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Yahoo and Microsoft to Merge Instant Messengers
Primotech writes "Betanews has word that Microsoft and Yahoo plan to link their respective IM clients again so that users of both can communicate with each other on one, shared network. Facing threats from third-party applications, like Trillian and Skype, the two tech giants will claim 44% of the instant messaging market, analysts predict. They will also go head to head together with the biggest competitor, AOL."
I could care less , whatever network things use , its all Transparent to me cause i use Gaim
http://gaim-vv.sourceforge.net/
LATEST NEWS:
Oct 07, 2005 - Forward potr of gaim-vv 1.2.0 to gaim cvs head is working. I would like to clarify that gaim-vv isn't completely dead, we're working on merging with gaim. There will be no further gaim-vv releases, as code will be added to the main gaim program.
For those who don't know gaim-vv was a friendly fork to get stuff like webcams working - last release allowed users to view webcams from MSN, yahoo
The Singularity is closer than you think
Quant
It's a version of the GAIM source designed to work within the framework of MacOSX. It will integrate with your address book, supports MSN/Yahoo/ICQ/Bonjour/AIM, and is generally pretty darn spiffy.
I haven't had any of the problems I've had with other clients. It's the closest I've come to Kopete on MacOSX, plus it has some of the problems of Kopete fixed.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Compete in features you offer in your IM clients, but for heavens sake unify the networks.
That's a good point, but there's a problem. Microsoft and Yahoo aren't going to agree upon an open standard for their merged IM protocol (assuming it is a merged protocol they're talking about and not a trillian-type deal). They will then use their closed protocol to work on shutting out non-Microsoft-Yahoo approved clients (i.e. every other client not made by the two companies). If everyone agreed to only use one IM protocol, then it's going to have to be a closed standard because (based on past performance), Microsoft isn't willing to agree on an open standard, at least not for it's IM program. They will be able to use that to make it more difficult for the competition, the only competition they'll allow are Microsoft approved(TM) competitors (yup, if Microsoft has control of the standard they'll be able to decide who compete's with them) and keep changing the protocol in an attempt to lock-out non-approved competitors. And Microsoft's dislike for the GPL ensures they won't approve any GPL clients to use their protocol.
In the past both Yahoo and Microsoft have shown a habit of locking out third party clients, so this combination makes sense for them.
If Microsoft and Yahoo and everyone else were willing to agree on an open standard for IM communication, then that would be great and I'd whole heartedly support it. I just can't see Microsoft doing that anytime soon.
There is chat, and then there is chat in a specific context. MSN is fine for chatting with my co-workers, but Yahoo is better for chatting if I am trying get a date. There is no one-purpose-serves-all protocal.. sorry. Bad Idea... I can't wait to see what picks up the slack.
But I hate the fact that Yahoo seems to not want to develop for Mac OS X anymore.
I spoke to an engineer from Yahoo a couple months ago and asked him about that. He couldn't give me any details, but did say that despite appearances Yahoo is actually very interested in the Mac platform, and that this is the reason they acquired Konfabulator - they weren't interested in the software, they just wanted to hire Mac developers to work on exactly this sort of thing.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
A brief and largely incorrect summary of the current state of things:
MS Messenger: Ships standard on all Windows PC's. Pops up every five minutes asking you if you would like to sign up for service. Causes your computer to explode if you try to uninstall it, or indeed just try to get it to shut up. The fact that this still isn't the #1 instant messaging client should tell you something. I have the most luck with voice chat through firewalls on Messenger.
Aim: Comes automatically with AOL, or you can download it free from aol.com. Also comes free with LOTS and LOTS of ads. Ads pop up on your screen. Ads are built into your client. Smart a$$ movie executives send you ads directly. Sex chatbots try to lure you into filthyness before posting the transcript on Fark. Everyone's personal icon is loud, animated, and obnoxious. In short, AIM is a lot like the internet. And like the internet, nearly everyone uses AIM.
ICQ: Still the greatest communications medium of all time. Really. Greatest ever. (There, I said what you wanted Mr. 3098014563. Now give me my family back, like in the deal.)
Yahoo: No really, Yahoo has a chat medium. I was shocked too. Isn't Yahoo just adorable sometimes? On a side note, I've had better luck getting webcams through firewalls over Yahoo. This leads to great situations where I'm videoconferencing with someone over Yahoo, but the audio stream is in MSN and the chat is happening in Jabber.
Google Chat: Google chat is based on Jabber, the open source next-generation world dominating chat protocol of the fut-- hey, why are you laughing? No seriously, Jabber, which can communicate with AIM and MSN through... Yes it says so on the box. No, I don't care if almost never works. Ok, fine, Jabber, which can sometimes communicate with AIM and MSN through server-side plug ins, is the basis for Google Chat. Unlike all of the other protocols Jabber is an encrypted medium, meaning that even the server doesn't know what is being said. psi is the jabber client of choice, though there are a lot out there. It's also the only reason to buy Trillian Pro. What was that about Google Chat again?
Now if I remember correctly, AIM, as a condition of its merger with Time Warner was required to open its chat network to everyone. It then proceeded to shut out all 3rd party clients and other protocols that had the nerve to try and connect with it. MSN tried to connect to AOL without permission, but kept refusing 3rd party clients that tried to connect to it. We thought Yahoo was shutting out 3rd party clients as well, but it turns out they just broke their system a few times. Oops. Jabber will sleep with anyone, and Jabber servers will sleep with other Jabber servers. Jabber servers will even sleep with AOL and MSN, but only if they're really happy or really drunk. ICQ... I refuse to say anything about ICQ on the grounds that ICQ users are even more insane than Apple users.
All of this is very close to e-mail, circa 1992... Back when AOL, Compuserve, and all of the rest of the providers thought that locking their users into their system would keep the most people. Then AOL bought them all, and the whole thing seemed kind of moot.
The ______ Agenda
I seem to remember something about the FCC making interoperability a requirement for AOL based on some agreement many years ago. Of course they never did anything about it. The MS/Yahoo news isn't about opening up the system it's consolodation.
Thank god these companies were not involved in the early development of the internet or... well we just wouldn't have an "internet". We'd have a collection of online fiefdoms that were as useful and innovative as Microsoft Bob.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
At the moment you need to get permission from them first to interoperate (federate) with their server. According to the developer faq:
4. What other communication services will you federate with?
We plan to support open server-to-server federation. We do believe, however, that it is important to have the safeguards in place to ensure that we maintain a safe and reliable service that protects user privacy and blocks spam and other abuses. We are using the federation opportunity with EarthLink, Sipphone and other partners to develop a set of best practices by which all members of the federated network can work together to ensure that we protect our users while maximizing the reach of the network. We are also eager to hear from other people in the industry about how best to build a federation model that is open, scalable, and ensures best-in-class user experiences. If you have thoughts on federation or suggestions for how we can better enable open communications, please share them with us at the Google Talk Interoperability Google Group.
5. I am a communications service provider and want to federate with the Google Talk service. How do I proceed?
Please contact us at federation@google.com.
Ya know... I used to use the MSN Messenger client exclusively, then because of a need to communicate with one person who used Yahoo!, I tried Trillian. HOLY HECK.
With the choice of skins and what not, what a relief. For me the MSN interface has just become this weirdly bloated thing.
Trillian though... what a great piece of software IMHO. And best of all (unlike Messenger), it doesn't create those competely bogus hooks into OE that prevent you from closing the app because it's dependent on the other. Bah.
Running 'Nix is like owning a Lightsaber. It's "a more elegant weapon for a more civilized time."
Well, in Japan MSN Messenger is far away the most popular, followed by Yahoo messenger. Merging the two together will easily give them close to 90% of the market here.
I have a Yahoo account, and I've never received spam from Yahoo.
The other steps you mention (creating an account and having to log in) are standard for any service. How is Yahoo different?
Joe Beda, a Google Talk developer, posted his response to this question. If you're lazy and don't want to read the whole thing, they're working on it. Blog posts from other Google developers say the main reason is trying to get decent spam prevention, and the fact that they wrote their server from scratch, so s2s support hasn't even been written yet. Joe's post is as follows, from his website eightypercent.net:
There have been a lot of questions around Google's approach to federation -- both in the comments on this blog and in other forums (the jdev list, slashdot, etc). I apologize for the delay in responding to these questions head on.
We've updated our FAQ to clarify some changes. To save everyone having to look it up in the Google cache, here is the before:
We look forward to federating with any service provider who shares our belief in enabling user choice and open communications. We do believe, however, that it is important to balance openness with ensuring that we maintain a safe and reliable service that protects user privacy and blocks spam and other abuses. We are using the federation opportunity with EarthLink and Sipphone to develop a set of guidelines by which all members of the federated network can work together to ensure that we protect our users while maximizing the reach of the network. [...]
Here is the new text (changes in red):
We plan to support open server-to-server federation. We do believe, however, that it is important to have the safeguards in place to ensure that we maintain a safe and reliable service that protects user privacy and blocks spam and other abuses. We are using the federation opportunity with EarthLink, Sipphone and other partners to develop a set of best practices by which all members of the federated network can work together to ensure that we protect our users while maximizing the reach of the network. [...]
On top of that, one of my fellow Google Talk developers, Gary Burd, has introduced himself to the Jabber developer mailing list. You can read his first post here.
I, personally, look forward to a long and fruitful partnership between Google and the Jabber community.
"Joy is contagious," he said, peering into the microscope.
I think you're mixing topics a bit here:
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
Actually, AOL did do something about it. They opened up the TOC AIM protocol. It has less features and is generally kind of buggier. But they did "open up" in some sense.
Whilst I agree, hating the lack of offline messages - likewise with MSN, when was the last time you used AIM? I've used both audio and video on it for a long long time now.
Have a look about half way down this page
http://www.word-detective.com/061405.html
Basically, the sarcasm that the "could care less" form uses, implies the missing negative - probably shouldn't be used online given sarcasm is harder to do in written text.
The phrase supposedly started in America a few decades ago, but it's spread to the rest of the world by now. The etymology isn't entirely clear (some people think it could've been intended to be sarcastic, or that it was misread in print), but it's probably the simplest one -- it's the same reason people say 'case and point' and 'for all intensive purposes' and 'supposively'. People say it so often that eventually some of them become ignorant of the actual meaning and just repeat it however.
I don't think most people actually intend to say it incorrectly but, in my experience, they also refuse to change when they are told that it's wrong. I guess they just... couldn't... care less....
Yes, but Live Communicator isn't a consumer product, it's specifically designed for Corporates, where the problem of interoperability is a BIG issue.
Live Communicator (the IM client) needs Live Communicator Server, plus Active Directory, with either Exchange, or a Schema change to the AD.
Live Communicator Server is the gateway to the external IM networks - the client has no ability to connect to Yahoo!/AIM/ICQ directly.
It's a huge undertaking for a Corporate to install it, and most Corporates are wary of IM in the first instance, and feel the benefits are not yet clear (I don't agree with this, being a Business Chat/IM evangelist).
Sorry, to waffle on, but just wanted to nip the 'Live Communicator does this already' argument in the bud.
-Jar.
Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
at least your contact/buddy list is stored server side. anyway, heres an answer,
http://thekonst.net/centericq
ssh home when you want it.
if you want to keep it running, see http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/screen.html
also see http://gaim.sf.net/
gaims chat logs can simply be copied into eachother since each "conversation" is a seperate file.
its probably runs on all the platforms you need (the latest always compiles out of the box on os x with fink)
there are a few remote file shares you can use, some of which work over ssh, and thus your prefs/logs etc
can be kept with them. or you can simply script your client to sync whenever it starts / stops / whenever,
which would thus be transparent (and probably faster with something like rsync)
so anyway, yea, its sad that in this day and age, we dont have software working together much, but at least
you can work around it. centericq is a pretty simple way to not have to worry about any of it, all you need
is ssh. thus the beuty of remote apps. if you dont like centericqs interface, check out http://bitlbee.org/
to use an irc client instead.
As far as I know, MSN is more popular in Europe and AIM/Yahoo more popular in the states
QQ is a product produced by Tencent, Inc, located in Shenzhen, China. The south african website to which the parent linked seems to be some third party attempt to get people in south africa to use QQ's english client. Here's the real download website http://im.qq.com/ and an english about page for those who don't read chinese. http://www.tencent.com/about/about_e.shtml