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Windows and Linux User Interfaces
Anonymous Coward writes "Greg Raiz, Boston based interface designer and former Microsftie takes a look at Linux and outlines key shortcomings and strengths of an OS that could take on a giant."
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You can have your cake and eat it too.
Linux has to made more useable "out of the box", expert users can always strip-down their install or use only certain tools or pick "expert" distros.
No harm is done (to expert users) if a smart company decides to release a user-friendly linux distro.
"The core mantra should be: "Simple and easy in everything we do, but give me a command line and I can move the world.""
I'm guessing he hasnt spent a lot of time in OS X then. Especially since he says in the article that Apple took the simplistic (ie not technical) approach.
___ In the words of Gen. Douglas McArthur: "I'll be right back."
Like on Apple OS X. If you want to install an Application you can normally drag and drop it in your application folder (easy enough). But if you wanted to you can go into the terminal and do a ./configure; make; sudo make install
Just because there is a easy way it doesn't stop you from doing it the hard way. Having an easy option usually save the person time in deployment.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Of course, as reasonable people, we all understand that he means LINUX distributions rather than the LINUX kernel.
I think he makes a good point that the clean solution is always better than trying to support older decisions that turned out to be less than ideal. But the problem is, users aren't interested in details. Details don't matter. They only want something to work, and keep working.
Most modern interface elements are implemented by most toolkits. I think a solution would be to take the concept of the X server, which implements low level functionality available via byte stream communications, and implement much higher level concepts using the same idea. Rather than linking in libraries (and tying your graphical concepts to one language - C for GTK, C++ + custom weirdness for QT) have an X server analog that can speak in terms of Menus, Canvas w/ Scrollbar, Button, Text Input, Text Output, etc. Instead of Xlib (or clx in Lisp) you would have a much, much higher level communication protocal. Language bindings for C, C++, what have you would build on the primatives and higher level widigets provided by this X-server plus, and themes and other details would no longer be different because of what language binding you happened to be using. Translating code between languages would also be much easier, since concept names in different languages could all build off of the standard in the server.
Look sometime at the problems people have writing Python bindings for QT. I think the idea of a high level graphical object server with server side theme configuration would take us a long way towards a common desktop look and feel.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
There ya go! This is the core of the Linux problem. Everyone sees Linux vs. Windows, and in this battle, I have little doubt Linux would win. But that's just not what it's all about. Linux is a kernel, not an OS. The problem is the Linux OSes fragmentation. There is not one, but many Linuxes fighting for the crown, and this is weakening their common kernel: Linux.
;)
If only SuSe, Red Hat, Debian and Mandrake could just agree on some STANDARDS !!! For crying out loud, everyone is bashing microsoft for not adopting an "open" standard (actually plenty of them) but the key distros cannot even agree on a common way to distribute and install an application. How can anyone blame Microsoft when the exact same idiocy is happenning in their supposedly "perfect" open-source world?
</rant>
Write boring code, not shiny code!
"Linux to be 100% RISK FREE. If you don't like it you need to be able to easily uninstall and your computer will be exactly the same as before you started." So linux should use a fat32 fs so it can be "uninstalled"? Try installing XP and "restoring" win98 or win2k. If you want to tryout linux use knoppix, it's stupid to expect _any_ OS to adopt a deprecated fs from another OS in order for a user to be able to "restore" his old OS. Don't put absurd requirements for Linux that the latest MS Windows can't accomplish..
I can do the same under Windows, yet Windows has a central installation architecture. Why is that? Dependencies, for one. If a program has no dependencies or externals, I can just extract and run the binary (in fact, a lot more programs under Windows work this way than one would think).
The OS should ensure that applications are installed before they can be executed.
I don't know of any OS that requires that one. However, that isn't an arguement against the former part of the excerpt, which is the only part I'm addressing.
Linux as a whole needs one. Something that lets joeuser download a file (ONE) from the net, run the file, and it installs everything needed for the program downloaded and runs correctly the first time on any modern linux platform. I still can't do that on SUSE even for most programs.
Compare to the Windows world. You can download a single file (a self-installing executable file) from the net and assume it will work on any modern windows platform (2K/XP/2K3). In fact, the only things I can think of as exceptions off the top of my head are ports from Linux to Windows.
--- Ãther SPOON!
He makes it sound so simple, doesn't he?
Writing a complete VB clone isn;t as simple as writing an IDE. VB 6 worked because of the underlying Windows infrastructure — ADO, Access, COM, and all those other acronyms that could be glued together with VB to make an application. VB provides a great environment for hacking together in-house and vertical market applications. It's good for rapid prototyping, too.
The Unix world has some very strong biases that make cloning VB difficult, not the least of which is a general prejudice that all VB code sucks. I've worked in shops with VB programmers (I'm a C++ guy), and saw some darned ugly code; the anti-VB prejudice has some basis in fact. Be that as it may, VB is a powerful force that locks many developers into Windows. If any of this code is to move to Linux, we would need to replicate the entire foundation of acronyms used in VB programs — a daunting task that most Unix-oriented folk will find unpalatable.
In part, Mono was trying to accomplish Windows-Linux interoperability, albeit using .Net as the foundation. Mono, however, does not address the vast quantity of VB 6 applications. And Mono's viability is still open for debate, given Microsoft's proprietary attitudes.
A while back, I was tried to sell the idea of a FOSS Access and VB to several major Linux "players", without success. Perhaps my pitch just wasn't that good, or maybe, just maybe, Unix people really are letting their prejudices get in the way of a Really Good Idea.
All about me
Time for the FOSS community to start working on OpenOSX.
"The MAJORITY of all new servers today are slated to run Linux.
This is not going to change, I repeat, it will NOT change."
Right, because nothing better than Linux at running servers will ever come along. By the way, what OS always has the best uptimes? Linux right...
"How can you call Linux a "niche" OS?"
Because all of the estimates I have found place Linux desktop usage somwhere between 3 and 6%. If you need to ask now, it's because you don't understand what "niche" means.
"First off, Linux, or rather GNU/Linux, is an operating system KERNEL."
Man, you lost that battle years ago, give it up already.
"But more importantly, it is hugely successful and I am personally offended"
And NOW, FINALLY we get to the crux of the issue. YOU are personally invested, so rather than accept honest criticism, you get "offended" because someone spoke unfavorably about your hobby, and you feel that criticizing Linux is equivalent to criticizing you.
I'm feeling snarky, so I'm tempted to say that's patheitc. But I won't.
What I will say is that of that's the best argument you have, then Linux had better have someone else arguing for it. Luckily it does.
They only made one.
I do admit that VB may not be the best thing around, but it is fairly easy to learn, and it can get some simple jobs done. And I would venture that VB meets the minimum set of requirements of a programming language as defined by Turing himself.
So, VB is not for you. Thank you for deciding what is best for the whole world. For your next trick, please tell us what the solution is for world hunger or poverty.
Next, I suppose that you will be saying that VI is the only real editor, and anybody who uses anything else is dumb.
I apologive for appearing trollish, but this sort of attitude is quite annoying.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Some of his comments are good, some are abysmal:
There is an opportunity for the open source community to create a VB compatible IDE that could compile applications for both to Windows and Linux.
Please, by all the gods you believe in, NO!. The very last thing we need is all this crappy VB stuff on Linux. VB is - by rights - famous for the shoddy software created with it. And don't tell me you can write good software with VB, the fact is that the vast majority of VB software are abominations that should've never left the author's imagination.
Entice users with well thought out end to end solutions
That entire chapter would've been much shorter if he had simply written: "Look to OSX for ideas on how to do it right, and to Windos for ideas on what to avoid at all costs".
Users are forced to untar, un-gzip, copy, configure and sometimes compile in order to properly install software.
Has the dude used any Linux distribution during the past 5 years or so? Now I do compile stuff occasionally, but then I want to be on the bleeding edge and some of that stuff was written by me. Almost all actual applications I use rely much more on apt-get and dselect than on tar and gzip.
Linux should stop copying Microsoft feature for feature and embrace the differences and features that advanced users love.
YES. Besides some of the stupid comments, he's got the basics right. Hey, wait. Some of us have been saying this for years. The problem is that too many decision makers in both KDE and Gnome believe copying windos is the road to heaven.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org