Macedonia Deploys 5,000 Ubuntu Desktops in Schools

vladoboss writes "The latest GNOME Journal is running a story about the deployment of 5000 Ubuntu desktops in public schools. The Republic of Macedonia is a small country in Southern Europe with a population of around 2 million. Internet penetration is only around 5% and software piracy rate is rampant. Also, the government does not play any major role in the development of the ICT (Information and Communication Technologies) and a private sector is dominated by Microsoft technologies. Given the circumstances, one would not expect any free software related stories to make the headlines. Yet the presence of a small volunteer organization by the name Free Software Macedonia is making a big difference in this small country."

Comments

Office Apps

[fembots]

The friendly article didn't say it, but I assumed these schools will be using OO.o, not MS Office on WINE?

This is a strong movement because children tend to come back home and fiddle with home PCs (like installing games/trojans), so it's now more likely that more Macedonian homes will be running Linux too.

What I am not sure is the career future of these children of the future. Will they be better off in their career now that they are primed with OpenSource ideas, will they become the valuable elites in "knowledge-based exports" market, or will they be forced to re-learn MS once they enter workfoce?

Re:Office Apps

[rolfwind]

Unless you are programming or "forced" to deal with the command line (not likely), I don't see much major relearing going on moving from Linux to MS or the other way around when it comes to office apps (OO to MSOffice or the other way around) - it's mostly point and click with similiar interfaces. Also learning to use the web (since they have low internet penetration), which is pretty much the same experience for any GUI system.

Sometimes there is more relearning between versions of an App than there is between two different apps that serve the same purpose.

The other thing I imagine they can use is educational software - I should check the article if they deployed Ubuntu or Edubuntu.

I wonder if the free educational software in the OS world could provide schools lots of savings?

Re:Office Apps

[Pantero Blanco]

Huh? The only time I had to go to a CLI in an Ubuntu installation was once when the computer had some oddball hardware. Nine times (or more) out of ten, Ubuntu installs and runs without a hitch.

Re:Office Apps

[lpcustom]

I fear that these Macedonian kids are going to grow up with higher intellects than people who post on slashdot explaining what a GUI is and using terms like "root editor". Who knows, these kids may actually grow up to be "highly skilled technicians". It's a lot better than dumbed down power users with no idea what they are talking about.
I mean seriously, American children should have more of this. Challenge them. I sound like my dad but kids these days spend more time BS'ing about what they don't know instead of actually learning it. I feel sorry for my country. We put so much effort into convincing our kids how great our country is and how smart they are for being able to turn on a computer. We should be teaching them skills that will enable them to compete in the world. I say good for Macedonian.

Re:Office Apps

[nkrgovic]

Well they can learn how to flameware with Greeks on the net about the name of the country and learn how to avoid getting shot by Serbs by playing Quake.

Hate to dissapoint you, but Macedonia (FYROM is the officialname, ask the Greeks why) seceded from what is now Serbia and Montenegro peacefully. We are still in good relations, and no side ever fired a single non-FPS shot on each other :). I do think we pwn them in Enemy Territory tough :).

They are, unfortunately, being killed, constantly, but by Albanian separatists. They were promissed help by the U.S. , but since they have no oil they got nothing. Most of Macedonians still live in fear of Albanian terorists, who rampage, kill people, raid vilages and bomb cities allmost every few days.

The only ones the U.S. helped there are the Albanians. Islamic extremist and terorists are allways welcome in Europe, by the U.S., especially when they have drugs money to pay for CIA instructors.

Re:Office Apps

[dwillden]

I was stationed with the US Army in your beautiful little country in 2001 when the NLA tried to spread the Kosovo Fighting into Macedonia. Unlike most troops there I had a job that allowed and even required me to travel around your country extensively rather than remaining stuck on Camp Able Sentry or limited to the supply route to Kosovo

The US did not then and has not since supported any Albanian terrorists or even seperatists who were operating, or who even wanted to operate in Macedonia. We really haven't even supported those so inclined who live and operate in Kosovo, since we entered into Kosvo, if anything most of our effort is spent protecting Serbs from harassment and discrimination. We supported the Lawfully elected Macedonian Government (though we did encourage a few reformations to reduce the discrimination the Albanian minority thought it was suffereing, sometimes truthfully sometimes not.)

The funniest thing about that entire Insurgency/Civil War/Call it what you will, is that the entire time the NLA was certain that any day we were going to start helping them either actively with troops, or with weapons or supplies. But we never did. The US always supported the government, mostly with monetary aid.

Your accusation at the end of your post is unfounded and uncalled for. Although not really unexpected. Most the time we were there we were constantly being asked if the US still hated the Serbs. Which of course we the US never did, we just hated what some of them had been doing to Kosovars, and what they had done to non-Serbian Bosnians and Croats.

As to supporting Macedonians, we've had troops in Macedonia since it declared independance and asked for UN Peacekeepers to keep Serbia from trying anything like it did when other states broke off from Yugoslavia. We joined that mission and supported it until the Kosovo War. We transitioned our base to be the rear support base for our main force in Kosovo. We remained there until a couple years ago when we moved those support personnel up to Pristina in Kosovo.

Since the day The Republic of Macedonia (I heartily disagree with the politcally correct FYROM) declared independence, the US has supported the it and it's lawfully elected Government, and thus the majority of the people. We have supported your troops and police. We poured tons of money into your economy, and we definatly did not help the NLA or any follow-on groups.

Oh and as to the original article, yea Piracy is big there, I myself brought home a few disks with software and music on them. Hey, they were cheap and it poured some money into the economy. Oh, and on a non-piracy note, my wife really likes the custom tailored tux I got there that I wore on our wedding day. $100 (US) for a hand tailored Tux, awsome for a really skinny guy like me who has trouble finding clothes that fit.

In Full Battle Array

[3Suns]

All right! only 2000 more to go before we have...

Seven Thousand Macedonian Linux Desktops in Full Battle Array!

Copyrights, copyrights, copyrights...

[HermanAB]

Due to pressure by large countries to honour patents and copyrights, poor countries are all switching to free software. The strict enforcement of copyrights is the best thing that can ever happen to the Free Software movement and to the poor, it is a godsend.

Re:Copyrights, copyrights, copyrights...

[bogie]

The other best thing is software DRM/activation.

I hope with Vista that there is no Corporate version and that all businesses and consumer had to pay full price and activate immediately upon install. Make Windows and Office impossible to pirate and watch OSS use sky rocket.

Mutual Exclusion?

[Pantero Blanco]

How exactly do you have such a high software piracy rate when only 5% of the people have Internet? Yeah, I know people can copy things at home and hand them out or sell them, but it seems like that couldn't spread things fast enough to come close to the rate in other countries.

Re:Mutual Exclusion?

[FinchWorld]

Simple. Local markets. They sell them there, the police don't bother with them for the most part, its pretty much the same as markets in china, all the software you could ever want for a few pennies (or cents).

Re:Mutual Exclusion?

[dwillden]

Actually it's even better than that. The local police requested that the US and other NATO bases report when ever a CD dealer would set up shop in his car outside the gate of a base. Why? Because the guy selling out of his car at the base entrance wasn't paying taxes on his profits.

Whereas we could go into any of the CD shops in town and get the same disks for just a few cents more. Or we could even go onto the NATO Base where there was a CD shop and again pay that same cheap rate. With the exchange rate in 2001 it cost $2.50 per disk and thats how everything was sold, on a per disk basis. A CD with hundreds of MP3's or a direct bootleg of a just released Album, or a copy of the latest version of MS Office or any other software you wanted was just $2.50.

And as to bringing said bootleg CD's home, all Customs cared was that you were not bringing multiple copies of the same product back to try to sell.

Re:The Article

[MrApples]

I also question whether that what gets installed is also that what gets used by the pupils or schools later on. Once their infrastructure is getting better, people start to experiment (even pupils at home). That's how we all learned about Linux and I doubt that the 468 schools and some 182 computer labs continue staying with GNOME once they find themselves trap into many problems that they can not solve. I think from the 5000 Desktops that are planned - only half of them will remain with GNOME (in best). The other half will continue piracing Windows or switch to something else.

I found Linux because of experimentation yes, but I was only experimenting because of my disgust with Windows. My thought is that if these kids are introduced to Linux before they become acustomed to Windows, they will be much less inclined to switch to Windows after experiencing the (subjective) benefits of Linux.
As for finding themselves trapped in problems, I do not agree. I have done my fair share of deploying Ubuntu for inexperienced Linux users, and it has always turned out well. I feel that both Gnome as a desktop environment and Ubuntu as a distribution are easily mature enough for this scenario.

I hope them the best in their endeavor, and that others follow suit.

Re:The Article

[ndansmith]

Yes, but there are also aspects of KDE which are harmful to education. For instance, konstantly kspelling keverything kwith "K" kannot kbe kood kfor kyoung kstudents.

Well, kubuntu then?

[Crouty]

Two points I's like to address: First, freedom is more important than free beer (or Metaxa or wha'ever). Not falling for Microsoft's lock-in offers is a step in the right direction.

Second, Gnome/KDE, it does not really make that much of a difference. ubuntu, kubuntu, both look nice, can run browsers, office software, software development software and definately a heck more than they would have if they were to use licensed payware.

FSM did a great job

[Karaman]

Free Software is a winner once more. Alas, not everywhere. I live in a neighboring country, Bulgaria, and it looks like our last government made a life-contract with MS for our schools and state administration. Corruption, you will ask, yes, a contractor which is in close relation to the government supplied all the MS products and there was no public auction for this contract. The MS products were even bought at higher than normal prices. And one more thing: There are computers in the state administration somewhere in smaller towns, that can only run DOS, but they still have bought MS WINXP for these PCs. And the contract being for life means as long as MS suppllies products our children will be forced to use Windows at school and call themselves computer-skilled. For me it is the worst nightmare. Go go go, Free Software Macedonia! I wish you more success!

Only 5% are online?

[Milton Waddams]

How does the other 95% get their porn!?!?

Re:Not KDE

[jonasj]

You ask why they would put KDE on Ubuntu instead of using Kubuntu? Uh, Kubuntu *is* just Ubuntu with KDE put on it. You can do apt-get install kubuntu-desktop on a Ubuntu box.

Kubuntu is just the name of the Ubuntu install cd that installs KDE instead of Gnome by default.

So the parent post was right in saying that "that setup is always just a few mouse clicks away".

Don't you F.Y.R.O.M. me

[SamoVasGledamo]

Follow the link to the macedonian FOSS site and look closely at the yellow box in the upper left corner, then click on it and read.

F.Y.R.O.M. is the name that the European Commission kindly asks us all to use, because of a spat with Greece over what the term "Macedonia" actually refers to. The Greeks claim that Macedonia is in fact a region spanning parts of Greece, "the F.Y.R.O.M" and Bulgaria, IIRC. The Macedonian people refer to their country as "Macedonia", just as Americans refer to the country they live in as "America", despite the fact that the term encompasses vast areas clearly beyond the borders of the U.S.A.

It is of course, no factual error to call the country F.Y.R.O.M. But you probably don't go around saying that Lhasa is in China, do you?

Re:Office Apps (warning: rant, rave, and scream)

[d.valued]

Something to keep in mind about the Balkans:

They are - and have been - and probably will be - a political and religious powderkeg.

Greeks in particular have a few things to be pissed about. The religious leader of their faith is in a different country because of how the lines were redrawn post-WWI. Hundreds of thousands were massacred in Asia Minor during the '20s by the Turks, but no one there will admit to it. (And yes, I know, they didn't get the worst of it. It was still brutal.)

In 1452, they (and the rest of the Orthodox world) lost their highest cathedral to the Ottomans, who desecrated parts of Hagia Sophia and turned it into a mosque. (Think of it as though St Peter's were conquered by Iran.) Now it's used solely as a tourist site.

The name of Macedonia was assigned to the former southern province of communist Yugoslavia in 1952 by Tito.

There's no historic basis for the name; the region of Macedonia whence Philip and Alexander came from was much further south.

Yes, at the time, there was no concept of Hellenic unity; that developed mainly after the Latin conquest of Constantinople in 1204, which put the final nail in the coffin of unity between Rome and Constantinople. However, there was this understanding that they spoke the same tongue, they learned the same thought (pop quiz: who taught Alexander?), they spread the same ideas and believed in the same faith as everyone else on the peninsula now known as Greece.

The Balkans as a whole are rife with religious and ethnic hates going back centuries. The Catholics hate the Orthodox, and both hate the Muslims. The Croatians and Albanians and Serbians are at each others' throats, the Greeks hate the Albanians for taking part of their country, the Turks for the same reason as well as the historical stuff, and everybody hate the Roma (gypsies).

The only thing that kept a lid on Yugoslavia's ethnic groups, well, was the iron fist of Tito.

Math

[KlaymenDK]

2.000.000 population, 5% internet penetration, 5.000 Ubuntu desktops -- instant 5% market share if you look at it one way.

No wonder this makes headlines.