Embedded Linux Incubator? by eglass1 · 2005-09-13 23:01 · Score: 4, Funny

Probably a good choice; embedded Linux can keep eggs twice as warm as WinCE, from what I hear.
Linux on an incubator! by strider44 · 2005-09-13 23:08 · Score: 2, Funny

Wow! They run Linux on anything nowadays!
1. Re:Linux on an incubator! by BlueTrin · 2005-09-13 23:09 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Here are the first pictures from Panasonic
  
  --
  Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
2. Re:Linux on an incubator! by reogoyme · 2005-09-13 23:14 · Score: 1
  
  I don't get it. Sure, maybe a penguin (representing Tux) sitting on an egg would be funny, but an ostrich?!
Linux Incubator by EnsilZah · 2005-09-13 23:15 · Score: 2, Funny

Yes, but does it hatch pinguins?
Not to nitpick, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-09-13 23:33 · Score: 2, Informative

Panasonic is in the same corporate family as Matsushita,
Um, Panasonic IS Matsushita, or is a marketing brand-name for Matsushita. Matsushita is the Global Company with child-companies or "divisions", if you will, under it which carry the Panasonic Name. For instance, Panasonic Mobile Communications Co., Ltd. (PMC) is a division or child-company of Matsushita Electronics Incorperated (MEI), the parent "company" which presides over all of Panasonic. I know, because I work for them.
Set Top Boxes by bjbyrne · 2005-09-13 23:37 · Score: 2, Informative

Panasonic has been using Linux for a while with their set top boxes. I found this old cnet story here. http://news.com.com/2102-1016_3-996984.html?tag=st .util.print
Re:MOD DOWN GRANDPARENT! by zootm · 2005-09-13 23:37 · Score: 1, Offtopic

It's Linux Devices! It's not as if it's going to get slashdotted.

This is where we discover – to our horror – that the whole site is hosted on a Zaurus over 802.11...
Which part of EMBEDDED by FreeUser · 2005-09-14 01:13 · Score: 1

Which part of EMBEDDED Linux startups didn't you grok?

Linux is one of the top, and arguably the top, choice for embedded projects. Hell, my wireless router/firewall/hub runs Linux, my TiVo runs Linux, even my damn cell phone runs Linux.

This isn't to say there aren't other products competing, but it isn't surprising that a free, open, portable, fairly lean kernel with more applications available than God has risen to the top, and to anyone who has done any work with embedded devices, it is no surprise that this kernel was indeed Linux.

--
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
1. Re:Which part of EMBEDDED by rubycodez · 2005-09-14 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  over a dozen rock stable embedded os out there, including BSD-based ones. Some have even smaller footprint and better performance than Linux-based OS on given hardware
good, but not good enough for me by drwho · 2005-09-14 02:19 · Score: 1

I like the idea of an embedded linux incubator. My company, which develops wifi mesh routers, uses embedded linux and weve been looking at going to an incubator to sort of help things run more smoothly. The problem with this is that's it's in silicon valley. I know I shouldn't expect Panasonic to bend to my whims, but if it were in the Boston area, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

I am dismayed by so much off-topic bullshit in the comments for this story. I'm also irritated at the BSD vs. Linux argument. I'd like to use BSD, I really would. But it just isn't ready. NetBSD is the only one that even claims to have support for the broadcom mipsel processor I am using, and yet it doesn't work and the mailing lists for it are a ghost town. No support is available for it. I even tried to see if I could buy some support from Wasabi Systems, but they don't support the processor (though they would be willing to port their tools to it if I paid..sorry i don't have that kind of money). With so little BSD activity on this processor, it would be insane for me to try to jump to bsd from linux. But, if someone experienced wanted to help, I'd be very willing to give it a shot.
Who's modding this jerk up? by smithmc · 2005-09-14 05:09 · Score: 1, Offtopic

Did anyone read the parent post before modding it "Informative"?
I felt the slime drip out of my anus. I put my pinky finger up there and gave it a lick. So good, like warm honey and milk.
I wanna know who found this informative! (Actually, no, I don't think I do.)

--
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
Probably not GNU/Linux by Beowabbit · 2005-09-14 05:14 · Score: 1

I know this was a joke, but just to pretend I don't get the joke: Actually, on an embedded platform (at least one without a lot of storage), a Linux system is probably going to have very little GNU code. An embedded Linux system is likely to use BusyBox for basic Unix-compatible commands like ls and rm, and something like uClibc or dietlibc for its C library, and won't have things like Emacs or a compiler actually on the system. So it's unlikely to have much actual GNU-project code on it, if any.
Just like this?? by Hugonz · 2005-09-14 07:37 · Score: 1

I mean... just like this but with embedded Linux?
Cool...
Yeehaa! by Mr+Europe · 2005-09-14 19:35 · Score: 1

I just bought a Panasonic test winner digital camera and it rocks! 12X optical zoom, yet lighter and smaller than competitors. Long batt life. USB works without extra drivers (Canon is famous for not working).

And now I hear Panasonic is also Linux friend!

I love that camera...