Music Giants Sue Baidu Over Music Downloads

chengee writes "Music giants Universal, EMI, Warner, Sony BMG and their local subsidiaries are suing Chinese search engine Baidu for allegedly infringing the copyright of hundreds of songs, a press report said Friday. Looks like the party is going to be over for Chinese downloaders. But more importantly how will this lawsuit turn out in a place known for its lax copyright laws?"

Comments

When it suits them...

[ackthpt]

Looks like the party is going to be over for Chinese downloaders. But more importantly how will this lawsuit turn out in a place known for its lax copyright laws?"

This round? Probably something in spirit in favor of the RIAA, but still not as well enforced or as speedily as they would like. Not as fast as, say a tune with the lyrics like "Taiwan Independence Day, Hooray!" or "Falun Gong, get it on", where everyone would remark at the swiftness and finality of their enforcement.

But with the looming US debt owed to China, how long before they say, "No, Yankee, we don't feel like it. What are you going to do about it" and grin the grin of one who knows they hold the other by the short hairs?

China has a track record of honoring treaties and peace when they have larger goals in sight. Once they have achieved those goals... The West will see how much they really care what the rest of the world has to say and tell it what opinion it should share of the great PRC.

They're patient, they've put up with hundreds of years of crap and they know it. Has the West forgotten?

There has been a growing concern among investors over the company's prospects. Its shares dropped 28 percent in New York Wednesday after two analysts warned the stock was seriously overvalued.

And yet Google isn't?

Re:When it suits them...

[orzetto]

China has a track record of honoring treaties and peace when they have larger goals in sight. Once they have achieved those goals...

Give credit where credit is due. No country ever respected treaties they could infringe without fear of punishment, if they had something to gain from it.

It's just a fact of history: the signature on a treaty is no stronger than the signing arm.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

China has a track record of honoring treaties and peace when they have larger goals in sight.

The US has a track record of dishonoring treaties and peace when they have a larger goal in sight...

What was your point again ?

Re:When it suits them...

[kfg]

Has the West forgotten?

The West blames them for giving us opium. Given that how can the West understand a damned thing about the current behavior of China?

KFG

Re:When it suits them...

[rainman_bc]

It's just a fact of history: the signature on a treaty is no stronger than the signing arm.

Which is exactly why the US completely disregards NAFTA - the framework they themselves helped build.

They only apply NAFTA as it suits them, not the other way around. The US is no different than China IMO.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

"They're patient, they've put up with hundreds of years of crap and they know it. Has the West forgotten?"

Forgotten what? Crap, no we've not forgotten crap. You've just served up a load of it. Substantiate your remark. I read widely enough in Chinese history to be able to tag along. China's history is no better or worse than any other large nation state. Their history is a long record of treating their own as bad as they've been treated by any other nation.

Historically China has displayed regional chauvinism and tribal infighting akin to most loosely bound nation states. The glaring recurrence in Chinese history is their belief that they are the sole residents of the Middle Kingdom, half way between heaven and earth, and the rest of the world is the netherworld populated by savages.

Re:When it suits them...

[ackthpt]

The West blames them for giving us opium. Given that how can the West understand a damned thing about the current behavior of China?

No kidding. Europe and the USA were in the process of carving up China like a roast turkey. A colony for me, a colony for you, a colony for the other guys, and one for you, too...

The great insult, when the british troops chased the dowager empress from the forbidden city, though they'll easily overlook the decadence of the manchus, and the west backing the utterly crimal KMT was harder to overlook than Mao's follies which cost tens of millions to famine.

An man from China once said, China has every thing, what could the rest of the world offer in trade? The answer was thest addicting millions to opium and fighting the boxers and chasing the empress from her throne for the right.

Re:When it suits them...

[ackthpt]

The US has a track record of dishonoring treaties and peace when they have a larger goal in sight... What was your point again ?

The US isn't in the habit of arresting journalists when it suits them to have a few bargaining chips.

The US just makes people disappear for national security.

Re:When it suits them...

[Dachannien]

Sometimes I wish that were true, because copyright law (in the US and many other countries) is bound up in international treaties, making it a lot harder to change the law to something sane.

Re:When it suits them...

[ackthpt]

Their history is a long record of treating their own as bad as they've been treated by any other nation.

The difference, and something which americans seem to think only applies to themselves, this is chinese doing it to chinese, which is for the most part, quite acceptable. Many arabs feel the same way, which has a lot to do with the utter mess Iraq has become.

When the west carved up China, and Yankee Traders were looking for an in, past near monopoly by the british, the chinese were largely treated as second-class citizens in their own country, one with an illustrious and ancient history.

Re:When it suits them...

[Jherek Carnelian]

But with the looming US debt owed to China, how long before they say, "No, Yankee, we don't feel like it. What are you going to do about it" and grin the grin of one who knows they hold the other by the short hairs?

It is a two way street and will be for quite some time. China buys a lot of US bonds. But the US is China's largest market by far and for the forseeable future. They need the US to keep buying from them (remember the whole brohaha over most-favored-nation trading status). Additionally, China has a couple of looming problems - the double-digit economic growth rates are unstustainble for the long run, their economy will slow, at which point they will need the US market even more. Secondly, the one-child policy has produced a major age inversion - it is going to get harder to support the aging population with less able-bodied people entering the workforce than are retiring from it.

Over the past year, China has made a show of cracking down on flagrant IP violators. My impression (and that's all it is, an impression) is that big crackdowns have had no long-term effects on the 'market' as a whole.

This case is different in that Baidu is in the top-5 websites with the most page-hits in all of the world, I suspect that the Chinese goverment has "pride" in Baidu and a big punishment would be considered a loss of face. But, big show-punishments seems to be how they've handled similar complaints recently. So there is probably some level of internal conflict here. Just my occidental analysis of the situation.

And yet Google isn't [overvalued]?

Not the way Baidu is, see this analysis.

Re:When it suits them...

[meringuoid]

An man from China once said, China has every thing, what could the rest of the world offer in trade? The answer was thest addicting millions to opium and fighting the boxers and chasing the empress from her throne for the right.

The man in question was the Emperor Qinglong, in reply to an embassy from King George III, who was trying to open up trade with China. His reply is... amazing. The sheer arrogance and, so it seems, total ignorance on the part of the Celestial Emperor of what he was dealing with, is quite astounding. To say to the ruler of the rising British Empire, "Tremblingly obey and show no negligence!"... wow. Not really surprising things ended badly there. The whole letter is just one long spectacular insult.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

Check your history again. There was no US colonial intentions in China.

One result was a treaty between China and the United States, supplementary to the 1858 treaty. This, usually called the Burlingame Treaty,. was signed in 1868. It was a treaty of friendship based on Western principles of international law. One clause encouraged Chinese immigration--laborers were then much in demand in the West; later the heavy influx of Chinese under its provisions caused friction on the West Coast and led to the exclusion of Chinese immigrants (see Chinese exclusion).

AFS..

Re:When it suits them...

[WindBourne]

Well, more importantly, USA is moving rapidly to being an IP only country. This is easy to destroy. All china (and most of the world) has to do, is simply no longer accept the method patent. At that point, the brave new world that was started in the 80's will be destroyed.

That is because we will have no manufactuering, no infrastructure, and quite honestly, no education. The only thing that we will have is abstract IP (music, books, software, etc). China is methodically destroying the west and making sure that they are in a good position. Sadly, our leaders do not get it.

As to the overvalueing, most of software companies are overvalues. MS? what do they have that is worth what they are valued at? Their monopoly, which is slowly being taken apart by the marketplace. Google? Yeah, they are overvalued. But I think that they are making hay of what they have. Hopefully, they remain in the top.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

"... this is chinese doing it to chinese, which is for the most part, quite acceptable..."

Your point being injustice inflicted by indigenous peoples on their own is acceptable?

Winston Churchill said democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. We in the west have fostered democracy and the rule of law balanced by checks and balances. We in the west have tried, first through the League of Nations, and, now, through the United Nations to effect basic human rights throughout the world.

China is coming from behind fouling its environment at any cost to play power games with the rest of the world.

Mao, the great leader, loved to throw cocktail parties where everyone was ordered to dress in western garb, especially the made up ladies. China has shown no strong indication it will play nice with the rest of the world. BTW why is it we in the west are viewed as the place of "The Golden Mountain" a place, where to get to Chinese will sell their heritage and live savings? Seems strange untold number of Chinese will pay any price to escape to the countries you characterize as victimizing them. Why aren't we in the west living in piss and shit in locked containers to sneak into China? Are we missing something?

Re:When it suits them...

[ackthpt]

Your point being injustice inflicted by indigenous peoples on their own is acceptable?

To them, or anyone else, yes. Amazing isn't it? One of the major reasons the United States resisted respecting international criminal courts was for fear of political reprecussions of turning US citizens over to foreigners to try. The US is only too happy to try and in some cases (like a mexican man in New Mexico) execute foreign nationals.

Re:When it suits them...

[wuice]

China has a track record of honoring treaties and peace when they have larger goals in sight. Once they have achieved those goals... The West will see how much they really care what the rest of the world has to say and tell it what opinion it should share of the great PRC.

Just as the West (particularly the US) is showing the same thing to the rest of the world right now.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fool.

What the modern Politically Correct Idiots now call Native Americans are properly called Indians. The land and tribes they had before these united states committed its genocide are called Indian Nations.

Learn something before you open your filthy trap again.

Re:When it suits them...

[neves]

And what about Kioto, that Clinton signed and Bush "unsigned"?

Re:When it suits them...

[WindBourne]

And this has what to do with NAFTA? Kyoto was signed by clinton, but had to be ratified by the senate and signed by the president of the time, which it was not.

I am absolutely no fan of GWB, but it is always better to call him on things that he has screwed up. There are plenty of them (deficit, lies, druggie, false wars, general incompetence, hiding of evidence, etc), so there is no need to hit him on things that he did not do (assuming that you are implying that NAFTA was an issue). As far as Kyoto goes, well, in abother 2.5 years, we will have a different pres (presumably, that is). At that time, there should be plenty of evidence to support that we have issues with global warming. In fact, I expect a piece of that evidence to slam into his home state next week-end. At the next election, hopefully, ppl will be talking about the need for nuke and alternative energy.

Re:When it suits them...

[wingsofchai]

the signature on a treaty is no stronger than the signing arm.

What should be said is that the signature's strength is inversely proportional to the strength of the signing arm.

If the signing arm is strong, then they know they can break the treaty, so the treaty is weak...

Re:When it suits them...

[Galvatron]

But with the looming US debt owed to China, how long before they say, "No, Yankee, we don't feel like it. What are you going to do about it" and grin the grin of one who knows they hold the other by the short hairs?

If China chooses to violate US IP, the US could just as easily choose not to repay its debt, changing trillions of bonds into worthless paper. I seriously doubt the US ever WOULD do that, because it would make it very hard to get new loans in the future, but China hardly has the US "by the short hairs" by virtue of being owed a lot of money.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir, are an idiot, good day to you and your alarmist ass munching friends.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

China *cares* about the US, but the EU is a far larger and more important trading partner for them. Shit, Japan is even a bigger trading partner for them than the US. Sorry to break this to you but the the EU is now the richest market on the planet, not the US, or perhaps you haven't noticed that the US dollar isn't worth the paper that it's printed on internationally anymore.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

And you are the typical republican who rather than holding an intelligent discussion will simply do ad Homium(sp) attacks. One of the issues that I have seen with republicans is that they love to ignore the future issues; monsterous deficits, global warming, dependency on imported oil/gas, etc..

Re:When it suits them...

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

"Falun Gong, get it on"

"Falun Gong has got it going on,
It's all I want and I've waited for so long,
Communism, can't you see you're not the religion for me,
I know it might be wrong but I'm not listening to the Chinese government..."

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have spent quite a lot of time in China and I can say from experience, within China all copyrights are broke all the time and no-one cares one bit about it. Not that they would have any reason to either.

I do enjoy the fact that it is possible to go pick up DVD's and CD's at the local store that bear little difference to the real ones (not that you could find the "real ones" anywhere anyway) yet cost less then a dollar a piece. Kinda takes the fun out of p2p networks too.

Chinese corporate types always play lip serivice to copyright holders, but somehow there is no sincerity there. I hope they keep up the good work.

Re:When it suits them...

[WidescreenFreak]

There are tons of proof that the earth is warming. I agree. However, there is no irrefutable proof that it's a man-made occurrence, not a natural occurrence. A few thousand years of history and some ice cores do not definitively prove man's cause of any atmospheric anomalies. This is particularly true when compared to 2.5 billion years of environmental swings, including atmospheric compositions of such toxicity that there was no chance of life at the time.

Now, that's not to say that we're not causing an impact. I'm just saying that even though we do have issues of global warming, there is no proof that we're the cause.

That said, I fully agree that just because there is no proof doesn't mean that we shouldn't reduce our emissions. But Kyoto seemed to be nothing more than a global protocol to find a way to attack America politically and economically. The exclusion of China and, if I recall correctly, India as well as other developing countries was inexcusable.

It's about time that people started telling the environmentalists and "NIMBY" supporters that their anti-nuclear (because of what could happen), anti-hydro (because it would cause disruption to fish), and anti-wind farm activities (because it would ruin the view of the mountainside) are what are continuing to perpetuate our dependency on fossil fuels.

Re:When it suits them...

[WindBourne]

Personally, I doubt that Kyoto was an attack on us. But, no doubt about it, the exclusion of China and India was ridiculus. I think their thought was that it was better to get the single largest polluter (us) to control our output. The nice thing about Kyoto is that it is causing a number of countries to explore how to generate clean energy (like there is such a thing).

Now, as to environmentalists causing ALL the issues, well that is simply not so. After all, the best place to locate national storage of spent nuke was determined to be in west texas. When GWB got passed the choice, he chose Nevada (2'nd or even 3'rd best). In addition, many of your well to do republicans fight the idea of any of these forms of power would ever be in their back yard (or even front). But to those that fight all the alternatives and nukes, they are ridiculus. There is now way that america will cut back energy useage. We just need to change how it is generated.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to laugh when I read garbage like that. First of all, the "EU" is not a country. I have been to several european countries and if any of you living there think you have anything at all on the US, you are quite sadly mistaken. Objectively speaking, the US is mostly quite nice, whereas, Europe mostly sucks.

Re:When it suits them...

[LocoMan]

but IIRC the name Indians isn't really correct either, but they were called like that because Christophes Columbus though he had arrived at India (which was his original plan except that he didn't count of America being in the middle between Spain and India).

However, since I'm from Venezuela, my knowledge of US history is limited to what I've seen on looney tunes, but I do remember talking about that in high school about that regarding the native venezuelans (that are sometimes called indios).

Re:When it suits them...

[brazenmisfit]

What you seem to miss is that China is communist they don't need any trading partners as long as they have sufficient quantities of natural resources to meet their peoples needs. People in china don't generate and horde wealth to the same extent that capitalist societies do, they recieve enough from the government to maintain a standard of living no more no less, thus all goods and services used and produced in China are at cost, profit is irrelevant in China.

The only reason that China is playing the international money game is to source that natural resources that they lack. The chinese manufacturing sector already exceeds that of the rest of the world in terms of cost and production. America is useful to China in that china can dump their extremely cheap products on Americans and then use that money to acquire the natural resources that they lack from other nations.

America already imports far more than it exports and as the cost of importing increases due to increasing buying competition from China, india, et al, American's will purchase less manufactured goods from China as they struggle to meet their basic needs. Once this happens America will be worthless to China and china will dump those bonds.

The increasing move towards an IP economy will only hasten this. Other countries will only continue to pay the high cost of American IP as long as it benefits them. Once it no longer does, or the price becomes too high, other countries will invalidate American IP in their countries and allow anyone to use American patents and research to produce goods royalty free.

Re:When it suits them...

[brazenmisfit]

Upon rereading my post I feel that my profit is irrelevant comment may be ambiguous. What I mean is that because they government already owns everything there is no more that they can own, the only thing that it needs is the natural resources to continue production, thus providing anything that they could ever want or have.

Re:When it suits them...

[hedleyroos]

This is a genuine question, not a troll.

How does not being an IP country translate into no education? Did the US not have an education system long before it moved into an "IP only country" as you put it?

Re:When it suits them...

[JohnFluxx]

Go jump off a cliff. There's no irrefutable proof that you won't fall either.

Sometimes you have to act and do things without total proof.

Re:When it suits them...

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

China is methodically destroying the west and making sure that they are in a good position.

The west ain't just America, baby.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

Education appears to be tied to classes. That is the middle and upper classes value education highly. The poor and very poor tend to view education as an extra rather than a nessecity. A number of western countries are moving economically downward as they move manufactuering to the east and replace it with nothing. That is destroying middle class jobs (where the bulk of taxes are paid). Right now, in America (in general, in the west including Europe), we need to move towards automated manufactuering. Yeah, that will take jobs. But it will also enable a society to increase its wealth and focus on doing new things. A good example is that back in the 40's-70's, America did some great things (and during the 1800's-early 1900's, Western Europe was doing the same), such as Kennedies NASA. Since the 70's, NASA manned has been turned into a jobs creation (while NASA science has moved onwards).

Re:When it suits them...

[WidescreenFreak]

Oh, that's a really mature response. "Gravity" is well-proven and quite irrefutable. And I could have sworn that I said that just because there is no proof doesn't mean that we shouldn't cut down on emmissions.

It's clear that you like being selective in what you read anyway, so there's no real use in continuing your immature rant.

Re:When it suits them...

[JohnFluxx]

The theory of gravity isn't proven at all. You can't prove anything, you can only disprove.

The "intelligent falling" theory is a logically valid theory, and holds up against the evidence. It might be "God" that pushes things down when you let go of them. We cannot prove that if you personally jumped off that cliff, on that particular day and time, that you would fall.
All we can do is generalise from past experiments.

Re:When it suits them...

[Anonymous Coward]

But with the looming US debt owed to China, how long before they say, "No, Yankee, we don't feel like it. What are you going to do about it" and grin the grin of one who knows they hold the other by the short hairs?

Wrong. There's an old saying in banking. "When you owe the bank $1 million, you have a problem. When you owe the bank $1 billion, THE BANK has a problem." Think about that.

We could always say, "Screw you. We aren't paying. And no more selling cheap shit to Wal-Mart. What are YOU going to do about it?"

Re:When it suits them...

[WindBourne]

That is fair. But I would argue that even Europe is in a state of "overall" decline. Look at the job closing that have been coming throughout Europe as of late. In addition, I think that we are going to see more coming in the near future.

Re:When it suits them...

[iminplaya]

Well, more importantly, USA is moving rapidly to being an IP only country.

The arms market and contraband will keep them afloat. That's where the real money is. It's ten times bigger than the entertainment industry.

Re:When it suits them...

[Grishnakh]

I'm not so sure of this. Europe has long had problems caused by being divided into lots of small countries with different currencies, customs, etc. Now that they've united economically into the EU with a common currency, a lot of that inefficiency is gone, and as a block they have a lot more economic power to wield against the rest of the world. Notice how well the Euro is doing against the Dollar.

Furthermore, Europe still makes stuff, and usually high-value stuff, which is exported: nice cars, foods, etc. Look at all the cool stuff made in Switzerland (though this isn't actually part of the EU). I don't think Europe has totally dumped manufacturing the way America has--whereas America generally only manufactures stuff to be consumed within America, Europe makes a fair amount of stuff which is exported. (How many German cars do you see driving around America? How many American cars do you see driving around Europe?)

Lastly, Europeans still seem to value education, unlike Americans (heck, I'm starting to question the value of education now that I'm older and I see that it doesn't get you very far in American society).

With their economic unity and education, and governments with a socialist bent that have long-term views, Europe can set itself up to be the high-value science and technology manufacturing center of the world, where advanced scientific research can be carried out, and where extremely high-value products can be designed, engineered, and manufactured. They'll leave the ultra-cheap, high-volume stuff to China and concentrate on the high-value, low-volume stuff.

America, with poorly educated citizens, a government and corporations that don't care much about the long term or society, and a high cost of living, will suffer a collapsed economy due to lack of exportable products and consequent poor currency valuation.

Re:When it suits them...

[Jherek Carnelian]

The EU is not a single country,and as for Japan, being a larger trading partner than the US, you are just wrong.

Re:When it suits them...

[Jherek Carnelian]

What you seem to miss is that China is communist

You need to be reeducated. China is communist in name only and has been for decades now. What they are today is the closest thing to Mussolini's fascist state as has ever been realized. I suspect you will want to read up on the real definition of fascism in order to understand the distinction.

Text of the Suit (in case of Slashdotting)

[Shadow Wrought]

Avast ye scurvy scaliwags, it be the plank for ye! Arr!

Re:Text of the Suit (in case of Slashdotting)

[Greatmoose]

Arrr, tis a pity that yon currs know nothing of "talk like a pirate day". Arrr.

Re:Text of the Suit (in case of Slashdotting)

[TheOtherAgentM]

Damn Chinese pirates! Wait, being Chinese born in America, I don't know certain things. Do Chinese pirates say "Alllllllll!"

Re:Text of the Suit (in case of Slashdotting)

[Anonymous Coward]

Visit Freekat to download whole movies, music albums, tv shows, and more. And it's fast. The fastest network on earth!

Visit www.freekat.com for more info!

Re:Text of the Suit (in case of Slashdotting)

[ackthpt]

Avast ye scurvy scaliwags, it be the plank for ye! Arr!

Avast! Music piracy in China? It must be Terry and the Pirates! Shiver me timbers!

Re:Text of the Suit (in case of Slashdotting)

[Jason Earl]

That's beautiful.

Re:Text of the Suit (in case of Slashdotting)

[Anonymous Coward]

The Chinese language has a distinction between the 'L' and 'R' sounds, you twinkie. It's the Japs that have that problem.

Darn.

[TheOtherAgentM]

Now they're going to have to stick to buying DVDs for a dollar on the streets.

Re:Darn.

[winkydink]

You paid the round-eye price!!!???

Re:Darn.

[superyanthrax]

The DVDs on the street almost certainly don't work. (Trust me, I've tried to buy many of them). There are stores where you can buy them for cheap, and the quality is more reliable, although you can't be sure.

Re:Darn.

[ChocoBean]

street?

anyway i don't get them off the street cuz they look less "respectable" and "reliable" than stores in a dark corner of a "mall" opposite of the street of a bigger "mall" where you pay first and claim your CDs fresh off the grill 15 minutes later. Hmmm

and they're not a dollar, *scoffs* they're like, 5 dollars.*shrugs*for newer stuff you can't wait for the BT to finish at home anyway.

Re:Darn.

[gauauu]

Don't work? Yeah they do. I watch them all the time. Although, it's true that the quality is lower. On US DVD players, about 1/3 of them won't play without a few glitches. On chinese dvd players, they play with no problems. Don't know what it is, but Chinese DVD players can play a lot of crap that US ones don't.

You do tend to quickly learn which vendors have better quality ones. The guy downstairs from my office has really crappy ones. But if I walk 2 blocks from my apartment, we've had a really high success rate with a guy there. And his are only 5 RMB (about 75 cents).

The funniest is outside of wal-mart, there's always a few guys with stands selling them. Every few months, when the US managers come by to see the local store, wal-mart manages to drive the street vendors off, but it only takes a week or so for them to come back.

Re:Darn.

[dwater]

I think we're referred to as 'big noses' - never heard 'round eyes' before.

Re:Darn.

[dwater]

they are 8rmb on the streets of BJ.

10rmb from a store per DVD5 and 20rmb for a DVD9.

Re:Darn.

[dwater]

yeah. second that on the 5rmb ones working (though they've been 8rmb for me, but I'm crap at bartering). also the ones on the streets are DVD5, and so they will often end prematurely, or not have extras/subtitles/etc.

like you say, it's somewhat hit-and-miss.

also, very very true about the DVD players. I have a region-free one I bought in the US (at considerable expense) because I have a lot of UK stuff. it often fails to play stuff that a Chinese one (much! cheaper) plays just fine.

Re:Darn.

[iminplaya]

And now you know who's really behind these lawsuits.

Re:Darn.

[ChocoBean]

D: I'm getting ripped off! I demand my money back!

that , or, well, I download patiently like everyone else.

Laws not lax

[drfuchs]

Their copyright laws aren't lax, but their enforcement is.

Re:Laws not lax

[ackthpt]

Their copyright laws aren't lax, but their enforcement is.

Their enforcement is no more, nor less than the government wants. Just enough to show some progress to appease business, but not enough to give them all they want, which leaves a bargaining chip. "What will you offer to me for this bargaining chip?"

This government isn't stupid and are well versed in getting what they want. It seems the west, the USA in particular, is constantly on the back foot when negotiating.

Is this another

[varmittang]

Sue the person who finds the links, not the person hosting the files? Like the Perfect 10 vs. Google for finding pictures on none Perfect 10 websites.

Re:Is this another

[TubeSteak]

http://www.google.com/search?q="index+of"+mp3+nfo"
Directories with mp3's in them
The "nfo" is to make sure its a group release

Re:Is this another

[Anonymous Coward]

you don't sue the person who finds the link(s) on a search engine, you sue who's behind the url the links point to.

i think the entire liability for (illegal / copyrighted) content made available online should fall ONLY on the person/entity that is making it available (the uploader, web site owner, poster, etc), and NOT with anyone who accesses said content. because: the person making it available should most certainly know whether it is legal to make available or publish (they shouldn't be doing it if they don't know), but the end users, the regular joes, may not always be able to determine the legal status of every piece of content they run across.

suing a search engine because you can find something illegal on it, but it's NOT hosted there isn't any different than suing ford because someone robbed a bank and used a mustang as a getaway car; or the phone company because the robbers looked up "banks" in the yellow pages.

at the rate the riaa/mpaa is going, it won't be long before they sue the phone companies or backbone providers (because illegal content could *potentially* be transmitted across their lines), or hard drive makers (because illegal content could *potentially* be stored on them)....

sheesh.

i sure miss the good ol' days.

Music like information wants to be free.

[BrentRJones]

Seem like there will always be a way to copy digital music and give it freely to others. How is it possible to stop the practice? Eventually those who make a living from music with be as rich as poets.

Re:Music like information wants to be free.

[flyingsquid]

Seem like there will always be a way to copy digital music and give it freely to others.

Wait, there's this thing called Baidu that lets you copy music and give it away for FREE? DAMN, thanks for bringing this to my attention, Giant Music Corporations!

Re:Music like information wants to be free.

[soupdevil]

Actors are the only professionals with average annual wages lower than musicians. Writers fare slightly better, though poets are not broken out of those statistics.

Re:Music like information wants to be free.

[Anonymous Coward]

seems a little slow but once you get used to the ???? all over the pages it
seems effective even if your not chinese ;)

Great.

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to China.

Where you can walk down the street and buy hundreds of western media, IP, software and music products from corner pirate bootleggers, and nobody bats an eyelash.

But if you want to start a search engine that might help people find resources online, well, that won't be stood for. People might use that to "pirate" things.

This perfectly encapsulates the spirit of modern China: The capitalistic freedoms to lie, cheat and steal, but not the humanist freedoms to speak, organize and share information.

Re:Great.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. And look at how well it's working for them. No matter what kind of horrible things they do to their own people, no matter what kind of nuclear and traditional arms they might be building, what does the U.S. have to say about it? Very little. In fact it would seem that the U.S. is more concerned politically with software piracy than with the threat of attack, oddly enough...at least in public. But they're clearly doing a song-and-dance act for the Chinese government, because they know full well that they need access to the markets being created there.

In the U.S. it's the exact opposite -- protection against piracy of all forms going way up, protection of one's rights and freedoms being continually trampled on and whittled away by the Bush administration. I still hear stories of tourists from the U.S. wearing Canadian flag pins in foreign countries (particularly the Middle East) when they go to visit, incidentally.

They've got the power not to care about U.S. law, essentially -- what country wouldn't want that kind of power?

Re:Great.

[farble1670]

the difference is that the laws broken in streets of china's cities, for the most part, stay in china. if you buy a pirated DVD, there is not so great a chance that you will bring it to other countries. if you advertise copyrighted material on the web, anyone from all over the world can download that same DVD.

yes i am sure some of the illegally duplicated western media makes it to other countries, but at not nearly the rate that it can be distributed over the internet.

Re:Great.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure the Baidu decision is just a way of saving face and shutting up elements in the US that protest China's IP enforcement. China still allows lots of sites to operate that facilitate p2p... Secret Cinema (http://www.secret-cinema.com/ is located in China, and is even registered as a BT site with the government there.

Re:Great.

[konungursvia]

Actually, lying, cheating and stealing *is* a significant part of capitalism. Worldcom, Tyco, the Savings and Loans scandals, you name it, these are just the tip of the iceberg.

But you're right that China is far worse for hypocrisy than we are, especially in the areas of a) the environment and b) intellectual property. I lived there for four years, and there is no concept of right and wrong there in most people's eyes, according to my perceptions. Just success and failure, and if you succeed, it doesn't matter if you found it, earned it, invented it, stole it, or won it, they see them all as the same thing: the Great Face of wealth. So if anyone thinks that what happens to Baidu after this news actually matters, they are naive. There are hundreds of sites in China where you can download all songs, current movies (usually 2 weeks before they come out in the States) and whatever else you want.

The US however is getting a lot more like China every year, particularly since the current Bush administration began. Big business buys the legislation it wants, including a complete backpedalling on the environment, drug approvals, suppression of information on herbal remedies, the Iraq war.... you name it.

I liken capitalism to the Olympics -- same competition, same rewards for cheating. The problem is, the US is no longer the good guy -- they are the ones refusing to crack down on steroids, and the ones whose economy is totally doped. Lack of medical care and other employee benefits, lack of environmental restraints, lack of respect for international agreements, lack of respect of NAFTA with my country (Canada), hypocrisy on dumping and international competition... Ronald Reagan once said, "America can outcompete anyone in the world, on a level playing field." If this was ever true, it is no longer the case. Europe and Canada have the only reasonably well-balanced versions of capitalism, and the US is the bully who always cheats. Too bad.

The King is Dead, Long Live the King.

Places with lax copyright laws

[cjkinniburgh]

If you have ever been to Malaysia, Russia, or Thailand, or any of the other main locations in which there are extremely lax copyright laws, you will agree with me when I say that this will change nothing. There may be a president set, after which we will see a stronger law, which may be enforced once or twice, like the 100 bat fine placed on anyone caught selling illegal videos and music at the PanTib center in Bangkok, but after the initial constrictions, I think that life will go on for those chinese downloaded. To you guys: It may take a while for the party to get going again, but dont put down your collar just yet, threes still a lot more sex drugs and alcohol to be had.

Avast Mateys!!!

[Eberlin]

There be no treasure here, matey! Arrrr. If tis pirates they seek, tis pirates they find in these high seas. Arrrr.

The land lubbers be afterrr us for piracy, but I swear on my right eyepatch that we be faring better than the fate of walking the plank. Arrrrr.

Baidu be giving treasure maps to this here loot and booty (points with hook hand) but for all the enterprising yellowbeards, we have ways to bury our pirate gold. Arrrr.

"Old pirates, yes, they rob i;
Sold I to the merchant ships,
Minutes after they took i
From the bottomless pit."

    -- Redemption Song (Bob Marley)

Re:Avast Mateys!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

With all these pirates appearing the world is going to get mighty cold soon.

Re:Avast Mateys!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

ARRRR!!!

I know there's no need to yell, but it's near the end of the work day and I needed a pirate post before day's end.

Google

[mysqlrocks]

"From the copyright point of view, we think differently than the music companies. Baidu is just a platform for music search," Liang said.

Why aren't they suing Google as well? Google makes it possible to find copyrighted material? Of course one could use a search engine to find the people who are providing illegal copies and sue them.

Re:Google

[tepples]

Major record labels and movie studios already do send DMCA takedown notices to Google.

Lax Laws?

[Ahnteis]

Seems rather subjective to me. I mean, granted -- I'm no expert on China's copyright laws (but I can pretend if you'd like since this IS /.) but are their laws really lax or is the submitter just so used to his own laws that they SEEM lax. Personally, I find much of US copyright law overly restrictive and biased toward corporations.

Additionally, I don't know if laws can even be lax. Seems like it's the enforcement that should be called lax rather then the law. After all, the laws DEFINE what's legal. Perhaps lenient would be a better word?

Re:Lax Laws?

[superyanthrax]

The copyright laws themselves are about the same in China as they are everywhere. But enforcement is EXTREMELY lax. Every so often in the news they'll report that a big piracy ring has been busted, but in general piracy is still rampant. Remember that Windows 98 came out in China before it did in the USA?

Look around in the streets of Beijing. You'll see DVDs and VCDs for dirt cheap prices of say 3 RMB (8 RMB = 1 USD). Of course, many of those many not be real, but that's another story. You can walk into a store, and you'll see movies that are still in movie theaters, already in DVD form selling for say 15 RMB, which is about $1.87. You're not going to tell me that the **AA approves of that b/c selling a legal DVD for $1.87 would be preposterous.

Re:Lax Laws?

[fliptout]

After living in china, I've come to the conclusion that any media company that wants to profit with sales of legitimate media simply needs to reduce their profit margin. People in the street are not going to spend 60 or 70 yuan for a dvd.

Why do you want to stop the practice?

[hackwrench]

And who wants to make a living from music anyways?

Google Music Search

[Valiss]

I always wondered when I added 'filetype:mp3' to my search why Google yielded zero results. Is this a copyright thing?

Re:Google Music Search

[Maxo-Texas]

Arrrr, not at all me hardy.

Call me a lubber, but ye're searchin for the treasure with the wrong map.

Ye just needs to type in "Music Torrents" or "Music P2P" or "Music IRC Channel". Ye'll find the hidden treasure if ye seek it the right way!

Ho Ho Ho and a bottle of rum.. 6 mp3's in a dead man's stick!

Re:Google Music Search

[/dev/trash]

No. It's a technical thing. Google and all their PhDs haven't figured out how to implement that feature yet.

Re:Google Music Search

[uacheesehead]

I don't get it. If you do such a search for txt files, you get txt files. But if you do it for mp3 files, you get.. nothing, or next to nothing - depending on what keywords you use. Don't they just filter for .mp3 extensions in filenames? Or so I'd think..

Re:Google Music Search

[serialdogma]

Or is it non-text files it filters, after all its pagerank system only really cares about text and html.

Re:Google Music Search

[cyberformer]

Mostly. But there's also less data that can be searched without some very sophisticated AI: Just a file name and (possibly) some metadata or inbound links.

Didn't stop them doing image search, of course, but that index doesn't seems to have been updated for about a year.

Re:Google Music Search

[EternityInterface]

It's just filetypes they have fully indexed (though they could index the id3 / metadata).

Re:Google Music Search

[NurseMaximum]

If you do a search for txt files, google searches inside the txt files it finds on the internet.

Similarly for PDF, DOC and whatever others it finds and looks inside (look at the Advanced Search for a little list).

Obviously it doesn't scan and index mp3s - if anything you must search for the name to appear on a page or in a text file (or PDF, DOC etc).

At least that's my guess.

Lax?

[sambo_shacklock]

known for its lax copyright laws?

Don't you mean more sensible copyright laws?

Re:LAX?

[Anonymous Coward]

yea but note WHO are they executing?

Re:LAX?

[moro_666]

actually the laws itself arent lax ... the only thing that is lax is protecting the foreign financial interests .. :)

C -> China
L -> Lawyers of copyright satans.

L: Hi C , we have a problem...
C: So do we , but we dont see us bothering you with it, do you ?
L: Anyway. there is site of yours that exchanges our copyrighted music and we want to see them in court.
C: Are you sure ?
L: Ofcourse i'm sure, i flied 10 000 miles with a plane to tell it to you.
C: We have to do some research on the issue and see if anything you claim over our good nation here is true.
L: Research ? We've got the proof right here, these and those dudes are responsible for it. Arrest Lee Ya and Liu Pao!
C: You cant expect a billion numbered nation to be uncapable of doing it's own research and investigation on the matter.
L: Well ... That was not what i meant.
C: But that's what it sounded like, we will let investigate it and report back to you, see you soon.
L: So i have to fly back now with no news whatsoever ?
C: Yes.

L: Hey C, any news on the copyright matter ?
C: What copyright ?
L: The music stuff you know ...
C: Erm ... ah that one ... well ... we're investigating it.
L: Has there been any progress what so ever ?
C: We cant tell you this sensible information, sorry.
L: Cant tell me ? What the $#%^# , i was the one that requested this investigation in the first place.
C: Our laws are very strict and we cant tell you, we will let you know when our investigation is over.
L: And when do you assume this will be ?
C: In about 2 years, 3 years tops ... maybe even more but we definetly dont want to go over 5 years.
L: , we are from america, you have to respect our power.
C: The power of 300 million people vs 1 billion people ? You americans have always been funny :) CiaoBambino, talk to you "soon"

this was just an intro to what will go down. the real filesharing lords will get away, maybe some people will get arrested and killed (but they actually have political crimes against communism and havent even seen a damn pc in their life)

so there you go ...

Wouldn't it be wonderful if...

[gilgongo]

From TFA: "...the goal was to 'cooperate and make a platform for legal music downloads.'"

So imagine if instead of doing what we all assume they're probably going to do (cave in to Sony, BMG et al), China turns round and says "Protect the artists? Sure! We'll do that - but only if you help us build a network that passes 100% of the purchase price of each MP3 directly to the artists that wrote or performed the tracks."

A few yuan multiplied by a few billion makes...?

Re:Wouldn't it be wonderful if...

[John Hurliman]

So why are sound engineers, recording studios, advertising agencies and music labels that are assuming risk by covering these costs in advance (to name a tiny fraction of the people involved in producing any music) no longer entitled to compensation?

Re:Wouldn't it be wonderful if...

[uacheesehead]

100% doesn't make any sense.. but certainly a larger percentage would be sensible. The RIAA is greedy and will take what it can at the expense of everyone.

Re:Wouldn't it be wonderful if...

[mOdQuArK!]

If the artists got all of the money that they are entitled from the sale of their creative works, then they would be able to afford to pay all those entities for services rendered - instead of the labels taking what they want, and letting the artists try and pay everyone else with whatever's left over (if the label's "creative accounting" doesn't arrange for there to be nothing left over).

Re:Wouldn't it be wonderful if...

[Jarlsberg]

Kneel before your teenage singer-songwriter overlord!

Re:Wouldn't it be wonderful if...

[gilgongo]

Because if the artists got all the money that they are entitled from the sale of their works, then artists would pay sound engineers, recording studios, advertising agencies and music labels (if they wanted them) as services. This is how most other industries work. If I write software for a living, I employ a PR and marketing agency, and pay them from my (hopefully increased) sales.

Really, 100% is not such a silly idea when you have something called home recording equipment. Good music can still sound good if it's recorded in mono at 8KHz you know. All you need then is the Internet.

Human Rights

[Anonymous Coward]

But more importantly how will this lawsuit turn out in a place known for its lax copyright laws?

Regretfully, future trade interests may surpass human rights interests, and the Chinese government may just execute a couple of these downloading "criminals" to demonstrate how earnest it is in complying with international commercial law.

I don't understand. Someone please explain.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it illegal chinese music or English music?

Is Baidu abiding by robots.txt files?

What about Yahoo's audio search?
http://audio.search.yahoo.com/

Three questions looking for three answers. Thank you.

Re:I don't understand. Someone please explain.

[liangzai]

User-agent: Baiduspider
Disallow: /m

mp3.baidu.com is foremost used for searching Chinese music, and it is *the* choice for those of us who like Chen Huilin and other Chinese artists. Many Chinese artists, particularly in Honggong and Taiwan, are signed with Western record companies.

Western artists, with a few exceptions, are not that very popular in China. Thus it is not at all like the Chinese are stealing Western stuff, but rather stealing their own shit, and this affects Western as well as Chinese record companies.

In China, very few people actually buy legal CDs. Most people either download mp3 versions or buy a pirated CD/DVD in the many stores along the streets; legal CDs can sometimes be bought in department stores, but in actuality this is rare. I know this since I have been looking like mad for legal copies of Wang Fei's albums, which I had to order online to get hold of.

The way Chinese artists make money is by concerts, where seats are sold for 80 yuan (wayyyyy up arena seats) to 2500 yuan (premium seat front stage), with most on-field tickets sold for 800 yuan and up. This is way more expensive than in the West.

To me it seems like people have given up record sales in favor of other means of making the money. This is actually a sound mentality.

LAX?

[/dev/trash]

I'd hardly call a death sentence, lax.

Sounds like the work of....

[Ingolfke]

pirates, aye matey?

downloading mp3 from websites.

[Anonymous Coward]

hmm I thought that downloading mp3s from websites died when napster arrived.

Busted for sharing emule

[biraneto2]

The music companies allege Baidu has made it easy for users to download illegal copies of their songs via its MP3 search engine What kind of law is that? So... how can this be considered illegal? If I tell you that if you connect to E-mule you can download the same MP3 am I commiting a crime?

Re:Busted for sharing emule

[Red Flayer]

"If I tell you that if you connect to E-mule you can download the same MP3 am I commiting a crime? "

If it's a copyrighted MP3, then yes, yes you are.

Is it just? I don't think so -- but I don't write the laws.

In prison, you'll be 'connecting' to more than E-mule.

Re:Busted for sharing emule

[uacheesehead]

How is sharing a source of where to illegal download files a crime? If it is, then all major news outlets are just as guilty, because they regularly report on mp3 filesharing via various programs and networks.

Re:Busted for sharing emule

[Red Flayer]

The distinction is between revealing a method and promoting its use. In the example, someone is telling someone where they can go to illegally download a copy of a copyrighted item. There is a specific reference to an illegal transaction.

It doesn't make sense for it to be illegal -- but the law is the law.

Couldn't make the stock trading any weirder...

[WoTG]

I decided to take a peak at how this affected the Baidu (BIDU on Nasdaq) stock. (It didn't, this lawsuite seems to have happened after hours, so I'll have to wait for tomorrow to see any real affects.)

However, I was shocked to see the price chart of the stock for last week, on Yahoo finance. What the heck is that? Up 50% then down to where it started within three days? It reminds me of the summer of 2000...

Copyright Laws

[IanBevan]

My understanding, from dealing with people in New Zealand Trade and Enterprise (a government department here), is that the copyright laws in China are in fact fine, it's their enforcement that needs attention.

Bargaining tactic

[Red Flayer]

FTA:"He [Liang Dong, VP of Marketing -- Baidu] was reported to have met several music company executives Wednesday to discuss copyright issues, the Standard cited a source as saying, adding the goal was to "cooperate and make a platform for legal music downloads."
Liang said the discussions were "positive.""

This is the recording industry leaning on Baidu to come to terms with them. I'll bet if Baidu puts methods of discouraging illegal filesharing in place, and encourages legal (read: revenue-producing) downloads, the lawsuits will be dropped or settled out of court for a pittance.

Same MO as the earlier article today about the RIAA possible dropping huge settlement demands against Grokster et al.

Re:Bargaining tactic

[Anonymous Coward]

are you so sure about that? One thing that makes baidu so popular is that it's user base (read, mostly kids in their teens) like being able to find anything, even (perhaps especially) pirated stuffs. Nix that -- and the chinese kids will simply move on to the next big thing. I dont think baidu has enough of an establishment and loyal user base to start becoming a google. They're still a nitche player.

Remember this is china. It's more likely that Baidu will bribe the right gov't official and this lawsuit will be dropped. (what, you think that dosent happen? dream on.)

Re:Bargaining tactic

[Red Flayer]

Or, the companies suing could bribe an official to make sure it doesn't get dropped. Who do you think has more cash available??? Think it's Baidu? Dream on...

article in the Standard

[jdunlevy]

(mentioned in TFA as their source): online here.

Pirate-speak

[Parity]

That's 'hearty' as in 'a hearty fellow'.

On the high seas, it's assumed, of course, that -everyone- is hardy, else they'd have drowned already while leaning over the railing a bit too far when puking out their guts. But one greets one's fellows as 'me hearty', essentially complimenting them on their uncanny ability to remain in good spirits in the face of endless days of cold wind and salt water and fish stew yet again.

Please keep it straight, or they'll all know you for land-lubber and you'll be walking the plank in no time... if they don't keelhaul you instead.

No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault...

[Chordonblue]

I mean, why not? Everything else is: Hurricanes, wars, drugs, Gore's loss, etc.

If it's G.W.'s fault that the rest of the world hates us, then what the RIAA and other scumbag agencies do overseas in the 'name of the artist they represent', surely isn't helping much.

So when I hear that the U.S. is no different than China in this respect, I have to laugh. If China really cared about intellectual property as much as they did about even MENTIONING democracy, those 'reeducation camps' would be way over occupancy by now.

Yeah, the U.S. and China are practically the same country... Funny though... When was the last time YOU were in a reeducation camp (public schooling aside, of course)?

International Talk Like a Pirate Day

[Anonymous Coward]

Arrgh! You're good to post on International Talk Like a Pirate Day. Be a right-good pirate, and keep up your plundering and gold-scavenging. Argh.....

Re:Care to provide some proof?

[sn0wghOst]

People who post to slashdot as AC with bullshit like this, suck as much as the corrupted US politicions. You just solidify this. 'nuff said.

Who is Sue Baidu?

[ignavus]

Who is Sue Baidu?

Why does she work for the Music Giants? Are they a baseball team?

And if she has got over music downloads, why haven't the rest of the RIAA got over them?

"Music Giants Sue Baidu Over Music Downloads." Well, she's a start. Now if only the rest of them catch on...

And in other news: Allies push bottles up Germans.

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[RandomPrecision]

Hurricanes? Try http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2 005/09/02/national/w142153D44.DTL or a similar story where he admits the faults in his administration in responding. Wars? I don't think I need to give a link, W had at least a little to do with a war or two in recent history. I don't know what you're referring to with the drugs, however. No one makes that claim. Gore's loss? Well, yeah, that would be largely because of W. W's fault that the rest of the world hates us? http://www.twf.org/News/Y2002/1109-Poll.html isn't scientific, but it shows some attitude about this in lieu of a scientific European poll that I can't currently find. The main point, however, is that it was said the US and China are similar in one particular aspect. All of your later sarcastic comments are invalid by that same virtue, although you apparently knew that the author only meant it in that one respect. Adherence to treaties, or lack thereof, does not mean that the US has re-education camps. No one is saying that the United States and China are "practically the same country".

And as for your name...

[Anonymous Coward]

That should be "parroty" not "parity".

Re:And as for your name...

[Maxo-Texas]

Arrr... So ye're Parroty Bit ye, eh?

The Intellectual Property Law of China

[westlake]

For English language primers on the intellectual property law of China look here: Ministry of Science and Technology: Laws and Regulations.

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[rainman_bc]

Hmmm... Do you think the US is any different than China?

Let's talk oppression:
Guantanamo Bay

They open a POW camp in Cuba, who hasn't signed the Geneva convention. How fitting isn't it?

And you Americans complain that the Chinese govt censors, but google does the same thing under the name of the DMCA. Give me a break.

Re:Care to provide some proof?

[Anonymous Coward]

Care to provide some proof? (Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 19, @06:50PM (#13599648)

How very appropriate.

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[bnenning]

Do you think the US is any different than China?

Yes. In many ways we're moving in the wrong direction, but we have quite a ways to go before we reach the level of the tyrants in Beijing.

And you Americans complain that the Chinese govt censors, but google does the same thing under the name of the DMCA.

No, that is not remotely close to the same thing. The DMCA sucks, but I can say that the DMCA sucks without being hauled away and shot by government stormtroopers.

lying, cheating, and stealing is not capitalism

[geekee]

"This perfectly encapsulates the spirit of modern China: The capitalistic freedoms to lie, cheat and steal, but not the humanist freedoms to speak, organize and share information."

Capitalism is not about lying, cheating, and stealing. These actions are against capitalism. Capitalism is about free, open, voluntary trade where each person understands exactly what they're getting in a transaction. Unfortunately, in real life, both buyers and sellers lie, cheat, and steal to make up for deficiencies and gain an unfair advantage.

Re:lying, cheating, and stealing is not capitalism

[Anonymous Coward]

Capitalism is not about lying, cheating, and stealing. ... Unfortunately, in real life

Or in other words, capitalism can talk the talk but cannot walk the walk.

Re:lying, cheating, and stealing is not capitalism

[Thing 1]

In other words, you're lying about what capitalism really is.

Capitalism (in fact, any interaction with humans) contains a plethora of lies. It's your job to wade through them and make a good trade, and be productive.

This is not much different from any other economic philosophy. Just, in capitalism, the rules are pretty much laid out from the get-go.

Probably a bad move...

[tktk]

for the music industry. All Baidu has to do is frame the lawsuit as a bunch of multinational companies trying to beat up a homegrown Chinese company, (if it is one).

Bam...instant grassroots support for Baidu. Or whatever the grassroot equivalent is in a communist state.

please....

[cruc]

The US Senate voted 100 to 0 against it for damed good reasons even that even the most vocal left Senators couldn't vote against. Clinton signed it but that signature carried no, I repeat no weight as agreements must be approved by congress (that old checks and balances thing). He knew this of course, but that didn't stop him from doing it anyway, with the obvious design to win brownie points with the greenies and leftists in other parts of the world. It worked for him too-you just proved it.

Re:please....

[geminidomino]

The US Senate voted 100 to 0 against it for damed good reasons even that even the most vocal left Senators couldn't vote against

Eh, the US Senate voted 100 to 0 for the RealID act too, even after a good number of them pointed out they had MANY good reasons for voting against it. Then they proved their integrity and voted FOR it so as not to give their political opponents leverage because it was hidden in the military spending bill.

There are many good reasons to argue against Kyoto. A unanimous senate vote sure ain't one of them.

Re:please....

[E8086]

"The US Senate voted 100 to 0 against it for damed good reasons even that even the most vocal left Senators couldn't vote against"

When it comes to international treates the President has as much power as the Queen of England. They all have to be approved by the Senate. Remember Wilson and the League of Nations and his 14pts at the end of WWI? The treaty wasn't approved by the Senate and we weren't offically at peace with Germany until 1921.

"the US Senate voted 100 to 0 for the RealID act too...because it was hidden in the military spending bill"

the in-line veto needs to make a come back, there are far too many pork barrel pet projects being sold off for votes. Even then I don't know if it would have been removed.

Interesting, the posting is under 'Your Rights Online', yet the comments seem mosr suited for 'Politics'.

Re:please....

[geminidomino]

Nothing I posted, much less what you quoted, was political. Just pointing out that the appeal to a unanimous Senate vote as a supporting argument means slightly less than a deed to the Brooklyn bridge.

Re:please....

[japhmi]

Just pointing out that the appeal to a unanimous Senate vote as a supporting argument means slightly less than a deed to the Brooklyn bridge.

But you compared the unanimous Senate vote againstthe Kyoto Treaty to the unanimous Senate vote for a spending bill that included something they don't like.

Voting for something knowing that it includes bad riders is not the same as voting against one particular thing.

Re:please....

[geminidomino]

Senate voting unanimously is not indicative of ANYTHING. That was my point.

What can these companies accomplish?

[beforewisdom]

Unless something has changed recently the Chinese government has no respect for intellectual property.

Do they really expect to successfully sue these people?

Chinese plan for revenge on the RIAA...

[GeneralEmergency]

...will be jumping up and down, all at the same time of course!

Oh yea, like you didn't see this one coming.

Hmmm....

[andreyw]

Something tells me the PRC is going to tell teh racketeers over at RIAA to go play with themselves...

Re:Hmmm....

[TractorBarry]

Not quite. In time honoured Chinese style they'll tell the RIAA that they are anxious to help them in this matter.

Then they'll carry on regardless.

Stop Global Warming - Pirate Music!

[JumperCable]

The proof => http://www.venganza.org

They have a billion people...

[rsilvergun]

and India too, what the heck do they need us for? Seriously, if they're exporting, what are they importing? High end machinery that takes billions to build, food and our entertainment I suppose. But how much longer will they need/want that?

Shows what you know...

[Chordonblue]

The guy who posted below you is convinced that we ARE the same country.

The sad thing is, he is totally representative of the Left now - The kooky Left that is currently running the Democratic party. Reality checked out of the Dems party years ago - all they seem to have now is hate. Hate for G.W., hate for anyone that in any way agrees with him. Hate, hate, hate...

Re:Shows what you know...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah, because the kooky Right, who's firmly in control of the Republican party, is all about peace, love, compassion, & unity.

I mean, just look at how much good they've done with the U.N. The pre-eminent platform for global unity on all issues being dismissed out of turn because they don't cater to all the petty bullshit that the kooky right wants to do.

You know what, Chordonblue, Americans aren't divided into two little factions. Just because the kooky Right wants to label everyone as either conservative or liberal, then kick-start faction wars to distract the masses from what's really happening, doesn't change the fact that the rest of us, people who aren't easily distracted by smoke & mirrors, people who see right through the machinations done purely for political gain done by Rove & his ilk, are the majority of this country. We are so disgusted with the levels the rest of you will stoop to that we just don't fscking care anymore.

You want to sling mud, try to paint everyone into two opposite corners, just go the fuck ahead. And when you finally push us too far your head will be the first put on a pike.

The revolution is coming. It gets closer every day. It will not be televised. But you'll get to see it. First hand.

Re:Shows what you know...

[Thing 1]

And dropping bombs on a country that hasn't attacked or threatened our "homeland" is ... love? At least China is violating treaties without killing people...

Re:Shows what you know...

[Chordonblue]

How does killing thousands and imprisoning more of their own people somehow equate with a potential threat?

You make no sense whatsoever!

Re:Shows what you know...

[Thing 1]

Threatening one's own people is very different from threatening other countries, which one does not have as direct control over.

Communism improved: now with less real commune

[cpu_fusion]

The only thing worse than a totalitarian communist country is a totalitarian communist country where the idea of music as a free, common good has gone out the window.

So now, in addition to encouraging the Chinese government to pimp out its poor so we can save a few shiny dimes at Walmart, we have the audacity to expect those same wage slaves to 'respect tha authoritah' of the corrupt US music industry?

Hello America, you can't bukkakke the world's poor and then wonder why you aren't seen as a bastion of freedom anymore. Wake up!

Setting precedents about presidents now are we?

[Anonymous Coward]

The word is precedent, from precede, to come before...

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[rainman_bc]

being hauled away and shot by government stormtroopers.

No, but rape and torture in Guantanmo Bay is okay right?

Recall McCarthy era, and the old Communist accusations has simply remanifested itself as Terrorist accusations instead.

Freedom in the US is fiction no doubt about that. (Not saying Canada is much better -> we have our own brand of stupidity here)

Re:GMAFB!

[rainman_bc]

We have one camp - ONE - filled with the scum of the earth and it has to be where it is because people like you (and your packs of lawyers) would be setting these bastards free once they hit our shores

Find me one transcript of one trial of any of these people.

Truth be told, y'all believe in due process when it suits you, but then you lock ppl up in Guantanamo Bay without trial.

You guys go wage war in the name of freedom, yet you ignore the notion of freedom at home. It's really pathetic IMO.

Thats why..

[danielk1982]

http://mp3.baidu.com/m?f=ms&tn=baidump3&ct=1342177 28&lf=&rn=&word=maroon+5

Re:GMAFB!

[jp10558]

I'm sorry, wanting to follow the constitution and bill of rights is going to "drag our country down... under the guise of political correctness"?

A desire for due process does not equal "etting these bastards free once they hit our shores. Free to commit more attocities, more murder in the name of their 'god'."

Well informed person

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice to see there are INFORMED Americans on Slashdot (I'm assuming you're american?! maybe?). Either way, it's a give and take relationship, we should learn to live in peace and harmony with everyone else. This can not happen if there is a "US" versus "THEM" mentality!

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[Anonymous Coward]

So you do not like the idea of placing war criminals in safe [to the criminals] jails.

I agree. The U.S. was way off base by moving such criminals to safe jales in Cuba. The U.S. should simply have turned them over to the Government of the country they invaded who would have promply tried them and despactched them to wherever right after Friday morning prayers.

Will say the few times I personally watched such executations on friday morning it was most interesting. First they duck walked the guest of honor out, then one guard stuck hin in the side with a small knifr which caused the kneck to extend at which point a second guard blade passed through. The head hit the ground still awake, the body jerked around still standing and blood spouted. The head was placed on a stick, stuck in the ground and the next guest was brought out to meet his friend. By the way this is not being made up and is not a joke. I was actuall there as a construction engineer and I actually watched such on several occasions in the early 60's.

Personally I think you need to leave Wander Land and find out what goes on in the rest of the world. Especially how loosing revolutionasists are treated by the winners be that Affrica, Europe, Asia, or South America. Sorry there has been no revoluition in North America, Australia, New Zealand in the last 50 years but I am willing to bet if there were one the response would not be much different. So you are right best turn such crininals over to the winners. Then ther would be little criticish from loco idits.

Baidu had video search, too

[Bushcat]

Posting way too late for anyone to actually read this, but c'est la guerre. Pre-IPO, baidu.com had video search which helped it increase market share pre-IPO. The button was removed before IPO, leaving just the MP3 button. Ergo, baidu.com knows what game it's playing.

In a separate action to that brought by EMI et al, a Beijing court has just ordered Baidu.com to pay RMB68,000 to Shanghai Busheng Music Cultural Media Company. Busheng had accused Baidu of allowing Internet users to use the Baidu search engine to find and download copyright-protected music. The court has also ordered Baidu to stop providing the download services to online users. Baidu says it plans to appeal the decision. See http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticleSearch.as px?storyID=221757+19-Sep-2005+RTRS&srch=baidu.

So perhaps the copyright laws will be enforced more strictly when it's locally-generated content that is being pirated.

Imperialist Running Dogs Abusing Chinese Company

[Anonymous Coward]

Mao Tse Tung said one thing about how power flows. It is well to remind Imperialist lackey RIAA that they are all talk and have no Army or Navy or Air Force or Space Force. In fact, Imperialist RIAA and MPAA is not safe from Chinese version of Soviet KGB Spetznatz assassination units. Let the R I A A come to China and see how far they get...even how many steps they can take from their airplane when they arrive. Who is going to enforce a court order outside of China on Chinese interests in foreign countries when those countries themselves have vital properties in China and debts to China and even family in China. This is true of the Imperialist Lackey RIAA and MPAA as well. Who is going to have the stones to enforce the order of a foreign judge or 'arbiter' on a Chinese company in China. Just how many army groups will it take to reach, say, Nanking. How may Americans will be willing to die by the millions for the enrichment of the RIAA or MPAA

WHAT?!?!

[Lord Kano]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that China is a piracy haven, but it's pretty damned close.

They can't stop real pirates from mass producing actual DVDs and CDs; why in the fuck would they think that they can stop casual pirates on the internet?

LK

Re:NO, I'm sorry...

[jp10558]

The point I'm making isn't to blindly let people go or not, but to follow the rules. There are many reasons there are rules the government has to follow.

Look, if someone is saying they will commit a crime, that can be brought before a judge. We have procedures in place now to deal with people we have arrested that we feel are too dangerous to let out on bail - namely, no bail.

But I cannot think of any good that can come from letting the government just hold anyone they like indefinately without charges or declaring them a POW.

If this is a war, then declare them POWs. There's already functions in place to deal with "enemy combatants" and has been for over a century.

What about innocent until proven guilty? You seem to be arguing for the government to tag people based on secret criteria, and by virtue of saying they are bad, get to ignore the constitution, geneva convention and anything else they want to ignore.

I think we've all seen how well unregulated police powers works out for a countries citizens in the past.

Re:GMAFB!

[SparcPlug]

I don't know how many Americans actually agree that GW should have the right to do this...

Terrific! Encore!

[Chordonblue]

PLEASE, more, MORE!

YOU paint yourself into that 'wack-job' corner with statements like this: "...we just don't fscking care anymore."

Yep. Just who America needs to run their country - mad dog libs ready to take a bite out of everything just to have their little way.

And don't get me started about the corrupt .org that is the U.N.! Maybe Bush doesn't like them much since they SCREWED us on so many occasions (like oil for food, N. Korean nukes, etc.) You like talking about LIES, the LIES of G.W. Well, why are you silent about the U.N.'s LIES, huh? Have a LITTLE integrity would you?

Well here's the deal Sparky, you don't own the media anymore - no more one sided bullshit. You'll have to compete for the truth from now on. You have everything else BUT Fox News (with a 65% plus news viewership now). Wow.. It can't be that you're not getting the message out - it MIGHT just be that your message SUCKS.

Kerry lost the last election - not because of the 'machinations' of Karl Rove (last I checked he wasn't running for office), but because Kerry brought NOTHING to the table. Referring people to his website on basic questions on Iraq or the economy, while geeky and great for Slashdotters, is not what most people will want to hear. If you can't sum up what you believe in a few sentences, than people doubt that you believe in anything!

In addition, you need to start acting like winners instead of sore losers. Mind you, that means you KNOW YOUR PLACE and stop acting like you have the majority voice all the time. You don't. Still though, every time a Gore or Dean opens his mouth, he brilliantly gives Rove everything he wants and more. To be honest - Rove can't control the fecal matter you folks spew, so you can only blame yourselves for your predicament.

You you're going to "put my head on a pike" then? VERY democratic of you! I guess the democracy only works when your side wins right? Do you know how many hours I used to sit in front of CNN and go, 'Son of a BITCH you guys SUCK!'? Nonetheless, I kept my civility, I chose to work within the system for a change. Whatever happened to non-partisanship? Oh right, Reps are supposed to be the 'good guys' and just lay down our necks while you sharpen the blade.

The biggest mistake you libs made was screwing the first Bush over with the 'no new taxes' thing. "Oh NOO, Mr. Bush, we won't make politcal hay over this! It's for the good of the country!' Yeah, TEN FUCKING MINUTES later you had Dems in a press conference out there screaming to the media about how Bush broke his promise. Well guess what? You live you learn. And as for you folks, you reap what you sow - that's in the Bible (not sure you'd know that).

That stunt FINALLY galvanized the Reps who, for the previous 30 or so years would usually take the high road and not retaliate or even defend themselves properly against you. Thanks to that brilliant move, you finally proved your party to be completely without morals or truthfulness. Stop blaming Rove for the gift you folks GAVE HIM!

Even the minorities are turning against you. After all, what the hell have you REALLY done for them? What? You think the Civil Rights bill was a Dem idea? Heh. Right. I'm sure Senator Byrd (former member of the KKK) was right behind that. The truth was, it was introduced my Reps and more Republicans voted for that bill, FAR more than Dems. You came to that party a little late also.

To my estimation, what the country is seeing now is the TRUE Left. Unfettered, unchecked, and out of fucking control.

Go get your pike you dumb ass, and I'll keep my 2nd amendment rights handy as well. And keep up the great posts! It helps remind people what you really stand for.

Re:Terrific! Encore!

[poofyhairguy82]

Just who America needs to run their country - mad dog libs ready to take a bite out of everything just to have their little way.

As a moderate, I prefer that to a party that gets its entire social positions from a single book ( Bible).

I voted for Bush in the past but I can't align myself with the Republicans anymore in the future. It has given up its core beliefs (less government, FISCAL FREAKING RESPONSIBILITY), and now panders to ignorant Bible-belt voters. Why create a decent domestic policy when people will vote for you just because your party takes a certain side in an issue that your party can't change because it was determined over a decade ago (abortion)? Why work for things like a balanced budget when people will vote for you just because of your stance on gay marriage (even though your party will knock down an anti-gay marriage amendment when it comes through the congress your party controls)? Why come up with a decent foreign policy when a lot of your base actually believes terrorists hate up for our "freedom," or worse, religion (yep, the huge economic disparity in the world has nothing to do with it). The Republicans were once the party of sense. Now thats not the case. Who cares about how you win as long as you do, right?

Even though at one point in my life the thought would have made me sick, I might vote for a Democrat next time around. I would rather be associated with the ignorance of Dean over the ignorance of Delay any day.

I agree, let's have 'rules'...

[Chordonblue]

But... The 'rules' have changed haven't they? I mean it's not like the 9/11 bastards showed up in uniforms toting weapons, right? Our laws were made in a time when war was more... Uh... Civilized - if that makes any sense. Maybe organized is a better description.

These people are enemy combatants and I believe the gov't has sufficient evidence to keep them how they like.

And the 'no bail' argument is hardly sufficient for me. Remember, we live in an age of trial lawyers who managed to free O.J. for God's sake! I'm sorry, I'd rather not trust my family's security to lawyers and judges looking to make a name for themselves.

I have an idea: Let's try and convince terrorists to 'follow the rules' from now on, and we'll do the same? Think that'll work?

Maybe we should just go with the other alternative and carpet bomb any SPECK of resistance. You know, the way war USED to be like - winners and losers.

Re:I agree, let's have 'rules'...

[brazenmisfit]

But... The 'rules' have changed haven't they? I mean it's not like the 9/11 bastards showed up in uniforms toting weapons, right? Our laws were made in a time when war was more... Uh... Civilized - if that makes any sense. Maybe organized is a better description.

I'm sure that the brits can say the same thing, its not like the americans showed up in uniform to fight the revolution. The american army was a bunch of farmers with no uniforms, who became militias. They were not civilized as far as the brits were concerned, nor did they follow the standard rules of engagement. What it comes down to is that you have to use whatever advantage you can gain to fight a vastly superior fighting force. I don't know why the uniform issue keeps coming up from you american's its like you don't even acknowledge your history. You won the war so got to set the tone, but I'm sure at the time the brits considered you some form of terrorists, and if they had won, I'm sure the annals of history would reflect that.

Re:I agree, let's have 'rules'...

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an idea: Let's try and convince terrorists to 'follow the rules' from now on, and we'll do the same? Think that'll work?

Guess what one of those "bastards" you talk about would respond. Exactly the same, just replacing the word terrorists with americans.

I feel with your. You seem so scared for your own life and family and that is why i forgive your harsh words, but what you do by saying them is to create a frustrated scared person just like you on the other side.

Set out an example. Don't become who you fight.

Re:I agree, let's have 'rules'...

[poofyhairguy82]

But... The 'rules' have changed haven't they?

Sure, because a bunch of knee-jerk congressmen changed them...

I mean it's not like the 9/11 bastards showed up in uniforms toting weapons, right?

And its not like the Oklahoma City Bombing was any different in regards to rules followed by "the enemy." Yet Timothy McVeigh had a fair trial. You will say "but 9/11 is different." Sure is, during 9/11 YOUR party was in power and you want to milk that for all its worth. An old fashioned power grab. Its not the worst thing ever, but stop pretending like its a noble thing.

Maybe we should just go with the other alternative and carpet bomb any SPECK of resistance. You know, the way war USED to be like - winners and losers.

How does it feel to be a dinosaur in the modern age?

Re:I agree, let's have 'rules'...

[Chordonblue]

The 'rules' I was referring to were the rules of engagement. You know, not purposely targeting civilians, that sort of thing? Is that 'dinosaur' thinking to you?

There WAS a difference in the OK bombing - McVeigh was a CITIZEN of the U.S. These jackoffs from Afghanistan and elsewhere aren't even a real army. They are in limbo. Forgive me for not feeling sorry for them.

And how presisely did any Republican gain 'extra power'? And if they have, what do you think they are doing with it? Got any proof, or is this more fear mongering by your side - the side that appears to demand that old ladies be frisked in the airport alongside more reasonable suspects? Your blind-eyed approach to justice is without common sense given the circumstances. And those circumstances ARE different - 9/11 did change a great deal.

IMHO the 'modern age' isn't any different than the past. There's still brutality, there's still conflicts, but there is ONE difference: No clear outcomes. If I'm a dinosaur for wishing for one, so be it.

Re:I agree, let's have 'rules'...

[poofyhairguy82]

And how presisely did any Republican gain 'extra power'?

For your evidence, just look at Bush's approval ratings after 9/11. He went from "guy that kinda won the election" to "father America" in one day. I'm not bitter. I kind of like Bush (I believe he is a good man) and I agree with many that Gore would have been worse in the role. I don't like what his cronies did with his gained power.

And if they have, what do you think they are doing with it?

After 9/11, the Pentagon used the event as an excuse to end the Gulf War the way Bush 1 would not let them. They knew that if they attacked Iraq so soon after Afghanistan that most people would think that such an attack meant that Iraq was also behind 9/11 and support the move. They were right. It took two years and an election to get through most people's heads that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. The American public is that ignorant. Smart people in the Pentagon, and I might support their brand of evil if they didn't do it by creating a large deficit.

Got any proof, or is this more fear mongering by your side - the side that appears to demand that old ladies be frisked in the airport alongside more reasonable suspects?

The proof is all the dead Americans in the Iraq war.

Your blind-eyed approach to justice is without common sense given the circumstances.

And your enthusiasm to follow the constitution only when it fits you will bite you in the ass in twenty years when Democrats (firmly in control of the government) send Repbulican supporters to Cuba using your party's precedent. The worst thing about the current Republican government as it is is the assumption that they will always be on top.

So where is the proof?

[walterbyrd]

I noticed that you sidestepped the issue, and didn't supply any proof. Instead you just started name calling.

I can tell you this, it cost me $40 in tariffs to send an old computer monitor to a friend in Canada, as a gift. I also happen to know that Canada has huge tariffs on many USA goods.

If you can supply proof of USA wrong doing, I would be glad to read it.

Re:So where is the proof?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had many things i've gotten online shipped as gifts, with much thanks to those sellers who did that. Those would be shipped from the US to Canada. I've never paid anything more than $5 on the items sent as gifts, and even those not sent as gifts I didn't pay $40 on. And this was computer hardware. Are you positive that a large portion of that $40 wasn't just the fact that the old monitor weighed a lot?

As well, Canadian tarriffs aren't as high because we have respected the international organizations. We will wait for the WTO to rule in our favor before putting punitive tarriffs in place. And if they don't side with Canada, then the punitive tarriffs don't get placed. There are still protective tarriffs, dont' get me wrong. I'm not saying that Canada is perfect. But the US gets mad over the supposed soft wood subsidies, whereas the wood harvested in the Maritime Provinces is not done in the same way as out west, and largely off of private land (the land being held largely by Irving).

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[Anonymous Coward]

You have your own brand of being a faggot too. With your flapping Canadian head.

Re:GMAFB!

[Anonymous Coward]

But, aren't you free to commit more butt fucking in the name of faggot liberation and political correctness?

Face

[Anonymous Coward]

Any actions that China takes like this are just a matter of saving face. BT sites are allowed to operate in China and are even registered with the government. Check out Secret Cinema sometime, they're based in China: http://www.secret-cinema.com/

Law suit file no decision

[brazenmisfit]

I see a lot of people attacking the chinese government over this, but as far as I can tell from TFA there doesn't seem to have been a decision in this case. The article states that Baidu has been sued, not that it has lost a lawsuit. Not only that but the lawsuit isn't even filed by the chinese government so how is this the chinese government bowing to media companies and restricting the web.

It's possible that I just missed a link to the decision, if I did could somebody please provide me the link, I am interest in reading about it.

Re:Law suit file no decision

[blehlaner]

your not missing anything really. china bashing and bush bashing is the fad right now. its safer to china-bash than bush-bash, as you won't be seen as UnpatrioTic.

well..

[fliptout]

I live in China, and it is just as easy to pirate chinese media. Ho hum.

The Chinese have always been good at lying and cheating, though of course that is overgeneralizing. Furthermore, as china becomes more metropolitan, the sharing of information can only increase. It's a side effect of being open to the global free market.

Pros and cons, trade-offs. At least there aren't so many fat chicks here.

Price info on Chinese DVDs

[tiggles]

There's some information.. .I guess missing from the replies to this (Me or my friends have bought hundreds in several provinces):

-The standard price of a DVD in China on the street or a dirty shop is 6 RMB (79 US cents), that gets a sleeve, hilarious attempt at the original box and silk screened DVD. They usually have all the extras stripped to fit on a DVD5 but they have english (the original) audio with Chinese (often Traditional) subtitles.

-VCDs/DVCD/SVCD (SVCD is a Chinese made format to compete with DVD) can be as cheap as 1 RMB, but are usually 2-5 (5 is too much). These are more of a crapshoot -- often they don't have the original audio.

-Same prices for porn, often with blurred bits or just still pictures

-You can barter, but apart from bulk discounts, it isn't common

-roughly 1 in 10 don't work. My regular shops take returns or let you preview them.

hmm, maybe I should add that to my webpage

whites are also major consumers of pirated dvds.

[blehlaner]

piracy is bad china, true. and ppl from USA all respect copyrights, BS. in malaysia, i see thousands of westerners, coming here every year, bringing many a list of 20-40 movie titles. 1 list=20-40 titles,1 list for their every family members, from mother inlaw to daughter to neighbour. ending up going home with shitcases of pirated dvds. so who's the big consumer of pirated dvds? third world country ppl? obviously. but also westerners. the first thing a USA tourist ask a malaysian, "where can you get good quality dvds?" so who is paying to sleep with child prostitutes in sri lanka and thailand and other third world countries? mostly white westerners, thats who. now who is the hypocrite here? stop pretending like westerners are clean and really respect every copyright laws.

Really intresting..

[Mr Europe]

Really intresting to see how american big companies can cope chinese court in a suit based on chinese law !

They didn't expect Baidu to obey american law did they ?

Baidu loses first round of copyright dispute

[AtomicJake]

Baidu lost first round of copyright dispute after one day of trial in the first instance. Baidu say that they will appeal.

A Similar but Different situation...

[Chordonblue]

We Americans didn't come to the U.K. and start blowing random shit up - we defended ourselves on our own territory and the Brits took it to us. Tell me again how taking out the WTC and the Pentagon 'helped' the people in Afghanistan.

This is a holy war based on religious principles. Our own revolution was fought due to high taxation and an inability to control our country's destiny. Nonetheless, the Brits were known to target the homes of our 'terrorists' and kill women and children as well so let's not quibble about who the real terrorists are/were.

But still, you didn't find American 'terrorists' in London then - bombing Big Ben and cutting off your heads in the name of Jesus Christ. That would be a more accurate comparison to what's happening now.

Downloads vs uploads

[StormReaver]

It's not music downloads that get a person into trouble. It's music uploads.

America, America, America...

[Anonymous Coward]

When will you learn that your so called hypocrisy can't survive outside your own land?

And FYI, compared to your draconian rules like DMCA it's you that's under communist rule while the rest of the world revel in true democracy.

Face it, your golden age has past. Time for you to wither away and be gobbled up with hurricanes...

Re:NO, I'm sorry...

[Intrigued]

Great... so now I open my mouth and get sucked into a political dispute... oh, well... here goes...

To step back from specific countries involved in the current debate, there is one understanding that seems to be missing here...
There are no rules that a government follows. Only duty to it's citizens(or power base) and negotiations with other governments.
The rights and freedoms that are being disputed here are based on the rights that a country claims for it's own citizens. Due process is only guaranteed to the citizens of the country via that country's constitution, laws, etc. with the power of that society, in mass, to enforce that law upon itself.
A constitution and "innocent until proven guilty" only applies to citizens within a country, not POW's (or whatever you may call them).

All the rest of the POW, geneva convention, etc, is only supported in a treaty manner between various countries.

In this case, the country/combatants that would/could dispute the US stance doesn't respect the treaties either. There is no "you treat our people with respect and we will treat yours with the same"(unless you think that the US should chop off it's prisoners heads).
Third party allied countries that could exert influence to change the conditions don't have enough influence/interest to make a change. Non-allied countries don't find enough violation to pick a side.
After the dispute settles and the new government is making desicions for it's people about it's own people. They may make a stance for the treatment of it's citizens/war criminals. Or, given enough press, the citizens of the US or other countries with influence may dispute the treatment of the incarcerated. There may even be some kind of trial. But it won't be based on the values that US holds for it's own citizens.

Does it suck?
yep.

Is it fair?
when does fair ever make a difference in politics or international relations?

Will it change?
No. This situation exists and always had at those levels of government and power. Fortunately, it is better than it used to be in history.

The only thing that will change it is the attitude of the citizens, proliferation of information and the influence of the citizens on their government. In the US (or UK, any other open democracy), those things are not as high as they should be, higher than many countries, and definately higher than they are in the countries that have been in dispute with.

Re:NO, I'm sorry...

[Anonymous Coward]

Due process is only guaranteed to the citizens of the country via that country's constitution, laws, etc. with the power of that society, in mass, to enforce that law upon itself.

Bullshit, if you have someone in your prison the rules apply to them as well, even if you place the prison somewhere else.

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[japhmi]

Guantanamo Bay

They open a POW camp in Cuba, who hasn't signed the Geneva Convention. How fitting isn't it?

1. It's a US military base, so it's bound by the Geneva convention.
2. The people who were brought there were not wearing uniforms. Therefore, under the Geneva Convention, they are NOT POWs and have NO RIGHTS. The Geneva Convention would not prevent any country from torturing them and then killing them. Now, I'm not saying that the US should do this (or that it's been done), but that they have no legal responsibility under the Geneva Convention.

Re:NO, I'm sorry...

[japhmi]

The rights that you are talking about, technically, only apply to citizens.

If this is a war, then declare them POWs.

However, as they are not members of a standing army and were not in any uniforms when captured - they don't fit the description of POWs.

There's already functions in place to deal with "enemy combatants" and has been for over a century.

Yes, there have been. Namely: shoot on sight. It's only been in the last few years that our rules of engagement have disallowed this

Re:NO, I'm sorry...

[Intrigued]

Bullshit right back. What rules does a government have over another country's citizens?
What rules are over any government?
Answer: what the citizens/power block of the government decides.

The "rules" should apply. And quite frankly, I agree that there should be rules concerning this type of thing.

However, if you have someone in your prison that your citizens or those in power of your government don't like/care about/want dead, and the other governments that you are negotiating with don't care and the opposing force has nothing to exchange or even adheres to the rules themselves, what rules do you have to adhere to? Who enforces them. Who can dictate what the rules should be?

Your opinion of what the rules are and who they apply to doesn't mean anything to the real world. The power is in the populous and those that can oppress the populous. Generally the power in the populous is better used than that of the oppressors, but it is far from perfect. Maybe what you are looking for is a theocracy or worldwide dictatorship so the populace always agrees on the ultimate good and adheres to it under penalty from a god/dictator. Of course, that would probably make the current prisoners dead and open all kinds of corruption of religious fanatics or dictator oppression. Until that happens, we are stuck depending on the insufficient morality of the public.

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[rainman_bc]

they are NOT POWs and have NO RIGHTS.

In America, everyone has certain inalienable rights, but I guess a US base doesn't count.

Furthermore, if America is fighting a "War on terror" and have detained someone for being involed in terror, can't we assume that they are a "Prisoner of War"?

America just changed the definition so that they don't have to abide by international law. They are POW's, being held without trial or due process, many for an unjustified period. That's why I compare the US to China - this is a callous act.

Again, my country is no better. Canada imprisoned and eventually deported Zundell without trial or due process either. I don't support Zundell, but support his right to trial.

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[rainman_bc]

Btw, here's an article that explains which articles of the Geneva convention the US has violated.

They spin laws in their favour. Simply calling them detainees instead of POW's itself is a violation of article 4 of the Geneva convention. After all, the term detainee is nothing more than a euphamism for prisoner anywah.

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[japhmi]

Simply calling them detainees instead of POW's itself is a violation of article 4 of the Geneva convention.

Reading article 4, the only place that I can see these guys as potentially being covered is 4.A(2):

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[ (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; (d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

Of course, since they violate sections b and d, they don't fall under this section. The US cannot violate the Geneva convention if the people in question don't fall under it's juristiction.

Re:No doubt, like everything - it's G.W.'s fault..

[japhmi]

they are NOT POWs and have NO RIGHTS.

In America, everyone has certain inalienable rights, but I guess a US base doesn't count.

Nice try at taking my sentence out of context. I said "under the Geneva Convention they are NOT POWs and have NO RIGHTS." In other words: they don't derive any rights from the Geneva Convention. They have to come under one of the 4 groupings of Art 4.A in order to gain those rights.

Now, the US was founded on a philosophy of inalienable rights. However, like all governments, the US has a responsibility to protect it's citizens. Now, the government is in a place where to give these people "life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness" would end up taking it away from others (namely: US Citizens).

Furthermore, if America is fighting a "War on terror" and have detained someone for being involed in terror, can't we assume that they are a "Prisoner of War"?

"Prisoner of War" has become a legal term, so it depends on if they fit the description. Of course, one of the requirements is that their group "[conduct] their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war."

Note: I don't necessarily think that everything done by the US, it's allies, particular individuals elected or employed by the above, etc. is what should be done. I just see that we can't be throwing around things like 'the geneva convention' and the 'right to a trial' without determining if there is a basis for such.

Re:whites are also major consumers of pirated dvds

[Grishnakh]

WTF?? Who ever said Westerners respect copyright laws? Who do you think invented Napster and all the other P2P networks? Westerners did, mostly Americans.

The only Westerners who are extremely concerned with copyright laws are 1) media company executives, and 2) their paid puppets in government. Your average American citizen doesn't give two shits about copyright laws, as you see by all those who stock up on pirated DVDs in Asian countries, all those who use P2P, etc.

Don't confuse regular people with their government, or the rich bastards running the huge corporations.