Slashdot Mirror


DMCA Abuse Widespread

Doc Ruby writes "Via TechDirt, the news that despite the intent of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, it's very popular to abuse the law by using it merely to compete, without legal basis: 'Supporters of the DMCA claim that only an occasional improper takedown notice gets through. Some new research suggests otherwise. Over 30% of DMCA takedown notices have been deemed improper and potentially illegal.'"

59 of 224 comments (clear)

  1. Power to abuse? by Dubpal · · Score: 5, Informative
    If you asked those Swedish guys over at thepiratebay.org (a search engine for .torrent files), I'm sure their data would show higher than 30% abuse.
    Their legal threats page is a hoot.

    On a more serious note, laws like the DMCA that put (arguably) too much power at the hands of copyright holders were always going to be susceptible to abuse. Remaining on the subject of torrent search engines, lokitorrent.com pulled its site down after threats from the MPAA who cited the DMCA, without even going to court. (They later went to court, where it was ruled that the domain owner release all visitor data to the MPAA.) With power like that, where's the incentive not to abuse it?

    --
    If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever.
    - George Orwell
    1. Re:Power to abuse? by Prospero's+Grue · · Score: 4, Insightful
      With power like that, where's the incentive not to abuse it?

      Agreed. To use a phrase I heard some time ago; it's how we ended up with a legal system instead of a justice system.

      --
      The opinion above is fiction. Any similarity to real opinions, including facts and logic, is purely coincidental.
    2. Re:Power to abuse? by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 4, Interesting

      anyone with half a brain (sometimes less) can realize that the DMCA was only passed because the copyright holders felt they needed a way to 'protect' themselves. So, they pay the gov't to make a new law that really ONLY protects the copyright holders.

    3. Re:Power to abuse? by richwmn · · Score: 5, Informative

      Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton, a British historian of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Used as the basis for Animal Farm by George Orwell

    4. Re:Power to abuse? by Starker_Kull · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, if you RTFA, the problem wasn't the DCMA (in this case - I hate the stupid thing), but the interpetation of it in the case ALS Scan v Remarq - as quoted;

      "However, in the recent case of ALS Scan, Inc. v. Remarq Communities, Inc., the court found that the copyright owner did not have to point out all of the infringing material, but only substantially all of the material. The relaxation of this specificity requirement shifts the burden of identifying the material to the service provider, raising the question of the extent to which a service provider must search through its system. OSP customers should note that this situation might encourage OSP's to err on the side of removing allegedly infringing material."

      The courts that interpet laws are as much of a problem as the Congress that passes them in the first place.

    5. Re:Power to abuse? by meringuoid · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Used as the basis for Animal Farm by George Orwell

      I'm not certain that's quite what happened. The Animalist Revolution was corrupted not by power per se but by Napoleon. Had the Revolution remained under Snowball's leadership it would probably have been rather more successful; however, Napoleon and Squealer (who were already complete stinkers) took every opportunity that came their way.

      It wasn't so much that power corrupted, as that power attracted the corrupt and gave them even greater scope within which to practise their corruption...

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    6. Re:Power to abuse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I prefer..

      "Power attracts the corruptible"

    7. Re:Power to abuse? by GeckoX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They may be 'in the right' (thepiratebay.org), but do you really feel that attitudes like that are going to make things better for us in the long run? Their responses are crass, rude, childish and feel like school yard mud flinging.

      I personally do not feel like attitudes like this will do anything but make things worse for us in the long run.

      I'm glad someone is standing up for our rights, but this is NOT going to sway popular opinion in a good way.

      Can we maybe find some examples of people that are fighting 'the good fight' and not just using this as an excuse to hide behind and be wee little children?

      --
      No Comment.
    8. Re:Power to abuse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And it is also proof that we as a society are circling the drain.

      I am an engineer, scientist and hacker at heart. and because of the DMCA and patent laws I am forced to be a criminal to continue to invent, engineer and think.

      when you make laws that overnight put a wide swath of the populace into the criminal segment then you know that the corruption that is leading towards complete opression is nearing completion.

      Personally I cant wait for all of you to look suprised when they mandate that every american is required to have a passport and use it for interstate travel. and I'm betting that it will be here before 2008.

      So I simply acknowlege that I must break laws to continue and therefore move myself into the underground. Release the information on webboards in free countries like the Former soviet union under a untraceable psyudonym.

      Thanks American Government! The past 8 years have taken all of the countries brightest and made them criminals of the state.

    9. Re:Power to abuse? by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Funny

      DMCA will collapse society, DRM'd Film at 11

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    10. Re:Power to abuse? by tylernt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you have a while to wait. Usually lots of people have to get killed before a revolution is born.

      --
      DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
    11. Re:Power to abuse? by tylernt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "passport and use it for interstate travel"

      At first I thought this was kind of stupid since the federal gevernment doesn't have that power. Then I remembered that the federal goverment has ruled that marijuana grown in California, sold in California, and consumed in California constitutes interstate commerce and can therefore be regulated or banned by the federal gov't.

      Yeah, we're screwed.

      --
      DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
    12. Re:Power to abuse? by Bullfish · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It always has been a legal system, where you legally try to get justice rather than taking the law into you own hands. Truth is, you are not entitled to justice, you are entitled to due process. It is one of the inherent difficulties if the courts are to be truly fair, they can only hear your case and render their best judgement. This is anywhere and not just in the US.

    13. Re:Power to abuse? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And P2P pirates really ONLY serves themselves, not "to promote the progress of science and useful arts". If we try to pretend that copyright is a balance between the creators and consumers of IP, there's not much doubt that neither side is playing very nice. The problem is that they are trying to give pirates the shaft, and instead end up giving the consumers the shaft. Not a very nice way to behave, and it makes pirated products stand out as vastly superior because mp3s are delivered in the format I want, aren't infected with rootkits and don't restrict my playing or burning to special apps I neither want nor need. Will giving consumers what they want lead to piracy? Yes. Will not giving consumers what they want lead to piracy? Moreso.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    14. Re:Power to abuse? by Prospero's+Grue · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Truth is, you are not entitled to justice, you are entitled to due process. It is one of the inherent difficulties if the courts are to be truly fair, they can only hear your case and render their best judgement. This is anywhere and not just in the US.

      The problem is (and the thrust of the article was) that the process is being subverted by the use of legal threats - many of which are unfounded.

      For all the cases that the RIAA has initiated, I don't know of a single one that actually was decided at trial (someone please correct me if I am in error). They are all settled because the law is being used as a club, and the strategy used by attorneys and their clients is to intimidate the target into submission by claiming huge damages, and offering to settle for a relative pittance. The uses of the DMCA follow a similar pattern.

      Numerous DMCA violations are sent to people overseas with no followthrough when they are refused compliance. It's looks like a fishing expedition.

      It becomes less an issue of due process and more a case of economic bullying, using the law as a tool to that end. If the parties allegedly hurt by DMCA violations feel that the acts are criminal, why are so few complaintants interested in pursuing the matter at trial and sending the offender to jail? They certainly can afford such justice, and it would be a strong example to use.

      Instead, over and over again, we see threats, borderline extortion, and a steady pattern of avoiding the courts and the kind of blind justice the application of due process should bring.

      So I'll say it again; a legal system, not a justice system.

      And BTW, I know this is not an issue unique to the USA. You'll note from my e-mail I'm from Canada.

      --
      The opinion above is fiction. Any similarity to real opinions, including facts and logic, is purely coincidental.
    15. Re:Power to abuse? by Braxton_the_Covenant · · Score: 2, Informative

      The economist Friedrich A. Hayek wrote a book entitled _The Road To Serfdom_, specifically written to the New Deal American public with the case examples of Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy in mind, describing how a generally civilized free society with some degree of free market capitalism can by its own ineluctable inner political workings become tyrannical socialist totalitarian states.

      Hayek has a chapter in his book called "Why the Worst Get on Top" that basically makes your point meringuoid, except that he says it is inevitable with a statist form of government that the very worst (i.e. most evil) will get on top while with a capitalist/laissez-faire system, unless it becomes co-opted by communistic or fascistic forces from within, there would never be the system of rewards and power present to make the job worthwhile for the evil-minded man.

    16. Re:Power to abuse? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And P2P pirates really ONLY serves themselves, not "to promote the progress of science and useful arts". If we try to pretend that copyright is a balance between the creators and consumers of IP, there's not much doubt that neither side is playing very nice.

      P2P "pirates" only think in terms of themselves, but Adam Smith would say that in doing so, the Invisible Hand generates progress. Everybody who downloads the latest GCC is doing it only for their own good, but the fact that GCC is free and widely used makes a lot more progress possible.

      To think you can draw a line between two halves of humanity -- "the creators and consumers of IP" -- is absurd. Nobody creates something new in a complete vacuum; everybody who creates is also a consumer. To mark a set of people as "consumers" and then try to limit what they can do, will necessarily limit what creators can do, which limits progress of science and the useful arts. You can't have one without the other.

      When I read your post, I was a consumer. When I typed a response, I was a creator. If nobody could read anything on the internet, would anybody write anything on the internet?

    17. Re:Power to abuse? by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hayek has a chapter in his book called "Why the Worst Get on Top" that basically makes your point meringuoid, except that he says it is inevitable with a statist form of government that the very worst (i.e. most evil) will get on top with a capitalist/laissez-faire system, unless it becomes co-opted by communistic or fascistic forces from within, there would never be the system of rewards and power present to make the job worthwhile for the evil-minded man.

      There is two problems with argument.

      First, it is inevitable that a laissez-faire system of any sort is taken over by someone wishing to establish a dictatorship. A laissez-faire system, by definition, means a system that is not overseen by anyone; it is simply a state of anarchy, and anarchy always ends with someone taking the reins of power - after all, there's people who want power and no one to stop them.

      Second, for a wicked man, the ability to do evil and make others suffer is in itself a reward. It is insufficient to consider only selfish evil - the willingness to harm others to benefit yourself - to understand human psyche. You also have to consider malicious evil, the willingness to do harm to others even when it doesn't benefit you in any way, and in extreme cases, even when it does you harm too.

      In short, no kind of system can possibly remove the reward for gaining power, since the one in power can make his own rewards, and some sick bastards get their kicks from the abuse of power itself rather than any benefit for themselfs gained from said abuse.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  2. I am SHOCKED by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Shocked and dismayed.

  3. A helpful guideline: by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Whenever a controversial law is proposed, and its supporters, when confronted with an egregious abuse it would permit, use a phrase along the lines of 'Perhaps in theory, but the law would never be applied in that way' - they're lying. They intend to use the law that way as early and as often as possible.

    cf: DMCA, Patriot Act, Prevention of Terrorism Act (UK), Enabling Act (Weimar Germany)...

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    1. Re:A helpful guideline: by Yahweh+Doesn't+Exist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      on the Prevention of Terrorism Act (UK), it is interesting to note that Tony Blair said it would never be used to prevent legitimate protesters. then, a matter of days later, it was used to eject a pensioner who objected to the war on Iraq from the Labour party conference. how the hell is a pensioner objecting to a war a terrorist?

    2. Re:A helpful guideline: by PhilHibbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Minor point, I think the act was used by the police to prevent him from re-entering. They just used regular bouncers to eject him.

      Sometimes the police deliberately push the envelope on what they consider to be bad laws in order to provoke reconsideration of the law. There's a possibility that this is one such example, by a policeman who doesn't like the totalitarian direction that we are taking. Not all police support the creation of a police state, it gives them more work to do for one thing.

    3. Re:A helpful guideline: by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Funny
      how the hell is a pensioner objecting to a war a terrorist?

      Bushian reasoning:

      1) This is the War On Terrorism.
      2) You are either for us or against us.
      3) If you are against us in the War On Terrorism, then that makes you
      4) A Terrorist.

      Blairian reasoning:

      1) I'm doing the Right Thing, because I'm a pretty straight kind of guy, ok?
      2) And I think Jack has the right to make his speech without impolite interruptions.
      3) And we really shouldn't get sidetracked by theoretical arguments about civil liberties, because terrorism is really a very serious threat.
      4) And I should point out that I had absolutely nothing to do with the incident itself.
      5) And I don't think that a blame culture is very productive at all, just ask Peter or David, so it really isn't helpful to go talking about whether anyone should resign.
      5) It's in the past now, so we should all move on and deal with the new problems that are ahead of us, going forward into a better and fairer Britain in the 21st century.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    4. Re:A helpful guideline: by FireFury03 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Minor point, I think the act was used by the police to prevent him from re-entering. They just used regular bouncers to eject him.

      You are correct - the bouncers ejected (read: assaulted) him and then the police "detained" him under the anti-terrorism laws.

      Then to add insult to injury, Blair still tried to push through a law that would allow the police to detain anyone for 90 days without charge, defending it by saying the police were very responsible and would never abuse a law.

      This is a prime example of why excessively broad laws are always a bad idea - whilest it may improve the ability to legitimately target people doing wrong it will always be abused by someone as well.

      Through all the IRA attacks whilest I was young the constant message delivered by the UK government was that if we changed the way we lived because of terrorism then the terrorists have won... well I guess we know who's won now then don't we? (Amazingly enough, Blair used the "if terrorism changes the way we live then they've won" speech in a justification of curtailing civil liberties in the name of anti-terrorism!)

    5. Re:A helpful guideline: by anopres · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've been following this story quite closely, and I've never heard anyone call Jack Murtha a terrorist. For some reason, people think that if a person served honorably in a prior war, that they know how to conduct the current one. I find it even stranger that we look to Vietnam war veterans for guidance, when you could easily make the argument that they knew how to loose that war, maybe they can help us loose this one. Jack Murtha is a stand-up guy. I think he is one of our better statesmen. On this issue, he is just wrong.

      --
      Strong Mad - 2008: "I PRESIDENT!"
    6. Re:A helpful guideline: by meringuoid · · Score: 4, Interesting
      (Amazingly enough, Blair used the "if terrorism changes the way we live then they've won" speech in a justification of curtailing civil liberties in the name of anti-terrorism!)

      That was funny, but the most entertaining piece of hypocrisy on this issue is this:

      On the 90-day internment law: Blair says that the police want to be able to imprison people without charge for three months for investigation and interrogation. He says that on this matter the police know best and we should listen to them and give them what they need to make us safe.

      On the late opening law for pubs: police representatives say that it will be a disaster and lead to even greater alcohol-fuelled public disorder and random violence. Blair completely ignores them and goes right ahead with changing the law so that (starting today) we British people are free to drink all night if we see fit to do so.

      I'm not sure quite how these two Mr Blairs manage to live together in the same skull. Libertarian and fascist in one. Or maybe he's hoping that we'll all be to pissed in the pub to get pissed at him...

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    7. Re:A helpful guideline: by ultranova · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not sure quite how these two Mr Blairs manage to live together in the same skull. Libertarian and fascist in one.

      I'm not so sure that there is a conflict between the two. Think about it. Fascists want to merge the corporations and the government into one single entity. Libertarians (at least based on their Slashdot posts) want to abolish government power completely, leaving corporations the only entities with any power - which, of course, will lead to them merging into cartels and ultimately a single entity.

      The end result of both is the same: a world ruled by corporations. Only the path taken there varies.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    8. Re:A helpful guideline: by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Spot on!

      But I think you missed point 5 for Bush:

      (5) Profit!!!

    9. Re:A helpful guideline: by gowen · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This government was elected with the active support of less than one person in five.
      Semantics. Attempting to count non-voters as votes against is utterly moronic.
      Denying it authority and legitimacy.
      You keep using those words. They don't mean what you think they mean. This government certainly does not have an absolute majority of support.

      However, it has both authority (a position of power; in possession of power over others. -- OED) and legitimacy (conformant to law or rule; sanctioned or authorized by law or right; lawful -- OED).

      You can criticise "First Past The Post" as much as you like, and I'll agree (I'm a Lib Dem supporter, so I'm obliged). But while that remains the electoral system mandated by British law, any government elected by that system has both authority and legitimacy.
      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
  4. Definition of occasional as used by DMCA enforcers by jurt1235 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    SARCASM ON: From the rules and regulations of the DMCA user group (Not publicly accessible, so this will cause a take down notice):
    Article 2b:
    Wrongful notices.
    An notice is considered wrongful if the party who send the notice is sued for this notice, and the highest court willing to hear the case decides that the notice has been send wrongful.
    Article 2c:
    Allowed wrongful notice percentage.
    If not more than 60% of the notices gets rejected by a court, the sending of these notices will be considered as an occasional mistake due to the murky nature of the person or company who got the notice initially. :SARCASM OFF

    --

    My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
  5. The DMCA is only a symptom. by Elrac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The real disease is the fact that the USA's elected lawmakers are, in many if not most cases, susceptible to pressure and/or bribery by the industry. This is how many of these asinine laws originated.

    Unlimited legal campaign contributions, indeed!

    --
    When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Rel
    1. Re:The DMCA is only a symptom. by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, because much of the money that gets given to candidates is given by either the minority of people, with lots of money, or by non-voting entities such as corporations. If each voting entity (person) was only allowed to give a small amount, maybe $5000, and non-voting entities (corporations) were not allowed to give money, then there would be a lot less corrupted things going on, since candidates would have to get a large number of people to give them money, instead of a few very rich people to give them money.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  6. Highly disturbing by sdo1 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Over 30% of DMCA takedown notices have been deemed improper and potentially illegal

    What I find most disturbing about that statement is that it implies that something a bit less than 70% of DMCA takedown notices are not improper and not illegal. That is a law that is far over-reaching, draconian, and designed for abuse. I guess that's what happens when one lives in the good 'old U.C.A (United Corporations of America).

    -S

    --
    --- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
    1. Re:Highly disturbing by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What I find most disturbing about that statement is that it implies that something a bit less than 70% of DMCA takedown notices are not improper and not illegal.

      Actually, that's a standard logical fallacy; it doesn't imply any such thing. Even if the 30% figure were accurate, it can only be a minimum estimate until the cases are settled in court. But most are settled out of court, mostly for financial reasons (the cost of an individual fighting a corporation), so their legal status can never be known. If you want to make an inference like this, you should read it as "at least 30% of takedown notices are invalid".

      But note that that 30% only applies to the specific sample studied, and it wasn't at all a scientifically-chosen random sample. The sample was what statisticians call "self selected", so as a statistic, the number is rather bogus.

      This isn't a criticism of the people who did the study. If you read TFA, you'll find that they didn't claim that 30% of DMCA notices are improper; they stated clearly that about 30% of the cases they studied were improper.

      So that 30% isn't a statistic; it's merely an example of the DMCA's effect on a small sample of people who are willing to go public with their story. TFA doesn't actually teach us much about the overall impact of the DMCA.

      But I suppose that's a bit too precise for a /. discussion. Radical over-generalization (along with reasoning from the inverse) does seem to be the order of the day hereabouts.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  7. The ESA vs HoTU by spyrochaete · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The ESA (Entertainment Software Association), a body representing many software companies, sent a threatening letter to Home of the Underdogs a few years ago, demanding that they cease the sale of all copyright materials from their website. They state to be standing behind the DMCA.

    IDSA is providing this letter of notification pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and 17 USC =A7 512 (c) to make you aware of material on your network or system that infringes the exclusive copyright rights of one or more IDSA members.
    ...
    IDSA has a good faith belief that the Internet site found at theunderdogs.org infringes the rights of one or more IDSA members by offering for illegal sale one or more unauthorized copies of one or more game products protected by copyright...


    Anyone who has seen this website knows that they do not sell games at all and never have. They provide abandonware downloads - games that have been out of print and not for sale for many years - in the interest of the preservation of culture.

    Just another example of clueless bullies hiding behind the DMCA, seemingly for financial gain, but for properties not even for sale! Read the full letter and the webmaster's commentary for full details. http://www.the-underdogs.org/partdeux.php

  8. Accused until proven innocent by saskboy · · Score: 3, Funny

    With the fall of the Canadian Liberal government coming on Monday, Canada will be safe from Bil C-60 the Copyright Act amendment until at least the early Spring. This gives our American oppressed neighbours time to find a job north of the 49th, and spend time backing up their "content protected" CD collection to hard drive, or iPod without fear of abuse from the local constabulary.

    --
    Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  9. Why is this surprising? by d3ac0n · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I mean, does anyone here really think that if a law puts that much power into the hands of an organized business cartel, that it's NOT going to be abused? Did anyone here NOT see this coming? Frankly, with a law as broad and Monopoly empowering as the DMCA, it was only a matter of time. And not a very long amount of time either.

    Now, keep in mind, this is coming from a registered N.Y. State Conservative Party member, who listens to Rush Limbaugh every day, and voted for W. TWICE.

    The amount of Individual Freedoms this law steals from people is abhorrent. It offends every Freedom loving, Patriotic bone in my body. Unfortunately, Most people don't see this as a priority. Like many of our laws, it's a "Creeping Freedom Stealer". Much like the old story of the frog in the frying pan, most people won't notice it taking thier Freedom until it's too late.

    --
    Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
  10. DMCA is a Good Thing by repruhsent · · Score: 4, Funny

    The DMCA really is a good thing.

    Congress passed the DMCA a long while back (a few years now, IIRC). It's obviously withstood the test of time; if there was something illegal about it, the Supreme Court would have already overturned it. So, I don't see where anyone can complain. Obviously the only people who have problems with it are the software/movie pirates, and piracy is bad, right?

    We should all just try to get along with the DMCA instead of constantly badmouthing it. It's obviously a valuable and appropriate used piece of legislation.

    1. Re:DMCA is a Good Thing by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I certainly agree. I mean, the RIAA and MPAA go through all that trouble and expense of drafting the legislation, making sure it is everything they wanted and more, and bribing^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcontributing to the campaigns and special luxuries of our esteemed and irreproachable congressbeings to get the DMCA passed through our pristine halls of legislation. So shouldn't they be allowed, nay expected, to use it as much as they wish? This is America, damnit! We believe in private property here, and if a man can't use his own bought and paid for law as much as he wants, well then we're just heading for Communism, forced gay sex, bestiality, witchcraft and Gigli 2.



      BTW, whatever robot modded parent down needs to have his humor circuit replaced.

    2. Re:DMCA is a Good Thing by Travelsonic · · Score: 2, Funny
      Congress passed the DMCA a long while back (a few years now, IIRC). It's obviously withstood the test of time; if there was something illegal about it, the Supreme Court would have already overturned it.

      Fallical (odds are that isn't a word, but whatever) reasoning... I know this is a bad example for copyright issues, but Jim Crow laws enforcing segregation were around for almost 100 years before it was ended, and there was a lot wrong with it... just because there is something wrong does not mean that something should have been done already to prove it wrong or illegal... it takes more than that, escpecially when corporations are in control of our laws..


      So, I don't see where anyone can complain.

      It's called reading the article (RTFA), and doing your own research to get the other side. I can think of many things wrong with it The law has been used to impede fair use, for one thing that might bnot have been mentioned here.


      Obviously the only people who have problems with it are the software/movie pirates, and piracy is bad, right?

      RIAA logic... fair and square consumers are also impacted by the DMCA, people who write software are also affected... so no, this fallicious reasoning does not hold up.


      We should all just try to get along with the DMCA instead of constantly badmouthing it. It's obviously a valuable and appropriate used piece of legislation.

      Troll. There is no other expination for this... the use of parroting RIAA arguments... and faulty logic.



      Oh wait, couldn't this post be satire? A parody of the **AA's logic? It does reek of sarcasm when looked at it that way... I am confused now.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
  11. Mountain and Molehill by mumblestheclown · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The DMCA certainly does have its problems, both in initial design and in abuse of it 'in the field.'

    However, let's put things in perspective. What is *really* the bigger problem right now - a few (even a few thousand), bad yes, abuses of the DMCA or the completely out of control wanton disregard for copyright law that exists in many internet corners? The defenders of P2P for LEGITIMATE use lose their credibility if they are not equally realistic and aggressive in condemning and thinking of ways to stop illegitimate use.

  12. Partisan tactics by headkase · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't get you US consumers. What can you do to resist? Slashdot is great for bitching and whining but other than awareness-of does little to correct the issues. I don't need to yet in my country (Canada) but you guys from my point-of-view need to engage in some armed insurrection. Not physical arms of course, somebody might get hurt. Instead how about organizing and really using the first box in the defense of liberty, the soap box?

    Here's the quote about boxes if I remember it right:
    There are four boxes to defend liberty with: the soap box, the jury box, the voter box and the ammo box. Use in that order.

    --
    Shh.
  13. Self Sustaining Argument by wellybog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This story just served to remind me how pointless it is to try and enforce law on the internet.

    Perhaps the various copyright enforcement agencies would do better if they changed themselves into education agencies.

    It doesn't take a genius to understand that piracy kills the product being pirated. Most people like the own the "genuine" article too though (so you make your money in the long run).

    Oh hell... this is a big old can of worms. They invent an anarchic network topology (the internet) that is self sustaining and deliberately uncontrollable - then they try to control it.

    How stupid is that.

  14. Re:I used to think Republican = Limited Government by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    George Washington was right when he told the American people to avoid a two party system at all costs.

    I am not an American, so this may not be accurate, but it is my understanding that Washington opposed the idea of political parties altogether - not just the situation that exists when you have only two. He believed that all candidates should stand on their own beliefs, not on a platform that is only a lose fit for their opinions but popular with a large, unthinking, group of the electorate.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  15. Chilling Effects by Misch · · Score: 4, Informative

    ChillingEffects.org keeps a library of submitted DMCA takedown notices.

    --

    --You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
  16. Vile Criminals by endoplasmicMessenger · · Score: 2, Funny

    I heard that someone actually had the audacity to put a small piece of tape on the outer edge of one of those DRM'ed Sony CD's to disable the copy protection. What brazen defiance of the DMCA! I'm waiting for the lauch of the ??AA's program of lawsuits to put such vile criminals behind bars where they belong!

    --
    Evolution is a fact. Darwinism is a joke.
  17. Where do I send the invoice? by NickFortune · · Score: 2, Funny
    Hey, if we're all that corrupt, where's all the baksheesh I've got coming?

    I demand my unfair share, right now or I'm going back to voting ethically and intelligently.

    --
    Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
  18. "the industry" by nurb432 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When it comes to the legal 'industry' they are IN it.. Not just being bribed.

    Thats the beauty of being an attorney, the more stupid laws like this, the more money to go around.

    And remember, you get paid even if you lose.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  19. No by Create+an+Account · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If a weak man foolishly walks into an alley in a bad part of town and gets mugged, he is foolish, true. But that does not remove the blame from the mugger.

    If a woman wears provocative clothing in a bad part of town late at night and gets raped, maybe she was foolish for attracting attention, but she is not to blame for the rape. The rapist is.

    If you leave your home unlocked and you get robbed, you will probably feel angry at yourself for leaving the house unlocked. The blame for the robbery, however, is purely the robber's.

    If the American electorate is overly susceptible to media influences, call them gullible. That does not make the shark-like actions of the corporations any more acceptable. Even using the metaphor of a shark (they shouldn't be blamed; it's in their nature) is a better reason to take precautions against them, not a worse one.

    If you're still reading this, I had a previous discussion on slashdot where we talked about some of this:

    http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=167485&cid =13964842

  20. Re:I hate the DMCA as much as anyone by Bruce_Nash · · Score: 2, Informative
    This issue is discussed in the report, (http://mylaw.usc.edu/documents/512Rep-ExecSum_out .pdf - PDF, http://mylaw.usc.edu/documents/512Rep/ - HTML).

    The data set falls into two halves -- self-reported takedown notices and takedown notices sent to Google. The Google part of the set is a complete record of all the notices they have received over the last 3 years or so.

    One would expect the self-reported notices to have a bias, but it turns out that Google notices shows the same proportion of flawed notices: 30%.

    Bruce

    (Full disclosure: my wife is one of the co-authors of the paper.)

  21. Don't atack the DMCA, attack the root by argoff · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Attacking the DMCA is like attacking the leaves of a vine, and not the root of it. No matter how hard you pluck off those leaves, they will always grow back in some other form untill you attack the root.

    The root of the problem here is societies own belief in copyrights. The DMCA is simply taking it to it's logical conclusion, along with the continuious extensions, and all the other abuses associated with copyright. People need to stop looking at copyrights as ever being a benefit, but rather as a burdon that was bearable 25 years ago when the biggest issue was copy machines and copyrights only lasted a few years. Not anymore. The burden copyrights require is too much to bear in the information age. Contrary to the hype, copyrights don't help many artists, and are anti free market. They are moral sewage that has robbed our culture and given it to hollywood, and they make it so that software companies who would otherwise strive to serve us - strive to controll us. The copyright system needs to die and take it's place on the trash heap of history.

    1. Re:Don't atack the DMCA, attack the root by argoff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But if you write or create something, then you, as the creator, have the right to determine how you want your work to be used.

      That's not true. People create things all the time that are used in way's they didn't intend to. Did the creator of TNT desire it to be used in killing millions? Did the creator of the phone intend for it to be used in stalking? Creators rights are not controll rights.

      Now, Does the creator have a right not to share this creation with the world if they don't want to, sure - it's called a privacy right. Do they have the right to two way binding agreements with people about how a creation is used, sure - it's called a contract right. Do they have recognition rights, sure - if I claimed I wrote somthing I didn't then that would be fraud. But I know of no right of creation. Besides, there is a creator bigger than you that gave information one set of characteristics, and physical property antoher - so in all fairness, who'se violating who'se terms now.

      ...I wholeheartedly disagree. They are tools, nothing more.

      That's outrageous. It's like saying slavery is a "tool" and nothing more. Bullshit, it's a form of unjust controll and nothing more. The same with copyrights, the right to controll how people use information at their disposal is not a tool or a right.

      The real root of the problem isn't the system, it's human nature. At the core, humans are selfish greedy creatures. If you don't believe me, visit a Christmas sale at a big department store sometime. People are using copyrights for selfish ends.

      If that is so, then you don't know what it means to be human. It is human nature to make our best interest to look out and work for the best interest of others, but sometimes that doesn't happen because we are finite, or we use our free choice to deny that nature. Copyrights reward people who harm society, a reward that is no longer bearable or tenable in the information age.

      Ironically, when you force people to let others use their works however they like, you are placing a restriction on the person who created the work, which is really just another form of control

      What are you talking about. I'm forcing noone to make a creation, I'm forcing noone to let me use their creation, rather they are spewing it everywhere and then when I make use of a copy they try to controll me and extract royalities. As far as I'm concerned, they can have their creation, in fact they already do - they have their original copy, and they haven't let me do anything with it.

  22. The Solution: Report the Attorneys! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Posting anonymously since I'm a third year law student currently looking for a job :)

    The solution to this is actually pretty straightforward; Report the attorney to their state bar association for a ethics breach. In sending out as takedown notice the signing attorney needs to sign the statement stating that there is a good faith belief that there is copyrighted content on the website. If it's patently obvious that there isn't such work then the signed statement is false. Realize that while attorneys represent their clients they are required to make a good faith effort to make sure that any statements they make to the court or on legal documents aren't false. Most likely one or two complaints won't do much, but a flood again an individual attorney might get them sanctioned.

  23. I think "they" got hold of the same list. by MarkusQ · · Score: 2, Funny

    There are four boxes to defend liberty with: the soap box, the jury box, the voter box and the ammo box. Use in that order.

    I think "they" got hold of the same list, and their response plan went something like this:

    • Soap box -- let's consolidate all the news outlets in the country under a few corporate trees. Then fire a few warning shots at any reporters who don't get the memo.
    • Jury box -- No prob. Push the right of appeals so that everything can go to the SCOTUS. No jury there, and we can pack it with corporate-friendly judges by distracting the sheeple with some made-up hot-button issue. What do you think, evolution? Or should we stick with abortion?
    • Ballot box -- Check with Steve on how that e-voting thing is coming along.
    • Ammo box -- Before we write this one off, is there any way we can get our margins on domestic arms sales up closer to what we make selling the big stuff over seas? I know we can shut 'em down with the Patriot stuff, but I just feel like we'd be walking away & leaving money on the table.

    -- MarkusQ

  24. "Safe Harbour" conflict with Anti-Spam/Virus! by lkcl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A service provider must satisfy the following critical elements in order to qualify for the "safe harbor" or protection from liability provided by subsection 512(a) (note that subsection 512(k)(1)(A) defines "service provider" as used in subsection 512(a)):

      (e) The service provider must not modify the communication selected by the Internet user [512(a)(5)];

    so, if you "modify" the email to put "X-Spam" tags in it, you no longer qualify for the "safe harbor" provisions.

    in fact, if you put ANY headers with the message, then the communication is "modified".

  25. DMCA victim by romka1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I fall in those 30% for sure, the hosting companies when recieving DMCA notice will not bother to validate it and will not bother to hear a counter argument in your defence, its easier for them just to unplug your server, even though the law states that they have to allow for a site owner to defend against the take down notice.

    Especialy if the content of the site is somewhat questionable and the company issuing the take down notice is big (like microsucks)

    --
    Visit my site @ http://www.madtorrent.com
  26. He he he... by RecycledElectrons · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've never seen an apropriate DMCA notice, but in the 2004 election, I took out every web site that belonged to a Texas politicianin the other party - one week before the election. I'll do it again in 2006. I plan to take them out 2 months before the election, and file suits to stop them from coming back up.

    Life is good, politicians are helpless, and lawyers are too slow to do anything.

    God bless Texas!

    Andy Out!

  27. A New Kind of Moderate by Pfhorrest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The view that I take on this is what you might call "Populist Libertarianism".

    On the traditional political-spectrum chart as taught in political science classes, you have two axis - one of economic freedom and one of interpersonal freedom. Turning the chart on its corner, the "left" is liberalism, high interpersonal and low economic freedom, culminating in a purely socialist direct democracy; on the "right" is conservativism, high economic freedom and low interpersonal freedom, culminating in a purely capitalist complete dictatorship. This is the normal left/right spectrum we usually hear about, and both extreme ends of it have obvious problems with them.

    On the "top" is libertarianism, more of all freedoms (as nobody can tell anybody else what do do), culminating in anarchy; on the "bottom" is populism, less of all freedoms (as everybody has some control over what other people do), culminating in tyranny.

    When I speak of "Populist Libertarian" I'm basically saying "moderate", but in a way most people don't think of it. People think of moderates in terms of the left/right schism but completely ignore that while we're maintaining some equilibrium between the left and the right, we're sliding gradually toward tyranny on both sides. Tyrannical liberalism becomes Stalin's communism, and tyrannical conservatism becomes Mussolini's fascism. The libertarians have a good point that we need to move away from such tyranny, but as you point out if you go too far in that direction you wind up in anarchy, which has just as many problems of an entirely different sort.

    The solution I envision is a system which acknowledges that factions and groups will exist, and allows them to exist, and allows them to form larger groups of groups, and so on and so forth, but applies to every group or meta-group the exact same set of standards as are applied to individual people. The same rules that properly govern interaction between groups of people should apply equally well to groups of groups, and so on. The same kind of standards which apply to a parent running a household should apply to a president running a country, and vice versa. If they don't, there's a problem somewhere in there - either you're governing your household or your country wrong.

    As for what exactly those common rules are, I believe in what are more or less the libertarian interpersonal ideals (you can do whatever you want, except do unto others what they don't want) with semi-socialist economic ideals - basically free-market capitalism overlaid with a 50% redistribution of wealth within the group, i.e. half of what anybody brings in is divided up evenly amongst the group. The specific way I encapsulate this is with two pairs of freedoms/responsibilities:

    - the freedom of liberty (to do what you want) and the responsibility to respect the liberty of others

    - the freedom of security (not to be done unto as you don't want) and the responsibility to respect the security of others.

    - the freedom of public property (you can do what you want with anything that's not owned by someone else) and the responsibility to respect public property (not to depreciate its value, which also encompasses environmentalism)

    - the freedom of private property (you can control the things you create or acquire) and the responsibility to respect private property (i.e. no theft or vandalism).

    The first and third of these are the usual emphasis of liberals, while the second and fourth are the usual emphasis of conservatives. I think they're all equally important.

    As to who actually enforces these laws, i.e. who "the government" is, each group has a directly elected triad of leaders, each tasked with a different area of responsibility. The Councillor's job is to oversee the internal working of this group, applying the rules to interactions between the people (or sub-groups, if this is a meta-group) within this group. The Governor's job is to oversee the interaction between this groups and other groups of the same level and act as a

    --
    -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
    "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
  28. Not illegal until the 1997 NET Act by MacDork · · Score: 2, Insightful
    What you call "out of control wanton disregard for copyright law" was not a criminal act in the United States until the 1997 NET Act. File sharing has been happening since the beginnings of the internet. Does alt.binaries.* ring any bells for ya?

    Don't try to paint it as something new enabled by P2P. What IS new is the idea that sharing files without making a profit is the domain of hardened criminals. What you are witnessing is the same thing lawmakers witnessed during prohibition. Copyright law has been transformed into complete and utter bullshit and everyone knows it. These are just the same law abiding people doing the same things they always have. As much as you might like to paint a different picture, most people who download music are not the same people who casually shoplift. The law is wrong. Obviously it needs to be repealed. Read all about it:

    On December 16, 1997, President Clinton signed HR 2265 -- the 'No Electronic Theft' Act -- into law. The act, sponsored by Representative Goodlatte (R-Virginia), was passed in the House on 11/4/97 and in the Senate on 11/13/97.

    HR 2265 was viewed as "closing a loophole" in the criminal law. Under the old statutory scheme, people who intentionally distributed copied software over the Internet did not face criminal penalties if they did not profit from their actions.

    The act was strongly backed by the software and entertainment industries but opposed by science and academic groups.

    Fuck you very much President Clinton AND both houses of Congress for going with the monied interests instead of the intellectuals when dealing with "Intellectual Property" laws.

    The defenders of P2P for LEGITIMATE use lose their credibility if they are not equally realistic and aggressive in condemning and thinking of ways to stop illegitimate use.

    No they don't. They have issues with the DMCA and the NET Act and your definition of legitimate, along with the majority of America. "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." Obviously, we don't consent. When teenagers are being dragged into court on criminal charges for sharing songs, when Girl Scouts have a list of songs that are illegal sing around the campfire, and when I cannot legally sing Happy Birthday to my niece at McDonald's, something is terribly wrong with the law. It's time our lawmakers got tough on the corporate criminals stealing our culture from the public domain.