Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Guild Wars Still In The Thick of Battle

Posted by Zonk on from the ding dept.

1up.com has an interview with community relations manager Gaile Gray. They discuss changes since the launch, and how the company has acted to keep the player-base happy in a title with no fee to keep them grounded. From the article: "August's event showed us that increasing the rewards for PVP play was both necessary and wise. The feedback we received before the event provided us with a lot of guidance on what players wanted most. We reacted with a substantial boost to faction points and with special rewards for PVP accomplishments...and the players loved it. We're going to keep watching the gameplay progression and reward systems to ensure that both PVP players and cooperative players are adequately rewarded."

46 comments

  1. Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in the thick of farming is more like it....

    1. Re:Well by Goyuix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When runes of superior vigor are selling for 70,000+ gold... I think that farming is certainly a component, and to the point where a casual gamer such as myself will never likely be able to afford one. It certainly is having an impact in the world - inflation - unlimited gold being sent out, but my wages stay the same.... sounds like the US economy right now...

    2. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you're playing PvE, what do you need a superior vigor for? PvE is laughably easy. If you want one for PvP, play for a couple hours and unlock it with faction.

    3. Re:Well by mrwiz · · Score: 1

      you can easily get one for your pvp characters if you PVP for a bit. and pvp is actually fun, unlike farming.

    4. Re:Well by Number13 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      'Cept you never have to actually buy a superior vigor rune, or any other sort of rune, to compete in PvP. If you are trying to use PvE characters in PvP, you are probably doing something wrong. You can unlock the rune for 2000 faction, that is to say, about and hour's worth of victories in the arena at the current faction reward rate.

      The grinding only exists for PvE characters and play....and really, the PvE players would be complaining if there was no pointless goal to grind for.

    5. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea is to go find them yourselves. I've played for about 100 hours now, all very casually, and I've found a superior vigor rune, a superior absorption rune and quite a few majors of both. It's definitely not an issue for the casual gamer, and the casual gamer rarely, if ever, fights the 'hardcore' crowd. It's not really much of an issue. Some people just get unlucky.

  2. To Summarise.. by QuantumG · · Score: -1, Troll

    1. Attract cheapskates with boring PvP gameplay.
    2. Offer substandard content as for-pay expansion packs.
    3. ???
    4. Profit!

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:To Summarise.. by Aranth+Brainfire · · Score: 2, Informative

      I like the way you base your comment on speculation, a lack of facts, and a wish to be flamebait.

      In fact, considering that you apparantly don't even know that they haven't released ANY paid expansions yet, I think I'm going to have to assume that you haven't actually PvPed in the game at all, and therefore are pulling that out of your ass as well.

      --
      "Quoting yourself is stupid." -Me
    2. Re:To Summarise.. by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's the stated plan to make the game profitable. No speculation required.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    3. Re:To Summarise.. by BigZaphod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You haven't played it, have you? It isn't just PvP, the non-PvP is quite good, and there aren't any paid expansions as of yet.

      --
      Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
    4. Re:To Summarise.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so people are "cheapskates" b/c they inherently like boring PvP games? then I guess counter-strike fits right in there... I bought GW about 3 weeks ago and I am enjoying it immensely. I can't afford another bill each month even if it is $15.00...

      insurance, rent, electricity, water/sewer, gas (heat), gas (car), xbox live (cancelled).. food, etc, I'd say I'm pretty tapped out and don't find it a good idea to pay $50 for a game, then $15/month after that.. maybe if the game were free at first with the monthly fee it would work out for me, b/c inherently I lose interest after a few months, unless it's chrono trigger, then I play it for the 20th time

    5. Re:To Summarise.. by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Wait until the paid expansion packs start, then decide if it's better not paying a subscription. Ultima Online has this model (and to a lesser extent, Everquest) and the result is that you're forced to buy the expansion pack otherwise you can't hang out with the friends you've made because they've already bought the expansion pack. It also means the people who refuse to buy the expansion packs quickly become disenfranchised and that makes them really pissed off, so they run around the non-expanded game griefing people.. so you end up buying the expansion pack to get away from them. But rather than learn from history and choose a game with your eyes open, people would rather read the payola reviews and interviews of Guild Wars and think the perfect, no-one pays, world can continue forever.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    6. Re:To Summarise.. by kay41 · · Score: 1
      I'm not disagreeing with the parent completely, but let me provide some simple analysis:

      Guild Wars= $50 retail price + price for expansions (say $45 at the most)

      Random Subscription Game: = $50 retail price + $10-$15 per month subscription

      Guild Wars would have to release about 4 expansions (give or take) per year to equal the amount of money you're paying for a subscription MMO.

      Just a thought.

      --
      arl with a k - a blog of mine.
    7. Re:To Summarise.. by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Yep, which means that players who wish to purchase only one expansion pack a year will have 3 opportunities per year to lose their some of their friends who want to purchase more expansion packs. That means every expansion pack will be met with hostility. Getting people to fork out for a subscription is hard enough without telling them there is no subscription and then hitting them with a quarterly ultimatium, buy the expansion pack or be left behind. That's why offering a free download of an MMORPG client is the worst thing you can possibly do. Players who get a "free trial" will do anything and everything to justify why the game "sux" and not pay the subscription fee. So instead of having customers decide once if they like the game and subscribe to it, you now are asking them every quarter to decide if the game is worth another purchase.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    8. Re:To Summarise.. by inkless1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nothing like Slashdot to bring out the idiot trolls.

      I've played month to month MMOs. Unless you are hardcore into the genre, they suck in terms of monetary value.. Period. It's a horrible payment schme. Every day you aren't playing the game - you're still paying for it. Oh, and if you dare play with friends and don't play enough to keep up with them ... well, you can't play with them much longer. So you have to keep playing or else you're just wasting money AND time spent already in the game. I play GW because it's fun, not to level grind or keep up with the Joneses. I've already put in 40 hours PvE. So...I've already used the money I've spent on a normal game ... and I'm maybe half way through the current plot. That's not counting the content ANet's already added in ... for free.

      Yeah, the expansion will cost about as much as the original. I'm sorry, how is that any worse than Sony charging nearly full price for an expansion to PlanetSide ... a game which was nothing more than a paid beta when released? Well, because ANet's already showed that they have the chops to make an expansion every bit as worthwhile as the original, and not a patch you have to pay for.

      And who will buy it? Well, people still interested in the game. Since you don't obviously don't play GW, I'll just assume you didn't know how silly a statement it is that you'll need the expansion to keep playing. I've picked up games with veterans, joined games with newbies, and I haven't even touched the additional content to date. What ANet is doing is assuming that they'll be doing a good enough job that the people who have played the original will want more. The expansions won't be required for play ... that's also part of that um, "stated goals" you supposedly read.

      Guild Wars is a different beast than other MMO's out there. Comparing it to other, subscription based, games with expansions is just ignorant.

      Head back to your cave. I'll be in Ascalon if you need me.

    9. Re:To Summarise.. by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Sigh. Let's just wait and see.. but if you want to be honourable, how about you make a gentleman's bet? At some point in time the game will move from loss leader to expansion pack forced upgrades and you'll say "gee, QuantumG was right". When that happens send me a few $k.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    10. Re:To Summarise.. by kay41 · · Score: 1
      The point of my analysis was that there is no way NCSoft will release 4 expansions per year, which is why Guild Wars will be a hell of a lot cheaper to play in the long run.

      Don't get we wrong... world of warcraft is a great game, but as a college a student, I have a hard time justifying paying $15/month for time playing on their servers that I should be using to study.

      It is impossible to compare Guild Wars like this. It's easy to pick up and play for 20 minutes and have a good time. It depends on what kind of commitment you're looking to give a video game. Some have the time to play WoW... I for one do not have that much free time (nor do I have the money to pay for that time I won't be able to use).

      --
      arl with a k - a blog of mine.
    11. Re:To Summarise.. by Brian4120 · · Score: 1

      Guild Wars= $50 retail price + price for expansions (say $45 at the most)
      Random Subscription Game: = $50 retail price + $10-$15 per month subscription       dont forget about expansions for subscription games. i used to play dark age of camelot. buy the game ($50) $15 per month. then you had expansions. thats another $20-$35 right there. so, it can depend on the game. im hoping for either LARGE pay expansions, or sorta big free ones. (Take the sorrows furnace in GW for example)

      --
      13 million whoo!
    12. Re:To Summarise.. by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      By your own admission they must release that many or they have to magically attract more players than subscription based MMORPGs that actually buy the expansions.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    13. Re:To Summarise.. by Jackmn · · Score: 1

      The PVE is awful. You just zerg from one group of enemies to the next. It's tedius, and not particularily difficult either. Unfortunately you have to go through the awful PVE to unlock abilities, which is simply not worth the effort.

      I regret purchasing the game. I put less than ten hours into it before uninstalling.

    14. Re:To Summarise.. by Dot.Com.CEO · · Score: 1

      I really like how you are insulting people who are disagreeing with your mindless bashing of a good game (you have not even seemed to have played, mind you), and the way you reply to reasonable comments saying that, inevitably, your vision will come true. Fact is, Guild Wars, at its current price point, is an immensely attractive game that doesn't require a monthly subscription. So, if in the future it changes from its "loss leader" statue (and the fact that you use loss leader means you have no idea what you are talking about), people will stop playing it. NOW people are enjoying it.

      --
      Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
    15. Re:To Summarise.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give it to me, then. ;)

    16. Re:To Summarise.. by some+guy+on+slashdot · · Score: 1

      Oh man, you have the most amazing insight into where this game is going! I'd just like to point out that the developers said right-out that the game is designed to avoid exactly this issue. Like, a year ago. (If you scroll down a bit, you'll see the question, "Am I required to buy new chapters?" They refer to "common areas" - these are the areas in the current scope of the game.)

      If you think the designers won't be able to get around this problem, I suggest you take a peek at the game and the server structure. It lends itself to a modular expansion system pretty directly.

    17. Re:To Summarise.. by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      Obviously you'd expect the designers to reply to a question like that with "yes, of course you'll be required to buy the upgrades and if you don't you'll soon feel the back of my hand across your face bitch! Now bend over and grab your ankles." Jesus. How stupid are you? If all your friends are off enjoying the new content and you're stuck in the "common area" playing with, well, yourself then obviously you're going to feel the need to buy the expansion pack, or you're going to quit and run around telling everyone who will listen that the game sucks ass and that's why you quit.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    18. Re:To Summarise.. by inkless1 · · Score: 1

      You have no idea what you're talking about, so you should stop trying. You've tried to compare GW to paid subscriptions and you clearly have no concept of the gameplay ArenaNet was going for. This isn't just EQuest of City of Heroes without a monthly fee, it's a totally different style.

      I've spent probably 10-15 hours just making another character and flopping around the tutorial area of the game. Playing in "just" the common area is quite fun and easy to get pick up games with. In fact, some of the best PUGs are from the newer sections of the game, so going back and replaying missions is insanely common. More than half the missions I've played were with people doing it their second or third time around (at least). Show me another MMO that can boast that.

      Sure, if all you're friends want to do is play in the expansion pack and all you want to do is play with your friends ... you'll need the expansion pack. DUH. And if you've gotten a group of friends who like it that much, it will be worth the money. If not, you're bound to get your original $50 back just by soloing if you want.

      Either way, at least you weren't wasting $12 a month just to get to that stage. For early adopters of the game under a monthly fee, they'd have spent $160 or more on the game, as opposed to the $40-$50 they have. So even when they buy the expansion for another $40-$50 in a few months, they're still many nickels over the normal MMO pricing scheme.

      Now, begone troll. If you can't bother with facts or math to back up your silly opinions, not sure why anyone should bother with you.

    19. Re:To Summarise.. by YomikoReadman · · Score: 1

      As someone who's played multiple MMOs, from UO to WoW and just about all of them inbetween, as well as Guild Wars, I have to say that a lot of folks parading GW as being the trolls here.

      So far, my GW experience has been more akin to Diablo 2, with the same quality and challenge of encounters as opposed to something that I'm likely to find in WoW, FFXI or EQ. As to the monthly fee being so horrible because you pay for it every day, let's look at exactly what that entails, shall we?

      I'll use WoW, my current MMO of choice, which has a month by month fee of $15 bucks a month. Average of 30 days in a month, which gives us a cost of *gasp* 50 CENTS A DAY. Yea, that's so horribly expensive, isn't it?

      Yes, GW will have free expansion content. However, looking at it, it's not terribly expansive, and at most is probably a weekend of content. WoW is getting to the point where the dev team is able to get a major content update out about every other month, which is what your monthly fees are paying for in part. GM staff is another thing that it pays for. Just for curiosity on the issue of Customer Service, have you tried getting any for Guild Wars? I have, and it sucks. It's down automatically through the website, and barely works. Not to mention that the most frequent problems I run into have zero help available, and any questions I send in regarding them are stonewalled.

      GW is nice and fun, but only for a few weeks. After that, it's a waste of HDD space.

      --
      I have no regrets, this is the only path.
      My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
    20. Re:To Summarise.. by inkless1 · · Score: 1

      So far, my GW experience has been more akin to Diablo 2

      Since they cost about the same, I don't see what's so wrong with that.

      I'll use WoW, my current MMO of choice, which has a month by month fee of $15 bucks a month. Average of 30 days in a month, which gives us a cost of *gasp* 50 CENTS A DAY. Yea, that's so horribly expensive, isn't it?

      Actually, it kinda is. And if you don't believe me, go buy a newspaper every single day, but only read it once or twice a week. Bet you start to notice and stop pretty quick.

      Sure, if you read that newspaper every single day - it's not a big deal. And if you play WoW every day ... all the power to you. But days add into months, and like I pointed out - end up costing a lot. At that rate you could be buying a new game almost every three or four months off the back of what you're spending on one. You only got a few weeks worth of fun out of Guild Wars? Oh, wow, yeah ... that's ... like ... horrible. Gee, I only got a few weeks worth of fun out of Half-Life 2, Doom 3, or San Andreas and oh about 90% of any game I buy. Guess every game out there sucks because it's not WoW.

      GM staff is another thing that it pays for. Just for curiosity on the issue of Customer Service, have you tried getting any for Guild Wars?

      Yes, and it's not great. But it was 1,000 times better than PlanetSide's that's for sure ... and I was paying monthly for that. For a monthly fee, I'd expect the same level of service as any other utility I pay for. Something goes wrong, I call someone, I get to talk to a human and they fix it. Not sit on my hands while they wait for servers to come back online.

      So it's not great, but Guild Wars service is about on par with most games that don't charge a monthly fee. It got me enough information to fix my own issues, which have been small and sparse since the game itself is pretty stable.

      You love WoW and GW didn't thrill you. Hey, that's fine. Like we've been saying, GW isn't really the same as the hardcore MMO ... so I'm not terribly surprised.

      But you're just proving my point. You paid for a title, had some fun with it and didn't like it for the long term. And you didn't have to pay a subscription to discover that. Go ArenaNet.

    21. Re:To Summarise.. by YomikoReadman · · Score: 1

      But you're just proving my point. You paid for a title, had some fun with it and didn't like it for the long term. And you didn't have to pay a subscription to discover that. Go ArenaNet.


      Personally, I look at it more like I do EQ. I bought EQ, played it for about the same amount of time as GW, and came to largely the same conclusion. I still didn't pay a monthly fee.

      As to the newspaper analogy, I don't quite see where you're going w/ that. Instead, let's compare it to some other forms of popular entertainment out there, like a movie. Even if you go to a matinee showing, you're still shelling out 3 bucks for 2 hours at most. To get that kind of cost with an MMO, then you'd have to spend an enormous amount of time every month simply not playing it, and while I can understand that some people don't have that kind of time, 10 hours a month will give you the same entertainment costs as going to see a single matinee movie at a second run theatre. If you want to compare it to a first run, prime time showing, now you're talking about 8 bucks, just for the ticket, spread across 2 hours.

      Ultimately, 15 bucks a month for something where you can easily spend 40 hours a month playing isn't the horrible deal that people make it out to be, especially when you compare other aspects of online games, such as customer service and content updates.

      Oh, and the reason I used WoW for the comparison as opposed to something like PlanteSide, which was crap, or FFXI, was that the gameplay is vastly closer to GW than anything else. Game content from Pre-Searing up to Ascension is very comparable to WoW from levels 1-59. After that, it's somewhat comparable to WoW at level 60. Ultimately, GW isn't for someone who is looking for a longterm MMO; there simply isn't enough there to keep someone there.

      As for the 'every game sucks because it's not WoW' comment, go stuff words in someone else's mouth. I never said that, or even implied it.

      So, ultimately, it's like you said, and I said. GW is most definitly on par with other games that don't charge extra for better content, better customer service, more consistent content updates, etc. It's the same as every other game out there which isn't an MMO, which is exactly what GW is not.
      --
      I have no regrets, this is the only path.
      My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
    22. Re:To Summarise.. by inkless1 · · Score: 1

      Personally, I look at it more like I do EQ. I bought EQ, played it for about the same amount of time as GW, and came to largely the same conclusion. I still didn't pay a monthly fee.

      Except that with EQ you had a deadline, and if you went over that deadline the clock would start running and you'd have to pay for it. GW doesn't have any such restrictions, like a normally priced game.

      Instead, let's compare it to some other forms of popular entertainment out there, like a movie.

      OK. Fine. Let's say it's $10 a ticket. Let's say you pay a monthly fee of $30 and you can see movies whenever you want. If you see thirty movies in a month, it's a fantastic deal. If you only see one a month, it sucks eggs. And you have to pay upfront, so you better know there are good movies you want to see that month (and the next, etc.)

      So sure, if you can put 40 hours a month into a $15 subscription, you're definately getting your money's worth. At 20 hours a month, you're getting closer to breaking even and if you get less than 10 hours a month - you're just throwing money away. That breaks down basically to people who play almost daily, almost weekly or sporadically.

      Like I said originally, the normal MMO pricing only makes sense for people who are hardcore MMO players. If you're playing an MMO 40 hours a month, you're in that group. Guild Wars makes sense for anyone who wants to try out the game ... period. So for QuantumG to state that Guild Wars is just as bad as any other MMO is flat out stupid and it's he that's being a troll, not us. At least you've played the game, he's just bashing it to get a response.

      As for the 'every game sucks because it's not WoW' comment, go stuff words in someone else's mouth. I never said that, or even implied it.

      So, ultimately, it's like you said, and I said. GW is most definitly on par with other games that don't charge extra for better content, better customer service, more consistent content updates, etc. It's the same as every other game out there which isn't an MMO, which is exactly what GW is not.

      Well, maybe that was unfair - but it definately sounded like you were bashing Guild Wars simply because it didn't have the longevity you found with WoW, and my point was that is true of nearly every game in it's price point ... which you seem to agree with.

      I don't really see how GW isn't an MMO ... and since you yourself said that out of the MMO's you've played ... WoW comes the closest to the gameplay and style, I'm not sure how you can say it either. Oh yeah, there a serious technical and design differences between the two ... but it's just different styles for different audiences. And GW's pricing model is part of that difference. ArenaNet realized that a monthly fee isn't for everyone. Personally, I've quit every MMO I've ever played largely because I didn't feel the fee was justified ... so I'd say they had a point.

    23. Re:To Summarise.. by CountZero117 · · Score: 1

      I agree, i have alot of friends who won't play cause they think it's only for hardcore PVP people. But really, you could play it and never even PVP and have plenty of fun.

  3. yaya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they haven't offered *any* pay-expansions yet - all updates have been free - that's a good thing - except for the greenfarming.....

  4. Good so far. We'll see. by Somatic · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I was fascinated when I first heard how well Guild Wars was doing. They seemed to have broken the MMOG pricing model wide open; this is not the first article that marked their success.

    It still hasn't been tested by their expansion model, though. For the game to survive long term, they need to sell those expansions, and they need to keep doing it for years.

    I'm skeptical whether that will work or not, but we'll see. I'm rooting for them, and not because I play the game (I don't), and not because I think this model is any better than the subscription model (I'm on the fence about that). I'm rooting them because I love MMOGs, live them, and anything that shakes up the MMOG paradigm is a good thing. The market has begun to stagnate as it moves closer and closer to Hollywood budgets.

    This pricing model has the potential to allow more newcomers in the field, if it works. Not everyone is a MMOG nut like me, tossing out dollars for subscriptions without even thinking about it. I think a large part of the market is still scared of subscriptions. If this pricing model reaches those people, the whole industry benefits.

    If the allmighty dollar is going to dominate this market just like it does everything else, anything that attracts more allmighty dollars is a good thing-- there's a higher chance some of it will reach a good developer.

    We'll see.

    --
    My script don't crash! She crashes, you crashed her!
    1. Re:Good so far. We'll see. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I seriously don't understand why people keep calling Guild Wars an MMO game.

      It's Diablo 2 with graphical chat rooms. Period. You can only consider Guild Wars an MMO if you consider Diablo 2 an MMO.

      I do not.

  5. It could be worse by Prien715 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    At the same time, superior vigor I believe ups your HP like 8 vs a major rune of vigor.

    What I like about GW is that the "best" weapons/armor/etc while expensive, are not horribly overpowering vs the regular stuff.

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    1. Re:It could be worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Superior vigor is +9 over major vigor. (30, 41, 50 in order.)

  6. Missing Link to article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't type I have no hands

  7. Oooo... by WWWWolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can you imagine it? People are still playing a game that was released a whole six months ago? Unprecedented! Completely unheard of! Truly, a landmark in history of Internet gaming!

    I don't have objections to Guild Wars or such, just happy that they're building a strong community. Yet, I find it a bit odd that in general, nowadays, some people might consider it weird to play a game that was released more than 2 months ago. Are we really heading to "throwaway entertainment" culture in video games too, or what?

    Do call me back when Guild War reaches five-year limit though, like Neverwinter Nights will in next summer, still at the moment as lively as ever =)

  8. GW -- reasons for long-term success by Morgaine · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I'm skeptical whether that will work or not, but we'll see. I'm rooting for them, and not because I play the game (I don't)

    Try it briefly, and you'll see why they are extremely likely to succeed. There are five key reasons why I think it's almost guaranteed, by design:

    • They are creating an ever-growing CAPTIVE audience, unlike any other MMOG-type game. The audience is captive because of the lack of monthly subscription costs. After all, once you've purchased the extremely cheap game pack (just 18 UK pounds from play.com), why would you delete it? You're captive for good (in principle), even if you don't play it, as you'll still have GW announcements on your mental radar. In marketting terms, that's a goldmine.

    • They have utterly eradicated all the horrors that plague more conventional MMOGs, like kill stealing, camping, camp stealing, xp grinding, LFG waiting, getting mobs trained on you, and many others. This makes people who have experienced those problems before appreciate GW for eternity.

    • They are unique in providing a game which supports the solo gamer totally brilliantly (the henchmen concept is terrific), and the casual gamer as well (no LFG timesink because of henchies, and a trillion short but rewarding quests to do). Yet somehow, ie. through the sheer brilliance of the design, they've managed to make it equally excellent for team players, and for the non-casual hardcore. It's hard not to be impressed.

    • The design of the game is such that there is a MINISCULE loading on servers. (It's almost tempting to call it a P2P game mediated through a central transport proxy.) As a result, their server requirements must be massively less than for any conventional MMOG, which means that their no-subscription business model isn't sucked dry by huge platform hardware, admin, and support costs. This approach is wonderfully scalable both from a technical and a business perspective. (I work in platform scaling, so I know a scalable design when I see it.)

    • And finally, the hardcore element. It's probably fair to say that Guild Wars is one of the hardest online games in existence if you want it to be, but very easy if you don't. In other words, if you decide to fully assimilate and understand the hundreds of skills of your primary and secondary profession and how they interact with and how they counter those of your opponents then the game is extremely challanging.

      It's mind-bogglingly complex to be fully aware of the professions of those you are fighting and what skills they are using, to counter them appropriately, while at the same time managing your energy reserve, and looking out for your team. This is nothing like a straight turns-based MMOG like EQ, where once you engage combat, the outcome is largely decided as long as you don't do something dumb. GW is fast and furious --- no tank taunt to trivialize the gaming in PvE, and effective foe AI so that the healer always gets it first, just like human players do.

      If you've absorbed the above, you'll realize that PvP in Guild Wars is either fantastically brilliant (if you like PvP) or appallingly dreadful (if you're a PvE-only fan), because GW's PvP is trully player-skill-based: ie. the best man/woman wins, regardless of equipment. This is why the Koreans own GW's PvP space --- they work hard to understand the game, and it's their human skill/experience as players that makes them use the in-game skills so devastatingly. (America comes a beleagered and very battered second, and the chewed up and splattered remains of Europe a very distant third.)

    In summary, Guild Wars can't fail, not by rights anyway. It will fail only if not enough people hear about it, or if its totally excellent developers leave the company. (No, I don't work there, I'm just an appreciative player, completed it on main.) :-))
    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
    1. Re:GW -- reasons for long-term success by @madeus · · Score: 1

      If you've absorbed the above, you'll realize that PvP in Guild Wars is either fantastically brilliant (if you like PvP) or appallingly dreadful (if you're a PvE-only fan), because GW's PvP is trully player-skill-based: ie. the best man/woman wins, regardless of equipment. This is why the Koreans own GW's PvP space --- they work hard to understand the game, and it's their human skill/experience as players that makes them use the in-game skills so devastatingly. (America comes a beleaguered and very battered second, and the chewed up and splattered remains of Europe a very distant

      Not that people from Asia aren't freakishly intelligent super beings (which they are), I think this has as much to do with the same reason big countries (i.e. US, Russia, China) dominate the Olympics - there are just a wider pool of contestants, so they are bound to have better players. This would follow as GW has a much bigger following in Korea than in the US, and a far bigger following in the US than Europe.

      That said, there is an enormous difference between say L2 players in Korea and in the US/EU in that the seem to have less jerks and grief'ers (they are well known for being more co-operative and less abusive to each other in game and don't usually go around ganking people just to piss them off which is like a #1 sport on other servers, especially US servers), so perhaps you are on to something.

    2. Re:GW -- reasons for long-term success by Number13 · · Score: 1

      Well said. Small disgression: Korean teams only feared by those who don't know any better. I honestly believe the top tier American teams are equal to the top tier Korean teams, and that there's more good American teams than good Korean teams. However, for whatever reason, Korean noobs beat American noobs: I suspect because a Korean team's members are all sitting in an internet cafe together with an easy line of communication. Oddly enough, euro-teams do tend to suck. There are good European players, I find the that the best tend to play along side Americans on American teams.

    3. Re:GW -- reasons for long-term success by Sevtor · · Score: 1
      This is why the Koreans own GW's PvP space --- they work hard to understand the game, and it's their human skill/experience as players that makes them use the in-game skills so devastatingly. (America comes a beleagered and very battered second, and the chewed up and splattered remains of Europe a very distant third.)

      While I agree with most of what you said, I have to disagree with the small excerpt above. If you check the Guild Wars ladder http://ladder.guildwars.com/ you'll see that Korea, if anything, is underrepresented on the first page. War Machine [War] and [KOR] were two of the top Korean guilds when the game released in April and have been conspicuously absent since the ladder reset last week. Incidentally, I'm a co-founder and officer of Idiot Savants (we're on the first page), and one of the few guilds that's existed since the game launched.

      Europe's place at the top took most of us by surprise- in game they're known to have a hard time holding the Hall of Heroes (a round the clock tournament that culminates in a 2v1 king of the hill fight) and keeping favor (which opens the way to some of the high end PVE content). It's encouraging to see a large number of European guilds doing well- a week ago I had the impression that Europe would be a pushover division in the playoffs (kind of like the NL West in Baseball). I'm happy to say it looks like I was wrong.

      The new skill changes have been good almost across the board. It was frustrating waiting for months without any skill changes to obviously broken mechanics, but when the devs finally acted they did a good job. The alpha testers I know say that the lead skill designer, Izzy, had his hands tied for a long time, but that he really knows his stuff. The devs have announced that there will not be any any skill changes during the ladder season (until February) unless an obvious bug is discovered (like Dust Trap doing 2x the listed damage). That's a good move in my eyes, after the fiasco they caused when they rebalanced skills in the middle of one of their previous tournaments, in essence neutering one team's(KOR) build without warning.

      In all, I've gotten my money's worth many times over, and it looks like my guild will have a spot in the regional playoffs (and hopefully the finals in Taiwan). While the PvE no longer has my interest, at one time it did and it deserves a lot of praise. Neither part of the game (PvE or PvP) feels "tacked-on". The instanced maps do hurt the community aspect of the game somewhat- you eliminate griefers, kill-stealers, and PKers, but you also eliminate a good deal of tension and happenstance. It can be hard to find the community in-game. I found my niche by lurking, and eventually moderating, at some of the larger fansites, which is also how I met many of my current guildmates.

      Hopefully you'll see us in Taiwan, and let's hope that the future expansions won't ruin the decent balance it's taken nearly six months to achieve.

    4. Re:GW -- reasons for long-term success by skreeech · · Score: 1

      The instanced maps do hurt the community aspect of the game somewhat- you eliminate griefers, kill-stealers, and PKers, but you also eliminate a good deal of tension and happenstance. It can be hard to find the community in-game.

      I agree with this. Instancing is something I don't like a lot in my games. Although without instancing guild wars would not work the same at all. I would be interested to see someone make competative game like guildwars but not relient on instancing.

      --
      [20:36] wwwdot/.dotorg
  9. MMORPG? by Phantasmo · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've been playing Guild Wars since May and I love every aspect of it.

    However, I'm disappointed that we've gone from calling it a CORPG to an MMORPG. People buy this game expecting "WoW for Free!" when they should be thinking "Diablo Done Right."

    If you're looking for a fun, skill-based, multiplayer RPG then Guild Wars is the best you'll find. If you're looking for something that you can play every single day/night, find an active guild that plays a lot of PvP.

    Oh yeah, and get your free trial. Don't worry about entering a serial number.

    --

    The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
    1. Re:MMORPG? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alas, it does require a "Product Serial Number".

    2. Re:MMORPG? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad not entering a serial number doesn't work...I would love a free trial

  10. I enjoy guild wars by rynix · · Score: 1

    As well as the fact that there is no Monthly fee. I am what you call the casual gamer. Play couple times a month for a couple hours. And its still fun to play with friends that play 3 -4 times a week.

    But for some more free fun check out the url under my user name.

    --
    http://logd.programgeeks.net/referral.php?r=lordva der