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'Mr. Samba' Talks About Samba's Future
Jan Stafford writes "SearchEnterpriseLinux is running an article that gives the inside scoop from Samba guru John H. Terpstra on upcoming new features in Samba-3 and Samba-4, recent events in FUD-fighting and the benefits that businesses can realize by adopting open source early."
smbclient \\\\I\\hate\\backslashes
Surely if anyone deserves this title it's Andrew Tridgell.
It's more like:
1. Copy everything in Windows 98.
2-15. Keep redoing everything to keep up with changes Microsoft makes in order to try and bury Samba.
16. Copy everything in Windows 2000.
17. Repeat steps 2-15.
No disrespect or nothin', but did he write his own questions, too?
This wasn't an interview, this was a press release!
Oh well, such is the way of the world, I guess...
--LWM
Arrr. Samba-3 development an' support will continue until at least 2008. O'er that time 't will be gi'en th' ability t' integrate more seamlessly wi' Windows Active Directory an' its clients. Remote captainship features will be further expanded, an' a new remote procedure call infrastructure will replace th' current one, which will be keelhauled. Arrr. Additional facilities bein' added will assist sites that be havin' specific Sarbanes-Oxley requirements. Th' myriad o' new technologies in Samba-4 will be aft-ported t' Samba-3, thus narrowin' th' gap between th' two versions. Samba-4 will ship within th' next voyage an' will live alongside Samba-3 fer a long time. Both versions will strive t' reduce resource requirements an' improve efficiency. Documentation improvements will also continue t' be made, wi' greater focus on support o' deployment an' wi' a lesser focus on th' nuts an' bolts in its internals.
I was under the impression that Tridge was Mr. SAMBA -- and I'm actually curious as to what the man's been up to since that whole OSDL/Linus/Bitkeeper debacle. Oh well.
...just about Samba 3. Samba 4 info can be found here
By allowing Windows desktop-clients to access filespace on Linux-servers, Samba effectively ensures that people can safely ignore the Linux-desktop.
Microsoft is deeply grateful for this, trust me.
You need to give your SMB-Users access to the files - this is usually done by setting the right owners and permissions for the desired files. Check man chown and man chmod for proper syntax. But actually, I don't think ./ is the right place for such questions ;-)
There was nothing about dancing! Geeze!
Evil people don't think they're evil. - George Lucas, Making of Ep III
On the other hand you do end up with an IT department that knows linux.
When you discuss linux on your desktop with them they won't give you the stupid look you get from MS reboot monkeys.
Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
I don't think that will be necessary. I predict that 15 years from now on, Microsoft will either be sweeping their own ashes, or haved moved completely to the gaming business.
The reason? In about 10 years, OpenOffice (or another clone) will kick MS-Office's arse, taking away Microsoft's main revenue. And maybe (MAYBE) by that time, ReactOS will have replaced windows in the same way FreeDOS can replace MS-DOS today. I'm also confident that by that time Linux will have slowly evolved into a really-userfriendly OS.
Unless of course, in the edge of bankruptcy, Microsoft takes the decision to open source their OS and switch their business model to services - but that seems too far fetched.
(Oh - in any case you wonder what the talk was about, I was stating the reasons why Microsoft can't be suing Samba for their networking software)
Hint: smbpasswd
I believe Samba to be one of the great server-side pieces of software in Open Source for companies to slowly switch. This past week, I actually just switched my company's fileserver, and another computer doing domain logon into a single computer doing it all. Easy administration, small footprint (in comparison to windows) and shows restarts are rarely required ;) Next is to switch their desktops too! hehe
I am lollering.
It's been a while since I used windows shares, but I remember having acres of tedious dialogs to wade through trying to make win2k (at least I think it was when 2k came out) share files with all the 98 boxes.... And my did it take a while to find that you have to enable the guest account, even after you had shared the folder with full permissions....
By allowing Windows desktop-clients to access filespace on Linux-servers, Samba effectively ensures that people can safely ignore the Linux-desktop.
<joke>Yes, and Apache serving HTML pages to IE effectively ensures that people can safely ignore the Linux desktop</joke>
The same argument comes up time and time again, most usually in respect to WINE, though usually as better disguised flamebait. Seriously though, if Windows won't play nice with Linux, and Linux won't play nice with Windows, then it comes down to what you need the most. It'd be a bigger pain to do without Windows than to do without Linux, ranging from drivers to applications to games and a host of applications I've come to know and like. And the last thing you want to do if you want people to switch, is to first build a chasm and then tell them to jump.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
It would be nice, wouldn't it?
Of course, you don't actually have to use multiple user bases now. The winbind component can do out-of-the-box Active Directory integration and even map users to linux users. So there's nothing to complain about there.
There are a few big problems with it, though:
1) You can't have a backup for if your WINS system is down; Samba will not deal with both the original and the backup (because it won't sync the winbind produced groups/usernames with the existing groups/usernames).
2) UIDs and GIDs are mapped by Samba on the fly...so if they're different the second time you try it, too bad. You'll just have to chown any files that have the wrong permissions.
I don't really think that Samba's the way to go with this anyway. A better "out of the box" type solution would be to a version of pam_ldap that has built-in support for registering the unix box with an active directory, which is really the only piece that is still a kludge (to do pam_ldap+nss_ldap+mit_krb5+sasl, you have to manually get the keytab right now).
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Hint:
http://www.mandrivalinux.com/
Run rpmdrake, search for 'wizard'.
Don't worry, be happy.
Oh well, what the hell...
"Linux and open source software...is a first step to securing a better future for our children...."
I am a big fan of Samba, but even I think that's a pretty lofty statement.
I don't think that will be necessary. I predict that 15 years from now on, Microsoft will either be sweeping their own ashes, or haved moved completely to the gaming business.
You haven't seen the new generation lock-in Microsoft has for the 15 year timeframe. In 15 years, people will be running Windows or OS X because all mainstream content is only sold in DRM'd formats Linux can't touch. And don't forget the possibility for a bundle - imagine giving Xbox 2015 basic Windows + Office capabilities. They wouldn't do it now since they got everyone buying a Windows PC already, but in a losing market they can do a damn lot to make it a bittersweet victory.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
No, you were supposed to take the answer out of context, make an irrelevant smart-ass remark, and get modded funny. And you have succeeded.
The question was about where adopting Samba would eventually lead businesses, not about why they should adopt it. And it certainly wasn't about you.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
i didn't get any links for the running shoe when i searched for just samba.
However if someone is looking for the running shoe and gets a whole load of irrelevent computing links a sponsored link would be the only relavent thing on the page and therefore likely to get clicked on.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Often wrong but never in doubt.
I am Jack9.
Everyone knows me.
ReactOS will have replaced windows in the same way FreeDOS can replace MS-DOS today.
By that do you mean ReactOS will be able to replace a completely obsolete OS that has been superseeded by a much stronger and more market dominant OS made by the same company. If so... whoopie for open sores... we've wons ourselves a bigun'.
How come, on the edge of bankruptcy, switching Windows to Open Source saves the company? I thought the product was crap?
I honestly think in 15 years your Gentoo box will have just finished compiling Emacs for Gnome and all of the dependancies.
That's how it looks when someone knows how to answer questions. If you go back and look at those questions again you will see some real barbs. Allow me to point out some of the more dangerous ones:
For businesses, what is adopting Linux the first step toward?
This question came 2/3rds down the article when Linux was mentioned for the first time outside of the site name. The reporter is asking him to justify his product's and free software's existence. That a big question you can lose in daily details. His answer, "Linux is a first step toward organizational independence from single-vendor IT sources," is just what people want to hear.
Could you name a couple of other Samba-3 features that have a niche and are only used in those niches?
This is a follow up to another question that together are tricky. The first question asked him, "What are the primary capabilities of Samba-3 ..." John avoided the trap by not answering the first question litterally with one or two things and then rejecting the notion Samba is a "niche" product useful only to a few dozen small shops.
Those kinds of questions are classic. His answers are simply up to task. If you don't appreciate it, just let someone like Jan grill you one day. From a distance, behind good cover like John, the words look like honey. When they are in your face and you are trying to get other things done, they can look very hard. She's has been around longer than Linux and knows how to get a story. Bad answers to any of these questions would look bad but good answers are equally good.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
That interview was an aweful lot like a press release. Is this guy making money on Samba somehow?
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
For the first time dog programmer!
Are you seriously defending invoking "the children" in the context of using OSS? Leave aside the general silliness of putting it in terms of ethics (there is nothing intrinsically ethical about OSS, foolishness from RMS notwithstanding), invoking a better future for children is just dumb.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Another big problem is, one can't just install/configure the server and go away and be sure that will run without problems. Samba is mostly OK, unless users or other software mess with file permissions etc. and somehow users will always find a way to mess with it (murphy) most probably at friday afternoon, so the admin can sit the weekend in the server room and amuse himself with all geekish things all admins always do.
Users are to be taken as serious threat and I don't think that Samba protects itself good enough from user intervention. A very basic Samba installation to share a single printer can crash down the whole server due big temporary files filling the HDD because of a moron that chooses to use some other printer driver. OK, that is not directly a problem of Samba, but if it is there to manage the sharing of the printer, it has to have a better talk with the printserver and other system resources.
On the other side, such problems may be the only way to keep a job as an admin in the near future.
exit();
Some of my co-workers who have macs have mentioned similar problems. (They phrase it as "printing from macs doesn't work," but I assume MacOS X also uses Samba for this, and they're experiencing the same problem I was.)
It's just extremely hard to chase a moving target.
Find free books.
I predict that 15 years from now on, Microsoft will either be sweeping their own ashes
n ey/31digi.html?ei=5090&en=b674d209b5106a1b&ex=1280 462400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=prin t
I predict that in 15 years, microsoft will finally have gotten the patent on breathing air sucessfully badgered through and we'll all be paying $5000 a second to breathe. can't pay? then grow a set of gills.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/business/yourmo
Frankly right now most linux software is violating as least ONE microsoft patent. even microsoft probably doesn't know which patents are being violated, seeing as how they have over 50,000 patents already. including a patent on double clicking. so don't get your hopes up. linux is dead the day microsoft can't make money through simple threats and extortion. fortunately that day will never come, because windows is number one, everyone has to support windows, of they can't make money. linux has to skirt around patents and try to hope they don't get sued into oblivion from the patents they don't know how to get around... and if linux ever gets too big for it's britches microsoft has 50,000 photon torpedoes(aka patents) ready to fire into any linux company that dares tread into the microsoft bottom line.
Microsoft has spent 20 billion dollars finacing drives to make software patents unilatirally accepted by the entire civilized world, so unless you want to go move to somalia to try and hack your linux kernel, with a gun to blow away any microsoft lakeys who try and tell you you're violating there patent law.. well you're fucked. microsoft owns the right to code an operating system, every key aspect that makes a modern operating system usable is patented either by them, or a competitor. who's signed agreements that prevent them from just 'giving' away the rights to there patents. so i predict in 15 years, we're all using microsoft products because everyone else is in prison, pennyless, or dead.
I predict that 15 years from now on, Microsoft will either be sweeping their own ashes, or haved moved completely to the gaming business. The reason? In about 10 years, OpenOffice (or another clone) will kick MS-Office's arse, taking away Microsoft's main revenue.
Your prediction is wishful thinking at best, because I don't see any realistic logic being applied in your post. Like in game theory, to find the most winning path you have to assume your opponent (Microsoft in this case) will be making the best moves it can in its favor. Microsoft is not going to sit around for 10+ years while others out-compete it. This, of course, will be good for consumers because as open-source solutions become better alternatives, Microsoft will have to provide even better solutions, which open-source solutions will have to improve on, so on and so on.
ReactOS will have replaced windows in the same way FreeDOS can replace MS-DOS today
Ugh, that's a terrible selling point for your theory. Basically you're saying that FreeDOS can compete today with a product that was, for all purposes, shelved and not much developed on since 1995 (when Win95 came out as a standalone OS).
I've got that book, Samba 3 By Example, and while Samba documentation has historically left a lot to be desired, this book is by far the most worthless bit of documentation (about Samba at least) that money can buy. Do yourself a favor, save a tree, save your wallet, and don't buy this book. The online HOWTO will get you much further and make you want to rip out your hair much less than Samba 3 By Example.
Well, yes. It's not really very unusual for people to work on projects because they want to contribute to the future, which means "the children" if you look at it that way. Why do you think it's odd?
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
Everybody was F U D Fighting!
Those hacks were fast as lightning!
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
if you go to the mandriva web stie (and you know with a long, hard to prounuce and spell name, aint got long for this world) you can follow one of the review links to....
(during install)
All hardware, such as graphics and sound, are configured and tested at this point. It's essential that the correct resolution for your monitor is chosen here as it isn't possible to change it to use a higher one without returning to the installation process.
Is this for real ? I can't believe that you have to set monitor res during install.
I set up a University print server with lpd, netatalk, and samba 5 years ago and had no significant problems. I'm currently running a cups and samba print server in a company and have no problems at all.
Maybe Samba isn't your problem. As they say, a bad tradesman blames his tools.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
John will be speaking at SCALE 4x this year. SCALE 4x, the 2006 southern California Linux Expo will be held on Feb 11-12, 2006. It is a grass roots / community run linux and open-source conference based in Los Angeles. Their Call For Papers is still open.
Actually I attended a seminar by him today and he's dead serious about doing it for children. He's also against software patents, onerous IP law, tarriffs, and single vendors.
Don't knock him until you actually read some of his articles.
kashani
- Why is the ninja... so deadly?
Everybody was Kung-FUD fighting
Those hacks were fast as lightning
In fact it was a little bit frightning
But they crack 'en expert typing.
They were funky Hacking dudes from funky IRC
They were hacking them up and they were hacking them down
It's an ancient Cracker art and everybody knew their part
From a p0f into nmap, and cracking with l0pht.
Everybody was Kung-FUD fighting
Those hacks were fast as lightning
In fact it was a little bit frightning
But they hack with typing a blazin'.
There was funky K'vin Mitnick and little Jon Johansen.
He said here comes the big mafia, lets get it on
We ping their host and made a stand, started DoS'ing with deft of a hand
The sudden BSOD made me lurch, now we're into a brand new stepping stones.
Everybody was kung-FUD fighting
Those hacks were fast as lightning
In fact it was a little bit frightning
But they flip it with incredible l33t typin'.
(repeat)..make sure you have expert typing
Kung-FUD fighting, had to be fast as lightning
Everybody was Kung-FUD fighting ...
+Funny, well-crafted parody, made me laugh.
-kgj
-kgj
Regarding the uid gid mapping, you can also use ridmaping which caculates a static map from windows id' to unix. There is also the possibility of saving the maps on an ldap server, assuring the same id everywhere.
Just a quick fyi. The winbindd cache is persistent, so it will always map the same way on subseqent lookups. The winbindd uid/gid cache can also be remoted onto an LDAP server, making the cache common between multiple instances of winbindd on different machines. So it's not as bad as you paint it and is used in some very large organisations as their main mapping mechanism between Windows and UNIX.
Jeremy.
invoking a better future for children is just dumb.
It certainly isn't. There is a battle going on over who controls our software. Big software companies are trying to make us depend on their software and standards, OSS tries to do the opposite. Will our children be consumers who will be told what they want in the next corporate PR campaign or will they be citizens in control.
It's not about ethics or freedom, it is about money and power. It's about Microsoft being able to squeeze huge profits out of us not by making exceptional products but by controlling software standards that could have been open. It's also about monopolies breeding new monopolies, if we don't manage to stop it here it will go from bad to worse. So yes, Samba is a small part of an important fight and your ridiculing them isn't helpful.
Anyone who generalizes about slashdotters is a typical slashdotter.
Either enable the guest acount or set up a user with the same login and password for each win98 machine. Of course this let them log onto the win2000 box so security was out the windows in both cases.
15 years from now, Microsoft will either be selling as strong as ever with whatever new items of interest that comes out or switching to a patten holding company. You could nuke redmond today and they could regear and support thier future existance for quite some time.
BTW, MS can't sue over Samba because they aren't copying anything except network commands thier product already accepts. Microsofts CIFS and SMB software is traced back to a public domain version of SMB. About the only way MS could sue would be if they changed the whole fundementals of thier file sharing services, required a special network card that only worked in windows and special cab ling to lock out any competition. Then they could claim DMCA violation when someoen tryed to crack it.
Actualy, it is in thier best interest to allow the competition to interact with thier software. As long as microsoft can stay one sustantial step ahead of them they arte doing good. Linux deployment won't surpass the number of windows servers for this field because of the money spent. Those using linux for file serving wouldn't be buying much from microsoft in that area in the first place outside thier desktop software wich seems to be the money maker. As long as people see an alternative to them, the masses won't wise up to thier tactics and revolt. It is a win-win situation for microsoft. even if it cuaes them to loose that part of the market.
speaking of print drivers crashing the server, Try unpluging a printer from the network and let a few users print to it. That happened recently and several XP boxes slowed to a crawl with Spoolv taking most of the processing power up. The fix was to manualt delete the spool file in the system folder.
My guess is if that happened, you might be fixing more then a printserver.
...THEN knock him.
I guess today is a passable day to die.
It might be worth noting that by using idmap_rid as the idmap backend, you can get common uid/rid mappings on multiple samba servers without having to set up LDAP.
In a small AD implementation with a couple Linux boxes running samba, I find idmap_rid to be ideal. I run across folks with this level of need all the time.
Samba is often the first introduction to Open Source software many large companies have. I have worked in a company where Linux was "bad" because "no-one controlled it". Samba however was used on all the trading floors for the Sparc workstations.
I thought Samba like windows had no future.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
What are you smoking...
The desktops are already running windows, SAMBA allows linux servers to be used where they could not be if samba did not exist.
If the windows desktop cliens couln't access filespace on linux-servers, it would be the linux servers that went away, not the windows desktops.
Pull your head out of the sand.
Jorgie
I'm not so sure microsofts really in the game anymore. I'm [not] afraid it takes more than money to innovate.
A ribbon? What cockamainey b.s. Its just a toolbar, but bigger? Supposedly the first update to Office since o95 itself... color me unexcitied.
-AC
"Think of the children" makes sense in some scenarios. "Should we go sky-diving?" "No, think of the kids, they don't have parachutes." It's only stupid when it's not a real concern: "Think of the children - they can't handle cartoons!"
"Think of the next generation - don't ruin the environment" - Makes sense.
"Think of the kids - don't install all MS crap" - Makes sense.
I'd be pissy if I had to support MS and there weren't any open source tools - a scenario Microsoft has often said it's working towards. (You know, trying to get the US Gov to ban governmental use of open source, etc.)
Windows 95 was not a standalone OS. In fact, it was DOS-based just like Windows 3.1 was.
Microsoft-free since March 28, 2004