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Google, Jabber, and Jingle
An anonymous reader writes "Jabber has published the experimental draft Jingle specs, which extend XMPP for use in voice over IP (VoIP), video, and other peer-to-peer multimedia sessions.
Google released an open-source library called 'Libjingle' on SourceForge. Libjingle is a set of components provided by Google that let your programs interoperate with Google Talk's peer-to-peer and voice calling capabilities. The package includes source code for Google's implementation of Jingle and Jingle-Audio."
I'm not fat, just big boned...
This is some sort of christmas joke, right?
I have the only w33n0r I think I need to see when logging on.
Now if google would just implement server-to-server jabber connections, this might be useful!
Let's hope someone can now develop a Gtalk pocketpc application with voice. While they are at it: add conference mode to Gtalk; in business environments it's very handy.
Good for you! Meanwhile, for the rest of us who aren't paranoid/Google-bashers, this is a boon, including Jabber users (you know, this will work for your Jabber server too, right? ;)
Besides, Google hasn't implemented Server-to-Server communication yet for reasons posted elseware in this very article; they don't want spam. It's harder to validate posts coming from offserver without actually reading them, which would breech your privacy, right? (On server they have the option of reading it [via EULA], post rate limiting, banning accounts, etc)
So please, next time Google (or $BIG_COMPANY) gives the open source world a donation and a piece of code it's been needing for a while now, take it as a gift, and try not to be so critical about it. Thanks.
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
Of all the people to have a broken link... Did anyone else try the "Home Page" link on the SF project description?
There's an old saying that says pretty much whatever you want it to.
One should allways be cynical atleast.. and examine the thing and reasons critically.. but if the thing is good accept with thanks.
I better lock the door before my pointy haired boss comes in: "This looks interesting. I want VoIP before you can go home for Christmas."
Insert `fortune -o` here
last time i checked they didn't have a voip client for linux either. you can use jabber'over'gaim to use gtalk itself but you're unable to make the calls. let's hope this library makes it possible.
...)
until then, i stay with the hype-skype which works rather well (if you don't mind the cpu and network overheads
I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
All these instant messagers and voice applications could somehow communicate so would not need to have so many on my computer. Even if the communication was on lowest common denominator, could use the ones I like and atleast communicate somehow with people using others.. oh well.. not likely to happen soon I guess.
Using transcoded XML for binary audio support... I wonder if some bandwidth is wasted just because of the format (XML can't contain random binary data, so there's bit loss). Anyone checked deeper?
Could be "I want VoIP before you go home today."
In other news, a manager at a local business was brutally murdered yesterday by one of the software engineers working under him. The enraged developer showed no remorse, and his only comment was "VoIP sux0rz!" More at 11.
...their system where the advertisers call you? It's safe to assume they'll be adopting the platform and munging it with some sort of phone connection to achieve this. This could be just the step they're looking for to lower costs and make more profit. And on top of that, how many other messengers have an open voice protocol? How long before we see extensions etc? And how long before some wisespark tries that Skypecasting thing with it? Since jabber can technically support any mime type, all we would need is for someone to plug theora into it and instantly it can be done.
~HTP~ Hug that tux
One should allways be cynical atleast.. and examine the thing and reasons critically.. but if the thing is good accept with thanks
I didn't say not to be critical at all, I said "try not to be so critical". Secondly, how could releasing your code and giving a donation be a bad thing? If the code was terrible, it'd simply get dropped and not used.
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
well it can't be ANY 8-bit data, since what if a sequence matches the CDATA closing tag (which is just 3 chars, so the probability is not very low).
Also I think XML is limited to only readable chars. It's getting extra weird if the XML is using Unicode format, which may assign multiple bytes per character.
And it's already working in Psi, awesome.
Psi, one of the most popular Jabber clients out there has announced that they are working on support for jingle. http://psi-im.org/forum/post/24491
...where 2 comments saying exactly the same thing have +5 and -1 respectively.
I don't buy this. Spam in Jabber is much more difficult to achieve (some people say it's impossible but they're probably wrong) and Jabber without server to server is not fully Jabber.
Sadly not ... you have to base64-encode your binary data. I have to do this to get ICC profiles embedded within an XML image file format header :-(
So please, next time Google (or $BIG_COMPANY) gives the open source world a donation and a piece of code it's been needing for a while now, take it as a gift, and try not to be so critical about it. Thanks.
I wonder if you'd be saying the same thing (LET ALONE getting modded up to +5 Insightful, for that matter) if that $BIG_COMPANY was Microsoft instead of Google. Don't get me wrong--I hate Microsoft with a passion, and I am NOT trying to support them here. I'm merely trying to point out the obvious hypocrisy of people here on Slashdot, and how it seems like no matter what Google does, Google can do no wrong as far as Slashdotties are concerned, whereas if it were MICROSOFT that did something like this, you can bet people here would be viewing such a move with great suspicion and cynicism, to say the least.
In the end, the ONLY question that matters is: is Google doing a good job of meeting users' needs with their technology? Google Talk is a GREAT product, but one simply CANNOT debate the fact that it remains to be seen if Google Talk can truly topple any of the Big 3 IM systems (AIM, MSN Messenger, or Yahoo), which are already well established and well entrenched.
Sure, it's all very well to say "oh, but Google Talk is wonderful, because it's based on OPEN SOURCE and OPEN STANDARDS, JUST LIKE EMAIL IS!!!" Try telling that to your non-geek friends. Personally, I am finding it VERY difficult to try to convince all my friends to communicate with me using Google Talk as opposed to anything else, using arguments like "Oh, but Google Talk is based on the open XMPP protocol, unlike what you're using!" Trust me, arguments like that generally do not win the hearts and minds of the average person. Generally, the average user only cares about practical things like: Is it easy to use? Can I talk to MY friends and people I know with it? Does it support features I care about, like Voice, or using Webcams?
I don't see this as a good thing. There are already too many signalling protocols for voip. Another protocol just makes everything more messy.
The parent post is not Funny (even if it tries to be), but it's really INFORMATIVE!!!!
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I would like to know who told you spam was difficult in Jabber.
If anything, it's easier, since you don't have to go through all the trouble of hooking up to a network with no public specs.
Still IMing in the stone age?
... and call their sweet new product Gibber.
There was talk of google potentially buying AOL.. If this happened, they could migrate the existing AIM/ICQ networks over to a jabber based protocol, while maintaining the existing protocol for compatibility..
They could retain gtalk as it is too, and allow server to server jabber communication between both their servers and external jabber services..
AIM already has a large userbase, and with such ease of communication between services it may be large enough to convince yahoo/msn to co-operate too.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
FOSDEM 2005 Jabber Developers' Room
IM clients are the obviousplace to strapon VOIP communication. The jabber system would be a perfect VOIP framework. Your "number" will simply be your JabberID. Which is similar to an email address, so it's easy to remember.
You'll simply dial something like "malda@slashdot.org" to complain to Taco about the preponderance of dupes, and Taco can simply add your address "slashbot@cheapisp.com" to his ignore list.
If telemarketers become a problem, some kind of del.ico.us system might enable VOIP users to share a list of banned domains or addresses. Potential for abuse etc, etc.
Key point here is that a system based on "email" like addresses would be batter and easier to remember than the current telecoms number based system.
May the Maths Be with you!
The main Gaim developer was hired by Google and given the low-down on the Jingle project some time ago, and it'll be added to the Gaim-vv system that's apparently coming in Gaim 2.0.
Google should implement server-to-server but drop any incoming messages from users that are not on the recieving user's roster. This way people can still talk to their friends on other Jabber servers but unsolicited messages won't be a problem since they'll be dropped outright.
This may cause difficulties for agents that aren't people, such as services and bots, but at least it would open things up a little for person-to-person communication.
So does this mean we can drop the already dead H.323 protocol and replace it with Jingle in Asterisk?
Let's not forget that Google want to make a decent profit. But companies have different ways to make a profit.
For instance, some manufacturers take the attitude of building in a short lifespan because then they can get another sale soon after. Others take the view of making a less than reliable product and making a lot of money on spare parts. Others use various means to ensure that any upgrades/consumables for the products will cost a great deal. And a few decide that the best way to trade is to make a great value product because even though you don't get a good short term hit, you build customer loyalty and word-of-mouth. Financially speaking, there's probably no right answer to make money.
They couldn't have come up with something better than libjingle?
What about libjingoober?
Or better yet, just a library without that jingle crap called libgoober?
~ ><>
Link to video? Transcript?
On server they have the option of reading it [via EULA], post rate limiting, banning accounts, etc
If they can get themselves the option of reading your outgoing messages with an EULA, they can of course do the same for incoming messages.
Now that's very interesting.... they could do a "behind the scenes" converstion of AIM screen names and ICQ number to be Jabber ID's.... @aim.com and @icq.com. It should be able to be done in such a way that somebody who used Jabber wouldn't need Trillian or even an AIM screen name/password of their own to talk to somebody on one of those two networks. That would certainly make it really hard for Microsoft or Yahoo! to ignore. ICQ and Google Talk combined probably don't have half the number of users of MSN messenger, but the simple fact that there was network collaberation would force Microsoft at least to put their money where their mouth is (early on in the MSN messenger project, they said they wanted s2s interoperability). If that happened, it'd only leave Yahoo! out in the cold and I don't see them trying to make it on their own when all the other services let you talk to other users.
Sorry if this seems incoherant.... I typed as the thoughts were in my head and sometimes that can be a scary place.
Life has many choices. Eternity has two. What's yours?
About a month ago I looked high and low for an open source, multiplatform VoIP solution for our company's LAN. I found a few great jabber servers, but much to my surprise/dismay, I couldn't find any clients that supported voice, only text IM.
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Google, Jaber, Jingle. You can hear my sleigh bells ring. I am 'ol Kris Kringle. I'm the king of jing-le-ing!
Hopefully the Asterisk devs will implement this and quick. I'm dying for something like MS Live Communications Server (with the Office Communicator) that works with Asterisk.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Seriously...
I just only allow people on my friend or buddy list to IM me on all my acounts (google, MSN, Yahoo, and AIM). I've never ever gotten spam of any kind.
The fact that they're releasing the spec and an open-source library should mean that once your Jabber client has Jingle support you can chat with anyone on any server that will peer with yours. Now, granted, that doesn't include their server, but that's their loss; you could just go to some other random server that would allow it.
Yeah, server-to-server would be cool, but we already have server-to-server and it works as long as it stays small enough that the spammers don't notice. Google wants to make this thing huge, and if they do, spammers will notice.
Well the Issue is Yahoo and MSN have already announced that they would be makking interoprability between each other soon. So if one of them crosses over the other one will too.
However if the whole IM world comes together they would have to conform on features or u could not use some features with others. I mean things like smileys and animated messages (audibles in yahoo, other things in other clients)
That would still make people stick to other clients.
If it comes to any client signing onto any network..Imagine signing onto gtalk with a Y! client.
That would certainly be the day
Add this line to your /etc/apt/sources.list: ./
e 0_0.1.0-1_i386.debe -dev_0.1.0-1_i386.deb
deb http://lumumba.uhasselt.be/takis/breezy
Or fetch the individual packages:
http://lumumba.uhasselt.be/~takis/breezy/libjingl
http://lumumba.uhasselt.be/~takis/breezy/libjingl
which one is it?
I'm kind of partial to "Texas Flood," but "Couldn't Stand the Weather" is a good'un too. Heck, they all are!