Slashdot Mirror


Sony Doing An End Run Around Its Own DRM

glassgnost writes "According to a story at CNN, Sony has an odd response to complaints from fans who have discovered they cannot import their CD content to an iPod. Individuals who complain to Sony BMG about iPod incompatibility are being directed to a Web site that provides information on how to work around the technology. In short, some labels appear to have been instructing customers how to defeat DRM -- which, IIRC, is a violation of DMCA." From the article: "For now, the copy-protected discs work only with software and devices compatible with Microsoft Windows Media technology. Apple -- the dominant player in digital music -- has resisted appeals from the labels to license its FairPlay DRM for use on the copy-protected discs. The DRM initiatives are generating complaints from fans, many of whom own iPods. The message boards of artist fan sites and online retailers are filled with complaints from angry consumers who did not realize they were buying a copy-protected title until they tried to create music files on their home computers."

37 of 353 comments (clear)

  1. Blaming Apple by powerpuffgirls · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Interestingly SonyBMG is blaming Apple for the lack of support.

    I think this situation is bound to happen, when your right hand doesn't know what your left hand is doing.

    1. Re:Blaming Apple by Scratched · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sony is ignorant to realize that the secure windows media format that they use on their CDs is also proprietary. Microsoft may have the majority market share, but they are still proprietary. Their secure wma format will not run on apple computers or on open alternatives, just the same as apple's secure format will not work with windows media player or an open alternative. Both companies are just being ignorant and childish tring to get their DRM format to come out on top, but I think that Sony is in the wrong on this occasion for trying to say that apple is not cooperating.

    2. Re:Blaming Apple by kalidasa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is fraudelent: they're not talking about "ripping" at all, but simply transferring their DRMed files.

    3. Re:Blaming Apple by Ahnteis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be fair, Microsoft is at least willing to license the DRM. Apple refuses to do so.

    4. Re:Blaming Apple by Gizzmonic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To be fair, Microsoft is at least willing to license the DRM. Apple refuses to do so.

      I guess we all just imaged that Motorola iTunes phone then?

      Apple is willing to license the DRM. Sony would rather use this incompatibility as a competitive advantage for its portable players over the iPod (Gee, we've never seen this strategy from Sony before have we?). Once again Sony fails to realize that you can't annoy your customers into buying their crap.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    5. Re:Blaming Apple by timmyf2371 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      But to be even fairer, Apple shouldn't have to.

      The customers should be able to purchase a CD unencumbered with DRM'd files - I don't have any problems converting real CDs to MP3 on either PC or Mac.

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    6. Re:Blaming Apple by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If you believe that you should be able to easily move tracks from your protected CD

      Parse error on line 6: can't interpret "protected" applied to derivative of trademarked name "compact disc".

      There is no such thing. If it's copy-protected, it's not a CD. Simple as that, really.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    7. Re:Blaming Apple by GweeDo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Use the Apple iPod/iTunes feedback form to tell Apple you THANK THEM for not support SonyBMG's copy protection. The more pissed off iPod owners the better. There are more and more of them everyday.

    8. Re:Blaming Apple by Eunuchswear · · Score: 4, Insightful


      In short, DRM is never going to work on general purpose computers. So just stop trying.


      You underestimate the power of the dark side of the farce.

      The DRM guys have, like you, realised that DRM is impossible on general purpose computers. Their solution is not to stop trying, it's to get rid of the general purpose computer.

      Welcome to "trusted computing". I.e. soon your computer will trust microsoft/apple/sony instead of you.
      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
  2. Best advice: Bring 'em back by randalx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Instead of circumventing the copy protections, I hope most are simply returning their cd. Obviously they only care about their bottom line and not the trouble they put their "consumers" through. It's the only way they might get the message.

    1. Re:Best advice: Bring 'em back by ewhac · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Agreed. Return it as defective merchandise.

      Copy protection is a product defect. It is an artificially-introduced capacity for failure that would not exist if it wasn't there. Intentionally selling defective merchandise shouldn't be tolerated.

      Schwab

  3. Apple should do what?! by Karma_fucker_sucker · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From TFA: The company, which has sold more than 13 million copy-protected discs to date, is urging people who buy copy-protected titles to write to Apple and demand that the company license its FairPlay DRM for use with secure CDs.

    How about you ("The Company") give the technology to Apple so that you don't lose their users as customers. How would you like it if Apple published on their website that said "Don't buy your company's CDs, they are incompatible with our technology and refuse to change it." You see, in this case, Apple is driving the market. Either conform, or lose customers.

    --
    Evil people don't think they're evil. - George Lucas, Making of Ep III
  4. Re:I don't think it is a violation of the DMCA... by heavy+snowfall · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The interesting thing would be this:

    • they're showing people how to circumvent their DMCA-protected anti-copying measures.
    • This results in them not being able to use the DMCA against anyone over this specific technology.

    --
    The top ten PalmOS apps
  5. Re:Text of the canned circumvention email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These companies are mind bogglingly stupid:

    Once the standard Audio CD has been created, place this copied CD back into your computer and open iTunes. iTunes can now rip the songs as you would any normal audio CD.

    They are saying: take your crappy, damaged, DRM-encumbered CD, and make a "standard Audio CD" out of it. Then rip it normally. Well, WTF, why not just SELL STANDARD AUDIO CDs TO BEGIN WITH!!!! Idiots!!

    Please note an easier and more acceptable solution requires cooperation from Apple[.] To help speed this effort, we ask that you [..] contact Apple and ask them to provide a solution that would easily allow you to move content from protected CDs [..] rather than having to go through the additional steps above

    Dear Apple. Sony sold me a damaged disc that looks like a CD but really isn't. Can you please damage your products too, so they work together? I love products that cost more and do less!!

  6. Re:Why is it that Fair Use seems to be forgotten? by DigitalEmperor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Fair Use only allows the end-user exemption from copyright law when the copying of the content is possible. The doctrine doesn't state anywhere that the content has to be made copyable.

  7. Repeat After Me by mpapet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When you buy a CD you purchase the priviledge to play the CD in a manner that the record company approves. Repeat three times.

    Now, for every person that says "No way! The law says..." They may be right, but I submit that the music distributors (via RIAA) are training people to believe and behave according to the statement above and completely ingnoring the law. (not breaking, but pretending it doesn't exist) These laws in particular protect the rich from the poor.

    Whatever laws may say otherwise, I submit that a coherent challenge to this mission won't be happening because the resources required to do so are:

    -out of reach of nearly all the people consuming music.
    -lack of incentive on the part of the people with the resources to challenge the RIAA. They are most likely shareholders garnering a return or otherwise can pay the price without concern.
    -Mounting a challenge to this is likely to be criminalized outright because it's easy to label it "they just want to steal our music." (reminds me of the medical marijuana lobby)
    -Allowing a CD to be used for more than one purpose is bad capitalism. The owner wants to monetize every single use and the current political climate in the US encourages this.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  8. Re:Sony seems to be of two minds about this by Locke2005 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sony's right hand, I'd like to introduce you to Sony's left hand... it's obvious the two of you have never met!

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  9. the death of music distribution by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the internet is disruptive technology

    we don't NEED music conglomerates

    teenagers pick up guitars to impress chicks, not to become millionaires

    if in the future artisits don't become millionaires, do you really think people will stop making music? as if fame and women aren't incentive enough?

    and even then, in the future, bands will make their money the old fashion way: touring, stage appearances, and the ticketing that comes with that

    and the bootlegs, videos, of that appearance will be free, as well as their entire catalog

    so sell your stock in sony, and buy some ticketmaster stock

    because the internet has made the media cheap

    but there is still only one artist, and in meatspace, as opposed to cyberspace, the artist is a rare commodity, so you can still sell tickets

    who loses in this future world?

    nothing but the music distrubutors

    the fans, and the artists, win

    bye bye, dinosaurs

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  10. Are they trying to pull a fast one? by kizzbizz · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Unfortunately, in order to directly and smoothly rip content into iTunes it requires the assistance of Apple. To date, Apple has not been willing to cooperate with our protection vendors to make ripping to iTunes and to the iPod a simple experience. If you believe that you should be able to easily move tracks from your protected CD to your iPod then we encourage you to use the following link to contact Apple directly and tell them so. http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html"

    So, they are trying to convince me that the reason THEY are DRM-ing their CD's is because of Apple? Im sorry, but who do they expect will be convinced by this? We're not talking about Momma and Poppa Joe here who will be complining- this will be educated individuals from the internet generation. These people will easily be able to see right through this decieteful childsplay. This is a foolish act by Sony that makes them sound like even more of faceless evil megacorporation than they already do.

    1. Re:Are they trying to pull a fast one? by SlimFlem · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm so sick of all this blame-game bullshit being played by the music industry and I'm sick of all the crying and whining by the RIAA. This bullshit article tries to push the term "protected music" like it's doing something for you and making your life better but damn Apple for messing up my "protected music" experience. What the hell kind of shit is that? I don't want, need, or will never buy anyone's stupid ass "protected music". Please, it's all a bunch of shit. I don't miss wasting my hard earned money on cd's at all.

    2. Re:Are they trying to pull a fast one? by SlimFlem · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In other words, Sony is trying to pressure Apple into helping to further their own DRM bullshit. For this, I say f you Sony and applaud Apple. For one, in my opinion, Apple only has FairPlay simply to have allowed itself to get in the game. Now that's in and dominates the scence from both ends, why should they license their technology and help other's DRM crap get a bigger foothold. I see Apple's DRM/FairPlay only has a means to get into a market, dominate it and that's it. None of the greedy pig music labels would have let iTunes happen if Apple didn't have something in place. So try looking at these thing from a different angle. Apple is doing what it *has* to to dominate the digital music scene with its products and be #1, not trying to cut people off from using a product. Sony and others are simply trying to put in place as many restrictions on the purchaser as possible. I have other opinions on this subject, such as CEO Bronfman (Warner), but I won't repeat them here due to their pure ugliness.

    3. Re:Are they trying to pull a fast one? by kizzbizz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It isn't reading comprehension problem- it's deceptive wordplay. Apparently, DRM is not a necessity- they devoted an entire website to explain to users how to circumvent it. Logically, the ONLY other reason they would want to implement it is to make a statement to Apple- Let us license, or your users cannot listen to our CD's. Then, they create a FAQ explaining to users that it isn't their fault they wont let their CD's play on Itunes, but Apples. I'm not arguing that its Sony's fault for taking this course of action- its their CD's, they can do what they want. But to paint themselves out to be angels and Apple to be the wrongdoers, thats just scummy.

  11. Silly consumers, you should have downloaded that! by _xeno_ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Silly consumers, you should know better than to actually pay for the product, since it'll just be broken! You should just go download the song illegally over the Internet, because that gives you a working copy that you can use as you see fit.

    So, essentially, with DRM, Sony has succeeded in making the pirated copies of the songs more valuable than the real copies. Brilliant strategy.

    DRM always seems to work like that. All it accomplishes is making the "official" versions that much worse. How many people here have wound up downloading the "NOCD" versions of games that you paid for, simply because either the nuisance of having to swap disks was keeping you from playing, or because the copy protection actually crashed? I can't remember which game (C&C Generals?), but I remember I couldn't actually play a game recently because it's copy protection scheme actually would crash.

    I can only hope that eventually the media companies will realize that all this DRM stuff is simply taking value away from their product, not adding anything to it. Apparently their solution to piracy is to make the pirated product more attractive than their own. Then they wonder why the strategy isn't working. Hmm...

    --
    You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
  12. Strange and noble decision by Apple by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'm surprised and impressed that Apple don't license FairPlay to companies that make crippled CDs. What most of those CDs do is have portion of CD-ROM-unreadable music tracks that still sort of play in a normal CD player, and then DRM-locked compressed versions of the same songs that you can copy to a hard drive or a music player. But the most common music players, iPods, can't read those files, because the only DRM they know how to read is FairPlay.

    If Apple wanted, they could get the crippled CDs out there all using FairPlay to DRM the compressed songs. It's strange they don't. You would think that this would give a further competitive advantage to their iPod line of players, as well as seeing to it that everyone is using iTunes for playback and FairPlay for DRM. Should Apple want to, all of these objectives would be within reach. The strange thing is that they don't seem to want to. Somehow they wait on the sidelines while the music industry seems to default to Windows Media DRM. This is a less useful format for the majority of customers, and with enough of it around, competitors to the iPod get a serious advantage.

    So my question is this: Why is Apple holding out on the licensing of FairPlay? Is it simply that they think crippled CDs are evil and they don't want to dirty their hands with it? Strange.

    1. Re:Strange and noble decision by Apple by tsotha · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So my question is this: Why is Apple holding out on the licensing of FairPlay? Is it simply that they think crippled CDs are evil and they don't want to dirty their hands with it?

      No. Apple controls the hardware and distribution for iPod users, and they like it that way. They want to break consumers of the habit of buying little discs of plastic.

      If buying music on a CD becomes a hassle because of the DRM it helps Apple. If music companies are forced to release only DRM-less CDs, it helps Apple because the music companies have to go through Apple to have DRM, something they desparately want. The only way Apple doesn't come out ahead is if they allow other companies a peice of the iPod pie.

  13. Re:Incorrect by jonbryce · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It isn't a DMCA violation if they own the copyright. They can give people permission to copy the music onto their ipod, and they can tell people how they would prefer them to do it.

  14. Re:Incorrect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It isn't a DMCA violation if they own the copyright.

    Where in the DMCA does it say that? Sony isn't doing the circumvention themselves. Sony is telling others how to circumvent a copy protection mechanism. From the text of the DMCA, on its face it would appear Sony is in violation of the law.

  15. Re:Anyone actually get a response from Sony/BMG? by hosecoat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The method is actually:

    Step 1: return the cd for your money.
    Step 2: download the mp3 with p2p.

    Note: Step 1 may be omitted in the future.

  16. Apple's Strategy by DingoBueno · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is quite interesting. Although the e-mail blames Apple, I think the users don't really care. By not licensing FairPlay, Apple is really turning the heat on the record execs. Nobody wants a Rio when there's an iPod available. And rather than go through all that work to load the tracks on an iPod, perhaps some users would sooner download the material. For many, that would technically easier. Things certainly do seem to be shaping up for a battle as Apple really starts to flex. Seems like it has the masses backing it, not to mention the disgruntled artists.

    iTunes vs Big Music and Google vs Microsoft: surely an exciting 2006...

    --
    ascii art
  17. Re:Text of the canned circumvention email by paulm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Customer,

        We are sorry that you are having problems driving the car we sold you without
    a steering wheel. An easier and more acceptable solution requires cooperation
    from the DOT to install tracks which your car can ride on and be guided to
    approved locations. To help speed this effort was ask that you contact your
    local DOT.

    Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.

    The Sony BMG Automotive Support Team

  18. Re:Text of the canned circumvention email by bedroll · · Score: 2, Insightful
    They are saying: take your crappy, damaged, DRM-encumbered CD, and make a "standard Audio CD" out of it. Then rip it normally. Well, WTF, why not just SELL STANDARD AUDIO CDs TO BEGIN WITH!!!! Idiots!!

    While I do agree with you I think their reason was to limit the quality of audio that makes it to the internet. Are the WMA files full CD quality? If you burn from their software is it just 128bps mp3 quality music? If so, then ripping the cd and sharing it would have a significant impact on the quality of the music.

    I'm not pretending to know what the quality is, I'm asking and sharing a thought. Please don't flame me for not knowing. I refuse to purchase such products in the first place.

  19. Re:Text of the canned circumvention email by crimoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dear Consumer,

            We are sorry that you are having problems driving the car we sold you without a steering wheel but you were a complete sucker for purchasing such a vehicle in the first place.
            We realize that you have a choice when purchasing automobiles and are happy that despite our products' defects you still choose to buy them. Your sheep-like loyalty is appreciated.

    The Sony BMG Automotive Support Team

  20. Millionaire artists by Infonaut · · Score: 3, Insightful
    teenagers pick up guitars to impress chicks, not to become millionaires

    But the artists who have become millionaires aren't exactly clamoring to change the system, are they? The power is in the hands of artists, but the small number of artists who have benefited by the current system are as a whole uninterested in changing it.

    The fact that you and I don't need media conglomerates doesn't mean that they'll disappear of their own accord. Until big-name artists start working for change, and legislation is passed to curb the music industry's excesses, the industry will use its considerable financial and political clout to resist change.

    The current music industry profit model is probably doomed, but the labels won't let it go away without a fight. They know they're middlemen, and they know that the Internet is particularly good at weeding out middlement. The problem is no matter how many times they get hit on the head with a cluestick, they still can't figure out a way to shift their profit model. Expect this fight to go on for quite some time before the music industry either is utterly destroyed or is forced to adapt to the new reality.

    --
    Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
  21. Re:Incorrect by HiThere · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As I understand the DMCA (IANAL) it is a violation to either create or distribute information about a way to circumvent the copy protection feature. This says NOTHING about who owns the copyrights.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  22. anyone else...? by AdmiralWeirdbeard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Think that they might as well have said:

            "sorry, we're right smack-dab in the middle of one colosal pissing contest with apple right now.

              Unless you want to go out and further support us by buying our inferior digital music player, you should just piss off and do what you were going to do anyways: burn a copy of the cd, then use that copy with itunes to put it on your stupid ipod.

              sure, you'll have inferior audio quality, but fuck you for going with our competitor. you're just lucky we're not suing you for it."

    --
    Come read my stupid blagablog. Rants and Giggles
  23. Re:Text of the canned circumvention email by D'Arque+Bishop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please note an easier and more acceptable solution requires cooperation from Apple, who we have already reached out to in hopes of addressing this issue. To help speed this effort, we ask that you use the following link to contact Apple and ask them to provide a solution that would easily allow you to move content from protected CDs into iTunes or onto your iPod rather than having to go through the additional steps above:

    On the other hand, the easiest and most acceptable solution doesn't require cooperation from Apple:

    DON'T PUT COPY-PROTECTION ON THE BLOODY CDs!

  24. they're not telling people how to circumvent it... by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Read the canned response, it actually tells you to MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE DRM INSTALLED FIRST. Then they want you to install WMP 9 or 10. In other words, they are encouraging you to install their DRM.

    They're not telling you how to circumvent it, they're telling you how to GET IT.

    If it said to disable autorun and then use iTunes to rip it, then it'd be telling you how to circumvent it.

    It's all a scam to get you into their circle of people already using their DRM system. By then it's too late.

    Return the disc as defective. If you pay money for DRMed content, then the music companies will try to sell you more DRMed content. Our only hope here is to return every disc that has protection and hope the retailers stop stocking it due to the hassle. Then the music publishers will be forced to release it without DRM in order to get it on the shelf.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95