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Microsoft Threatens To Withdraw Windows in S.Korea
RocketJeff writes "South Korea's Fair Trade Commission (FTC) has been investigating Microsoft since 2001 for violations of South Korea's antitrust rules. According to a Reuters article, part of a recent Microsoft regulatory filing states 'it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea.' Basically, Microsoft is threatening to take their marbles and go home if they don't get the ruling they want."
It's their software, shouldn't they be able to sell it or not sell it where they wish?
I am Homer of Borg. Resistance is Fut.. Mmmmmmmm, Donuts!
the headline below this is "Why do people switch to Linux?"
"It is a good divine that follows his own instructions" - Portia, The Merchant of Venice
This is the best thing that could have happened... the more stubborn and ridiculous microsoft acts, the more they will have to rely on how good their product is rather than monopolization... and with that, either windows will get better or linux will become more prevalent. Either way I'm happy
I don't want to get flamed too hard here, but why not? I know M$ has done some predatory things in the past, but they also do a lot of good and get constantly bashed for it. In an open market why should M$ have to sell their goods in a Country that constantly hassles them? I say let them, this will allow the open source movement to see how well they can step up to the plate as well. Just my $0.02...
So, if I'm reading it right, Microsoft is saying that they will either not release a "special" version of windows for S. Korea, or that releases will be delayed (presumably to create the modifications required by their Anti-Trust regulations).
This seems perfectly reasonable. They're not even saying they will necessarily pull windows from the market, it might just take them longer to develop the "MS Vista - S. Korea Version" than it would to release the standard. Nothing to see here... more Microsoft non-news.
Plus, if S. Korea is saying "play nice" and they say "no" outright, this is still well within their rights, there is no mandate that they must release software for the masses (In fact, SlashThink directly opposes this). More power to S. Korea if they think they can actually pull that off...
"If you put butter and salt on it, it tastes like salty butter." -Terry Pratchet, on Popcorn.
Right...that should convince the South Korean government (and the rest of the world) that they're not an abusive monopoly.
I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. I would just like to see them do the same throughout the rest of the world. Start threatening to take Windows out of the various world markets and see the wonders it does for OSS alternatives. At the very least people will begin to prepare migration plans and so on.
Wouldn't South Korea just be able to say, "Very well then, your product no longer enjoys any copyright protection by our laws"?
Copyright is a privlidge governement extends to corperations, after all. It can be revoked. If the software is not available, what do they have to lose?
Gaming is fairly big in SK also, somehow I think 'it runs on WINE' isn't going to fly.
But it runs on the Playstation probably is.. Its also a huge market for games, so this might make people write/port their games to non-Microsoft operation systems..
"Basically, Microsoft is threatening to take their marbles and go home if they don't get the ruling they want."
I hate to rain on the Microsoft bashing parade, but I think it's more like Korea saying: "We don't like your marbles, change them." And Microsoft saying:"Fuck you guys, I like my marbles the way they are, take them as is or I take them home."
Okay, so what's wrong if Microsoft does not want to sell Windows to the Korean market? If I make a product, I don't have to sell it to you.
I think this is a great chance for Linux on the desktop to get a toe hold. All those complaining sound like the people who wish for something, then complain when they get it.
Linux O Muerte!
Oh, please.
MS isn't going to pull out of South Korea. Everyone involved already knows that. The statement is just part of the usual grandstanding that always goes on with this sort of thing. They won't pull out because it's too large a market to just write off, and they don't want another country deciding to go with a competitor nationwide.
Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
I guess this would be one reason.
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http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/05/10/28/1226229.
Or it would spark more piracy as people desperate to play Counterstrike and Starcraft download Windows instead of buying it in the stores.
I have to wonder, is Microsoft's future sales of Windows starting to look so bleak that Microsoft needs to play poker with their customers? I know that yesterday's quarterly report was not the greatest, but I didn't think it was bad enough to start warranting this type of chair-throwing behavior with South Korea.
On a side note, since this news broke, if any CIO manager who is dependent upon Windows is not starting to look for strategic alternatives, that IT mangaer is not doing his or her job.
There are three possible explanations:
1. Microsoft doesn't make a lot of money in South Korea, so they don't care if they're there or not.
2. This is just a stunt better used by an 8 year old rather than a mult-billion dollar software company.
3. Microsoft is desperate to hold on to its domination of the planet earth. After all, when you control over 90% of the desktops on earth there's nowhere to go but down.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
I guess it depends on how legal said cafes are in the first place.
And how up-to-date they like to be, I don't think MS could stop existing copies of MS Windows from running. And I don't see WinXP++ only games coming out all that soon.
Then finally what about buying abroad?
I don't think it'll be an issue, one way or the other.
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
They won't have to switch. They'll just keep doing what they're doing right now, which is running pirated copies of Windows. Considering how rampant piracy is in South Korea, Microsoft isn't exactly going to lose any money by suspending official sales. They'll probably come out ahead by avoiding legal expenses.
This is the correct response to not getting your way, at least in commerce. When the consumer doesn't like the product as it is and demands that it change before they buy it, the distributor or manufacturer has every right to say "fine, then we won't sell it to you."
S. Korea should invest heavily in Apple and then buy Apple PCs for desktops and use Linux for Servers... that will show Microsoft they aren't the only player on the block. They may have a lot of Marbles, but Apples are perttier and don't break as often when used.... Linux has great Smashers.... they're not pretty but they do the job really well.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
You are right. It is. They have the right to do whatever they want with it. If they don't like the terms of dealing with a country they have the right to limit distribution in that country.
/. ...
Of course this is
-everphilski-
I wonder what percentage of the south korean economy is made up of those internet cafes. Switching OS's won't really be fun for them (if it comes to that.).
Does not really matter, as it's not like MS can reclaim already existing Windows installs. It may create some annoyances for people planing new deployments or upgrades, but existing install will not be affected in any way. It's like if Ford decided to stop making cars, it would not cause all the Fords currently on the road to stop working.
I applaud Microsoft's hard stance on this, and hope that they withdraw all support and future sales of MS products to S. Korea, a powerhouse of a tech economy that's surprised pretty much the entire world in it's post-Korean War explosion into the high-tech scene.
This could be the best thing to happen to the OSS world since Mr. Torvalds and RMS began collaborating on some projects...
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
But the "You broke our laws and have to abide by our rulings" play is somehow unreasonable?
A monopoly corporation can dictate terms to an entire nation, demanding to be exempt from their laws. Let them do what they want, or they cripple South Korea. Who will stop them?
How Bush fucked us over, #34,451: appointing industry lobby lawyers to the Justice Department who simply ignored the findings of the courts, letting Microsoft go unmolested and whole at the beginning of this numskull's reign. The world will be paying for that for another decade.
Go Linux. It's the pinhole of sunlight you sight at the top of the rubble blocking the collapsed mineshaft entrance. We might make it out of here...
My question is, what is Microsoft's policy on Iran ?u bchannel_id=52&story_id=24881&name=EU+Big+Three+to +consult+on+Ahmadinejad+remarks
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?s
~jennifer.k~
Do what we say and no one gets hurt.
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
Considering how rampant piracy is in South Korea, <blah-blah-blah-snip>
:)
First, South Korea isn't known for piracy any more than any other country. Second, piracy is rampant here as well as it is there as well as it is anywhere in the world. Just because you have a better explanation for stealing you music in the name of media-should-be-free rants, doesn't mean piracy is only rampant in South Korea, China, and other countries you know nothing about.
Cheers.
This is EXACTLY why Massachusetts and ALL governments should insist on open formats for public records. It's not right that public records be held hostage!
What would happen if Microsoft's proprietary XML format was used and Microsoft told Massachusetts that if they didn't get their way they would stop selling Windows in that state? How would the public continue to access their own public records?
It amazes me that some people can't see this danger.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Yeah.. This headline is exactly why the media today pisses me off. Sensationalism at its worst.
From TFA: "If the KFTC enters an order requiring Microsoft to remove code or redesign Windows uniquely for the Korean market, it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions in Korea," Microsoft said in a U.S. regulatory filing on Thursday. (Emphasis mine)
First off, that was disclosed in a regulatory filing, which was the responsible thing for Microsoft to do. They're warning their investors that should the ruling be against them, they will have to take steps to deal with the ruling which would cost them and their investors money.
Secondly, Microsoft isn't really being unreasonable. Irrespective of whatever reasons they chose to bundle these three pieces of software in the first place, they're bundled together now. There are many issues with decoupling them, not the least of which is the fact that the SDK for WMP and MSN are now included in Windows, and could cause breakage to non-Microsoft applications when removed. But let's assume for a second that not one app in the entire world uses either of these extensions to the standard Windows SDK. There's still the issue that decoupling these pieces of software will be expensive... If only Korea requires their decoupling, it may make more business sense to simply pull their product from South Korea rather than pay the costs associated with it.
Finally, Real Media (also mentioned in TFA) doesn't have a leg to stand on. Their product is inferior to their competitors' products in every way, so they chose to stay in business the old fashioned way: lawsuits.
I'm not pro-Microsoft. But I'm definitely anti-sensationalist media and anti-idiot.
I currently have no clever signature witicism to add here.
You can't play hardball with an independent nation..
Tomrrows Headlines:
Korea declares all Microsoft IP, Software and Copywrites to be in the Korean Public Domain. All Microsoft Offices Nationalized and documents seized for "National Security"
That reminds me of a story about how Cuba is filled with classic American cars from the 1940s and 1950s that are (for the most part) still well maintained and still on the road after all these years.
Getting a bit off topic, but many of those American cars are still running because the engines have been transplanted from a Russian Lada or Volga. If the same principle is applied in South Korea, then something like Linux will replace Windows when the localised version is too out of date.
The question is, if Microsoft pulls out of the S. Korean market, what leg would they have to stand on to enforce their copyright?
Granted, they can pull Korean Language support out of Windows Vista though.
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Why do you think they don't get away with corporate-wide piracy of Windows? Maybe extremely large visible organizations don't, but there are tons of smaller companies that get away with that sort of thing all the time.
I did a simple google search (piracy in south Korea) and found the following interesting articles. I may be wrong, but it does look like S. Korea is known for a major amount of piracy And is my opinion that we (United States) are no way as close to the piracy in other countries like South Korea as we tend to fear repercussions and law suits more then other countries do...
http://www.mpaa.org/PiracyFactSheets/PiracyFactShe etSouthKorea.pdf
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117907504?catego ryid=1009&cs=1
Piracy losses (US$ millions) $27 million
Seizures (all items) 231,514
Piracy level (Video & Optical Disc) 25%
"Piracy has been on the rebound in South Korea since the economic downturn in 2001 and 2002. Historically, piracy of high quality, counterfeit videocassettes has been the most prevalent in the market. However, in 2003, there has been a significant increase in the number of DVD imports and optical disc burner operations in South Korea. In addition, duplication facilities of videocassette plants and now burner labs have become larger, more secretive and more sophisticated with technology. This signals a shift from the historical trend where piracy duplication facilities had small and medium capacity.
South Korea's cat-and-mouse with piracy
"With a piracy rate of 40 percent to 50 percent, according to various estimates, South Korea has become one of the hot spots for cracking down on illegal software."
Again I may be wrong but it seems that your statement is unfounded. - Cheers!
There are 10 types of people in the world: Those that know Binary and those who don't.
I may be wrong, but it does look like S. Korea is known for a major amount of piracy
h tm
Correct! You are wrong. South Korea is definitely not known for a major amount of piracy.
And is my opinion that we (United States) are no way as close to the piracy in other countries like South Korea as we tend to fear repercussions and law suits more then other countries do...
Excuse me while I don't trust your opinion. You project $27mill "piracy losses", meanwhile the RIAA projects "billions" annually from music piracy alone. I wouldn't trust the RIAA so much except that you used one MPAA link.
I didn't read variety.com and news.com.com because those aren't exactly the places I would go to get statistics. The mpaa link is specifically on South Korea. That's misleading. Read the following press release on piracy in general and see that South Korea doesn't even make the list.
http://www.mpaa.org/anti-piracy/press/97/97_3_12.
Hong Kong & China mentioned.
Quote:
Italy remains a significant video piracy problem in the region with an estimated loss to the U.S. based motion picture industry of $294 million per annum.
Here's MPAA on anti-piracy mission:
http://www.mpaa.org/anti-piracy/
South Korea not even mentioned. Just because Google returned a link when you searched for something doesn't mean that result set contains valid links proving your point.
Cheers.
To a whole new generation of Linux programmers and tinkerers right in Korea! And with their IT infrastructure so far ahead...
:)
Maybe it's not a good idea
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
I lived in Venezuela in the mid 90's and I'd never seen such rampant piracy before in my life
Ya, and the Rolexs/Louis Vitton bags/DVD's sold on New York streets are legit. Piracy is a global issue, you don't have to be in the third world/asia/eastern europe to see it. Its called a "quick buck", if there is one to be made, someone will make it.
As far as pulling Windows in S Korea, really, really, bad idea. Why, you ask? Because, SK is a wired country, they have loads of skill and talent, and they will out innovate, and out produce any NA company given the chance. You want an alternative OS that plays nice with M$ products, wait a year, there will be a solution from SK, it will work, and they will sell it, at a tenth of the cost of Windoze. Of course, I loath M$, and wish them a quick and painfull demise. However, given the foothold, the NA software industry would be gutted. Especially in the US.
Remeber back when Ford/GM/Dodge had to address their competition from Asia in the 70's and 80's. Remember what they did (of course you don't, they did NOTHING). Who's laughing now? Ford's debt, is junk status, GM is almost bankrupt, Dodge already got a bailout in the 80's, and are screwed again. And Hyundai just keeps rolling along, making piles of money, and more and more of the products you own. Oh, and before you all start screaming about "I wouldn't buy a Jap wagon for all the......", they make a ton of other stuff, that you do buy. Mostly stuff that the US used to make, but can't anymore because the quality sucks, and the cost is too high (go labour unions, save the worker, kill the employer).
When firms become large enough to wield monopoly power, they become much larger threats to free-market economics than anti-trust regulation. There is NOTHING free-market about an industry dominated by a monopoly. Market constraints come from the monopoly rather than the gov't, but that does not mean they are not constraints.
Anti-trust regulations (if well administered) make markets slightly less free overall, but they remain MOSTLY free. This is an attempt to preserve as much freedom in the marketplace as possible.
MOSTLY free is better than NOT-AT-ALL free.
If you regard free-market as a binary condition, then a more accurate statement is that market freedom is inherently unstable, eventually requiring regulation to prevent descent into abusive monopolistic environments. As such, free markets would be a poor standard by which to judge an economic environment because it would describe only immaturity of the market. Gauging market freedom on a continuum is a much more useful way to consider its effects on the market participants.
You criticize the parent post for poor reasoning, but you offer ad hominem attacks and a straw man.
The parent post simply asked questions about the morality of the decision, and as far as I can see, he or she has a perfectly valid point.
As far as business practices go, I don't know the details of the anti-trust rulings, but the South Korean market may simply not be big enough to justify complying with the ruling. If Microsoft has no intentions of complying with the ruling, but rather withdrawing from the market if this comes to pass, I see no reason for them not to announce the fact. It may affect the ruling, which is good for their business, and if it doesn't, well, good for South Korea for standing by its laws. That's what should happen.
If its an empty threat, and South Korea calls them on it, well, it'll affect their ability to negotiate with government agencies, but the reality of the situation is that if the anti-trust case goes through and they don't pull out of the market, you can bet on them reaching some sort of compermise, which I'm guessing is half the point of the threat in the first place.
Now, if the only point of the threat is to manipulate the legal system, that's certainly questionable, morally, but it's a very nuanced situation that deserves more discussion. I'm of the opinion personally that the moral questions lie with S. Korea about whether or not they should compermise their legal integrity in the face of an economic threat.