Dealing with Digital Music and Vendor Lock-In?

rahuja asks: "Buying and using digital music is a far from easy decision today - there are various competing and incompatible formats, stores and players out there in the market, primarily Apple (AAC + iTunes + iPod), Windows (WMA + various stores + WMA-compatible players), and Sony (Atrac3 + Connect.com + Walkman). How do you then ensure that the music and player you buy today will not be incompatible with your player, online store or the OS?" "Burning to audio CD and ripping back is always possible, but it is a painfully slow process and all tag information (song, album, artiste) is lost in the process.

In the past, I've used Sony Connect [Ed: IE 5.5+ only] (thanks to a $10 card I got with a Sony CD Walkman), which locks you in to Sony-only devices, and later, WMA with MSN Music and a Creative Muvo Micro N200. My player just died, and I'm too scared to lock myself into a new player/format/store now. iPod doesn't have an FM tuner yet, and my WMA tracks will be useless if next year I switch to Mac once the new x86 Powerbooks come out. I'm not sure how real Real's Harmony is, and JHymn doesn't support iTunes 6 yet.

In an ideal world we'd all have OGG-based players with FM tuner, and access to DRM-less music, or at least a universal, compatible format.

How are you dealing with this issue? Or is it just me?"

Comments

Duh... like...

[MouseR]

I burn an audio CD out of iTunes and voilà?

No worry there.

Re:Duh... like...

[callipygian-showsyst]

Almost! Except for cheaper-than-iTunes, I buy USED CDs, and have an original, uncompressed copy that sounds better than any iTunes 128Mbps-compressed tune.

And the types of music I listen to (Classical, "Western Art Music", Jazz, Opera) aren't served well by iTMS anyway.

Re:Duh... like...

[PeterChenoweth]

WAV-encoded CD's are less efficent than MP3's, that's for sure, but I think the point the original author was trying to make is that you use the CD's as a temporary medium. In my case I just use a CD-RW, so there's no ongoing media cost. I tend to purchase an artist's entire CD at one time, rather than just a few tracks, that makes things much easier.

1.Buy & Download from Napster|iTunes|whatever.

2.Use their software to burn a CD of what you just bought, put the tracks in the same order that they are on the real CD. Napster likes to reverse the order, so you have to manually adjust that before you burn the CD. iTunes usually keeps them in the correct order.

3. Rip all of the music back off the CD using your favorite CD-ripper & encoder.

4.If you bought all of the tracks from a specific CD, and if you set up tracks in the right order, most of the time your ripping software will pick up all of the Artist & Track information automatically from CDDB or Gracenote, so you don't have to manually tag everything. Otherwise, you now have to re-tag/re-name files.

5.Erase CDRW.

6.Enjoy your DRM-free audio files.

Re:Duh... like...

[belly917]

Simple.. do your research to live in a DRM free environment

Digital Audio Player
I researched around for an non-cripled (no DRM) player that would mount as a hard drive, allowing access to the music files without the use of any software.

Result:iRiver iHP-120 (which has better audio fidelity, plays more formats, and has many more options than the iPod [digital optical out/input, FM radio, etc.]) Not to mention I'm running rockbox on it so it's a wonderful experience

Music purchases
I buy CDs! I can rip everything in the FORMAT & BITRATE that I choose, and if, God forbid, I lose or destroy my DAP (& the duplicates on my computer) I can re-rip something. Also, if you search around, you can get CD's online for cheap & without tax.

Re:Duh... like...

[bluephone]

Except your end product has now been twice compressed, and thus has lost even more data, and sounds worse than the DRM copy you originally bought - er, licensed. While I did exactly what you describe for the "Come And Get It" EP that I was allowed to download for free when buying Liz Pahir's self-titled album a couple Januarys ago (It came as one big WMA, so I had to DL the WMA, burn to CD, import as WAV, chop it up, then re-encode it), I was still displeased about the lack of MP3 or OGG support, and would never have paid money for the WMA. The only reason I went through that process is because it was free, and the music was good.

Re:Duh... like...

[bobdinkel]

Second of all, use your brain, open the preferences and set the importing prefs to 160 kbps or greater.

I think he was referring to the iTunes Music Store. And to the best of my knowledge the iTMS only offers 128Kbps AAC files.

Drink the Apple Kool-aid...

[losman]

iPod, iTune, iTunes Music Store, and MP3 is your best bet - period!

The player is both Windows and Mac compatible. It allows you access to largest and well known music stores in existence. It allows you to access music, video and TV episodes. It allows you to use MP3 from CDs you own or from other sources - wink..wink..

My wife has her iPod with all of our music and she loves it. We have the airport express with air tunes and play all our music to our stereo system, very cool!

I have my iPod, my wifes old iPod and I use it for the office and the car. I have a 1gb iPod Shuttle that I use when walking around, snow boarding and any other time I want to be portable.

compact discs

[Frymaster]

i buy cds.

solution provided.

Re:compact discs

[JCY2K]

Haven't you been paying attention? Rootkit... soon that provided solution will be nothing but a fond memory. /tinfoil hat

Re:compact discs

[dslauson]

"i buy cds. solution provided."

Yeah, but if you like listening to CDs on your computer, you're going to be butting heads with DMA before long.

Re:compact discs

[ozydingo]

Right, because CDs never have anything related to DRM...

(Just to list a few)

Re:compact discs

[generic-man]

I buy Compact Discs which conform to the Red Book standard, not DRM-encrusted audio discs.

Always look for the CD logo before you buy a useless plastic coaster.

Re:compact discs

[BushCheney08]

...you're going to be butting heads with DMA before long.

That's why I use PIO. : p

Re:compact discs

[crimoid]

Even better, buy used CDs. Same music, 3/4 to 1/2 of the price AND you can almost always sell it back (although at a lower price).

Re:compact discs

[pla]

Yeah, but if you like listening to CDs on your computer, you're going to be butting heads with DMA before long.

You say that as though:
A) Circumventing DRM actually took some effort, and/or
B) I cared about obeying laws bought-and-paid-for by corporate interests.

As neither of those holds true, I'll second the GP's response. I deal with attempts to lock me into vendor-specific formats by buying uncompressed media either with no DRM or with losslessly removeable DRM (which currently means CDs), and ripping it losslesssly (to FLAC).

I can then transcode to whatever format my current player prefers without incuring serially degraded quality from using lossy compression (as much as I don't care for MP3, everything currently supports it so it makes a good choice). When my current player dies, I can get another and at worst (if it doesn't support old-player's-preferred-format), I'll need to let my PC run overnight transcoding from the original FLACs to the new-player's-preferred-format.

Re:compact discs

[bluephone]

Oh come on. We all know CD DRM is useless. If you're on Windows and still have AutoPunish - er, AutoPlay turned on, just hold shift while you insert the disc. Then use your favorite CDR or CD-ripping software to grab the PCM audio. CD-DRM is the most useless and ill-aimed DRM ever, as it TRULY only punishes those users who are too uninformed to know better. ANYONE with moderate PC knowledge can get around it. And if you're on a Mac or Linux, you're home free without any workarounds.

Easy

[Eightyford]

Just buy a digital audio player that supports mp3 or ogg, and don't buy from the vendors that lock you in.

How is this different?

[mtec]

Than buying an 8 track and then they come out with tape, CD etc?

Re:How is this different?

[oldmacdonald]

But digital _IS_ different. The promise of digital data of all sorts is that you should be able to keep it around forever. You might have to transfer it to your new holographic 20 terabyte drive at some point, but that should just copying files over, which is trivial provided you do it before your obsolete hardware fails. To believe that this is just like any other "format war" is to buy into the premise of DRM.

Buy /Borrow CD, rip CD

[gatzke]

Unless you keep everything as a mp3 or some other format without DRM, you are doomed.

You want it easy(iTunes, DRM whatever) you get locked in. Eventually, things will go south and you will lose that investment.

I have hundreds of CDs that I should be able to rip again and again. Maybe someday I will upgrade to 256k rips, or maybe I lose my HDs and have to re-rip... Either way, I own the CD and it is mine to do with as I please.

Five copies and you can't move it again? WTF? Crazy that you even bought into that stuff.

I don't buy music

[davidwr]

I don't steal music, but I don't buy it either.

It's my way of sticking it to the RIAA.

Re:I don't buy music

[Saige]

Last.fm is a great way to expand your musical horizons, and introduce yourself to new artists that you're very likely to find enjoyable.

I've been using the site for a year, and not only finding great new music, finding it on smaller labels (such as Projekt), and even independent artists (Hungry Lucy, Collide). In fact, I'm finding a lot of these artists that I like better than just about any RIAA crap, because the ones recommended to me are very tailores to my tastes by the site.

All of....

[wpiman]

allofmp3.com allows you to pick whatever format you desire.

I choose mp3 because it works everywhere.

Re:All of....

[gurutechanimal]

You know, all this talk of voting with your wallet is completely true. I was once a very large consumer of music; my CD collection stands at over 2000 legitimate, store-bought discs. But ever since the RIAA started taking a very aggressive, anti-consumer stance with their products, I have done a few things:

1) I stopped buying new music discs from stores.
2) I increased my used CD purchases.
3) I increased my concert attendance to give my money directly to artists.
4) I started downloading music.

What does all of this have to do with allofmp3.com? In the last 3 months, I've spent over $250 of my money with them. They provide exactly the kind of service that I would expect from an online music retailer: large selection, choice of format, reasonable pricing. It has totally eliminated numbers 1, 2, and 4 from the above list. It's the perfect solution (although I still buy used CD's when I can't find them on allofmp3).

People are bitching that allofmp3 is:

A) Unethical because the artists don't get paid: Well, they don't get paid when I go down to mall to buy a CD, and they don't get paid when I buy a used CD. Speaking as someone who at one time was under a major-label contract, artists don't get paid from record sales, unless they're already huge.

B) Run by the russian Mafia: the record industry here is run by the mafia, or at least run LIKE the mafia. No sympathy here; at least if allofmp3 is run by the mafia, they don't pretend otherwise. Here, our record labels act like they exist to serve the artist...what a load!

Look, the bottom line is that allofmp3 has it right. LARGE SELECTION, FAIR PRICES, CHOICE OF FORMAT, and EASE OF USE. I know they're doing it right, because I'm finally buying huge amounts of music again. It's everything a music store should be. And its far out of the reach of US law, thank God!

you don't go with any proprietary format

[circletimessquare]

you pirate

companies exist to serve the consumer, not visa versa

until companies figure that out, you don't use them

you pirate until the companies figure out that trying to own you is a turn off

and if they never figure that out, then fine, they die

the point is: you are the consumer, you are king

don't agree to any arrangement that makes you subject to something proprietary

Re:you don't go with any proprietary format

[Dr_LHA]

Really, you're saying piracy and copyright infringment as some sort of political statement against DRM. In reality you're justifying not paying for stuff you want.

The real way to "stick it to them" is not to buy stuff *and* not to pirate it.

Its bad enough that record companies seem to treat dropping sales as entirely due to piracy, rather than the fact that in realty they are not providing a valuable product. If you go ahead and pirate anyway, you're just proving them right, and the legislation and criminalisation of fair use will come about because of it.

OT: Is Vorbis dead?

[Just Some Guy]

I drank the Ogg Vorbis Kool-Aid and ripped hundreds of CDs in that format, fully believing that it was the Format Of The Future (tm). I'm having a lapse of faith, though: you have to jump through hoops to play them in iTunes (like installing barely-supported Quicktime plugins), and forget about listening to them on an iPod or any random piece of consumer hardware.

Does Vorbis still have a place in the world, or would I be better off re-ripping my music to MP3 - even if I still think Vorbis is technically superior?

I know this isn't completely on-topic, but since we're discussing vendor lock-in, it feels like I've managed to lock myself into a Unix-only format.

Re:OT: Is Vorbis dead?

[virtualXTC]

Frugal results for ogg turn up plenty of devices:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=ogg&btnG=Searc h+Froogle&hl=en&show=dd

Winamp 2.7 plays ogg just fine - why go for the itunes bloat?

Re:OT: Is Vorbis dead?

[CastrTroy]

That's why I encode all my CDs to FLAC. It may not be the way of the future, but at least i'm not losing data. I can always convert it to the format-du-jour from flac, and keep the original files. If you go from OGG to MP3 to VFQ, you end up with a file that's got a lot more loss then going straight from the CD to one of the formats.

Re:OT: Is Vorbis dead?

[alpharoid]

Speaking as an owner of an iRiver ifp795 player, I'd be wary about buying an iRiver player especially for the vorbis support. I did exactly that, and found that the entire ifp7xx and 8xx series have ogg support problems such as:

- Any .ogg file plays at a noticeably lower volume than MP3s. If you mix oggs with mp3s in your playlists, you'll spend most of the time with your finger on the volume knob.

- Only ogg files of 96kbps average and above are supported. If you want to save storage space by playing low-bitrate ogg files, this is not your player. And if you save a lot of stuff below vorbis quality 3, you'll have to reconvert them.

- Older models may skip, play noise or crash the player if the ogg file drops below 96kbps at any point. This is not the case for my player.

I know there are some iRiver models that play oggs without any of these restrictions (especially the HD models), I'd avise a thorough check on the Internet before buying one. I didn't, and ended up with an ogg player that is so minimally useful for my purposes that I just use it for MP3s.

Just say no

[ankarbass]

I just say no to DRM, it doesn't get any simpler.

Easy

[Hatta]

How do you then ensure that the music and player you buy today will not be incompatible with your player, online store or the OS?"

Easy, only buy music from people willing to let you listen to it. Places like emusic and magnatune sell completely unrestricted music files. And shit, archive.org gives away thousands of hours of music for free.

Vote with your wallet. If DRM is unacceptable, don't buy from people who would push it on you. There's plenty of music out there that's not DRM'd, and it's mostly better than the RIAA crap. Good musicians can afford to give music away, there's plenty more where that came from.

If you were treated the same way in a physical store that Apple or Napster treats you online, you'd storm out angrily and never shop there again. Why should online stores be any different?

Only Buy Compact Disc

[nathanh]

And not the copy-protected variety. When new albums come out they are typically priced at $29.99 or $34.99. If you wait 6 months they're $25. Wait another 6 months and they're $20. Eventually they're $10, sometimes even $5. There's still plenty of good music to choose from and there's no rationale to owning the disc when the music is less than a year old; the radio will be playing it to death anyway.

The benefit of disc is you can create mp3, ogg, atrac, whatever you damn well like, If you rip it first to ALAC or FLAC then you don't ever have to touch the disc again but you've got a reliable archive just in case you lose the digital rips.

The online purchasing of music doesn't appeal to me until it's FLAC, it's cheaper ($1.69 a song is pure robbery), and it has no DRM. For $8.99 I can get a 20-song disc delivered to my workplace within 24 hours, so paying $33.80 to get a crappier version with no cover art or disc really isn't attractive. Your priorities might vary but hey, this is Ask Slasdot, I'm telling you what I'd do. Stick with disc and don't give legitimacy to second-class crippled music formats.

The Mac is not transformative (Re:Drink the Ap...)

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but did the Apple experience turn you into one of these--i.e., an intelligent, well-rounded aesthete with a sense of style? My guess is no. You've either got it or you don't. So if you weren't born with that special je ne sais quoi that makes a Mac user a Mac user, don't even bother trying, because in the end, Macs are for different thinkers.

* * * gallery updated Nov. 5, 2005 * * *

Magnatune

[Gubbe]

I buy from Magnatune, Audio Lunchbox or one of the many other sites that sell open, non-DRM music in MP3, OGG Vorbis and FLAC formats.

Why should I buy things from people who don't have respect for me and my wishes as a customer?

No major label will ever again get a single penny from me until they say "screw DRM" and mean it too. If they don't, that's just fine with me. They can just wither and die for all I care.

Solution provided.

Not technically legal, TOTALLY legal

[Anonymous Coward]

They pay the fee for the music. The police in Russia checked their licenses in response to an RIAA complaint and they're all in order.

Globalisation doesn't just work for corporations importing cheap shoes, it works for you too.

A couple of players

[ValentineMSmith]

Maybe I'm a little old fashioned, but I generally don't buy individual songs from a subscription service. Instead, I buy the CD's and rip to Q6 OGG for my (and my wife's) players. She has a Neuros 1 20 gb player and I have an iAudio X5 20gb. Both players have internal FM receivers, and both support OGG. Both also report as mass storage USB 2.0 devices. Although the Neuros requires the use of a synchronization application, they're both good players.

Neuros Audio is very community oriented and has been mentioned quite a bit on Slashdot recently, and are known as being very friendly to open source.

IAudio isn't quite as friendly to open source as Neuros, but having a player that had USB Host functionality and would play OGG, FM stereo, Video, and (if I feel the urge) WMA 10 based files from Rhapsody or Napster was too good to pass up.

Bottom line, if there is any music I hear and want to keep, I go to the used CD store, buy it, rip it, and move it to my player. No DRM, no loss of audio quality as part of a conversion, and, since both players report as mass storage devices, OS compatibility is not a problem.

pirating & civil disobedience

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I own hundreds of CDs and all my iPod music is 100% legally ripped from them. Many of the CDs are used, many are greatest hits compilations, both of which save money, and I've purchased them over many years. I also buy my ipods when the new version comes out and the old version drops in price so I get a good deal.

If you want to "pirate" to "make a point" the only caveat is this: any time you commit civil disobedience (breaking the law to embarrass the legislature into changing it) you have to be willing to face the consequences of breaking that law (fines and jail) in order to make your point. Remember, Gandhi insisted on being jailed (I think it was for making his own salt) in order to embarrass the government. In Canada, Mortgentaler went to jail repeatedly to uphold the right of women to abortion. In your own country, Doctor Death did the same.

Otherwise you're not a crusader, you're just another whiny punk who wants everything for free immediately. Considering you could do what I do, there's an obvious alternative to pirating to avoid DRM.

AllOfMp3.com

[Trevahaha]

http://www.allofmp3.com/ lets you buy DRM-free music and instead of paying per song, you pay per bandwidth... you choose your format that you want and you choose the compression rate. It's pretty sweet. It's based out of Russia and is legal to buy from.

Our business model...

[ndtechnologies]

The easiest way to prevent the consumer from being locked in to anything, is to offer as many formats as possible. With our music store, we use Ogg Vorbis currently, but in January we will have MP3 and AAC support (with NO DRM). The difference is that we are an indie music provider. However some people don't like indie music, and that is perfectly fine for them. There are way too many mainstream music providers that all do the same thing, and we want to offer something different. Because we are an indie music provider, our business model is also different. Our bands get 40% of the net sale right off the bat. Also if a band sells more, they earn more. The system really does work. I wish the major labels (and the RIAA for that matter) would get a clue and realize that things can be done differently and be profitable for both sides.

even more easierer

[ShinGouki]

just get tunebite and re-encode your "locked-in" format into mp3, ogg, wav, whatever you like.

i'm 3/4 of the way through a total re-encode of all my (70 gigs or so worth) napster .wma files into the more portable .mp3

it basically plays the file using wmp or itunes or whatever and records the audio off your sound card. the best part about it is if you have a card that supports it, you can dub at 4x speed so that 70 gigs or so has taken me about two weeks instead of two months :P