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Fully Automated IM Worms on the Way?

nanycow writes "The sudden appearance of a rootkit file in a spyware-laden IM worm attack has set off new fears that malicious hackers are sophisticated enough to launch a fully automated worm attack against instant messaging networks. Researchers say the stage is set for a worm writer to use an unpatched buffer overflow in an IM app to unleash a worm that is capable of infecting millions or users without the use of malicious URLs that require a click."

46 of 230 comments (clear)

  1. Jabber! by caluml · · Score: 2, Funny

    We need to use Jabber. It will prevent against things like this. Oh wait. It won't. Still, use Jabber anyway, for it is Open Source goodness.

    1. Re:Jabber! by Short+Circuit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was actually going to suggest the same thing. AFAIK, it's not IM protocol that are insecure to the point of allowing worms to propogate, it's the client. Jabber is a standardized protocol, allowing for a multitude of different clients.

      Different clients are unlikely to share the same vulnerabilities, so, with a wide variety of clients in use, you're not going to have one single worm that can infect a huge portion of the network.

    2. Re:Jabber! by Misch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's stopping MS from implementing a Unix-style security model?

      Your mom. Litereally.

      I understand users/groups/file permissions. I assume you do too. What about your parents?

      --

      --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
    3. Re:Jabber! by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I understand users/groups/file permissions. I assume you do too. What about your parents?

      What would they need to know? There's a separate password to access the "administrator" account. When you buy the computer (presumably preloaded with Windows) you set that password and create accounts for everybody in your family. From that point on you only use that password to install software for everybody to use.

      It shouldn't even be required to use that password to install software for just yourself. If I go out and buy Sim City 4000 and I only want to be able to use it on my user account, then why should I need admin rights to install it? This would be the same behavior as --prefix on Unix -- but a lot more user friendly.

      You'd still have the problem of social engineering (download our new screensaver!!!!) but it would be a lot easier to tell people to never enter that password when prompted by a website then it would be to block access to bad scripts or ActiveX controls.

      They will try it in the next version of Windows apparently. I don't see what's stopping it from being in XP SP3 (or why it wasn't in SP2 for that matter). That would be even better because it would give software publishers time to get used to the model before Vista is released.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:Jabber! by grassy_knoll · · Score: 2, Interesting
      What's stopping MS from implementing a Unix-style security model?

      Your mom. Litereally.

      I understand users/groups/file permissions. I assume you do too. What about your parents?


      I was going to moderate this, but had to comment instead.

      You do realize that OS X is built on BSD, which has the traditional Unix file permissions? My mother, sister, father, stepmother and girlfriend have no problems coping with file permissions.

      Command line unix might be obscure to the majority of the public, but OS X proves that, with the right interface, it's not a problem.
  2. Different from other open ports? by spencerogden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How is this any different any other services attached to a port on your computer? Whenever a listening program has an overflow vulerability there is the potential for "A fully automated worm." Granted there is a lot of IM software out there, but there have been plenty of ports and services on Windows that have been exploited in a fully automated way in the past. At least IM software is a _bit_ more heterogeneous than Windows.

    1. Re:Different from other open ports? by trezor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Basicly it says "People are using IM. Buffer overflow in IMs is like any other buffer overflow also bad".

      May I say "Duh"?

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
    2. Re:Different from other open ports? by ColaMan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At least IM software is a _bit_ more heterogeneous than Windows.

      In this case it doesn't really matter.
      Consider a exploit that can get the buddy list out of MSN for example.
      Now as most IM's only have one client used by the bulk of people, it becomes trivial to send a copy of the exploit to each person on your list and have a high proportion of them become infected, to progress outwards to friends
        geometrically (unless you have no friends)

      This is a hell of a lot more sucessful than your usual pick-a-random-ip-and-hope-it's-exploitable method.

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    3. Re:Different from other open ports? by xtracto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think an important point to note is the number of users (more than 195 million users acording to Wikipedia [i know, i know... maybe it was better to get the number from my ass]).

      And yet worse, unlike other software which keep open ports, Messenger software has the slight property that its users does not know a lot about computers to take precautions.

      About heterogeneity, it would be nice to see if the "attacked because it is the most used" argument of MS Windows holds here. IIRC Aol IM is the most widley used messenger. Which one will get more viruses?? AIM? or MSNM? place your bets!

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    4. Re:Different from other open ports? by cowscows · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not entirely different, but it's still interesting. Partially because a lot of people are running IM clients. Also interesting is the fact that an IM client generally has a built in list of other vulnerable machines, via a buddy list. Having this list of people could be pretty handy if the worm can manage to spread through the IM protocols themselves, since it could allow infections to spread without relying on sending out masses of random traffic looking for vulnerable machines. That could just make this sort of thing that much more efficient and harder to detect, because the offending traffic might not look all that different than normal IM chatter.

      But then again, I don't know much specific about how this all is supposed to work, so I may be wrong.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    5. Re:Different from other open ports? by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why on Earth would an IM application, which is essentially a "client" application, maintain open ports, listening, service-style?

      And if there really is some essential functionality that depends on such open ports, wouldn't one hope they were implemented FTP-style ie. open them randomly and tell the other party what they are via outgoing connection?

      And if the above is true, how can a remote host cause a crash? It shouldn't be allowed to connect to my IM client just like that. There shouldn't be anything to connect to in the first place! The IM app should only connect to the IM central server and to accepted hosts in my buddy list.

      The thing I see that would work is the bot prompting me to accept him in my buddy list and _then_ screwing my IM client. But that's quite different from all this "open port" business that people talk about, and can only be fixed by fixing the IM clients.

      --
      i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer
    6. Re:Different from other open ports? by dkone · · Score: 2, Funny

      "geometrically (unless you have no friends)"

      haha, it finally pays off. err.... wait a minute.

  3. Infection by kevin_conaway · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is it me or did the article not really explain how the users can become infected without some sort of user interaction? If not, I think the best way to combat this is user education. I know AOL IM can send out "system" instant messages that could be very useful in telling people to avoid these links.

    It glosses over good old fashioned buffer overflows, but not much else. Then again, what else do you need? :)

    1. Re:Infection by LordSnooty · · Score: 5, Insightful
      AOL IM can send out "system" instant messages that could be very useful in telling people to avoid these links.
      I do hope you are being humourous, they are exactly the kind of unannounced "system" pop-ups which can lead to user confusion & miseduaction at best, or system infections at worst. Think of Windows Messanger - not IM - with its "you are leaking your address onto the Internet!". Or think of web banner pop-ups masquerading as OS messages. It's no surprise the average user has no understanding of what's a real message and what's malicious.
    2. Re:Infection by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Informative

      From the summary:

      "Researchers say the stage is set for a worm writer to use an unpatched buffer overflow in an IM app to unleash a worm that is capable of infecting millions or users without the use of malicious URLs that require a click."

      FTA "'We've already seen documentation for some serious code-execution vulnerabilities in IM applications. If you put it all together, you'll see we're not that far away from an automated IM attack where infections don't require the user to click on anything,' Wells said."

      User education won't help if propagation occurs without any action by them.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  4. That is a how a worm or virus should be! by jurt1235 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No social engineering by seducing (l)users to click on a link. Real virus multiply themselves!
    So what is the issue with this?

    --

    My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
  5. Very infectious. by Poromenos1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you take into account the Small world phenomenon, this means that these worms will infect everyone in the world in at most six or seven hops.

    --
    Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
    1. Re:Very infectious. by Minwee · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wow. Just think of how many times Kevin Bacon would get hit by that.

  6. Workplace by GoodOmens · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its a shame that AIM is so widly used in the workplace even though is so vunerable
    I know our IT department frowns upon it but walking around you still see it used ....
    Its only a matter of time until something like this came out that has the potential to severly damage both corporate and private networks ....

  7. Re:Evolution baby by stinerman · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ahh... not so fast.

    These viruses seem to be intelligently designed. ;-)

  8. The Disease is Awful by putko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This particular payload is awful -- automated rootkit install.

    Maybe one day we'll get a series of destructive worms that will render hardware unusable (e.g. no boot, disk overwritten, fan turned off and processor cranked up to do permanent damage, boot flash cleared) -- resulting in successive waves of hardware replacement.

    I talked to a guy at a computer store about the aftermath of a worm that cleared the bootflash -- they sold so many new computers!

    At that point, I figure Micr$oft will be in big trouble; after you buy your fifth motheboard in a row (and try to recover your data) after "Bukk@keB1ll" versions A through X hit you, you'll consider getting a Mac so you can get work done.

    --
    http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_s tone_your_children/dt21_18a.html
    1. Re:The Disease is Awful by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you take nature at as a model(tenous at best) then actually the MOST virulent viruses are the least likely to cause pandemics. Why? Because they burn out so fast the victims aren't nearly as likely to spread them. Take ebola for example, it's a horrible virus but it killed it's victims so quickly it never spread very far outside of Africa. That is why they are concerned about the fact that the bird flu this time around is killing LESS people, gives it more of a chance to mutate and become wide-spread. Remember the Spanish Influenza that killed so many people only had a fatality rate of around 5%.
      No, the sneakier viruses won't ruin your box, they will just sit there and gather information. I would much rather have my email and personal documents destroyed then had them read. Even if you read them then destroy them, I know they have been compromised and can take whatever steps deemed neccessary to mitigate my risk. The most sinister viruses would just read and transmit them without me ever knowing.....

    2. Re:The Disease is Awful by cr0sh · · Score: 2, Insightful
      However, computer viruses have an ability that biological viruses don't:

      Near-instantaneous worldwide communication.

      I can easily foresee the creation of a virus that does nothing but spreads, quietly and innocuously. Via rootkits and other methods (polymorphism, etc), it could spread and likely not be detected over the course of the infection. Each virus infection would have a counter, so that once the n-th infection has occurred (where "n" is some large number - say 1 million), that virus would send out a quick signal over the internet which all the other viruses are listening for, at which point they all wake up and say "game over", formatting the drive (at night, at next power-up, at low-activity time, etc), or do other malicious damage.

      In a way, it is kinda like a countdown virus "bomb" - the host that is being infected in this case is the network itself, with the nodes being infected analogous to the cells of the host. Basically a virus that "liquidates" the nodes which make up the host network. Such a virus infection might wake the world up big-time, especially if it took down some large server farms or company-wide PC networks. Why it hasn't occurred yet is anyone's guess. Likely, it is because there is no profit-motive behind it, yet.

      If you wanted to be paranoid, you might suppose that it actually has already started, we just haven't noticed the infection, nor has the countdown reached the requisite number of infected machines...

      --
      Reason is the Path to God - Anon
  9. Re:Evolution baby by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In humans, a virus may be able to adapt to antibiotics or vaccines over time and continue to survive. Looks like it can happen with computer viruses too.

    Not quite. Biological viruses evolve. Computer viruses, however, are products of intelligent design, for certain values of 'intelligent'.

    Computer viruses aren't a force of nature. Behind every one of them is a malicious programmer.

    Eventually, I imagine we'll see polymorphic and self-modifying code reach the point where it can evolve in the same way as biological viruses, but that's probably quite a way off. The nearest I've heard of to that is viruses programmed to alter their appearance to avoid detection.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  10. Re:I cant take any more of this by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The editors usage of the term rootkit is correct, and proper. You may as well argue that the usage of 'cockpit' for the pilot seat and control area of an airplane is incorrect. From the relevent wikipedia article.

    Generally now the term is not restricted to Unix based operating systems, as tools that perform a similar set of tasks now exist for non-Unix operating systems such as Microsoft Windows (even though such operating systems may not have a "root" account).

    Rootkit is no longer a term restricted to gaining "root" user access. The term now stands for any suite of hack and/or programs (the "kit") that enables the malware to disguise its presence in the OS in a more sophistocated manner than simply having obscurely named .exes and registry entries.

    Furthermore, in my entirely humble and sincerely personal opinion, the term is an appropriate, apt, and succinct way of decribing these types of malicious programs, both in distinguishing them from the less deeply embedded malware types, and in emphasising the increased security threat these programs pose.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  11. The sky is falling! ( again ) by grasshoppa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Gee, wiz, a "fully automated" worm using a different attack vector.

    Let me ask you something, what *doesn't* constitute a "fully automated" worm? Was there some guy in a back room somewhere, individually infecting people with Code Red?

    And IM services are hardly a new vector. If anything, this story should be about how long it has taken these people to figure out that services like AIM and ICQ are used by people with little or no computer knowledge, who will randomly click on things. You know, sorta like email. That's the real new nugget out of all of this, and hardly worth the two pages of ads to read about.

    --
    Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    1. Re:The sky is falling! ( again ) by Red+Flayer · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Let me ask you something, what *doesn't* constitute a "fully automated" worm? "

      Any worm that requires the user to click on a link on order for the worm to propagate. The scary thing about this class of worms is that it installs a rootkit without activity from a user, so the only rate-limiting step in the infection cycle would appear to be buddy lists. So, you're on someone's buddy list... you get infected without taking any action. Then, boom, all your buddies are belong to them. &c.

      Educated users know better than to click just any link they see -- we depend on that to limit propagation. But it doesn't apply here.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  12. Problem with older hardware, operating systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With new hardware and operating systems supporting NX (no execute), wouldn't the effects of a buffer overflow be minimized? I may be crazy, but I thought that this was the entire point behind NX.

  13. Re:Evolution baby by Biking+Viking · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Intelligence is such a relative term isn't it?

  14. Re:Do these things affect non-AIM apps? by chroot_james · · Score: 3, Informative

    You're less likely to suffer from the attack, but you're not safe. Attackers would most likely go for Windows AIM / MSN / Yahoo long before they go for an open source im client on a mac.

    --
    Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
  15. I have the solution... by 0110011001110101 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Simply IM me at w0rMzH0seTer and I'll give you all the details...

    --
    Don't anthropomorphize computers: they hate that.
  16. Re:I cant take any more of this by Darkon · · Score: 4, Informative


    Is the 'administrator' account privilege - which a majority of Windows user accounts are - not an equivalent to root?

    Strictly speaking the Windows equivalent of 'root' is the hidden 'LocalSystem' account.

  17. Re:I cant take any more of this by platyduck · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to the Slashdotter's god, Wikipedia:

    Generally now the term is not restricted to Unix based operating systems, as tools that perform a similar set of tasks now exist for non-Unix operating systems such as Microsoft Windows (even though such operating systems may not have a "root" account).

    I work in the IT department at my college, and in the last week, have encountered two machines infected with this worm. Easily detected as it may be to the expert user, it is a rootkit, hiding from detection. If I had not recognized it, it would have been undetected, as the automated scanning tools did not report it.

  18. Re:Do these things affect non-AIM apps? by wvitXpert · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your safe. Not because Adium can't be compromised, but because no one cares enough to do it.

  19. Why does the OS let software be invisble? by G4from128k · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This rootkit hides itself from the user and anti-malware. Why should any software be allowed to run invisibly? I really want to know.

    It seems to me that a well designed OS should NEVER let a piece of code be invisible. There should be some part of the OS that knows what is running, what invoked it, what file it came from, etc. A well designed OS would know the provenance of every segment of code. This information should be read-only to anything outside of this protected monitoring function. Thus ALL running code would be visible to the user and anti-malware software. And if you add hash-code locks on installed software, then malware wouldn't be able to masquerade as some other normal bit of code or damage anti-malware apps. Malware could still hide in a user-downloaded software, but the tracking function would aid the detection and removal of any unwanted code.

    Is there ever a good reason to let software be invisible?

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Why does the OS let software be invisble? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, you want to create a Function entry point to return a table of ULTIMATE_PROCESS information.
      What do you think happens when some miscreant (with root access) replaces that jumppoint in memory with one of his own UTLIMATE_PR0CESS function?
      Remember, we are not talking about ROM systems here, all system commands are loaded into RAM.

      Consider a much simpler situation:

      You use the dir command to list the contents of a folder.

      Somebody could replace that command on disk with a dodgy one that runs the original dir command, but filters its results and hides all files starting with "hax0r_".

      The only real way to be able to check and identify if a system has been rooted is to examine from the outside.
      Keep a boot cd handy.
      Currently however, rootkits have bugs and limitations in their scope and do not cover every track, hence rootkit detection is semi feasible for now (in Windows at least).

      The most sneaky bit of malware I have heard about recently is the semirootkit included inside some Sony protected CDs.
      Have a read here for an investigation (this story may explode in the next few days - it looks really telling).

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    2. Re:Why does the OS let software be invisble? by SSalvatore · · Score: 5, Insightful
      That's the beauty of rootkits. They modify the normal operation of an OS; yes, even one that does not allow "invisible processes" (to give it some same). Here is a short and informal explanation (where there is probably an accuracy compromise for simplification purposes):

      At a user level, to "see" a process, you would open the task manager (Windows) or use the PS command in Unix. But you must note that these are merely applications that ultimately make a call to a OS level API and request this information; then they display whatever this API returns them.

      The OS level API is just a piece of code that will have access to the internal OS data structures that hold the information for the processes. This code would piece together a response with the processes names, etc. and return this "list".

      So, what would happen if I go and modify the code that pieces together this list of processes and omit the "worm.exe" process everytime? Well, that's pretty much a rootkit virus strategy.

      The result is that you wouldn't be able to see the process anywhere. Any program that uses this OS API call would not see the process, be it ps, the Task Manager or an Antivirus.

      So . . . why not providing every program with a direct access to the running processes structures so that they can "see" all the information there and "figure out" by themselves whether there is a virus or not.

      Well . . . that's a disaster from a security standpoint since it would provide an avenue for viruses to exploit. And this "direct access" is never direct, it is always through another OS API that may in turn be modified to hide the virus . . .

      So . . . why not scanning the disk?, I mean, the virus must be stored somewhere if it will run.

      Well . . . file access is done by an OS call that may be modified to hide the virus.

      So . . . why not doing an OS module that performs an CRC check and make sure that the OS APIs have not been modified?

      Well . . . this too can be modified not to include the file that you infected in the first place.

      So . . . why not making OSs "unmodifiable".

      Well . . . how would you then install it in the first place? (that is pretty much a modification) or install security updates? (that's another modification).

      So . . . Well . . . ad infinutum.

      I think I made my point.

      Anyways, the bottom line is that you can only do all those modifications *if* you have privileges to modify system files. You have to have "root" access for that. So once you have broken the security of an OS to the point where your virus can modify OS system files, you are pretty much doomed.

      Ideally, the solution is a secure operating system, where regularly you run your user programs with an account whose privileges do not include modifying OS files and any processes that you start cannot breach that security (again *ideally*). You would only use the root account to do OS installs and updates (if the virus gets you while you are at it, you are doomed again, so shut down AIM!).

      That's why Windows is so dangerous, because the normal XP user is running with an Administrator account (similar to having root privileges), so any application that is infected can potentially cause a root-level infection.

      And then, no matter how much you program securely, the missing piece as usual is education. At some point, even in the ideal OS, the user would have to log in with the root account to do OS changes or at least explicitly authorize in some manual way the modification of system files (that would be my choice just to make things easier to learn for everyone in the real world).

  20. Re:Do these things affect non-AIM apps? by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 4, Informative

    "I use Adium. Should I be worried?"

    I doubt it, because any malicious program that wants to alter OS X's settings is going to have to prompt you for an administrator password (unlike Windows). Besides, it's likely that any such worm will target official IM clients rather than third-party apps.

    --
    He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
  21. A rootkit doesn't need the OS to "let" it... by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "This rootkit hides itself from the user and anti-malware. Why should any software be allowed to run invisibly? ...It seems to me that a well designed OS should NEVER let a piece of code be invisible."

    The point of a rootkit is that it alters the behaviour of the OS. Sure, a pre-rootkit kernel wouldn't have let just any code run. But once the rootkit gets in (one way or another), it alters the OS's behaviour. Just like the Sony audio CD rootkit (mentioned in a previous Slashdot article) alters the behaviour of Windows to keep certain kinds of files invisible.

    --
    He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
  22. IM worms go undetected by rizzo420 · · Score: 4, Informative

    i think a bigger part of the problem, and hopefully this will open their eyes, is that thus far, the big anti-virus companies (symantec and mcafee) will not include IM worms in their definitions. this means that even if you have the most up-to-date windows security patches, and the most up-to-date anti-virus software, you can still be infected by the IM worm. i don't understand why they won't include them as they are, in my opinion, just as dangerous and propogate on their own just like normal email viruses. i deal with the "AIM virus" on a near-daily basis. i keep sending people to download AIMFix. this guy is getting some serious hits to his site, and he's not getting paid for it... these are real viruses, since the definition of a virus is that it gets onto your computer and propogates on it's own. this just doesn't use traditional means (email, network ports). even if you uninstall instant messenger, it's still there waiting to send itself to everyone on yoru buddy list.

    --
    please me, have no regrets.
  23. Re:I cant take any more of this by jav1231 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Oh brother. This is largely splitting hairs, people. In the general sense, admin equivilents are about as root like as they come. You're comparing two different systems so being precise is an impossibility.

  24. Partial cheap solutions: low-profile + firewall by davidwr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A cheap albeit incomplete solution, one which will make the virus-writers work much harder:

    1. Encourage people to use non-high-profile clients. It's a lot easier to "take over the world" if 90% of the people are using the same client with the same vulnerabilities than if 30% are using client A, 20% each are using clients B, C, and D, and the remaining 10% are using a variety of other clients.

    2. Put a firewall between the application and the network. Again, don't have 90% of the world use the same firewall. It's best if at least part of the firewall sits in front of the OS, i.e. a hardware firewall or a "host-OS-based" firewall in virtual/emulated-hardware environment.

    Here's what I see happening in a few years time, when virtualization becomes the norm:

    1) everyone has a hardware firewall built into their cable/dsl/whatever box
    2) PCs boot into a hypervisor, see #4 below
    3) apps run in different security contexts, each having the network, memory, and disk-access privilages that they need and no more. For example, Solitaire will have no disk or network access. A Web browser will have very limited disk access and outgoing-only network access only over certain ports. A "local-only" web browser will be available for reading local html files.
    4) The user will be encouraged to run certain applications like web browsers in a "lock box" which will in reality be a virtual machine, with its own firewall mechanism. Multiple VM implimentations or VM-hardening-products will be available so no single VM-related exploit will be shared by "90% of the world." The user will be able to "reset" his lock box at any time, erasing any viruses and malware that have infected it but which haven't "escaped" the VM environment.

    Yes, the user can still be infected and yes, he can still be contagious, but instead of "everyone" being vulnerable only a part of the world will be. Furthermore, if people use the VM-lockboxes, they can "cure" themselves quite easily from the most common problems. They'll still need security software for the really nasty stuff, and they'll always need a "boot CD" or equivalent to do a full scan of their system for rootkits and such.

    Remember: The goal isn't to wipe out viruses - that's practically impossible. It's to reduce your risk and decrease your recovery time.

    Here's an example of how #4 can reduce exposure for web browsing:
    Say 90% of people run Windows-2010 or whatever. When they run their web browser, they get to pick from:
    IE under Windows VM
    Opera under Windows VM
    Opera under {pick one of many} Linux VMs
    Opera under {pick one of many} BSD VMs
    Firefox under {pick one of many} {pick Linux, Windows, or BSD} VMs
    {insert other web browser here} under {insert operating system here} VM.

    The VM would be bare-bones, just having essential services - including a built-in firewall - and a "screen" that just displayed the web browser. The user wouldn't necessarily see he was under a VM if he was merely browsing. If the web-browser screen output were "exported" to the "main" OS a la X, so much the better, assuming that didn't introduce security holes of its own.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  25. Unless there's an exploit of course by davidwr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ANY network-facing application with an exploit should be presumed vulnerable to an automated attack until proven otherwise.

    ANY network-facing application should be presumed to be exploitable until proven otherwise.

    ANY application should be presumed to be network-facing until proven otherwise.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  26. Re:I cant take any more of this by codeshack · · Score: 2, Funny

    Of course, quoting that (or any) Wikipedia article is trivial, since you might have just changed it to say that.

    Damn you, Wikipedia!

  27. Re:Evolution baby by meringuoid · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Damn. Extended phenotype. grr. Got me there. In which case the actual evolution is not taking place on the internet at all, and the viruses themselves are not actually the interesting structures. We're looking at the egg and missing the chicken. The evolving entities are memes, evolving in the minds of hackers...

    So, a memestructure known as 'Virus A' arrives on the computer of Hacker 0. He reverse-engineers it; now it is resident in the brain of Hacker 0. There it breeds furiously, producing countless offspring with random mutations. These are subject to natural selection in the environment of the hacker's brain, because the hacker knows what makes a virulent virus and what makes a feeble failure. In this phase the virus is benign, a bit like malaria not harming the mosquito; Hacker 0's brain does not crash.

    Eventually a mutant form of the virus arises in the brain of Hacker 0; natural selection against the constraints of Hacker 0's security knowledge has produced a fitter version of the virus. At this point Virus B is released into the wild.

    It's an interesting lifecycle. Like many infectious agents it behaves differently depending upon the host in which it finds itself. Once a population is isolated for a long while (in the brain of a hacker) it may diverge and eventually form a new species, possibly replacing the ancestral population once re-released... The analogy with biological evolution is certainly quite strong.

    Unfortunately, I've implicitly reduced all human thought to the rapid reproduction and mutation of meme-structures, and originality to the production of an unusual mutation. Maybe this is true, but it's probably taking reductionism too far, like explaining the working of a car in terms of quark-gluon interactions. Treating a virus hacker as an malevolent intelligent mind intent on causing mayhem will probably get us a more reliable model of computer virus epidemiology.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  28. Re:Do these things affect non-AIM apps? by Malc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unless it exploits another remote or local security hole that hasn't been patched.

    Besides, your statement about Windows is rather generic and so incorrect. I logon as a normal (i.e. limited) user, so unless there's an unknown security hole (every exploit known so far uses a known security hole and I patch quickly) then my whole system will not be compromised. My local account might be affected, but that concept applies to OS X too.