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Tulane University to Reduce Engineering School
baldbobbo writes "According to University President Scott Cowen of Tulane University, the School of Engineering will be greatly reduced. I have to wonder, as a student who can graduate in May 2007 (the deadline for those students to still receive a degree in any of the cut majors) with a Computer Science degree, but wants to stay an extra year, should I transfer to another university, graduate on time, or switch majors?"
Why would you want to stay an extra year without a degree? If you want to take non-required classes, just take them after you get the degree.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
You talk to your student advisors? That's what you pay your tuition for. How the hell would a bunch of random people on Slashdot know what you should do in some strange particular circumstances that we couldn't possibly know the details of since we aren't on the staff for your school?
The aggravation of switching schools is far too great. Many of your credits may not transfer and, as experience tells me, the relationships you have built with your professors thus far will work wonders in the senior year and beyond when it comes to those pesky deadlines and loads of work!
Why say in a program that's going to be cut? The reputation (past and future) of your degree reflect on you. It would be advantageous to matriculate into a program that's going to remain strong for the foreseeable future.
It would seem that you're not committed to Computer Science, since you're willing to switch majors. That said, if Tulane is cutting that program, it seems they don't consider it to be an area "where it has attained, or has the potential to achieve, world-class excellence." Assuming you don't have a strong preference as to your major, why not pick something that Tulane does consider world-class?
If you have an engineering bent, I would think that civil engineers are going to be in hot demand there for quite some time. Seriously.
Now Slashdot is an academic advising website?
Who are your professors? You're worried about graduating, they're worried about getting (or keeping) tenured positions. Who will be around to teach your final classes?
This shouldn't be your primary consideration, but it needs to be on the table.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
according to this chart, the only engineering remaining is chemical and biomedical. everything else (Civil and Environmental Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, Computer Engineering) gets cut. That's an extremely dramatic cut.
My suggestion is to leave ship. Sure you could stick it out, but with the program being eliminated, there's little incentive for faculty to stay (they'll all be looking for jobs elsewhere), and less incentive for the school to spend money on student support (computers, etc.). End result is that you'll likely have a lot of classes taught by part-time folks who are being recruited at the last minute when every untenured junior faculty doesn't show up for spring semester (because they've also abandoning ship).
Not so much cluing in to the problem as surrendering to the inevitability that we can't compete with the rest of the world in the field?
If you want more school, go for a Master's degree. It's only 30 more hours. Why take another year undergrad, when you can get another degree for about the same number of hours?
~100 faculty laid off from the Medical School downtown. ~50 faculty laid off from the main uptown campus, nearly all from Engineering. Cut programs: Civil, Mechanical, Electrical, Computer, and Computer Science. Remaining: Biomedical (which was, in fact, our strongest), and Chemical.
Also, previously there were the School of Liberal Arts and Sciences, and the School of Engineering. Now it's going to the the School of Liberal Arts, and the School of Science and Engineering.
Leaves me wondering where exactly I stand, having a recent degree in a program that no longer exists. I'm more worried about the kids who were planning to go back next semester in one of these programs, and only find out today that it doesn't exist!
As a Tulane CS grad -- I think they're faking it. Tulane's CS program at least has always suckled at the teet of Netscape and Yahoo due to former students, like David Filo, being at the helm. This seems like yet another scheme to just pull money -- which honestly, they could use at this point -- out of their corporate sponsors.
Get the hell out of there as soon as you can. If they are cutting the program, the professors will be more worried about finding a new position than actually teaching. There aren't enough openings out there for a whole engineering department that is about to get cut.
Who did what now?
Why is this inevitable? We have the best post-secondary eduction. The most resources to throw at engineering projects. The biggest market for those projects. IMHO, also the most creative and solidly reliable engineers.
Sure other countries (China, India) have *more* engineers. But I firmly believe that quality beats quantity. And as those engineers get better, well, they're going to come to the U.S. for a competitive salary. And then, guess what - they are on "our team."
Actually, Tulane is cutting a ton of programs because of the hurricane and the fact that they spent nearly all of their reserves repairing to be able to open next year.
Back when I was doing failure analysis of power station parts my job was made very easy by a list of easily avoidable mishaps that had happened in US power stations. I could look at almost any problem that came up and then find a well documented US example where it was ignored until it caused a complete shutdown of a plant - even problems that are trivial to fix in the early stages and easily identified YEARS before the become a serious problem. Homer Simpson may not be able to spot problems, but he's cheaper in the short term.
Wow, this must be a fairly recent decision. I received an admission letter for the undergrad EE program less than a month ago. Guess this solves my dilemma over whether to attend Tulane or not post Katrina...
A couple of things.
First of all, once you've had your first job, no one really gives a crap where you went to school. They care about what quality of work you did at your last job. They care that you *did* go to school. That's about it.
Second... someone talked about the 'reputation' of your school. No one cares. Tulane is a name-recognition school, and in most parts of the country no one will even know that it no longer has a CS program. They'll either recognize the school name or not. Did you know that UC Irvine has a great CS program? Or DeAnza College? I thought not. No one knows (or really cares mostly).
What you should be worried about is what kind of education you're going to get in the next two years... because that's what's going to determine how you do at those first few jobs.
Talk to your faculty advisors. Talk to the faculty. Find out which of them are staying and which of them are going to jump ship. It's reasonably likely that all the good CS staff will jump ship, since there's no longer going to be a career path at the school for them. No department = no research = no publishing = no career. That's what you should worry about -- losing all the good teachers.
If the teachers are going, you should go. If they're sticking around until you're gonna graduate, stick around with them (assuming you like the place and the program).
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
This is slashdot, we don't bump, we grind.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
I really appreciate the feedback...very nice to hear from active engineerings (thus the reason for posting in the first place). I've tried contacting my advisor, but he's a little busy finding a job, so please cut down on knocking on the mod's. They understand at least. Second, you have to understand that New Orleans has been my home my whole life. The most time I've spent away from it was the time here at Mizzou (and I was forced here because of my parents, not because of its "outstanding" CS program) and Field Training for Air Force ROTC (which just happened to end about 4 days prior to Katrina's wrath upon my house that I stayed in during the storm). The last time I've spent a full week in the city was before July 24th. I was put through the equivalent of officer's boot camp then a hurricane, then spending thanksgiving and over 3 months away from my main computer (I've been using my OLD laptop with Debian since), most of my clothes (been wearing donated rags), my family, and all of my friends (I didn't know anyone in Missouri). Again, thanks for the feedback. It will really help in making a decision about my future. I really want to stay home, but if it means having to make up so much work (especially since I've accumulated a lot of hours in CS, and very little humanities or anything else), I'll have to do a few 20hr semesters just to catch up to a sophomore, much less a junior. (For those who asked, my minor is history...I was going to try to make it a second major, thus the extra year). For the third time, thanks.
-Bob
Disclaimer: I have a BSc. EE
In my experience, the engineering degree puts you above people with CS in the interview process early in your career. The core bits are crossed over, such as algorithms and discrete math. It is likely an engineering grad, especially an EE, will have taken more advanced mathematics courses than a CS grad - or at least, the default path through is much more math intensive.
Maybe I am wrong, but that is my experience. Exceptional people always stand out no matter what their majors, but you need to get to the point where you have that opportunity.
Another key point: It is very easy for a EE with a strong C++ or SQL background to apply for a develoepr job on high level systems. (Communications programming, DBA). It is very difficult for a CS person to apply for hardware engineering, firmware engineering, or control system positions.
..don't panic
well... you probably gotta go there at least for next semmester. My sister graduated from Tulane and my Brother goes (sort of) there now. He's transfered to Claremont McKenna College for the semmester but they won't let him stay another semmester since it's such a small school. No other colleges are taking any transfer requests from Tulane students until next year so his options are take a semmester off and figure out something to do later OR go back to New Orleans and LIVE ON A CRUISE SHIP for the semmester. That's not as fun as it sounds. His room would be about 5 X 5 and he'd have to take a shuttle to school everyday. How bogus is it that his choice is to live in on a cruise ship for a semmester in a town thats virtually deserted or live at home (WITH ME! (i'm only 15 - 16 in 5 days)) for half a year while all his friends are back at college. Most of the kids that went to Tulane and transferred to new schools are allowed to stay there for next semmester because they're big schools and they don't care any better. I know this doesnt have anything to do with anything, but if my brother lives at home for a semmester he'll do stuff like take our car everywhere (I was supposed to get it when he went back to college) and eat all my hot-pockets. I'M ANGRY - I WANT MY HOT POCKETS FOR ME! NOT FOR HIM.
I can imagine that the stress that precipitated it was extraordinary.
Are you referring to hurricane Katrina?! If you think this is based on market forces and faulty prognostication you're nuts. They are fighting for survival. This link says that 86% of students will be back when the school reopens next January, which is more than they could have hoped for. Naturally they've suffered damage to facilities, lost students and faculty, and can expect lower enrollment for years to come.
Do you really think they used "activity based planning" instead of damage control mode to decide they had to close five undergraduate programs?
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx