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Online vs. Traditional Degrees?
Justin Rainbow asks: "As a computer science student, avid internet user and full-time programmer I find it very appealing to finish my CS degree online. Finishing at least a year early and studying whenever I want are just a couple of the draws to the online campus. However, are these internet degrees even worth the paper their printed on? Is an online degree just a waste of money? Can an online degree give you just as many opportunities as a traditional university? Has anyone in the Slashdot community graduated from one of these online schools? Did it help or hurt your career? What about graduate school admissions? Does an online degree hurt your chances to get into a great graduate school?"
There are other options too. Some major universities offer courses exclusively online in addition to the traditional classroom so you may want to consider that.
Most traditional universities now offer online degrees. Thus you don't have to go to a "Internet College". Even Dartmouth, Harvard and Berkeley offer them.
Depending on what kind of degree you want to pursue, an online degree definitely can be equivalent to a "traditional" degree. I have a B.S. from Rochester Institute of Technology, and completed my entirely at night through their Distance Learning program while I was working for a software company full-time. Because it's an accredited school and my degree was "work related," I was even able to use tuition reimbursement from work to pay for it.
When I decided to go to law school (2nd tier), the fact that I had earned my distance learning degree wasn't even mentioned (yes, I was accepted). In my case, there is no difference between my degree and the same degree earned on campus.
I'm certain there will be a lot of naysayers who are convinced that all online degrees are worthless, but it's not true. It depends on the school (accredited, etc.) and the type of degree you're looking for. Even if you're just looking for a way to get some extra credits, most schools will let you take DL courses from an accredited school and transfer them into your program.
Do your research and you'll find there are a lot of legitimate options out there. John Bear has written some good books about where to get quality distance learning education.
The two courses I'm involved in do not have on-campus counterparts, but more than half of the students enrolled are in on-campus programs and it works just the same as any other course for them.
I'm sorry, but I have to take exception to this... I attended an average university to receive my B.S. in Computer Science, but while working there managed to score a paid co-op at a large technology corporation; they were impressed with my work, and hired me full-time upon graduation. I am not saying this to toot my own horn, but it is hardly a "shit job at Walmart"; I'm sure many other Slashdotters can give you similar stories. If you were trying to troll, then Bravo! You succeeded in pissing me off.
If you weren't trying to troll, then you're just a dumbass, in which case I will take advice from Dogbert, and say "Meh".
"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
Okay. I'm biased. Not only am I currently enrolled in an online Masters program (In Education), I work for a university that has a considerable online presence.
No, I'm not telling you which one.
That being said, yes, an online degree is worth it. You have the opportunity to have constant contact with your classmates and your teacher throughout the program, instead of waiting days to see them (especially if you commute to campus). The online curriculum has to be just as good, if not better, then what you would find at a brick and mortar university, because of the "stigma" that is attached to the online format. There is also the fact that online universities tend to have more up-to-date information, because they are working in real-time. You can be immediately discussing what you read on Slashdot with your classmates, and point them to the links so that they can read it, too!
There's a lot of networking that goes on in an online classroom, because most of them are "accelerated programs" (ours are 5 week undergraduate classes, and 6 week graduate classes). In that scenarios, you have a dedicated team that you work with. Within the team, there are relationships made, both professional and personal. This past year, we had a marriage proposal at graduation. They met in class, and were on the same team. We've also had jobs come out of inter-team relationships.
And then there's the important part. Accreditation. ALWAYS ask about the accreditation! What you are looking for is regional accreditation, which is the highest type there is. Regional accreditation answers directly to the US Dept of Education. (National accreditation is actually a step below regional - no, I don't know why it's backwards like that). If an online school holds regional accreditation, it's educational value and weight is the same is if it were Harvard or Yale. It just doesn't have the weight of years behind it.
Hope this helps!
"Choosy browsers choose
Joe-sixpack type steps onto the Harvard campus looking for a restroom and asks a student/professor/degree-up-the-ass-type, "Excuse me, where's the bathroom at?"
Student/professor/degree-up-the-ass-type says, "Here at Harvard, we don't end a sentence with a preposition."
Joe says, "OK then, where's the bathroom at, asshole?"
Lighten up, asshole. ;-)
Shouldn't you be doing something useful?
The Open Source community is a perfect example of lots of online groups in the real world.
Could you clarify why you feel it's not possible to achieve group collaboration with an online education ?
__________________________________
Free your mind - Flush your toilet
To be fair, his error wasn't "gramatical," but stylistic. A bunch of Englishmen a few hundred years ago decided that people ought not to end sentences with prepositions in English because that isn't how Latin was written. However, "the paper they're printed on" and "the paper on which they're printed" are both examples of valid "grammer."
English is easier said than done.
I am an online student at DeVry going for my BS in Computer Information Systems with an option in Computer Forensics. And as for taking classes that are unrelated to computers, my curriculum includes a handful, such as English composition, critical thinking and group work, and several business classes. I am a parent who works full time odd hours so that I can have a place to live and food for my family, thus the reason for online. The Critical Thinking and Group work class I took last semester required me to work with 4 other people online (me from Michigan, one from Connecticut, one from Texas, and one from Florida), to collaborate, solve, and prepare a presentation about a fictional company that had a problem. I personally, think that working in groups online can take a lot more than in person; there are more factors to take into account than in face2face group work. I think I took more away because of that, also, I am seeing more and more collaboration between companies being done across a long distance than as much in person. For the most part, the course work is computers, all of which can be done on any computer... except for exams; there testing software requires windows... a load of crap. I think, though I haven't graduated, that my degree will still mean something when I go for a job. It might not be as heavily weighted as a real class room degree, but it is a degree all the same where I did learn something, and put in more time per day and week than is generally required for a class room degree.
I had my doupts about UoP when my wife started taking these courses, I can assure you she works her ass off. The problem I do see is that its a team effort and more often than not she is doing ALL the work for the team.
Sorry buddy, I started my current job at $110,000. I've been in the Software field for 3 years, and made sure to work hard and create good relationships with those around me. No Ivy League for me. The owner of my current company graduated from the University of Utah (as did I) and his company will make $280 million this year. You are dooming yourself by thinking the way you do.
The real key to online degrees is accreditation. The breakdown is as follows (in order of goodness):
& forumid=13) as well as on specifically on IT and tech degrees. (http://forums.degreeinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?s=& forumid=22)
1. Non-accredited
Stay away from these schools. These schools can vary from solid coursework to send me $50 and I'll send you a degree. You can't be sure. All accredited graduate schools require an accredited degree for admission so this will not help you.
2. State accredited
These are a bit better but still aren't good enough to get into accredited graduate schools. Most employers won't pay for tuition and you the US govt. won't consider you as having a degree with this or an unaccredited degree.
3. DETC accredited degree (Distance Education Training Council)
This is an agency appproved by the US Dept. of Education. These degrees are much better than the above two but still aren't widely recognized especially in academic environments. This is the silver standard of accreditation. These degrees will be harder and require coursework that is expected of someone earning a college degree. Most schools won't accept these for admission to an accredited graduate program (unless it's also DETC approved) but there are many that do. It's the exception to find one that does. Given costs and other opportunities available to get a degree, think hard before going this route and make sure it fits your needs. (Disclaimer: I am enrolled in a DETC school for my Masters in History because they have what I want to study and it meets my needs. My school is also a candidate for regional acccreditation. See #4) These degrees are accepeted by many places for tution reimbursement as well as for getting govt. jobs. They also have been approved for the minimum accreditation for qualifying for officer school for the armed forces.
4. Regional Accreditation
This is the gold standard of accreditation. All the top schools you hear of are appproved by these 6 seperate acreditation bodies. They are:
* Middle States, Association of Colleges and Schools
* New England Association of Schools and Colleges
* North Central Association of Colleges and Schools
* Northwest Association of School and Colleges
* Southern Association of Colleges and Schools
* Western Association of Schools and Colleges
If the degree you choose is accredited by one of these, you are good to go. You can get into any graduate program and won't have any problem with tuition assistance or even getting govt. jobs. You can teach at a university level and can be approved to teach K-12 as well.
Online degrees are being more and more accepted in business today. Many of the top schools in the country are starting to realize that they can make money by offering these programs. Penn State, Univ. of Maryland and even Harvard offer certain degrees in an online format.
There are several schools where you can test out of an entire degree. That's right, TEST OUT OF AN ENTIRE DEGREE. And it's regional accredited. One of these schools is Excelsior College (www.excelsior.edu) They will give credits for MCSE and Cisco exams as well as CLEP, DANTES and other exams you can take for credit.
For more info on these exams and to see how this is possible, take a look at BA in 4 weeks (http://bain4weeks.com/). 4 weeks is a bit aggressive but take a look at the details.
I know, I did it. It took me about 4 months once I enrolled with about 30 credits to finish by BS degree in General Business.
There is a great forum over at www.degreeinfo.com dedicated to distance eduation (http://forums.degreeinfo.com/forumdisplay.php?s=
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BS General Business, Excelsior College 2003
MA Military Studies, American Military University (in progress)
I'm pursuing a degree online in CMIS at University of Maryland, University College. They have a well respected Distance Education curriculum, and handle a contract for Continuing Ed with the Department of Defense.
Most of my classmates are in the military. I'm taking classes online with an Army Sargent who's working in Counter Intelligence, several soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, a patent lawyer in Maryland as well as a Senior Network Engineer at Fannie Mae. Most of us finishing our degrees at UMUC are doing so online, because we can't go to school any other way.
My Data Structures and Abstractions professor has published over 30 papers in the past 8 years.
Last fall I received an email from the NSA, asking me to apply for their Information Assurance Scholarship Program, because of my GPA and the fact that the school that I attended was a Center of Excellence for Computer Science. The scholarship was a full ride plus $10,000 a year as a stipend—as an undergrad. I declined to apply, because I don't want to sell my soul to Uncle Sam for the 4 years after school.
I'm putting in at least 30 hours a week on my schoolwork while I'm holding down a full time job as a Emergency Room nurse.
When I graduate, my diploma will say that I've graduated from the University of Maryland.
Online Education = Diploma mill, my ass
From the CMU Phd in computer science application page.
"Submit three letters of recommendation. Recommenders should know you relatively well and be able to evaluate the quality of your previous work. At least two should be from faculty or recent employers. With the online application, letters will be requested and submitted electronically. Letters of recommendation are due by January 3. All deadlines are final. Letters received after this date may not be considered in the review of your application."
As I've said, most require two or three. I've never heard of a program which reqires more than that.
Wanted: Clever sig, top $ paid, all offers considered.
As I said, this is a yellow flag, not a red one. We recognize that it's possible to be a great software engineer without even having a CS degree, much less a degree from a good school (we have such people on our staff right now). But if we had to choose who to interview between two otherwise equally-qualified candidates, we'll give the interview to the candidate with the "traditional" degree.
One final caveat -- your degree matters much less than your experience. If you have five years of experience in a field we're interested in, we won't even ask about your college projects or your grades.
-- Bandannarama
Bandannarama
I study with the open university, I have also studied in the past at a brick & mortar university and a college.
Now I am not sure to what extent you can call the open university an online university. Many courses have no requirement for internet access.
The structure of modules within the open university is a number of written assignments (some courses allow these to be submitted electronically)followed by an end of year exam .
It very much parallels my brick and mortar experience except it doesn't have the student union bar. This is an important component in brick and mortar institutions because its where students discuss the material presented in that days lectures.
you see one advantage of going to a university is the opportunity to pool resources and work out between you what the lecturer was trying to get across.
one persons insight can help you "get it".
The vast majority of the time i spent in my earlier institutions was spent writing as fast as possible trying to make notes and later trying to understand these notes.
now with the open university you are presented with a comprehensive set of course materials often with searchable pdf versions as well plus video's tv programs via the bbc, cassettes and tutorials on a varying time scale. each module you study for you will have a personal tutor. who you can contact when needed and meet up with in the tutorials.
as well as this there are online forums where you can post and discuss different aspects of the course material. these are moderated and can be a crucial source of help when you get stuck. some tutors also contribute to the forums as well. which is better than in the case of a brick and mortar school where often contact is limited to lectures.
not all subjects can be studied this way practical experiments are limited where lab equipment is needed. but not all subjects need lab equipment.
reading and understanding are the key to learning ny subject and the course materials offered by the open university are excellent and great value for money. managing your time is difficult and to have a social life work and study is very hard. you can pick 2 out of the 3.
If you cant study any other way the OU is definately for you and even if you can it might still be a good choice studying while working takes longer than just studying.
In my case I have done some pretty crappy brain dead jobs , fact is the availability of work is limited but we have to eat don't we. The open university for me is key to get ting a better job. I need something which says I have ability and working in a crappy job shows nothing of your ability. getting a degree while working in a crappy dead end job does show determination and ability.
Thats got to be worth something hasn't it?
The OU doesnt sell degree's, people who study with the OU earn thier degree. you get an ou degree by talent not social posistion and how much money daddy has.
BTW the Open University is open to everyone not just people living in the UK. next set of modules starts in Febuary you can get credit for past study and it is something most people outside the "third world" can afford.
www.open.ac.uk
I achieved a MS in Software Development and Management through the Rochester Institute of Technology entirely online. There are positives and negatives, but (for me) the positives outweighed the negatives. When I started working towards the degree I lived in an area without many graduate degree options and I was travelling a lot, so it was pretty much the only option I had short of quiting my job and moving somewhere else.
The amount you learn is dependent on the amount of time you put into it, just like with ANY coursework. The thing that surprised me, and might surprise others, is that the interaction between students was actually greater with the online courses (your mileage may vary, of course). The reason is that in most courses you had to publish short essays that expressed your thoughts. The other students actually had to read and comment on them ("participation" grades generally depended on this). So you had a lot of discussion about various topics. The medium also allowed you to truely think through and research things before engaging in a discussion (just like everyone does here on Slashdot). Granted, the interaction is on a different (non-personal) level.
The major downside is that complex topics are sometimes difficult to communicate. The professors do carry office hours, just like traditional courses, so you can call or IM him/her.
Another thing to consider is that online options are growing significantly. A lot of the skepticism will disappear over time (this is already happening, I think). Most universities have or will get into this due to the economics. The market is quite large for people who want to further their education, but couldn't otherwise do it without a flexible program.
Now your mileage will vary depending on your personality. Are you the type of person who NEEDS a structured environment? If so, then this might not be for you.
I'd have to agree with those who suggest against the online option for undergrad work, but it really depends on your situation (i.e. what are your alternatives?)
Anyway, good luck.
http://www.ossc.state.or.us/oda/unaccredited.html
This is a website maintained by the University of Oregon that details all the SCAM online Universities for you. So, this is important to check out first, before you spend any money online.
Also, having checked them out, I consider University of Phoenix a lousy University, as their teaching methods are suspect for technical degrees. I found that out when I interviewed as a teacher with them.