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New Hopes From Sun's Idea Factory

Posted by Hemos on from the rebirth-coming? dept.

UltimaGuy writes "While it's way too soon to say Sun is back on track, the return of Bechtolsheim, aggressive improvements in products and a healthy dose of humility among Sun's executives mean the troubled company and its investors have more cause for optimism than they've had in years." Of course, Sun's problems are still out there - dealing with projects like Geronimo for some of their base infrastructure, and of course other companies promoting Linux as the solution.

41 of 122 comments (clear)

  1. Back On Track? by matr0x_x · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What determines when a company is "Back On Track"? In my opinion Sun was doing things right months ago... yet if you look at their stock (what really matters to a company) you'd never know it!

    --
    LINUX ONLINE POKER: Linux Poker
    1. Re:Back On Track? by jamesgamble · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A good stock price and progressive growth can mean a company is "back" to investors. Good support of its user base and new products and services help to show users that a company is "back". I think the second area is where Sun is/was lacking, and I believe that's what this article was making reference to. :)

    2. Re:Back On Track? by twiddlingbits · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, positive cash flow, debt reduction and PROFITS, as well as MANAGED growth mean a company is back on track to investors. You can have great growth and lousy financials, or vice versa so one area alone does not mean a company is "back". There are several different theories and models to determine based on the financials what the "target" stock price should be fora firm with given performance in a specific market. A "good stock price" is a result of the investors willing to buy/sell at higher prices due to thier models (or gut feeling) telling them the data indicates the price will increase due to the firm making (more) profits, the market growing, or the firm capturing more market share. Ideally, all of these occur at once and the stock "breaks-out" and the price goes up rapidly.

  2. Hardware by xerid · · Score: 2, Funny
    "and of course other companies promoting Linux as the solution"


    I thought that Sun was a hardware company?
    1. Re:Hardware by ForumTroll · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You thought wrong. It's very clear to anyone with any knowledge of the subject that they offer much more than just hardware. I'm not quite sure why you feel that a company needs to be a "hardware" company or a "software" company as plenty of companies can do both...

      --
      "A Lisp programmer knows the value of everything, but the cost of nothing." - Alan Perlis
    2. Re:Hardware by spif · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They want to be a solutions provider - hardware, software and support. But their Kool-Aid is getting pretty stale. Their own platforms (Solaris and SPARC) are increasingly viewed as legacy stuff.

      They need to reinvent themselves as an end-to-end solutions provider for Linux and dump (or at least really heavily de-emphasize) the rest. Forget about OpenSolaris - salvage what little is still worth anything in Solaris, GPL it and help integrate it into Linux. Stop designing, making and selling new SPARC hardware - give the platform to Fujitsu or Toshiba or whoever is stupid enough to want it. Focus entirely on making the best AMD64-based servers money can buy. Become the new high end of the Linux server market. Be the vendor that can sell you the complete package. Have support techs that know more about Red Hat than Red Hat.

      But it won't happen, or it'll happen too little too late, because they have too much money, pride and identity invested in the legacy crap. What a waste.

      --
      fnord.
    3. Re:Hardware by Markus_UW · · Score: 5, Informative

      AFAIK, the banks and telecom companies are still buying mad quantities of Solaris on SPARC. Why in their right minds, would sun switch their primary platform, and thus alienate all their loyal customers, who would then be put in the position of having to choose a new platform (which might or might not be provided by Sun).

      Plus sun has some pretty revolutionary SPARC stuff coming out in the near future, Niagara and Rock being the two best examples. I have a funny feeling SPARC is here to stay for quite some time.

      Plus did I mention that sun has about 40% of the Unix server market, which if I'm not mistaken is about four times the size of the Linux server market?

    4. Re:Hardware by linguae · · Score: 5, Insightful
      They need to reinvent themselves as an end-to-end solutions provider for Linux and dump (or at least really heavily de-emphasize) the rest. Forget about OpenSolaris - salvage what little is still worth anything in Solaris, GPL it and help integrate it into Linux. Stop designing, making and selling new SPARC hardware - give the platform to Fujitsu or Toshiba or whoever is stupid enough to want it. Focus entirely on making the best AMD64-based servers money can buy. Become the new high end of the Linux server market. Be the vendor that can sell you the complete package. Have support techs that know more about Red Hat than Red Hat.

      Great, we'll just lose some more operating system and (especially) platform diversity. OpenSolaris is the best thing that can happen to Solaris, and I would like to see more competition between Solaris, Linux, and BSD (because competition leads to more innovation between the three OSes). There are many nice things and advantages to the Solaris platform that Linux could learn from. Besides, Solaris is a real Unix (based off AT&T Unix System V), whereas Linux is just a clone. Why would Sun drop something based on the real thing for an imitation? If Sun were to drop anything, I'd rather Sun adopt Plan 9 rather than Linux. At least Plan 9 is unique and different.

      And with the SPARC platform, why would Sun drop that elegant platform for the inferior x86-64 architecture? (Don't get me wrong, I like the AMD64 a lot, but it is still based on that hideous x86 architecture, and the SPARC is much better designed). Over the past few years, we have lost a few well-designed platforms (Alpha, PA-RISC, PowerPC) to the x86, and the SPARC is the last holdout. I do not want to see an x86 monopoly on computing, but it looks like were heading for that. And when we're stuck with the x86 as our only platform, then innovation will slow down, and we might not see better platforms again.

      Sun should continue what it has been doing; be a Unix company selling a Unix variant and workstations, and promoting Java (let's not forget that important part of Sun). We don't need another Linux PC manufacturer. If Sun degenerated to just selling Linux PCs, then Sun would die faster than you can say a BSD or Apple troll.

    5. Re:Hardware by bersl2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Over the past few years, we have lost a few well-designed platforms (Alpha, PA-RISC, PowerPC) to the x86

      Who said POWER is dead? Netcraft?

      Just because Apple drops PPC doesn't mean that the architecture is dead or dying.

    6. Re:Hardware by Wiz · · Score: 3, Informative
      Plus did I mention that sun has about 40% of the Unix server market, which if I'm not mistaken is about four times the size of the Linux server market?


      Then you need to put down the kool-aid....

      IBM was the leader in worldwide Unix server revenue with 31% share, while HP and Sun were statistically tied for the number two position, with 30.0% and 29.5% share, respectively.

      The Linux market was $1.4 billion. Sun have 29.5% of a $4.3 billion market, which if my maths serves me correct is less than the Linux market.

      As for why switch from SPARC? Price/performance is the main thing. Being able to use any x86 manufactuer with Linux is more flexible than Sun (or Fuji at a push) as a SPARC supplier. Niagara would be good for quiet web servers, but for any sort of real performance it isn't going to be there yet. Rock maybe more interesting, but that is sometime away yet. Sun's sales are currently declining too (and have done for a few years), so it isn't like SPARC is selling that well.
    7. Re:Hardware by shmlco · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Forgive me, but that's a dumb solution. They're well known in the high-end market, and they're pretty busy mixing up new batches of Kool-Aid.

      Your solution, however, would end up positioning them as yet another Linux X86 harware integrator in a commodity market, with little or no competitive advantage. And as much as Linux would like to think it's up to Solaris standards... it's not.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    8. Re:Hardware by linguae · · Score: 2, Insightful
      What meaning does this statement have at the end of the day ? Why do I care about an operating system's pedigree ? Either it does what I want, or it does not. In fact, it seems pretty silly to market something solely on the basis that it still has ten year old bits of code floating around in it.

      Solaris could do anything and everything that Linux could do. Why would Sun switch from Solaris to Linux if Solaris can do everything that Linux can do?

      "unique and different" are two words which describe Microsoft. I wonder why their way of doing things appeal to you ? It may have escaped you that people want things that are standard and interoperable. I want to choose between vendors or open source products that just work. I don't want to see the wheel re-invented each go-round.

      You should read more about Plan 9. Plan 9 isn't a reinvention of the wheel; it is something completely different. And, yes, interoperatability is quite possible with Plan 9 (even though I must admit that Plan 9 is currently a research OS, so the applications are a bit lacking). I was just using Plan 9 as an example; if I were a corporation dropping my Unix product, I would rather go one step above the competition (Plan 9) rather than a sell a complete clone of something that I have already sold (Linux).

      The term "better designed" means nothing. Will it allow me to do my job better, or not ? Sure, x86 is a heap of shit. But if it performs better, why should I care ?

      Using a chip that is better designed for your purposes may get you more "miles per gallon" for your job. The SPARC may fit your needs if you want a very powerful workstation, the x86 may fit your needs if you want a PC. That's up to the customer to decide.

      There is no such thing as too much competition. Sun's hardware is among the best there is.

      You're right, there is no such thing as too much competition. However, I still believe that Sun is better off selling SPARC machines with Solaris than x86 machines with Linux. I have a feeling that Dell would just kill Sun if Sun made that move.

  3. I dunno... by BJZQ8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I dunno if I'd count jumping on the Linux/Open Source bandwagon "back on track" or not...I'd like to see some new ideas from them, but I haven't seen anything original yet, besides, perhaps, using AMD in a big way.

    1. Re:I dunno... by ForumTroll · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Considering how long Sun has been working with Linux and how much source code they've released to the Open Source community I'd hardly classify them as "jumping on the bandwagon". There are few companies that give back as much to the community as Sun and yet they continue to do so even with hoards of people like you demanding more.

      Would you prefer companies not "jump on the bandwagon" and just ignore Linux all together?

      --
      "A Lisp programmer knows the value of everything, but the cost of nothing." - Alan Perlis
    2. Re:I dunno... by greg_barton · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I dunno if I'd count jumping on the Linux/Open Source bandwagon "back on track" or not...

      This may be a bit simplistic, but I've got some recent experience navigating between the two. I just built my new dual core Athlon X2 system this weekend. Tried out Solaris 10 on it first. Took about 4 hours to install. Tried out the scimark java benchmark and was quite underwhelmed with a 263 composite score. Installed Gentoo 2005.1, compiling kde and the blackdown-jdk packages. Took about 2 hours. Scimark composite score: 519. Yes, almost twice as fast. Tried the Sun 1.5 JVM, just to compare apples with apples: composite score of 569, well over double of solaris.

      So I know what I'm going to use...

  4. I think that the StorageTek acquisition was a by multiplexo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    good thing, especially since Sun is not going to fuck with StorageTek, they're going to run it as a separate division of the company and start selling StorageTek storage products with Sun servers and close out Sun's line of storage products (which were just rebranded from Hitachi and other vendors anyway). Sun's storage offerings were overpriced and underwhelming, with StorageTek in house they have a good thing becuase regardless of what platform wins out in the future (Linux, Solaris, Solaris x86, Windoze, Plan 9) people are going to need lots and lots of storage space for their pr0n, warez and MP3, oops, I mean corporate data. Now if Sun can only get rid of the shit ugly purple and grey color scheme they have on the Sparc boxen they might be able to stage a huge comeback.

    --
    cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
  5. Humility and Sun in the same sentence? by skitheboat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Does this include Scott McNealy or has he hired a CHO (Chief Humility Officer) to be humble for him? Maybe I need to start following Sun again, I gave them up for dead a couple of years ago.

  6. Re:They already support linux by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't forget: they're also supporting Windows on their x86 hardware.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  7. Re:Thank the DoD by twiddlingbits · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Really? The HUGE amount of Sun servers I've seen in Corp. Data Centers don't count? If the DoD props up anyone it is Silicon Graphics. Talk about proprietary everything.

  8. Re:Thank the DoD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm pretty sure the DoD singlehandedly props up Sun.

    Then you'd be wrong. Sun's biggest customers (and thus their bread and butter) are the Telecom companies. Sun makes no secret of this.

    As a developer I find Sun/Solaris a complete paint-in-the-ass to work with.

    Really?

    Impossible to find binary versions for most packages

    I assume you're referring to the Open Source Software that Sun Freeware provides binaries for, and not the commercial software? Because I can't say I see much Solaris software in binary form.

    endless back-and-forth dealing with version dependencies

    You mean patch levels? Bah, that's easy. Sun tells you which patches you need for a package up front, then provides you with all of them. Try keeping an RPM system up to date sometime. Now THAT is pain and anguish.

    and ordering a server that didn't come with a CD drive, DVD drive or video card?

    Whoever ordered that server must have explicitly not wanted a drive. AFAIK, all Sun servers have CD or DVD drives by default. Otherwise you'd have a hard time installing all that software that Sun sends with the machine.

    Then the admins blindly install Sun updates and we all get to be Sun's gunieapigs learning side-effects.

    This differs from MSCEs, how again?

  9. Geronimo info by millette · · Score: 3, Informative

    Maybe we want to know more about Geronimo before deciding to download it.

    1. Re:Geronimo info by mparaz · · Score: 2, Informative

      IBM offers support for Geronimo. That's competition on the services front. They are even hosting a contest on Sourceforge.

  10. SUN is setting.... by katorga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm a long time Sun user from sparc1 thru my current F15s, and I think its over. Sun is starting the long decline so familiar to the workstation vendors. Think HP PA-RISC and SGI. Basically, I bought SUN to stay 5 years ahead of the PC technology curve.

    Sadly, Sun could not maintain the technology lead and as they move to x86 servers, the argument that low cost x86 systems are 90% as good for half the price starts to be felt. I pay a premium to be ahead of the curve.

    OSS is going to canibalize Sun on the software side unless they become a services and integration company of OSS stacks.

    1. Re:SUN is setting.... by Zemplar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Who cares about some "PC technology curve"?

      What really is important is the performance, power consumption, and price at which you can accomplish your computing goals. The Operton's have a great balance of all three factors and Sun is packaging, yes PACKAGING, some great hardware at a great price and very low power consumption in their x86 line. Who really cares if Sun has the chip designed/made from scratch when at the end of the day all you really should care about is results and not who made your machine so you can brag about it.

      If you really think you need Sparc, you could likely double your power by using Sun's high-quality x86 products in place, such as their amazing quad dual-core Opteron V40z servers.

      For the record, I have a Sun W2100z x86 Opteron system but could care less about having Sparc as the current equipment is more than capable and provides excellent performance at a fraction of the cost of Sparc for my use. Sparc certainly is a great product and I welcome it and wished it were the standard instead of x86, but until that is ever realized, I'm simply results oriented.

      The apparent x86 motto: "Do more with less" [you define 'less']
      The apparent Sparc motto: "Work smarter, not harder" [and anyone/thing smart always costs more]

  11. Re:Thank the DoD by ForumTroll · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a developer I find the complete opposite. I would much rather work with Solaris (or BSD) in a server environment than any other OS. I've had no problems finding binary versions of any packages and even if I did it's not like compiling from source is a problem.... Dependency problems happen no where near as often as they do in Linux and generally they can be resolved very easily if you know what you're doing. As to your admins blindly installing Sun updates, this speaks more about the quality of your admins than it says anything about Sun. No updates for any OS are perfect especially when you're admins just "blindly install" them.

    It's interesting how you didn't touch on any of the good aspects of Solaris that can't be found in any other OS. Perhaps, if you look at some of the internals of Solaris you would see why the DoD is using it.

    --
    "A Lisp programmer knows the value of everything, but the cost of nothing." - Alan Perlis
  12. Google partnership could be.... by ChrisGilliard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the start to great things for Sun. Right now, all they've announced is some small things like buying each other's stuff and including the Google Toolbar with JRE downloads. But if you think about it, who has Google announced a partnership (other than the AOL deal last week which was mainly a defensive move against MS)? So you really have to take this partnership seriously. Now, with Google Wi-Fi rolling out, what's the next thing for Google to offer? Well, what about Sun-Ray's? It might not be possible to offer a Sun-Ray that connects over Google Wi-Fi for free right now, but in 5 - 10 years it will be (Moore's law makes hardware about 30% cheaper every year). I believe Google will wait until the hardware is cheap enough to be funded by advertising and give it away. The question is which hardware will they use. Clearly with this partnership announcement, Sun's Sun-Ray platform has taken the lead.

    --
    No Sigs!
  13. Re:Thank the DoD by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Bah. There are plenty of Sun boxes in the private sector. If I walk around our floor at the colocation facility I can see a dozen cages for large companies. There are more then 500 computers total. Half of them are Sun machines.

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
  14. Sun's new cheaper servers by gtoomey · · Score: 5, Informative
    Sun has some new AMD64 servers priced very aagressivly from $745 http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/x2100/

    They are trying to take on Dell in the lower end, thru to the SMP "big iron" machines as well.

    1. Re:Sun's new cheaper servers by Zemplar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not just that, but some suggest Sun's new servers are also designed to be used by Google, which if I recall correctly, has over 100,000 estimated servers.

      Sun is also on the right track to target Developers with their very affordable Ultra 20 in addition to their higher performing, and more costly, workstations.

  15. Re:Ummm... by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Funny
    OK, here's a scenario that's all too real:
    You're doing your bi-annual disaster recovery drill. Do you:
    1. run a script to restore your configurations.
    2. spend two days clicking checkboxes and updating text fields.

    I know which one I prefer...

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  16. Re:Serious Marketing Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    1) ROCK solid hardware. I've literally seen a Sun machine (A rather big and heavy SunBlade 2000) be dropped down a flight of stairs, and still boot up and run no problem. I've also seen 10+ year old Sun sparc32 systems still in use today with almost clear maintinance logs all the way back.

    2) Very good vendor-side support in terms of faulty hardware or spare parts. Can be expensive at times, but you get more than what you pay for.

    3) With Sun's hardware/software stack (stuff like ALOM, for example) you can do neat stuff you simply cannot do with any other platform. Might not be the easiest to click your way through installing, but once its up and running nothing can compete.

    4) Need to take that hard drive out of your 1 CPU e250 server and shove it into a big 64CPU e10k and have it boot/work? Need to hot swap some CPUs? Need the speed of internal FC-AL hard disks? Cant live without that 24gb of ram? ... Sun to the rescue..

    5) Sun is one of the VERY few vendors to provide a software stack certified for use "in the operation of a nuclear facility" .... take that for what it's worth .... .. just off the top of my head .. I'm sure I'll think of half a dozen more in the time it takes slashdot to post this comment ...

  17. Re:Thank the DoD by DarthBart · · Score: 4, Informative

    ordering a server that didn't come with a CD drive, DVD drive or video card? Puhhleeeze.

    Video card? Buh. Serial consoles. Dragging a keyboard, monitor, and mouse around the datacenter sucks.

  18. Re:Einstein fucked his cousin and stole his ideas by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 3, Funny

    Thanks for the live demo on the dangers of inbreeding.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  19. Re:Thank the DoD by molo · · Score: 2, Informative

    ordering a server that didn't come with a CD drive, DVD drive or video card? Puhhleeeze.

    Serial console. You can mount a CD or DVD with NFS to a workstation. These are *servers* we're talking about here. Not workstations.

    -molo

    --
    Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
  20. Re:Serious Marketing Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Their strongest products?

    Sun Fire x2100 - dirt cheap 64bit 1U server
    Sun Fire x4100 - cheap enterprise class dual socket 64bit server
    Sun Fire x4200 - slightly more expensive, more expandable dual socket 64bit server

    The 3 servers above are some of the best rackmount servers in the x86 industry.

    Of course Sun have decent SPARC products as well, Dual Core UltraSPARC-IV+ (72 CPU sockets, 144 processor cores) at the high end and cheap 1U's at the low.

    Then there are upcoming products: Niagra (32 threads of execution on a 1.4Ghz chip, rumoured to under test by eBay and Google), Rock (multi-thread high end chip being developed with Fujitsu), Honeycomb (storage device), Linux Application Environment (run linux apps on Solaris x86 with no special command).

    And... Solaris. It's been Suns best product for a long time.

  21. Sun the great equalizer!! by HampiRocks · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I will always have a soft corner in my heart for sun. Sun's java language made it possible for many developers from developing countries to compete in the commercial software market. Free JAVA meant that it was easy to learn the language. No question that the open-source tools like tomcat were the other barrier breakers.

    Sun always had been a company with a scoial conscience, dontaing hardware and software to colleges all over the world. It is nice that they have finally accepted the market trends (like x86) and decided to go with them.

  22. Re:Thank the DoD by bajan_on_ice · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DoD probably orders servers without video cards, cd/dvd drives on purpose. There are some DoD sites which have server manfactureres metal epoxy all of the USB/Firewire ports on their servers before they are even let into the datacenter. It may well be part of their security best practices.

    --
    "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
  23. some hints for Sun management by idlake · · Score: 2, Interesting
    • If you want to restore credibility, follow through on the commitment you made 10 years ago and make Java into an ISO/ANSI standard, with no strings attached.
    • Stop worrying about Microsoft trying to take away Java from you--that has already happened, and you only have yourself to blame for it.
    • Stop interfering with open source projects and drop your compatibility requirements--they are unenforceable, nobody gives a damn, and you only hurt yourself by antagonizing people with them.
    • When it comes to Java toolkits, either put up or shut up--either open source Swing or stop whining when people roll their own (SWT).
    • Let the market decide on APIs, not some bloated self-appointed "standards" body (the JCP).
    • Fix Java's numerical problems.
    • Face the facts: C# and the CLR are here and there are here to stay; if you want to have any relevance again, figure out how to integrate C#, Java, CLR, and JVM. You might start with a port of Java's APIs and a Java compiler to the CLR, and, conversely, support C# on the JVM. Eventually, you might create a dual JVM/CLR implementation (it's not that hard).
    • Stop bad-mouthing open source--it only pisses of the few potential supporters you still have. You could start gaining some credibility by firing Schwartz.
    • Stop trying to do user interface work--every single Sun UI project has been a dismal failure; leave window systems, toolkits, and programming environments to other people.
    • Stop being such gearheads; nobody really cares anymore whether your kernel is any better--you aren't going to rise back to glory with a better kernel.
    • Oh, McNealy, by the way, you aren't Bill Gates and you never will be.

    Frankly, while those recommendations may improve your chances, I still think Sun's future is bleak. Sun got big early on because they sold cheap machines with software that did stuff nobody else did, and they sold it to people like me who then, for about a decade, were loyal customers. But all of that is history. If Sun doesn't want to disappear completely, they still need a better strategy than selling Opterons.
  24. It could go either way. by nortcele · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Our company used to be nearly a complete Sun shop. I see Sun's problem as hanging on to their beloved Sparc CPU technology and Scott McNealy too long. It didn't work out as they planned (open Sparc technology did not get adopted). Then Dell came in cut the legs from under Sun. Now we use NetApp filers. And Exchange (I know. I dislike it too. Our company is in so cozy with Microsoft that Melinda gets jealous.) The most recent Google/Sun media presentation left me with the feeling that Scott McNealy no longer has the vision or inspiration to lead Sun. He has only buzz words and little passion and blue jeans. Jonathan Schwartz with a hair cut might be a more inspiring leader.

    However, the tide seems to be turning a little. While Management has been sucking up to Dell and Microsoft, our little trench workers are learning and liking Linux. The AMD Galaxy boxes from Sun (specifically the 4200) have our manufacturing folk interested. Cost is good. Redundant power supplies with separate power to each. Solaris 10, Redhat, SuSE, and Windows support. Way faster (seriously... quite a bit) than comparably priced servers from Dell. You mileage may vary, but our use of them for our CPU intensive tasks look promising. Reliability yet to be determined.

    Gone are the days of Veritas and Sun Clustering. The NetApps cover the file storage, and the Sun Galaxy may be the CPU to run our stuff. However, I don't see where Sun is going to get rich off the new hardware. They used to soak us for support. Our dept stopped forking over money for that years ago and took care of it themselves. I don't see Sun making money without extensive support contracts... but the blindly paid-for support contracts of old have dried up. I own Sun stock and am upside down in it. Here's to hoping that it will turn around.

  25. Trust is hard to earn back. by WebbedWell · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Alright, while I don't pretend to downplay the genious of a company who has always grabbed headlines since the inception of computing as we know today, there are more issues than innovation in which a CTO must underwrite. Trust is an important factor. How does Sun gain the trust of our CTO's? In today's "You better get it all done with this much money and have 99 percent uptime or it's YOUR ass" CTO job descriptions, CTOs get much more sleep at night on non SUN solutions. We once had sun replace a systemboard on a very expensive SUN server 21 times before this server was usable again. I think this marked a turning point with us (IBM's largest customer) and we were far more apprehensive towards this company from that series of moments on. I could go on but I am actually rooting for Sun.

  26. SUN by Heembo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The google-sun partnership is a lot more than hype. Google buying up a lot of new SUN servers? Most anything that google touches or partners with turns to gold, this is the start of something huge. You think the dot.com revolution started a big rise of hardware purchases? What happens when Google blankets the earth in free wireless and uses SUN servers to make it happen? Great article with a positive slant on this partnership that few others noted. It's from CNN Money - where slashdotters do not roam? http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/14/technology/techinv estor/tech_biz/

    --
    Horns are really just a broken halo.