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Unisys: We No Longer Have A Way Out

rbochan writes "Some of you may recall a couple of years back when Microsoft and Unisys decided that a multi-million dollar ad campaign against *nix was in order, dubbed 'We Have A Way Out.' The results weren't what they'd hoped. ZDNet is now reporting that Unisys has done an about face and is now touting Linux as 'a mature technology and the right cost-effective option for many companies.'"

33 of 196 comments (clear)

  1. Is the market really moving? by electrosoccertux · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is it just me and all the articles I'm reading on slashdot, or is the market truly getting ready for a serious Microsoft ousting? All the things are lining up...google, new Firefoxes, OpenOffice...

    The world follows the tech people, and the tech people say its time to ditch Microsoft. I see something happening.

    1. Re:Is the market really moving? by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You said it, but I don't think you understood it -

      The tech people say it's time to ditch Microsoft.

      The business people don't necessarily get it. I talked to a guy yesterday who owns a group of companies such as an ISP, a computer repair shop, computer retail sales shop, web design firm, and business tech consulting company. He was showing me a home-grown web application that was quite impressive... until I asked him if it worked on Firefox. He laughed, looked at me and said, "No. Why would I support a browser with less than 1% of the market share?" I corrected him - 11% according to recent articles and as high as 40% on many of my clients' websites. His response was something along the lines of "when it gets to 40% across the board, I'll consider supporting it."

      The point is, he's a business owner in our industry. He's a smart tech guy, but he's fully adopted Microsoft and defends its use. He can make a strong case for them to his clients, which are many. Business people don't see the world the same way that the tech folks do.

    2. Re:Is the market really moving? by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      until I asked him if it worked on Firefox. He laughed, looked at me and said, "No. Why would I support a browser with less than 1% of the market share?" I corrected him - 11% according to recent articles and as high as 40% on many of my clients' websites. His response was something along the lines of "when it gets to 40% across the board, I'll consider supporting it."


      He doesn't have to "support" firefox, or IE or any one browser. He just has to write standard, correct HTML and do a little more testing in different browsers.

      Really, what costs more, loosing even 1% of his online sales, or doing the above?

  2. It didn't? by LaughingCoder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From the article:

    The same ad depicts a scene in which a computer user has painted himself into a corner with purple paint. Sun's servers are manufactured in a shade of purple similar to that in the ad.

    Sun responded to the campaign in a statement. "Sun still does not see Microsoft as a real threat in the datacenter market where reliability, availability, serviceability and security are key," the company said. "As for Unix being 'inflexible,' 'expensive,' and 'complex,' we feel those are terms much better suited to the closed and proprietary world of Windows."


    Well, if the target was Sun as the article suggested, it seems to me things worked out just dandy from Microsoft's perspective. I would venture to say that Microsoft's market penetration in datacenters has grown quite a bit since 2002, while I'm equally certain Sun's has faded.

    --
    The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    1. Re:It didn't? by photon317 · · Score: 4, Interesting


      Sun has lost datacenter shares to Linux, not to Microsoft. Windows just isn't even in remotely the same ballpark as *nix for the kinds of things most people deploy *nix for in datacenters. I've never really heard of any significant cases of people migrating significant services from *nix to windows in the datacenter, other than "business" windows desktop services like company email, company file sharing volumes, etc. At most companies that matter, internal business services are just a small thing running in the corner somewhere compared to whatever domain-specific thing it is they really do with most of their hardware.

      Even on the business desktop services side, I suspect we're (finally) seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. As more US states, foreign governments, and eventually the US feds adopt document standards like OpenDocument that OOo uses and start embracing the idea that government software must be open-source, the effect will filter down to private business. First to those that contract with the government directly, and then to businesses that in turn contract with them, etc. The net effect of that change will be that the typical corporate desktop will be running OpenOffice, Firefox, Evolution/Thunderbird/Sunbird/etc (or similar in nature/compatibility) software, and the data being interchanged will be flowing in open formats on open protocols (even if, at least initially, the desktop OS itself is still Windows).

      At that point the momentum builds strongly for converting the backend business services off of Windows servers and onto Linux, and off of Windows and onto something better (maybe a future better Linux corporate desktop, or OS/X for x86, or god knows what).

      --
      11*43+456^2
    2. Re:It didn't? by illumina+us · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well... it kind of is

      --
      -illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
    3. Re:It didn't? by Decaff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      By Sun's definition of 'open' it is.

      Stop spreading FUD.

      Solaris is open by the Open Source Initiative's definition. OpenSolaris is released under their definition of open, not Sun's.

  3. I remember when ... by krygny · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... the site first went up. IIRC, it was hosted on Apache on Solaris (or some such *NIX). A day or so later, it was pulled and replaced with IIS on Windows [NT|2000]. After that, I never payed it no nevermind.

    --
    Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
  4. Bloody twits. by Hiro+Antagonist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why running a smear campaigain is a bad idea. Every now and then, it works, but it more often than not comes back to bite you in the ass. You're much better off to say nothing, or to say something that just casts yourself in a positive light.

    Think about it -- you're interviewing two guys for an important job. One talks about all the good things he's done at his last job. The other talks about how screwed up things were and how he 'fixed' them. Who are you going to hire?

    OT: People do this, too; there was an individual (name and gender withheld) at a previous place of employment with a resume filled with things like "Took a mis-managed department and brought it to productivity." Not only was this one of the worst employees we ever hired, but said employee got canned after six months because they did *nothing* but complain about how other departments were stopping them from doing their job.

    The replacement had a more positive mindset, and caught up on the backlog within two months. Needless to say, he got promoted a couple of times.

    --

    --
    I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy .sig.
    1. Re:Bloody twits. by Evro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Think about it -- you're interviewing two guys for an important job. One talks about all the good things he's done at his last job. The other talks about how screwed up things were and how he 'fixed' them. Who are you going to hire?

      Well, if you're looking to hire someone to fix a problem, experience fixing those types of problems seems like something you'd look for. I worked at one place where I literally fixed everything - the production web server was rooted and they had no security features in place, at all. I cleaned everything up, built a firewall and a sane security policy. At my next interview, while I didn't dwell on how bad things were before I started, I made it clear that I "fixed" a lot of stuff.

      --
      rooooar
  5. Unisys needs more PR by klingens · · Score: 3, Funny

    One issue is that the company does not have great visibility outside its core markets. "Customers say, 'We wish you were better known,' and we have to address that," he said.

    That's an easy request: just patent more popular graphics fileformats with submarine patents and then start enforcing them a few years down the line. Instant Press!

  6. Campaign slogan by Slashdiddly · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, it's possible they meant it as in "suicide is a way out". It's true!

  7. Unisys' strategy for growth by rsax · · Score: 4, Funny
    He said the enterprise services company is now focused on four core areas: Enterprise security, real-time infrastructures, open source and the Microsoft market.

    Way to narrow it down.

  8. Just a Thought by Edunikki · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As much as many are devoted to Linux here, isn't this a case of Microsoft has not had a real OS refresh in years while, during that period, Linux has been constantly improving?
    As much as it appears Unisys was in it for the money, it could just be they have reached some kind of tipping point where they believe that Linux now is a viable alternative to MS where they didn't previously. You know, opinions changing when the facts do . . .

  9. World events by matt+me · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ok, lets put the fall of Microsoft in line with world events.

    Peeps returning to the moon - before.
    The US pulling out of Iraq - after.
    The Hitch-Hiker's guide is edited to read 'a species so primitive they still think iPods are a pretty neat idea' - before.
    Wikipedia acquires the majority of human knowledge, only to be wholy corrupted by mass spamming (like our current web) - after.
    The collapse/reformation of the record industry - around the same time, I reckon. Possibly related. It's a similar idea.

    (Ok I have a screwed concept of world events. Real suggestions?)

  10. insider viewpoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A disclaimer: I am a Unisys employee.

    Unisys is definitely making a move towards widespread adoption of Linux (Red Hat and SuSE) as a development platform, and various other open source development tools (eg, Maven, Eclipse, various parts of Apache Commons, etc). Regardless of current marketing hype from Blackmore and McGrath (the CEO), this is very much a bottom-up driven initiative. Open source software is finding itself in an increasing number of Unisys solutions, to the occasional consternation of management. So what you're hearing from the Unisys management publicly now is "hooray, Open Source," but what you would have heard a few years ago was... well, nothing, unless you worked for Unisys, in which case you probably would heard "stay the hell away."

    Note: when I say "finding my way into," I don't mean "being stolen." Unisys is being extremely careful as to what the various license requirements are for the things it's using, so developers and architects are cognizant of the implications of the GPL and other similar "sharealike" licenses where their efforts are concerned. My experience with the developers here has been that they are pretty agnostic about everything except efficacy - they just want the stuff to work, and they want to get it done right for as little money as they can spend. I find that to be a healthy attitude.

    For a guy like me whose roots are pretty heavily in open software, there's more than a little irony here. You may recall Unisys' spat with the Free Software Foundation, or... well, really a whole bunch of people, including Accuweather, over software patent issues.

    One last thing: Peter Blackmore has identified outsourcing as a major component of the Unisys strategy. He's not kidding. Tons of Unisys developers have been axed over the last few years, and much of the development activity has been given to Caritor employees, based either locally at Unisys offices, or in India. The ones I've worked with are good guys, but there's more than a little discomfort between the two groups. Many Unisys folks see his biggest impact on the company as having been the guy who sent Unisys jobs to India.

    1. Re:insider viewpoint by The+GooMan · · Score: 2, Informative

      We just got rid of 4 of the new Unisys Dorados and a couple of Unisys ES7000s. The Dorados were running OS2200 I assume but the ES7000 is loaded with Microsoft stuff. There was Server 2003 on it and a couple of XP instances. At my job I am labeled the Microsoft stooge (just because I don't think that MS and/or Gates is responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened in the history of the world) but I have to admit those ES7000 were total garbage. They replaced some older ClearPaths but everybody yearned for the ClearPaths back. The Dorados were absolute garbage right out of the box. The Unisys field engineers were constantly in to replace boards and stuff. The exec level folks were not happy.

      I have several personal friends who work Unisys and I used to sub-contract for them but the paths they take seem to always be wrong. This brings back memories of me providing Exec, MCB, DPS and TIP support for Unisys.

    2. Re:insider viewpoint by Frumious+Wombat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nice to see the change of heart. A few years ago we wanted an Itanium system for HPC use, and You (you unisys, probably not you personally) had a new SMP box that looked promising. Our code was tuned for SMP, and we wanted to move it off Suns with as little pain as possible.

      LSS: I called up, asked about the machine, got a nice salescritter, and mentioned we wanted to run Unix on it, and the conversation suddenly became a Microsoft sales session. You critter couldn't possibly understand why I wouldn't just rewrite a quarter of a million lines of code so that it could run under an experimental version of Windows, rather than use a non-Microsoft OS. In the end, we bought HP Itania, put up with MPI, used RHEL, and the 6.0 series of Intel compilers, and never looked back.

      Just a touch of vision, and you guys could have been Sun-killers. You could have established yourselves as a reliable supplier of mid-sized 64-bit SMP boxen. As it was, IBM and HP pushed Linux on biggish iron, Dell pushed Win2K on small boxen, and people thought, "why do I want a computer that uses vacuum tubes" when the name Unisys came up.

      You sound like a sane and intelligent person. My best wishes to you (seriously) at Unisys. I worked for a sinking barge once, with a sharp disconnect between the top and the bottom, so you have my sympathy.

      --
      the more accurate the calculations became, the more the concepts tended to vanish into thin air. R. S. Mulliken
  11. Unisys = hoars by Danathar · · Score: 3, Informative

    You may label this as a rant.....

    I worked on Unisys Sperry Mainframe equipment for almost 7 years. I can tell you categorically that Unisys tried every possible way to kill products it's customer wanted. When IBM was bleeding money Unisys had the better Mainframe OS (OS2200). Since then IBM has done more to innovate the mainfame market (moved to CMOS, embrased UNIX/LINUX, enabled OS390 for the Internet world). Meanwhile Unisys tried to get in bed with Microsoft and changed their product line so that anything that was not MS centric was basically a "legacy" platform where they just wanted the old Sperry/Burroughs customer base to dump their investment in older technologies and move to WinNT/Win2k servers.

    The history of Unisys is that they put their finger in the wind see which way it's going and join the crowd YEARS after the initial party is over.

    The only GOOD thing I can say about Unisys is that my contract (I was a Lead computer operator/batch scheduler) ended as a result of them promising equipment to the customer at cut rates that they then dragged their feet delivering...and as a result I quit and found a better job, doing LINUX!....thank you UNISYS!

  12. Microsoft in the DataCenter? Not reliable! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can get certified Unix that is carrier telecom grade certified reliable (99.999%). Same for Linux and Linux embedded. No version of Microsoft operating system has been carrier telecom grade certified. Even though Microsoft in their old 1998 print advertising claim that their NT operating system was 99.999%. So far, Microsoft has never tried to get its current operating system certified for carrier telecom grade use, because it will fail.

  13. This is even more humiliating for Microsoft by johansalk · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;75408 4996;fp;16;fpid;0 It's unofficial: Microsoft bets business on Linux Rodney Gedda 04/11/2005 08:31:35 The next time Bill Gates sends an e-mail through Microsoft's shiny new Wireless LAN it will be passed through a behind-the-scenes Linux-based network appliance. Earlier this year Microsoft and Aruba Networks jointly announced the two companies will work to replace Microsoft's existing Cisco wireless network with Aruba's centrally-managed infrastructure, which eliminates the need for individual changes on the access points. Aruba Networks was selected to provide the networking equipment for what is considered to be one of the world's largest next-generation wireless LANs, serving more than 25,000 simultaneous users a day in some 60 countries. According to an Aruba press statement, Microsoft's new WLAN will be deployed in 277 buildings covering more than 17 million square feet using Aruba mobility controllers, mobility software and some 5000 wireless access points. What the press statement didn't mention is that Aruba mobility controllers run the Linux operating system which Microsoft has aggressively targeted as being inferior to Windows as part of its "Get the Facts" marketing campaign. Mark Robards, Aruba Network's Asia-Pacific vice president, said the company's mobility controller switches provide integrated security, including a firewall, VPN, and hardware encryption, and they are "all Linux-based". Robards said the network rollout with Microsoft is going well and is likely to take two years to complete and will contain as many as 7000 access points. Indeed, Aruba is recruiting Linux developers to work on its mobility controller software. In an advertisement on the company's Web site, Aruba is seeking a senior Linux software engineer with "expert knowledge of Linux and extensive Linux kernel experience". Sunjeev Pandey, senior director of Microsoft IT, said the company is "pleased to be partnering with Aruba in the upgrade of Microsoft's next-generation wireless LAN". "This partnership will allow Microsoft to leverage a cutting-edge wireless and mobility platform that provides us the scalability, performance and security that our environment demands," Pandey said. Pandey's appraisal of Aruba's technology is in stark contrast to Microsoft's "Get the Facts" rhetoric which places Windows as a more secure, and higher-performing choice over Linux.

  14. Games! by tsa · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Need I say more?

    --

    -- Cheers!

  15. One Case Study by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 4, Interesting
    My wife has been looking these last few weeks for a fileserver for her small business -- three empolyees performing accounting and tax preparation. She considered possibly wanting an application server as well as fileserver. The Dell "solution" was close to $3000, with nearly half of that the cost for Microsoft Server 2003. Ouch!

    Have gotten her to finally consider that maybe all she needs is a good chunk of network storage. I've shown her how she can put 400GB of mirrored storage onto the network with long warranties on the disc drives using a NetGear SC101 for $600. She's considering it right now.

    While Unisys may aim towards the higher-end markets than this, a Linux solution with good multiprocessor support and zero cost can make a significant difference in this ever increasingly competative environment -- especially if you're flogging Intel iron against AMD Opterons.

    Besides, some things really do run better on Linux. IIRC Oracle 9i is a prime example.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  16. Punishment for the GIF patent? by argoff · · Score: 2, Interesting

    IMHO, the same forces that caused them to be such jerks about the GIF patent are the same one that caused them to miss the boat with Linux. What many businesses don't understand is that there is far more money out their to be made with IT related services than IT related licensing. To be successfull in the information age, you need to treat the free wheeling free copying nature of the internet like a benefit, not a competitive threat.

    Unfortunately there are still all to many businesses who think that the way that they're supposed to make money is by selling information they create like a boxed product and choking off how it's used. Since their business model is incompatable with the Linux business model, there will likely be far more attcks on Linux, and especially freedom in software and information distribution, down the pike.

    IMHO, copyrights can not survive the information age.

  17. How? Linux. Duh. by Tony · · Score: 2, Informative

    By using Linux, that's how.

    Yeah, I'm a Linux fanboy. Sue me.

    --
    Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
  18. Re:insider viewpoint - Say this with great care !! by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful
    A disclaimer: I am a Unisys employee.

    Not a statement I'd be making casually about any employer these days. With the way the current laws are, companies have been able to mis-use the court system to get subpoenas issued forcing providers to reveal anonymous poster's real names with the alleged intent to pursue a court suit for illegal activities, only to drop said suit once they've identified the poster. Then they harass/fire the formerly anonymous poster.

    One such case can be found here.

    This should be a Slashdot article of its own since the person is now suing for this misuse of the court system -- and I hope he wins big!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  19. Re:But how does M$ do it? by abigor · · Score: 2, Funny

    I guess you're too young to remember "Hacked By Chinese".

  20. The Way Is Shut by drj826 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The way is shut. It was made by those who are free, and the free keep it. The way is shut.

  21. I found it funny by krray · · Score: 3, Funny

    I remember when they first came out with "WeHaveTheWayOut.com" campaign.

    I dutifully registered (expired last year) "TheyDoNotHaveTheWayOut.com"
    and merrily pointed it to go to FuckMicrosoft.com

    Now you know how I feel. :)

  22. Re:How? Linux. Duh. by shish · · Score: 2, Informative
    MS are still using akamai's linux-based services; but linux isn't the point - akamai are just the only company to have that sort of bandwidth management stuff for sale.

    Scanning the main site with lots of un-cacheable dynamicly generated pages:

    > nmap -sV -p 80 www.microsoft.com -P0

    Starting nmap 3.81 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2005-11-05 20:29 GMT
    Interesting ports on 207.46.198.30:
    PORT STATE SERVICE VERSION
    80/tcp open http Microsoft IIS webserver 6.0

    Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 5.690 seconds

    But try one of the image servers:

    > nmap -sV -p 80 i3.microsoft.com

    Starting nmap 3.81 ( http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2005-11-05 20:28 GMT
    Interesting ports on 212.243.221.222:
    PORT STATE SERVICE VERSION
    80/tcp open http AkamaiGHost (Akamai's HTTP Acceleration/Mirror service)

    Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 5.593 seconds
    --
    I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
  23. Ad targets "Unix", not Linux/BSD by crucini · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The ad was targeting commercial Unix, and asserting that it's expensive and inflexible compared to Wintel. In fact, the ad was right.

    Intel/AMD is advancing much faster than proprietary RISC. PC-based servers deliver much better value. Don't use Windows where you can use Linux/BSD (slashdotters cheer); don't use Sun where you can use Windows (slashdotters boo).

    So there's not really an "about face" in Unisys's later support of Linux - its a continued drive away from expensive, proprietary and inflexible systems.

  24. Open Source OR Unix NOT *nix NOT Linux by mrcolj · · Score: 2, Informative

    Did no one notice that the original campaign was against Unix, then the current article was Unisys praising Open Source, and Cowboy Neal interpreted that as an original campaign against everything-nix and a current article pro-Linux? There is just no logical flow to all that.

    Unix, *nix, Linux, and open source are all different subject, and if Unisys hates Unix but likes open source in general, that does not mean they now like Linux. I'm pro-open sourced software because it's good and cheap. That does not mean I love the obfuscated CLI of Unix.

    --
    --Colin Jensen
    colinandbethany.com
  25. There is always a way out... by Linker3000 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Computer, Arch"

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO