Prepping For The 360

An anonymous reader writes "The Xbox 360 launches on Tuesday, and ZDNet talks to some of the folks who are already prepping for it. John Dvorak also has commentary on the new console, and he seems to like it." From the Dvorak article: "Luckily Microsoft's Xbox 360 crew, and other game developers, are working on cool stuff that will cross over to PCs. When game developers retake their rightful place on top of the hill of progress, we'll all be better off. Needless to say, I am impressed by the Xbox 360. The Xbox 360 explores new menu structures with a unique and pleasant GUI. One often-overlooked element that the Microsoft games group brings to the party is its unique GUIs that are unlike the folder/desktop metaphor that Xerox and Apple developed."

Comments

Dvorak

[Anonymous Coward]

John Dvorak also has commentary on the new console, and he seems to like it

Of course John Dvorak likes the XBox 360:
1. It's made by Microsoft
2. It's not made by Apple

Re:Dvorak

[Bones3D_mac]

Wow... I think this is the first anti-Dvorak post rated "flamebait" by the Slashdot community.

That said, I think the 360 has potential, but I guess I'll find out Tuesday whether or not it's bad enough to justify Dvorak "liking" it.

GUI??

[badasscat]

The Xbox 360 explores new menu structures with a unique and pleasant GUI. One often-overlooked element that the Microsoft games group brings to the party is its unique GUIs that are unlike the folder/desktop metaphor that Xerox and Apple developed."

Since when has the GUI had anything whatsoever to do with how good and/or successful a console is? Does Dvorak not realize the whole purpose of a console is to play games?

Even if you're a convergence guy and believe people will be using their Xbox for movies as well as games, I still don't see how the GUI has anything to do with anything. What you want is a system where you interact with the GUI as little as possible, whatever you're doing. Most people shouldn't even know that it exists.

The fact that so many people are focusing so heavily on the Xbox 360's GUI suggests to me that it's far too prominent and intrusive.

Re:GUI??

[Ark42]

Have you ever played Metroid Prime 2? A horrible GUI / menu system can really make a game pretty annoying to play.

Re:GUI??

[vperez]

Game GUI != System GUI. The system's GUI will have little effect on the games you play on it.

For me console GUI will mean nothing as I don't really do anything with my consoles besides play games. Then again I won't be getting an XBox 360 anytime soon due to the lack of any games worth buying a system for. :)

Re:GUI??

[Jace of Fuse!]

The Metroid Prime 2 GUI/Menu is a poor example, since ideally you would use it as little as possible. No, it wasn't great, but you could pretty much enjoy the game with very little interaction with it. If you were using the GUI too much, you obviously didn't play Metroid Prime 2 very much yourself.

It's also a poor example of ruining the experience of a game because it's not standard across all Gamecube titles.

On both sides of the other hand, the 360's interface seems to chime in the same no matter what game you are playing. So in that respect it's a good thing that the GUI is as good as it is, because if it weren't people would get frustrated quickly. On top of that, this is only the GUI for the system and system related functions. Each game within itself will obviously have it's own GUI seperate from that of the system.

I think the original GP was pointing out that a game console should not have a standard GUI as such, because it's one step closer to an operating system based game consoles, and that's precisely the one direction most of us really want game consoles going.

I've played with the 360 quite a bit and though I don't really like any of the first generation games (Not one of them are on my purchase list! Not a single one!) the console itself does seem quite nice. I'm a little disturbed by the jagged edges visible in some of the games even on high-definition, but that's more a case of poor quality in the software rather than the console itself because other games look absolutely beautiful.

I'll build a better opinion of the 360 as better titles start to trickle in. For now I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who isn't simply going to use it to play older games, or in the unlikely event that you actually feel you MUST have one of the launch titles.

Dvorak is impressed by the GUI and hyped about the system. The rest of the industry admits it's nice but have focused on the unexciting launch titles and are largely lukewarm to the system right now. :/ Why am I not surprised?

(As an aside, I am not a Sony or Nintendo fanboy. I own all consoles, normally before release dates.)

Re:GUI??

[gad_zuki!]

The GUI matters because lets face it, these are fluff articles about a game system which isn't anything but first to the market.

So you see articles about GUIs, and pricing, supply chain management, and schedules. Its like working at Microsoft and sitting through a boring meeting on xbox360. I can't wait for it to come out so I can stop hearing the rumors.

Not to mention all the live demos I've seen have been attached to nice HDTV's. Those killer game graphics the reviewers rave about isnt going to look nearly as good on the old fashioned NTSC tv in the bedroom.

Re:GUI??

[Antique Geekmeister]

The new version of a GUI menu has as much to do with excellent gameplay as a talking paperclip has to do with document writing.

Congratulations, Microsoft, on creating another wonderful and capable platform, then putting a tire boot on it to interfere with its use.

Re:GUI??

[TheoB]

Actually, this is uniquely not true on the 360. A LOT of the Live functionality (voice, gamercards, friends, etc.), your audio controls (so you do some of that much-lauded "listening to your iPod through the tee-vee"), system preferences, multi-controller setups, and powering down the console are all handled through the system-HUD, which pops up whenever you press the little X in the middle of the controller. So the System GUI comes up a LOT; if it's good, that means you always know how to get to the settings you want, and if it sucks, it sucks everywhere.

Sounds like it's good, though. Cool.

I am also prepping for it

[FidelCatsro]

I am going into hiding so that One may avoid the barrage of silly stories and Marketing shite .

notice

[akhomerun]

notice how none of these comments are on innovating gameplay. GUIs, neat features for developers, etc, but what about the actual game?

half the launch titles are ports, and the other half aren't genre defining or groundbreaking. i don't see, even with the pretty graphics neat GUI (i didn't know playing games had anything to do with having a pretty GUI) any gameplay changes. how can the gameplay be any different, the controller is a perfected S controller.

there's no way that playing an xbox 360 game can be any better than the current generation. this isn't N64 -> PS2 era, the N64/PS1 had actual processing limits and storage space limits and RAM limits that actually affected gameplay. even the current gen consoles introduced innovations like online play, (good) wireless controllers, and graphics that were closer to photorealism.

but xbox 360 makes one innovation - moving closer to photorealism. that's it. there's nothing else. all the other innovations involve money-grabbing (Microsoft Points to buy pointless shit, higher console price, streaming from a media center PC...to get more people to buy media center edition pcs)

take a company like nintendo that continuously adds something to the gaming mix, like the dpad, analog stick, shoulder buttons, online play (famicom modem anyone?), revolution controller, and (good) wireless controllers, and then see real success. sony and microsoft are on their 3rd and 2nd generations, but besides nintendo, there has been no other console company able to survive longer than that in the gaming world.

microsoft (and sony) are just following along with the trends - IMO to be successful, a company has to make the trend, and make the gaming culture. that's why nintendo's still around.

Re:notice

[Aphrika]

I see your point, but I also don't think you can lay the blame for gameplay solely at Microsoft's - or any console designer's - feet. They have supplied a platform to create content for. How developers choose to use that is up to them.

But you're right in a couple of ways. I haven't seen anything groundbreaking about even the PS2. Sure it had lots of extra polygons to throw around, but the 'Emotion Engine' hype failed to live up to expectations. Did the PS2 ever do anything any other console couldn't? Nope. However, I do think MS are really pushing the online gaming idea a lot more than anyone else. Sony and Nintendo are a generation behind Live! which - if you've used it - is incredibly intuitive and coherent. From what I've heard the 360 Live! system is even more integrated, allowing you to save preferences across games (such as vertical invert, sensitivity etc.). There's the HD angle too which we sort of expected in the Xbox but now actually appears to be here. However, I am rather baffled about just how amazing this is supposed to be. Playing HL2 on my Dell widescreen monitor theoretically gives a better resolution that HD, so what's all the fuss about, that you can do that on a normal TV?

To be honest, the bits of the 360 that interest me most are the Media Center type functions and the online stuff. It will ultimately be what separates it from the PS3 and Revolution. While I see the Revolution as being different enough that people who own another console will buy one anyway, the PS3 - I fear - will just be another console. MS have always built Xbox around online gaming, and Sony, well their online strategy is lacking coherence so much as to be worrying. Unless they build some kind of PVR capability into the PS3, it's not going to take over the living room, and if they pull another Memorystick/UMD/weirdformat trick with it, they're really going to have problems...

The other thing that I find kinda interesting is that MS have played reasonably fairly in the console arena. While people knock them for business practices in the PC field, you have to give them some credit for how far they've come in 4 years. In 2001 I honestly thought the Xbox would bomb. How wrong I was... this time round, I think Sony will trip and fall, and Nintendo will sell loads not by trying to compete directly with either in the lounge, but by just being an innovative games console...

Re:notice

[MonkeyBoy]

Don't ask me to link to it, since I don't know if it's available online, but back when the original GT3 was released a magazine had an interview with some of the people who developed it.

In that article, one of the interviewees mentioned that they toyed with having cops pull you over for traffic violations. They nixed it because it became far too hard to accomplish missions, much less just tool around town, and they just couldn't put a genuinely fun game together with that in the mix.

In other words, they tried it your way and it just didn't work. If you think you know of a way to make it work - hey, it's a big industry. Go nuts.

Personally, I can't think of any way to make a fun game with that kind of anal retentive attention to detail in the mix. It's like the Golf "simulators" that became so fixated on "realistic simulation" that they simulated themselves right out of the market. What's left are golf games where the physics have been fudged a little so people will actually want to PLAY the game.

That's the point of a game, remember - to play it. To have fun while playing it. That's why it's a game.

Re:notice

[ilyaaohell]

Unfortunately, this kind of logic about Nintendo making money is somewhat poor. Nintendo generally spends less, and makes less -- but the revenue is higher than expenditures.

Microsoft and Sony spend a LOT more, and make a LOT more -- but their revenue is lower than expenditures.

Yes, Nintendo is running a far more profitable business. However, this is because their target is significantly lower than their competitor's. It's the same reason that Jet Blue, a tiny little airline, is consistently profitable (or was, last time I checked) while it's giant competitors are consistently losing money.

I honestly don't see why anybody would be glad that Nintendo is minimizing their expenditures for the sake of staying profitable (other than ensuring that they stay in business, of course). The fact that they spend less means that they make less games, and it means the deals they sign with publishers are also of the penny-pinching variety, which leads to outside publishers having less incentive to release their product on Nintendo hardware.

While I never owned an Xbox, at least you can't say that Xbox owners aren't happy with their purchase. The hardware is amazing (as is Nintendo's, by the way), the amount of games coming out is very high, and it has a LOT of cheap perks like Xbox Live, hard drives, etc. All these things contribute to Microsoft losing money in their game devision, while also contributing to the superior value of their product. Nintendo's value comes from their in-house software development, it has very little to do with the hardware or the extra services they offer (none that I know of).

Unless you're buying a Nintendo console for the specific games that Nintendo makes, you get far less value out of your initial investment (console price nonwithstanding). That is the price of Nintendo's profitability.

GUI???

[Yaztromo]

The Xbox 360 explores new menu structures with a unique and pleasant GUI.

<sarcasm>
Yeah. After all, we know that the feature that made the Atari 2600, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, and Playstation/Playstation 2 such huge market smashes were the quality of their menus...
</sarcasm>

Perhaps this will mean something for the latest generation of consoles once they take on a bigger role as a general media centre -- some day. But I have a feeling that the quality of a consoles menus is hardly going to be a buying consideration for 99.999% of next generation console purchases. In the end, it's all about the games, and from what I've seen and heard about the 360 so far, the games are generally uninspiring in terms of either gameplay or graphics.

But hey, if it has nice menus, at least those MS fanboys who run out to buy one on Tuesday will have something to show their friends to try to defend their purchuse (jab jab jab :) ).

Yaz.

Re:Xbox360 and Slashdot

[Rew190]

I see a lot of comments like this, lately, but do you think that PS3 and the Revolution aren't going to get a lot of articles as well?

I think it's a decent assumption that many folks are interested in the consoles. This only happens once evert four or so years, and for many a console is a mainstream source of entertainment.

We saw the same thing happen with Xbox, PS2, and Gamecube. It's probably more of a valid argument to say that /. covers too much next-gen consoles in general, but I don't think they're being a blatant commercial for Microsoft. Nintendo and Sony are being rather hush-hush at the momeny, but I'm sure when they start talking to us we'll see plenty of posts by them as well.

Re:Duh...

[RonnyJ]

No way the Xbox2 could compete with the PS3... *rolls eyes*

Indeed, though I wouldn't blame Microsoft for making the decision on the name. It might be seemingly insignificant, but I do think it'd make a subtle difference to public perception.

King Kong demo

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw the King Kong demo on a 360 today at EB games. Maybe I've been playing too much Resident Evil 4 on my Gamecube lately, but I was thoroughly underwhelmed. In fact, I'm more impressed by the graphic quality they've squeezed out of the Nintendo DS!

http://www.ds-x2.com/index.php?id=4281

Re:Long Tail media center

[interiot]

Well, considering 1) you don't get the full XBox 360 networked functionality unless you pay for the PC-based Media Center, 2) in terms of number of formats supported, the open source Xbox1 media center has more functionality (except for HD), 3) not many media companies are selling content over the 'net yet, and 4) the Apple with its iPod Video is going further in convincing content creators than anyone else is. Sure, the XBox 360 is useful for the Long Tail, but only once it's been hacked, which means that it's the usual story: the Long Tail is here, but it's not the companies bringing it to you, it's the hackers.

Perhaps reading available information and studying a bit of statistics before you post will help you to understand a bit more than you currently appear to.

I would say the other guy is spot-on. The Long Tail is an great concept, but when you overuse it in places where it doesn't belong, you devalue the term in general.

Re:DUR PHOTOREALISM

[spectecjr]

Photorealism is not innovation. If it is, Valve should be the one getting the credit for at least mimiccing how the human eye sees.

Huh? Do you honestly think that Valve are the people who came up with High Dynamic Range rendering? If it's not that, what are you talking about? Simulating a 50mm lens?

Most embedded GUIs are not desktop-based

[Junks Jerzey]

Once again, this would have been a better article without the tacked-on, and often incorrect, opinion line. The desktop metaphor is only used in general-purpose personal computers. Does your DVD player use a desktop metaphor? Your MP3 player? Your TV? Your GPS system? Your digital camera? Any video game system ever made? Of course not, because it doesn't make sense.

What a load of bull

[cecom]

What is wrong with your, people ? :-)

Give me a break. This isn't the second coming of the messiah. It is a game console, for god's sake. There is no need to get prepared - get your credit card, walk to the store, stand in line, buy it, play. For that matter, wait one more week and you don't have to stand in line. Surely, one could survive seven days without the Xbox360 ? Especially considering that there aren't many games available at this time!

It is sad how well trained the consumer has become. We are so eager to take out our wallets and buy anything new, we can hardly wait a day. It doesn't matter what it is - it's new and everybody is buying it! But wait, now that you have a Xbox360 you surely need a big-screen Plasma TV ? And a new speaker system!

On the other hand, this is what keeps our economy strong, so don't listen to me too hard :-)

Prepare for a shortage

[Merk]

I think the funniest thing about preparing for the X-Box 360 is preparing for the shortage. There have been reports that Microsoft is *requiring* retailers to run out of them on the first day.

Rather than preparing for the expected number of customers, retailers are expected to intentionally have to turn people away, just so Microsoft can get good buzz.

If you hear stories of shortages, remember why!

Re:Very Bad News From First 360 Owners

[ilyaaohell]

Let me tell you something about backward compatibility. It's a feature that everyone wants, and then no one uses.

Read this review of Xbox 360 versus PS3 . Shocking

[zymano]

http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs- ps3-part-1-of-4/

When I read this I was dumbfounded. Then I thought about it for a sec. The PS3 is all caught up in tech spec numbers. Whats most important part of a console ? The graphics card. Xbox360 wins. Sony may have the FP's. But who cares. IT's about how your game looks.

This is what pissed me off about what Sony is doing. They should have gone DUAL GRAPHICS CARD instead of trying some new vector chip like the PS2. The graphics card is what matters. Nothing else. The GPU(general) is not that important but for game logic.

Who is running the Sony PS3 development ?

I see disaster for them .

Re:Read this review of Xbox 360 versus PS3 . Shock

[SneakyNinja]

Ahh, so *you're* the reason publishers like EA continue to churn out shallow, linear, predicatable but PRETTY games year in, year out.

Who cares if the AI is weak, or the story dull, or it's lacking in multiplayer/co-op options etc, as long as a game looks nice.

Remind me again why the current PC games need a 2Gz processor?

I Call Troll

[Valdrax]

He has been one of the strongest and biggest name Mac proponents in the industry for the last 15 years. He also has incredible amounts of disdain for Microsoft.

Are you talking about the same John "Apple is Dying" Dvorak who has been predicting the death of Apple since the 90s at the very least? Does this or this really sound like the words of a Mac lover ? No one who is even vaguely familiar with the name Dvorak in the Mac community is of the opinion that the guy has had any affection for Apple for over a decade.

Now it is fair to say that he's fallen out of love with Microsoft since the heady romantic days of Windows 95, but a Mac proponent for the past 15 years? Pfft...