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New 360 Backwards Compatibility

Posted by Zonk on from the you've-got-to-test-these-things dept.

Gamespot is reporting that a new update to the 360's backwards compatibility has been issued ... and just as promptly recalled. From the article: "Late last night, Microsoft updated the backwards-compatibility list with eight games from the trio of Tom Clancy-inspired series. Software emulators for Ghost Recon, Ghost Recon 2, Ghost Recon 2 Summit Strike, Rainbow Six 3, Rainbow Six 3 Black Arrow, Splinter Cell, Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow, and Splinter Cell Chaos Theory all became available for download. However, within hours of the new update's release, reports began to circulate that it was causing problems with Halo 2. "

34 of 43 comments (clear)

  1. Before you hit reply... by CMiYC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    .... let's not have 100 childish "what a surprise from Microsoft!" comments.

    1. Re:Before you hit reply... by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Funny

      ".... let's not have 100 childish "what a surprise from Microsoft!" comments."

      The rest of you that are dead set on making a joke containing the words "Clippy", "crash", or "BSOD", press Alt+F4 to skip the 20 second minimum.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Before you hit reply... by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      Yes, don't start modding "redundant" until after the first 99.

  2. Backwards Compatibility by skwirlmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I knew they were doing soft emulation, but I thought it was modular. I'm a little surprised that they only have one peice of software which does all emulation. I presumed they would code different backends for all the popular titles. Guess it would be more work, but less headaches in the long run.

    Not sure where I got these ideas from, but that is what I thought.

    --
    My inner self is ineffable, so don't eff with me.
    1. Re:Backwards Compatibility by Tyger · · Score: 1

      I imagine you get the ideas from common sense idea of how it would be implemented.

      If I were designing it, I would have a base emulation library, then plugins for specific games.

      Then again it may just be an issue of making the emulation more accurate. The more accurate they make it the more games get supported.

  3. Welcome... by Gogo0 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    ...to the next-gen, where not only is hardware not ready for launch, but the software isnt either

    Next thing, you'll be downloading patches for your new xbox2 games before theyre even released. I suppose that since they have moved away from off-the-shelf PC components, they can make it more PC-like in other ways.

    1. Re:Welcome... by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Spoken like someone who has never tried their hand at emulation. Creating emulators with 100% compatability isn't easy, even when you have the schematics yourself. They had to have been able to update the software somehow, or else they would have had to scrap backwards compatability...unless they figured out a (probably very costly) way of putting the old architecture in the new system somehow.

      There was no easy solution for backwards compatability with an architecture as complex as the Xbox's. Good thing it's Microsoft, because then you can bitch about them no matter what avenue they take.

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
    2. Re:Welcome... by Gogo0 · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with it being Microsoft, it has to do with the product having at least a six-month lead on all other competitors, and then releasing with supply issues, hardware issues, and tons of games that dont work yet.

      If they werent so intent on releasing so early, they could have cleared up all of these issues and released a solid product in stead of one that if you are lucky to find, has a good chance of being faulty, and if not then it wont play but less than half the library of games you purchased last gen.

    3. Re:Welcome... by sehryan · · Score: 1

      No, but there is something called "testing." You see, with all of the resources and experience that Microsoft has, don't you think they should have the good sense to go back and check to make sure everything else was working before issuing an update?

      And more importantly, as someone else said above us, if they are going to claim backwards compatibility with Xbox games, then it should be 100% backwards compatible now, not a little bit now, little bit more in a couple of weeks (oops! sorry, that broke something, back to where we were). If you weren't a "geek," you would want it to just work. and you would be justified in being upset when it didn't.

      --
      The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
  4. Re:Show of hands... by JFMulder · · Score: 2, Informative

    I did see it coming. Not because it's Microsoft. Doing an emulator for something like the SNES is hard. Imagine an Xbox. It's not surprising this happened, it was bound to happen, earlier or later.

  5. XBox prices... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I'm more interested in seeing the price of the retail XBox drop. That kind of backward compatibility is what you know is going to work for all XBox titles.

    1. Re:XBox prices... by inu_maru · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It sort of dropped today. In Japan.
      I got to pay 1000 yen less, as it seems that most retailers (asobit, bic camera) are selling it at 38,800 something yen.

      Also, dead or alive 3 is working, even tough it's not listed in the japanese site. Not really amazed, but in makes me wonder why they haven't released that info yet.

      About the quality of the emu... ninja gaiden black gets slugish pretty often... even if no enemy is on sight. Bleh...

      --
      Mu
  6. And weeee taaaaake.... by th3space · · Score: 1

    One step forward and two steps back.[/sing]

    Fabulous job, guys. Sony may be more greedy (I refuse to label it as something so intangible as 'evil'), but at least when they say 'backwards compatible', they mean it. I like that I can still play my copies of Final Fantasy Tactics, or Gran Turismo, or Bushido Blade without having to modify anything at all. It is a fairly sweet deal, indeed.

    --
    "How like you to drag your keyboard to a gun fight." - Aaron Bedard (BANE)
    1. Re:And weeee taaaaake.... by Blue_Nile · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, really? So how are those slimline Ps2's working? Article

      --
      Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
    2. Re:And weeee taaaaake.... by Saige · · Score: 1

      Sony also had the option of including the PS1 as a chip in the PS2. For various reasons, that was not an option for the 360.

      I think they deserve credit for doing what was considered by many (including, apparently, many of the Xbox team) to be an impossible task - get Xbox games emulated successfully and with proper speed on a 360.

      --
      "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
    3. Re:And weeee taaaaake.... by Rallion · · Score: 1

      Well, as the most compatibility-problem-laden verson of the PS2, it's doing a hell of a lot better than any XBox 360, isn't it?

    4. Re:And weeee taaaaake.... by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1

      The slimline PS2 is incompatible with (a few) games written for the PS2. That's pretty weak. ;)

      Compatability-wise, I don't know if it's any better or worse than the standard PS2 unit.

  7. Fixed Update Available by Saige · · Score: 1

    They've already added a new update that both adds the compatibility for the new games, along with avoids the Halo 2 issue. All is good now.

    --
    "You know your god is man-made when he hates all the same people you do."
  8. Re:Show of hands... by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1
    Yes, that was my point. But I guess I came off as an anti-Microsoft flamer. Oh well. :)

    --
    Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
  9. It doesn't matter that it came from Microsoft. by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1
    Emulating the XBox is not a trivial task. I was surprised when Microsoft said they were going to do it and I'm actually impressed that it works as good as it does. And I'm sure it will get better.

    But it will never be 100% and, even if the only title that it doesn't run only sold 50 units, people are going to bitch...

    --
    Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
    1. Re:It doesn't matter that it came from Microsoft. by damsa · · Score: 1

      You are giving MS too much credit, they did purchase Connectix, a company who also made a Playstation emulator for the Mac. Although that tech was sold to Sony. It's not like MS made the emulator from scratch.

    2. Re:It doesn't matter that it came from Microsoft. by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1
      Woo-hoo. I'm called a Microsoft basher and a MS fanboy in the same topic! It's slashdot bingo. What do I win?

      --
      Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
    3. Re:It doesn't matter that it came from Microsoft. by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1
      It doesn't matter to the end user if it comes from Redmond or some programmers in China, I give them credit for hiring people who know what they are doing.

      I still think Microsoft was crazy to try this in the first place, but I'm not a marketing guy so what do I know?

      --
      Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
  10. Re:Show of hands... by supabeast! · · Score: 1

    "Doing an emulator for something like the SNES is hard"

    They aren't using emulation - XBox 360 owners get to download new game binaries coded for the 360 because Microsoft knew emulation would be a bad way to go.

  11. Re:Show of hands... by iotashan · · Score: 1

    Uh, yeah... So I guess none of you see the connection (no pun intended) between Microsoft buying the best x86 > PPC emulator on the market from Connetix, and Microsoft using some magical emulation to make x86 based Xbox games run on the PPC based 360.

    --
    Behold the glorious bragging rights
  12. Re:Show of hands... by Rallion · · Score: 1

    They aren't using emulation - XBox 360 owners get to download new game binaries coded for the 360 because Microsoft knew emulation would be a bad way to go.

    If this were true, this problem would never have been able to happen.

  13. Re:Just Forget About 360 'Backwards Compatibility' by drewmca · · Score: 1

    Is this based on your personal experience with the 200 games currently on the list? Or are you confusing "what I think" with "what is"?

  14. *moan moan moan* by Phudman · · Score: 1

    I wonder how many people that complain about the 360 emulation have actually used any other emulators before, especially newly released ones? Most of the time they are slow, glitchy, and lots of games don't work yet. It usually takes the authors years to get near perfect emulation up and running. On each release some games will work better, and some may get worse. It's really the nature of the beast. To this day there still isn't a completly perfect NES emulator, that should tell you something.

    1. Re:*moan moan moan* by barc0001 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wonder how many people that complain about the 360 emulation have actually used any other emulators before, especially newly released ones?

      No. It's this simple. If Microsoft puts on the box "backwards compatible", it god damn well better be backwards compatible. Not 40% backwards compatible, not 80%, defintely not 80% this week, 73% the next, and a month later 82% backwards compatible.

      It usually takes the authors years to get near perfect emulation up and running.

      The difference, is this is something people have paid hundreds of dollars for, not some freeware hobby emulator that Bob works on 2 hours a week in his spare time.

      Consoles are supposed to be black-boxed commodities for the average consumer, not beta tests that geeks will just "understand" if there are rough/jagged edges and need a bunch of tweaks and patches.

      Bottom line: If you can do it, do it. If you can't, don't claim you can as a selling point for your box and spend the next six months trying to patch it.

    2. Re:*moan moan moan* by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 1
      No. It's this simple. If Microsoft puts on the box "backwards compatible", it god damn well better be backwards compatible. Not 40% backwards compatible, not 80%, defintely not 80% this week, 73% the next, and a month later 82% backwards compatible.

      The first run of PS2's had numerous issues with various PS1 games. Nintendo's Gameboy Advance SP broke Kirby's Tilt and Tumble, so not even the Game Boy Advance has a spotless track record.

      But hey, double standards rock.

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
    3. Re:*moan moan moan* by daveruiz · · Score: 1

      What he means is that if like 12 games are backwards compatible, that actually run well, and the rest are not, then a company does not have the right to start putting stickers and advertising that their system is backwards compatible. When you hit 90%+ compatability then at least you have more of a right to claim it.

      Simply put, it is just a marketing scam. It's Microsofts way of saying, "Oh ya, Sony and Nintendo can do it, look, so can we, just not as well, but still, buy our machine cause you can kinda play the games you liked, and later we might decide to patch it, until we realize it is costing us too much, then we will stop and you will be stuck with our machine cause we promised you could play old games, but not anymore"

    4. Re:*moan moan moan* by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 1
      No, he was VERY clear with his wording.

      No. It's this simple. If Microsoft puts on the box "backwards compatible", it god damn well better be backwards compatible. Not 40% backwards compatible, not 80%, defintely not 80% this week, 73% the next, and a month later 82% backwards compatible.

      Read that again. He compared a percentage of games being backwards compatable to plain 'backwards compatable'

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
  15. Re:Just Forget About 360 'Backwards Compatibility' by Jarlsberg · · Score: 1
    It was, and always will be, a unwanted marketing gimmick by Microsoft. First of all, there is no such thing as 'backward compatibility' - the few games that actually do run are essentially quick and dirty ports to the 360. Second, Microsoft seems to be using the incredibly low standard of basically being able to run for claiming a game is supported.
    You don't have a clue what you're talking about. When a game is on the list of supported titles, they work as well on the 360 as on the Xbox, and in quite a few cases, they are better for it. Halo 2 is much nicer on the 360 than on the original Xbox (the problem that was introduced with the update mentioned in the blurb has now been fixed, according to Gamespot).
    Nothing is ported, so there's no "quick and dirty" ports being made.
  16. Re:Show of hands... by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

    "Doing an emulator for something like the SNES is hard."

    I imagine it's a lot easier if you have access to the schematics, information on any and all lock-outs, and access to the sourcecode for just about every game ever published for the system.