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German Politico Calls For Ban On Violent Games
GamePolitics reports that Germany's new coalition government wants to limit the development and production of violent games. From the article: "... Andreas Scheuer, a parliamentarian serving under the banner of the conservative Christian Social Union, told Der Spiegel that violent games 'have no place in Germany's bedrooms.' Scheuer added that parents must be responsible for what their children play, but that the German government could help less media-savvy parents by introducing a 'complete ban' on violent games. Along with movies, games are already subject to a rating process."
the German government could help less media-savvy parents by introducing a 'complete ban' on violent games
They could help my less savvy neighbor tone down his loud stereo. My other neighbor has a less savvy nose and doesn't understand how smelly his bbqs are. I have friends who are less savvy about politics and could use some help. There's the cow-orker who is less savvy about his belching and needs help.
I sure wish I lived in a country like Germany with such savvy politicians looking out for my less savvy fellow citizens.
Infuriate left and right
That's an amazing piece of spin. Saying "Parents must be responsible" and then within ONE SENTENCE flipping that around to "Parents aren't responsible so we're going to ban the things we don't personally like." Even the current American administration would have a hard time topping that one.
"... violent games 'have no place in Germany's bedrooms.' "
:)
Wait a sec... what are we talking about here?
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Germany outlawing things for the "common good?" Why does this sound eerily familiar?
Maybe they can put yellow stars on offenders. Sorta like a bonus!
I was gonna make a comment relating this to the book burnings over 70 years ago, but I thought it was a bit much.
So, instead of making parents take responsibility for what their children see and do they're just gonna flat out ban violent games? As if the current censorship of games over there wasn't enough, I guess that sane, mature adults who enjoy playing violent games would be just totally screwed.
"Scheuer added that parents must be responsible for what their children play..." 'Nuff said.
"Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times. Suppose one day, it lands on its edge."
I don't mind regulating the sale of various products to those underage. But to state that we need to get rid video games because parents are too stupid to even read, well, I'm floored.
If parents are too dumb, then obviously they shouldn't be raising the children, or you need to improve education.
Deciding to impose restrictions on a particular medium is ridiculous. Violent movies are allowed, subject to a rating system. If the violent video games are on that rating system, then they should be allowed, too.
Maybe they should start censoring the violent bits out of the Bible, too.... Oh wait, the CSU wouldn't do that, right?
Fix the problem, instead of pandering. Politicians who pander to frantic moral agendas easily become the puppets of fascist rulers.
Linux - because it doesn't leave that Steve Ballmer aftertaste.
"told Der Spiegel that violent games 'have no place in Germany's bedrooms.'"
Let me get this straight, no violent games in German bedrooms?
Guess we'll have to go back to playing scheisse games.
Guess what? How about the idea that the German government has no place in their citizens' bedrooms?
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
violent games "have no place in Germany's bedrooms."
Scat porn on the other hand seems to be just fine.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
"19-year-old gunman Robert Steinhaueser was an avid Counter-strike player, leading to calls to limit violent games in Germany." There are MILLIONS of counter-strike players but if ONE commits a violent crime then ALL games must be banned? I know I'm going to take some flack for this but this seems like the same logic as: "If one Jew commits a crime then Judaism should be banned so let's have a halocaust." I KNOW it is messed up to say but I hope the point is not lost.
So the government should help "less media saavy" parents by banning games....hmmm...You know, some parents don't know how to drive too well. I know! Let's ban driving to help them with their kids when they are old enough to drive.
Hmmm....you know, some parents don't know too much about nutrition. I know! Let's ban food to help them with their overweight kids.
Hmmm....you know, some parents don't understand computers and the Internet too well. I know! Let's ban the Internet to help them keep pornography away from their kids.
-- Fugacity: Confusing chemists since 1908
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So OK, let's pretend for a second that banning games would in fact help 'less media-savvy parents' as intended, have they even done any studies** to show that such parents are in the majority? Or is the German government just assuming that they know better than most parents and/or most German parents aren't media-aware enough to make these decisions themselves?
Let's face it, even if bans were the answer, no one has demonstrated that even a significant number of parents need this kind of help. And is it really helping society as a whole when the solution to help one set of people completely alienates another group, and leaves them with no choices? Let's hope this fails, and additionally (as unlikely as it is) our government pays attention and learns a lesson and so doesn't waste our time and money trying to implement something similar in the future as the violent games debate continues here in the US.
(Full disclosure: I tried to read the original article linked from the blog that the /. summary points to but it is blocked by websense, if I've made some wrong assumptions - particularly about ** - then please correct me.)
-- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
The Germans are just tired of seeing so many games where you are killing them. I mean if there were an entire genre of games where you were, say, a British soldier fighting the American rebellion, you think we would be pissed about it?
That being said, can't wait to fire up CoD:Big Red 1 and get back to killing Nazis...
I am and always will be a stereotype, because who in their right mind prefers mono?
Love the comments in TFA link... someone got a Godwin FP.
Too bad it was seriously intended, and did not, for one, welcome Beowulf clusters of Nazi overlords.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
...Well it's to know that the US doesn't have a monopoly on stupid politicians.
Shadus
Scheuer added that parents must be responsible for what their children play, but that the German government could help less media-savvy parents by introducing a 'complete ban' on violent games. Along with movies, games are already subject to a rating process."
Wait, they want parents to 'be responsible' for the games they buy their children or let their children play,
but in an effort to make sure parents don't make the wrong descision (ie disagree with this wack-job), we'll ban violent video games entirely?
How is that letting parents be resonsible for what their children play again?
Or right, it's not about responsiblity, it's about you not likeing violent video games - so no one should.
I'm just glad to see once in a while the US doif other governmentsesn't have a monopoly on dumb politicians forcing their idealogical views on the rest of the country. Sometimes I do worry.
Yeah, a top-10 list of WW2 games is likely to involved some German killing. For the record, however, most of those games also involve American killing too. Oh, and those aren't necessarily the most popular, just the most popular WW2 games, which means your reference is biased. I would say that BF2 is more popular than either of the WW2 versions of BF you had listed. Your point is well taken, that video games depicted wars involving Germans may, on occasion, depict a German dying. That doesn't prevent us Americans from bannign the same WW2 game because you can pick up a Luger and kill the Yankees.
Especially the ones that weren't letting their children play these games anyhow, but enjoyed playing the games themselves. Talk about irresponsible parenting.
Given the demographics of videogame players these days, measures like this aren't so much "think of the children!" as "think of the young adults and middle aged folks!".
This stupid Kraut needs to have a few rounds of hot lead pumped into his head, be burned alive with some flaming napalm, and have his limbs removed not-too-gently with a dull butter knife
I stationed in Germany at Ramstein AB. I wonder how this ban would affect us military members who purchase video games either online and shipped to our US mailing address or at our local BX/PX. Hopefully the US would step up and say that their ban wouldn't affect us. As an adult it's my decision whether I want to play a violent video game or not. And shoot, I'm in the military, violence is kind of implied in the job at some level or another.
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
... violent games 'have no place in Germany's bedrooms.
Yeah, cause thats where we tape people shitting on each other during sex.
Damn those cursed videogames, they invented violence! Seriously, you'd be better banning Brixton from kids below 18 than banning videogames.
I've got the spirit, lose the feeling.
" From the article: "... Da5id, a websurfer serving under the banner of the ADSL2+ progressist Atheist Social Union, told Der Spiegel that stupid politicians 'have no place in Germany's bedrooms.' Da5id added that politicians must be responsible for what their electors hear, but that the Slashdot government could help less media-savvy Politicians by introducing a 'complete ban' on stupid politicians. Along with politician, Political parties programs are already subject to a rating process."
Vote for me, your alternative is Krang...
It takes 40+ muscles to frown, but only four to extend your arm and bitchslap the motherfucker
Over here in the Netherlands there's also debate about the violence in videogames, well a politician is trying to start a dabate about it anyway.
We all know already that there will always be people who like their entertainment to be violent, this is never gonna change. And as long as there is violent entertainment around there will be people protesting against it.
Violent games will not be banned in Germany nor in the Netherlands, and if they are, there's gonna be ways around it(some already exist, like valve's steam). Nobody will REALLY be affected by any of this, it's just the media, politicians and general public keeping themselves busy.
There's alot of problems out there that indeed cause violence, but those are pretty darn hard to solve so it's best to spend your time talking about this none issue than getting frustrated over the real issues.
After all, frustration is the biggest cause of violence.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You know the phrase "Where Books Burn, People Burn"?
I'm coining a new phrase: "Where Games burn, Books will follow."
After all, once Video Games are banned, they'd begin to blame movies, TV and Books. Will they ban those too?
Andreas Scheuer, a parliamentarian serving under the banner of the conservative Christian Social Union, told Der Spiegel that violent games 'have no place in Germany's bedrooms.'
We have a saying here in Canada, coined by one of our Prime Ministers no less:
"The State has no place in the nation's bedrooms". He was actually talking about striking down laws banning homosexuality, but, oddly, it appplies equally well in here.
On another note, I would like to point out that this article is proof that it is not only liberals that advocate this kind of misguided legislation. The CSU/CDU coalition was the conservative group that just barely beat out Schroder's social democrats.
Of course, in highly red-shifted American political spectrum, they're both far left.
I came here for a good argument
In germany it is already illegal to sell video games to people below the recomment age for a game (ie. the USK rating). Its also possible to 'index' very violent games, meaning not only it is forbitten to sell them to children blow 18 years, but its also forbitten to advertise those games at all, meaning you can't have them standing around in a shop where they might be spotted by children blow 18 or review them in magzines. So everything is already in place to ban those 'killer games' if needed. I get the feeling that those politicans simple haven't the slightest clue what the current laws are.
Many of these games are already banned in Germany due to their use of Nazi symbols. From what I've heard, it's kind of hard to realistically depict WWII German units without the use of Nazi symbols - you know, that whole Swastika thing.
Anyway, since they already have that form of censorship it's not a big jump to censor other issues (slippery slope). No big surprise from me.
The logic is AFAIK that games are toys and toys must not contain Nazi symbols.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I am sick of people blaming violent video games for real life violence. People make their own choices. If someone tends towards violence, they will be more likely to play violent video games and also more likely to commit acts of violence in real life, but there is not a causal relationship. If violent video games caused real life violence, I would have killed a lot of people by now. But the reality is, the violent impulses a person has can be satisfied in real life or in virtual reality. For some people, violence is addictive, causing them to crave more of it the more they get, so violent games are not good for them, but the effect is no different than if they chose to be violent in real life first. A person who is addicted to violence is a special case, and should not be used as an argument against virtual violence. People who do not have this addiction, but do have a tendency for a certain amount of violence(I think this is a vast majority, judging by how many people play video games vs. how many people go on huge killing sprees), will be positively affected by violent video games, because the virtual violence will satisfy their violent tendencies so that they no longer have a desire to work their violent feelings out in a real life setting.
Since that coalition formed they have announced that they will disregard the constitution regarding debts, now they're trying to violate the right on freedom of expression (the exception is ONLY for youth protection and a complete ban is NOT youth protection!). Couldn't this be construed as an attempt to destroy the federalistic democratic foundation of the country? I mean, those fuckers openly stated they will disregard the constitution, isn't that enough to immediately and forcefully disband their parties or at least the coalition?
If they think violent games pose a great threat to the peace of society they should immediately ban all religious scriptures and confiscate them, preferrably even disband all religious institutions, there are more people claiming "God made me do it" than those claiming "Counterstrike made me do it" so religion is obviously a greater threat to society than games, right? Wait, what's that, you've read the Bible and don't go on killing sprees, those wackos are just exceptions?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Video game player's world wide call for a ban on wacky German politico's
Hmm... so let me get this straight: Video games lead to violence. So there was no violence before video games, right? At least not in Germany anyway? Err.
IMHO the real cause of violence is religion and politics. Why not try to ban those? Oh wait... those are the people who are trying to ban video games.
GOOF! One more reason not to live in Germany.
You see... there was no violence in Germany before video games... so banning video games will solve the problem.
Nice one.
Next they are going to ban free speech to do away with poverty.
It's a tradeoff. Most people here in Germany understand English pretty well - in fact, good enough to play an English video game. So they're banning violent video games, and all it will do is increase piracy. Nice people in the states that have the violent video games will put them on bittorrent, the people here will download. It's a tradeoff - should we try to crack down on copyright infringement and stealing and piracy, or should we try to restrict an activity which has yet to be conclusively proven to actually cause violence? They can't just ban the internet, can they?
My mom never let me play anything violent until I was 16. Once I did, I found fun in them but I was partially horrified at what I saw. This was a good experience. I was old enough to be mature enough to realize that I can't do in real life what I can do in these games, yet I was young enough for my mind to wrap around the idea of "I don't want this to happen to me in real life, do I?". So I can play all the violent games. It doesn't fase me a bit, in fact I think its pretty damn fun. But anybody that knows me in person knows exactly that I won't hurt a fly. I let out my anger in the game, and am a calm person when it matters.
I'M NOT ANGRY!
Ignorant ugly bastard. As if his useless outdated party didn't have worthwhile problems to take on. Oh right, I forgot - they don't have a clue as to where to begin, so instead of twiddling their thumbs and picking their noses they prefer to fix what ain't broke.
Good thing I wasn't mad when I wrote this.
When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Rel
-illumina+us "I put on my robe and wizard hat..."
Currently, we have the occasional lawsuit campaign against filesharers, undertaken by game publishers who want to protect their revenue. ;-)
But if certain types of games can't be sold in Germany anyway, there is no reason for publishers to waste any ressources on prosecution. Which means the police will be on their own in going after pirated versions of DOOM IV or such
C - the footgun of programming languages
... violent games ban YOU!
First of all, the list you linked to is called "Top World War 2 First Person Games". There are a lot of other ones, that are very good
Second of all, killing Nazi soldiers in games, books and movies is pretty much okay for every german. Nobody frowns upon it and actually nobody cares.
Other than that: The only reason they bring this up now is because they weren't able to form a halfway working government since the elections and need something else to talk about. As soon as every one of these assholes holds some kind of office that allows him to live in wealth for the rest of his live, they will ditch the topic and start the actual work.
And by work I mean, lose every single last bit of common sense they had, start breaking promises they made before the elections and create laws that drive the unemployment into unseen heights.
Isn't that awesome?
Maybe they're sick of all the WWII games. *ducks*
They call me the wookie man, I guess that's what I am
People might laugh at this comment, but I think this would be a real cultural loss for Germany. People complain about America dominating cultures, but it is shit like this that feeds it.
Imagine this, you are a German game designer. You design video games, sell them in Germany in German, and then sell them everywhere else in their respective languages. Some person in America or Japan gets to play your German made games. Through these games they get perhaps a small glimpse into German perspectives and culture. In essence, exporting a German video game is spreading a little German culture to the rest of the world.
Now, shit like this passes. Suddenly being a game designer in Germany is not so appealing. Not only is your art limited in what it can show, you also need to go through the pain of getting it past a censor. Do you stand a shot in hell at competing with an American or Japanese company? Hell no. So what do you do? You find another country to work in, probably in an American or Japanese design team, or simply find a new way to make a living.
Now, as video games quickly rise in popularity, they have more influence in terms of art and culture. If all of Germany's video game designers flee Germany, Germany has basically axed itself out of having any sort of influence and say with this emerging art/entertainment form. They might as well just bow to the American and Japanese duopoly in video games and accept that if video games ever become as big as TV did, they are going to be stuck completely dominated by another culture in this field.
Personally, I hope that German people smack some sense into their politicians. This is a blatant violation of freedom of speech, government interference in art, and a loss for German culture. The only thing this will accomplish will be a complete lack of German video games and more pirated games from outside of Germany. It is good that most Germans learn English, because when no one is producing games in German, they are going to need it.
Oh, and Jack Thompson is a douche bag... I had to fit that in somewhere.