Rickford Grant Interview

An anonymous reader writes "An interview was recently conducted with Rickford Grant, the author of "Linux for Non-Geeks" and the new "Linux Made Easy". Grant is outspoken in his opinions and offers a number of unique views on topics as diverse as Windows Vista, desktop Linux, GNOME vs. KDE, and lots more. Part of the interview is spent talking about his new book but the bulk of the interview is a discussion of his views on pertinent topics and news. The author is a strong supporter of desktop Linux and has been getting quite a bit of attention for his views on the subject."

Comments

Yin and Yang

[ackthpt]

As for whether or not there is a place for Windows in the computing world... well, I would definitely say yes. I don't like Windows, and, from what I've heard and read, I don't particularly like Mr. Bill [Gates], but you have to give credit where credit is due. If it weren't for the Gates gang, I really doubt the personal computer world would be where it is today.

This is also is a strong reason why Linux, MacOS, etc, get better. Without Microsoft's machinations there wouldn't be much motivation for innovation. Imagine a world where the PC actually died out due to the superior interface and usability of the Mac, yet the Mac remained expensive and advanced slowly, painstakingly.

[On the arrive of Vista/IE7]Also, the fact that Vista will reportedly only work on machines with accelerated graphics might also cause some folks lacking in that department to take a second look at the Linux option.

Or in our case stagnate at XP for years to come.

The author is a strong supporter of desktop Linux and has been getting quite a bit of attention for his views on the subject." "Steve, hire him and put him in the office next to ESR."

Re:Yin and Yang

[Alioth]

No, I don't think it needed Microsoft or the PC.

When the Mac was storming ahead in the 1980s, if the PC had faded into obscurity, there were many other architectures that could have quite easily become what the PC eventually did. Capable computers like the Acorn Archimedes running RiscOS, the Amiga, Atari - any one of those could have easily burgeoned had the IBM PC failed.

Re:Yin and Yang

[Bogtha]

If it weren't for the Gates gang, I really doubt the personal computer world would be where it is today.

So true. It would be much further along.

If Microsoft hadn't crushed DR-DOS, perhaps Digital Research would have come out with something better than Windows. If Microsoft hadn't crushed Netscape, perhaps Netscape's vision of network applications in the vein of XUL would have come along years earlier. If Microsoft hadn't included illegally copied software in DOS from Stac Electronics, perhaps Apple would have been able to compete more effectively and brought us a stable operating system years before Microsoft managed to do it. If Microsoft hadn't conned their way into a cheap deal for Mosaic, perhaps Internet Explorer wouldn't have the death grip it has on the market, and perhaps web developers would be able to use CSS, PNG, HTML, HTTP, etc without being held back by Internet Explorer's flaws.

Without Microsoft's machinations there wouldn't be much motivation for innovation.

Without Microsoft's machinations, there would be much more possibility for innovation. It's pretty hard to innovate when the biggest software company in the world is willing to break the law and use all of its resources to crush competition.

The number of things Microsoft have done to destroy and hold back competition is mind-boggling. I have no problems believing that if another company, run by people who weren't quite so willing to break the law, had been in the same position as Microsoft, the computer industry would be much further along.

Re:Yin and Yang

[Bogtha]

What in the hell does stealing a drive compression routine for DOS, a 16-bit, non-protected, single threaded operating system have to do with Apple delivering us a stable operating system?

Did the drive compression add value to Microsoft's operating system? Could the added value conceivably have cost Apple sales? If Apple had a better position in the market with more money, could they have done better?

My point was that Microsoft broke the law numerous times in order to gain an unfair advantage over companies that could have outperformed them if Microsoft hadn't have broken the law.

standards don't mean shit. They really don't. No for profit entity has ever strived for interoperability unless it was in their absolute best interest.

Before Internet Explorer came on the scene, there was at least a little healthy competition in the browser market. With no browser having 90%+ market share, interoperability was in everybody's best interests.

He who has the money and the marketshare makes the standards. Period. It's that way in every facet of capitalism, whether it be computers or prosthetic limbs.

Rich people and rich organisations are not above the law and should still be held accountable for their actions.

Some of the things in our society make Gates & Co. seem like angels.

Completely irrelevent. Transgressions of unrelated organisations do not have the slightest bearing on whether or not Microsoft held back the computer industry.

Re:Yin and Yang

[Hognoxious]

Imagine a world where people don't hard code the absolute width of text columns. Or where there's a nice link to a printer-friendly version.

It's not Mr Firstname-looks-like-a-surname's world, apparently.

Technical Subjects

[Brainix]

My dad doesn't know as much about computers as I do. Whenever he asks a technical question, he reminds me, "Simplify, but don't over-simplify."

From this interview, it looks like Rickford Grant knows what he's talking about, but crosses the line into over-simplification.

I don't think I'll recommend this book.

Re:Technical Subjects

[mblase]

Whenever he asks a technical question, he reminds me, "Simplify, but don't over-simplify."

I think he's paraphrasing Einstein: "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

Nice interview

[MaestroSartori]

It's always interesting to hear other people's opinions. One bit I felt a need to comment on was the following:

Interviewer: Why is every Windows user not on Linux?

Grant: Some don't care, others don't know, others are afraid to try.

Some of us do care, know all too well, and haven't been afraid to try - but our apps just aren't on Linux. In my case, one remarkably lovely music app keeps me using Windows. I also have no idea if Linux supports my Terratec sound card, but it probably does. Last time I used Linux audio was problematic to say the least, but that was around Mandrake 9 and with a Soundblaster, so it may well have changed for the better.

It's all about the apps, sometimes people seem forget that. If all the apps that a given person needs are available, and are easy enough to use, they'll probably be entirely happy on whatever OS they end up with. For someone with a specific itch to scratch, that isn't always the case...

Re:Nice interview

[slashflood]

I know, that nothing comes close to Ableton Live, but I like the combination of seq24, ZynAddSubFX and LinuxSampler. I haven't tried FreeWheeling so far, but it looks very interesting. Absolutely not comparable to Live, but a very interesting approach.

Re:Nice interview

[kfg]

One of the issues here is not to ask "does it run my app?," but rather to ask "does it do this?"

Often the answer is, "Yes. Yes it does; and here's how."

Since Linux is structured as a workplace for engineers, rather than as a platform for application sales, it uses the "tool" metaphor, rather than the "app" metaphor. It doesn't have a machine that cranks out chairs at the touch of a button. It's got table saws and drill presses and screw drivers, but. . .

it's also got the means to automate the tools to be a machine that cranks out chairs at the touch of a button.

It doesn't have a machine to crank out chairs, it's a machine to crank out machines.

But here's the kicker; we share the machines.

And the tools, which, since they are independant of the "app" are independantly upgradable. You only have one spell checking tool on your system which all of your "apps" share. Only one dictionary to maintain, only one set of commands to learn, and if a better one comes along you just swap it out and every "app" instantly has a better spell checker. Just like buying a better table saw instead of buying a new chair making machine to make squarer cuts, although perhaps drill poorer holes.

But if you ask if a particular "app" has spell checking, from the Windows user point of view the answer will be "no."

The problem is that from a Windows user point of view they don't look like what you expect an "app" to look like, although they perform the same function.

Think function, not app.

But sometimes, you're right, the answer is also,"No, Linux does not perform that function yet, because the function is a Windows app."

Just not as often as most people think.

KFG

Re:Over-under...

[temojen]

Whose desktop?

Linux vs Windows

[Daveznet]

It sounds like he knows what hes talking about, even though he is not a fan of Microsoft he knows when to give credit when its due. Microsoft did help revolutionize the Computer Industry as we know it today whether it was for the good or bad. What I belive is that use an operating system that meets your needs, if you are gonna be playing alot of games and watching movies and surfing the web then sure go with windows , if you are going to be doing some hardcore development where you need access to alot of open source applications and need more control of your system then Linux is the way to go. Its all about going with what suits your needs.

More importantly

[DogDude]

Don't forget that there's a large contingent of us who know that Linux is out there, but simply don't care. I know it's out there, I know that some people like it, but I really don't care enough to spend time trying to Google help for an OS when the current one I have (Windows 2000) isn't broken. If some Linux zealot were to approach me, foaming at the mouth about "Linuxth", my response would be "Why should I bother? I've got better things to do." It's on par with a mechanic insisting that people have to switch to Wankel rotary engines because they're better. 99.99% of people are gonna shrug their shoulders and say: "so what?"

Re:More importantly

[ruben.gutierrez]

For some people, Linux is one of their "better things to do." You're right, noboby should try to convince you of anything, especially if you're already convinced otherwise. But, if you have an idea in which implementing Linux could save you or your customers a bundle of money, Googling for help with the OS is not a waste of time.

Re:More importantly

[hungrygrue]

Quick Example: In Firefox on Linux, the OK and Cancel buttons are reversed... why?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. If you mean that they are the reverse of other applications, then I guess I just have never noticed. If you mean "in the opposite order from Windows", then who really cares? Developers better things to do than check with their Windows user neighbor to see which button Windows puts on the left and which it puts on the right.

Re:More importantly

[marcosdumay]

I also felt that I was more productive on Linux just for programming, but this was by 1999 - 2000. It is only a matter of getting used to the new system, and discover what tools are usefull*. By that time, I used Windows a lot of times, and rebooted my machine very often.

Now I my feelings are the oposite, I hate working on Windows. I assume that this is both because of getting used to another way of doing things and because of the huge degradation that Windows interface suffered from that time to now.

*And a matter of the tool existing. There where a lot of gaps by 1999 - 2000.

Re:More importantly

[benjcurry]

I do agree...in the sense that everyone finds what works for them. I do, however, think that people would get a lot more out of their computers if they all started on Linux rather than Windows. The longer I use Linux, the more powerful it feels. I could NOT go back to the Windows world now when I live in a utopia of full OS and application updates at a single command. No adware, spyware or virus and no system performance degradation or crashes even though I've been using the same install for over a year. I used Windows going back to 3.1 through XP and 2003 (XP for years, 2003 a bit), and I'm glad I've left that world behind.

by whos book?

[myspys]

"topics as diverse as Windows Vista, desktop Linux, GNOME vs. KDE"

i can think of things that are WAY more diverse

Why?

[mblase]

Why is every Windows user not on Linux?

• Because of the pervasive (mis?)conception that Linux requires a lot of geeky tweaking to get it to work.
• Because Linux on the desktop has been chasing Windows for years, feature-wise, and has yet to get ahead.
• Because they like to play games they can buy at Wal-Mart.
• Because they have to use Microsoft Office to be fully compatible with the .doc files they get from work.
• Because they haven't heard of it.
• Because Windows is already bundled on the PC they bought at Best Buy.
• Because they're used to Windows.
• Because they don't know the difference between GNOME and KDE, and honestly don't care.

Or something like that.

Re:Why?

[jedidiah]

The bulk of your bulletpoints can be summed up in one phrase:

        "it's gotta be DOS compatable"

This is why we're not complaining about the Apple hegemony despite the fact that their product is vastly superior (to windows) and has been for over 20 years.

Whether or not KDE & GNOME have eclipsed windows doesn't really enter into it. DOS and Win3x both demonstrated this rather well.

Doing my best to hold back the spelling fascism...

[DeafByBeheading]

...but both you/you're and its/it's errors in the same article? I don't complain about that in /. posts (hell, it's an informal forum), but if you're going to write an article, at least try to appear semi-literate...

Not particularly impressed with the content, either. His "Why Xandros?" paragraph is somewhat insightful, but nothing others haven't been saying for ages...

"If I had never used a computer before..."

[Anonymous Coward]

A friend of mine bought his first PC just a few months ago. Guess who supports it? He had it a week before I had to reload XP, as viruses and spyware had it completely unuseable.

I reloaded XP from the Ghost disks, installed Zone Alarm, Firefox, and a couple of anti-spyware apps, removed the IE icons (I wish I could remove IE itself), and gave him a few pointers on safe computing.

It lasted three weeks before it needed Ghosting again. Seems he let his girlfriend's click-happy kid loose on it.

This time after installing the ghost image and safety apps, I also installed Mandrake, set up so it logged into a default user by itself on boot. No logging into "the computer," no running a proprietary DSL app to get on the internet; just turn on the computer and it works.

Three weeks later it was hosed again - seems he "needed" Yahoo! IM, which was a Windows app. I couldn't get the Linux version working. Damn.

Finally I remembered getting my daughter on AIM with Gaim - and lo and behold, it works on Yahoo, too.

What sold him on Linux? "You can click on anything," I told him. I mean, between him, his porn-happy nephew and girl friend's kid, somebody was going to click on "anything" anyway.

The next week the KDE desktop was littered with downloaded Flash installs, which the kid couldn't install. Heh, even if she'd got the Linux versions rather than the Windows version it still wouldn't install, as I'm the only one who knows the root password.

It's been a few weeks since I've had to reinstall anything.

The moral of the story? New users should not be trusted with Windows, or with a Linux root password. And unless you're into games (and new users aren't) there is really no valid need for Windows at home.

Why windows?

[JymBrittain]

I respectfully submit that it boils down to this... Windows, as an operating system, will be threatened when Joe 6 pack can go into or call a consumer electronics store and pick up a computer pre-loaded with an alternate OS that will run the games their kids want.

Re:Over-under...

[hungrygrue]

I have not used Windows since 1995. I fully admit that Linux has long been an operating system that requires more experience, thinking, problem solving, and learning than the average person wants to invest. Most people certainly would never immagine running an operating system where they ever have to edit a configuration file by hand - fstab? huh? I would say that that has changed quite a bit in recent years. I am now running Ubuntu and can honestly say that this is the first time, after a decade as a Linux user, that I have installed a distro and not once had to touch a configuration file or manually set up anything. My sound, wireless, X11, etc. were all correctly configured. We have now gotten to the point where Linux is very much "ready for the desktop" with one little catch: It is perfect as a primary operating system for anyone with broadband internet. Dialup users would be unable to install or update software without a lot of time and hassle. Windows makes more sense for dial-up users, but no sense for anyone with a broadband connection.

Re:Why I'm not on Linux yet

[someone300]

NTFS to Reiser4 can be a confusing task, but it's not Windows' or Linux's fault as such.
What I did is put all my documents onto another hdd (no point keeping system files...) then completely reformatted with reiserfs 3 (for posix acls and posix extended data). The installer can do that automatically with most distros.

If you're a console user in Windows, you'll be very satisfied with the terminal/console on Linux, since the commands are much more powerful and complete, and the basic ones aren't even a great deal different from DOS.
There are also many sites with the equivelant commands listed.

Also, for the fun of it, there are several DOS emulators.

Writing quick programs in Linux (C, C#, C++, Bash, Python, Perl) has proved to be much much easier in Linux than Windows in my experience.. as well as more complicated ones. Then again, I have always been on a limited budget and could never use more than the likes of DevC++ on Windows.

English and Japanese is possible in Linux too (at least with Gnome). There is a keyboard layout switcher, and if you want to start a single application in a different locale and language, you just need to change an environment variable.
GTK+ with Pango is often praised for it's unicode and multilingual support.

Linux was a bit difficult to start using (especially since I chose Gentoo, since I wanted to learn), but once I learned it, it was much faster to use. Of course, if you really want to stay on Windows it's your choice, but don't give up on Linux.

Who Rickford?

[mooingyak]

It nice that Rickford grant interview, but who Rickford?

We need Windows users..

[barrrrrnnneeeyy!!]

Linux exists for those of us who like to feel that we've accomplished something with our desktop other than understand the mind of some Microsoft employee. If everyone used Linux, we would have nobody to feel superior to.