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Company Claims Patent Over XML
Aviran Mordo writes "News.com reports that a small software developer plans to seek royalties from companies that use XML, the latest example of patent claims embroiling the tech industry. Charlotte, N.C-based Scientigo owns two patents (No. 5,842,213 and No. 6,393,426) covering the transfer of 'data in neutral forms.' These patents, one of which was applied for in 1997, are infringed upon by the data-formatting standard XML, Scientigo executives assert."
XML is a derivative of SGML..WAY Older than 1997, I can't see how an IP attorney would suggest they actually litigate this. There is A LOT of prior art to go through, in a LOT of formats...This is going to take YEARS in a best case.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
How much more generic than "data in neutral form" can you get?
If such patents are held to be enforcable you americans really need to start shooting the judiciary to help them get a sense of priorities sorted.
What is really accomplished in all this? No one has stopped making websites with GIF images. After I install Fedora on my box, I race out for the MP3 libs. So, if this goes through, we will all continue to use XML regardless?
Click here or here.
Do these companies just forget they have a patent on some technology/feature and then 8 years later when their patent is included in a standard and a huge part of the community they say "Hey, didn't we patent that 8 years ago?"
There really needs to be some reform that states a company has 90 days, 1 year, or some short fixed period of time to bring a suit against a product, starting from the time it hits the market and is available to the public, the industry, or something.
The idea that you can silently sit on patents waiting for the world to embrace an obvious idea is an abuse of the system.
Let's review the patenet, line 1:
The present invention simplifies the data modeling process and enables its full dynamic versioning by employing a non-hierarchical non-integrated structure to the organization of information.
Uh... is it just me, or is XML ENTIRELY hierarchical?? In fact, it won't validate if you don't have elements nested properly. How can they even be serious?
This fact:
Charlotte, N.C.-based Scientigo owns two patents (No. 5,842,213 and No. 6,393,426) covering the transfer of "data in neutral forms." These patents, one of which was applied for in 1997, are infringed upon by the data-formatting standard XML, Scientigo executives assert.
combined with this fact:
Daly noted that companies or even individuals often make patent claims on XML. For example, Microsoft, which uses XML as the foundation of many of its products, was awarded a patent for programming techniques related to XML.
shows me that the USPTO hopelessly is fucked up.
These people are either overwhelmed by the number of claims and have no time to do the proper research before granting a patent, or they are are just plain stupid. I'm going to be generous and assume that these examiners are given a quota that they have to have resolved each week and that they haven't the time or resources to validate every claim. There is probably also a lack of expertise in the USPTO to properly vet the claims made in these applications.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
These insane patents are actually the best thing that could have ever happened. The way things are going now, there is going to have to be a major overhaul of the patent system. The instane patents have made it dramaticly clear that there is something wrong with the system (these are the tech equivelents of suing McDonalds because your kids are fat).
Had companies been less aggressive in patenting and litigating nearly anything possible, the system might go on how it is now for decades. These people are making the patent system collapse in a way that those against software patents don't have the power to do.
Yes!
Now all you need is two years and $5,000,000 for the legal fees to prove it in court!
Isn't ASCII itself data transferred in a neutral form?
I can imagine patents and copyrights begin to gain the kind of unpopularity that welfare gained in the 70s and 80s. There are parallels. Welfare was meant to help the poor; but the programs were poorly designed. They there it was a short step to argue that the programs hurt the poor, aided by a few well chosen horror stories. Then a little banging of the idea's head up against a bedrock American values (self reliance), and you get the end of welfare as we know it.
Patents are supposed to help the business climate, but the program is sloppy that it exerts a chilling effect on innovation. There are no shortage of horror stories to buttress this. The bedrock value you break the whole system on is freedom itself.
Of course, the flaw in this scenario is the difference between the right and the left. We on the left have always been more of a crowd-type-mob than a mafia-type-mob. If there is no grass roots impetus, then there will be no movement.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Shouldn't he/she be held accountable for any really STUPID decisions made?
Jesus, the amount of prior art related to this patent, and its similarity to so many other very questionable tech-related patent grants makes one wonder: Maybe if the examiners had their butts held to the fire, maybe they would be more careful about what they grant patent rights to...
???
Well, Channels are dead but "Pull" isn't. It lives on as RSS, but that's neither here nor there.
Why isn't there some sort of time limit on how long you can sit back before choosing to file lawsuits against companies over patent infringement? XML has been in widespread use for at least 2 years if not longer. This company had to know it was out there and being used. So, they had to know it infringed on their patent.
Why didn't they stand up and say anything earlier? Oh yeah...because back then it would have meant alot less money to be gained. Doesn't this amount to blackmail? Or borders on racketeering?
Let's apply for a patent for a netural gas with the following composition:
.03% .002% .0002% .0005% .0001% .00005% .000009%
Nitrogen - 78%
Oxygen - 21%
Argon - 1%
Carbon Dioxide -
Neon -
Methane -
Helium -
Krypton -
Hydrogen -
Xenon -
Wanna guess what I'm gonna do if I can get a patent on that?
<start evil laughter>
All of you will be my slaves and I will rule the world!!!
<end evil laughter>
Queen B
HDGary secures my bank
The thing that's bad about this is that assuming these guys have enough money to front the lawyers they can sue their way into riches regardless of whether it's a valid claim. All they do is send nastygrams to a bunch of small companies they believe to be infringing on their patent seeking royalties. Invariably a number of those companies will pay up to avoid the potential of open ended legal battles.
...
So in the 90's it was:
1) Do something cool
2)
3) Profit
In the 00's it's
1) Do something somebody else did before
2) Sue everybody who already did it
3) Profit
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
On sending data via an electronic mechanism... come on, if this doesn't get smacked down thoroughly I'll get royally pissed!
There is so much wrong with this I can't even begin!! Freakin' misuse of patents by doughheads who seek to make money on other people's efforts!
GRR!
Oops, how did this get here?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Hmmm... sounds like a kung-fu movie dialog:
cut to Shaolin Temple:
Master Li:
One skilled in the art will appreciate that preferred embodiments of the method of the present invention may take on many different forms depending on the particular application intended. In light of this, the preferred embodiment presented here has been designed primarily to teach many of the important aspects and implications of the method of the present invention in a context which can be readily learned.
Grasshopper:
But Master, how will I use these techniques?
Master Li:
Once taught the method, one skilled in the art will appreciate many alternative and preferred means for implementing individual aspects of it, depending upon their specific purpose.
And SGML is just a minor syntax change from Lisp S-Expressions which should be even older.
Linux is not Windows
but wouldn't that kind of make it an obvious path to the layperson?
A machine being a subset of a chunk of steel is somewhat backwards. You cannot just take my list of tools or ideas, leave a few out and then claim them as your own. You have to create a new function or improvment for them.
Now maybe the fact we are discussing all this prior art (that might not apply) doesn't mean thier patten isn't valid but that it shows it might be overly broad and reaches into too many areas?
Step 1, look for an existing idea or proccess.
Step 2, steal idea or process.
Step 3, ?
step 4, profit.